Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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Agreed.

At 92% difficulty and aggression settings it takes a skilled driver to win in half an hour starting from the rear of a 24-car grid... according to my experiments. That leaves 8% headroom to cover your gradual improvement.

GT OTOH, well, I've always had to handicap myself with tyres 1 or 2 tiers lower in performance in order to have a competitive race.
 
I disagree. The small team behind Assetto Corsa came up with an AI that was both great in terms of speed and situational awareness. I couldn’t keep up on the highest difficulty settings, but Gran Turismo’s AI is not even a challenge for me. Just other cars in my way.
The team behind the original Automobilista was also able to create extremely competitive ai, as well with great situational awareness and realistic driver errors.

Their team only has 24 employees currently, and I'm assuming they had an even smaller crew back during the development of AMS 1.

Examples from my own gameplay:



If I remember correctly, the AI skill level slider was at 105 out of 115, and was able to qualify 4th giving it as much as I had. The only way I was even able to get to that point in pace, was me needing to make a setup both for qualifying and in the race. Its as close as you can get to real competition in an offline space, or without being at a LAN event. It's incredible. The AI even make realistic mistakes, and there are also full-course cautions with a pace car and pit cycle. It's incredible, imagine if GT had anything even close to this.
 
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The reason why other online options was removed is probably quite simple in my opinion. If people are racing in lobbies or shuffle races etc etc, they are not racing in FIA events or Sports mode. I believe it was a deliberate choice because they wanted the maximum number of people in the new stuff, that was the priority.
 
I disagree. The small team behind Assetto Corsa came up with an AI that was both great in terms of speed and situational awareness. I couldn’t keep up on the highest difficulty settings, but Gran Turismo’s AI is not even a challenge for me. Just other cars in my way.

Then either you're not that good or the AI is cheating somehow. You should at the very least best able to hold position with the same equipment.
 
Then either you're not that good or the AI is cheating somehow. You should at the very least best able to hold position with the same equipment.
Then I’m not that good. Precisely, and hence my disagreement with your post. I’ve played racing games for 30 years, so my room for further skill development is probably limited by now.
 
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Then either you're not that good or the AI is cheating somehow. You should at the very least best able to hold position with the same equipment.
So if something is quicker than you then it must be cheating?

That's honestly the argument you just used?

All that nonsense does is illustrate you have seriously limited exposure to some of the better AI that is around!

Then again it's another 'hot take' from you that misses the point utterly, good AI is not about just pace. You could make GTS' AI the fastest thing around (without cheating) and it would still be poor AI to race against. Then again, this has been explained to you before when you insisted that Machine Learning was going to make GT's AI amazing (when it wasn't).
 
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I've managed to find and hear the leaked version of Bring Me The Horizon's Moon Over The Castle, on an Asian music streaming service, after looking for it all day :D

I don't think I would be allowed to share it here, right? Since it's not meant to be out yet...

It's pretty heavy, very industrial, and features heavy usage of breakbeat elements (like the Prodigy or the Chemical Brothers). It has some EDM elements too. It's more electronic than rock, really, the main thing that connects it to the old versions of Moon Over The Castle is the lead guitar melody. Sometimes it's played by a synthesizer, sometimes by a real guitar. It has a quite heavy breakdown near the end.

If it's real, that is. But it does sound like something Bring Me The Horizon would make and it did (somehow) make it's way onto a real streaming service website.
 
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I've managed to find and hear the leaked version of Bring Me The Horizon's Moon Over The Castle, on an Asian music streaming service, after looking for it all day :D

I don't think I would be allowed to share it here, right? Since it's not meant to be out yet...

It's pretty heavy, very industrial, and features heavy usage of breakbeat elements (like the Prodigy or the Chemical Brothers). It has some EDM elements too. It's more electronic than rock, really, the main thing that connects it to the old versions of Moon Over The Castle is the lead guitar melody. Sometimes it's played by a synthesizer, sometimes by a real guitar. It has a quite heavy breakdown near the end.

If it's real, that is. But it does sound like something Bring Me The Horizon would make and it did (somehow) make it's way onto a real streaming service website.
Good to note: BMTH are signed to RCA, which is a label owned by Sony Entertainment. Kinda like lots of previous artists featured in past GT games.
 
The team behind the original Automobilista was also able to create extremely competitive ai, as well with great situational awareness and realistic driver errors.

Their team only has 24 employees currently, and I'm assuming they had an even smaller crew back during the development of AMS 1.

Examples from my own gameplay:



If I remember correctly, the AI skill level slider was at 105 out of 115, and was able to qualify 4th giving it as much as I had. The only way I was even able to get to that point in pace, was me needing to make a setup both for qualifying and in the race. Its as close as you can get to real competition in an offline space, or without being at a LAN event. It's incredible. The AI even make realistic mistakes, and there are also full-course cautions with a pace car and pit cycle. It's incredible, imagine if GT had anything even close to this.

This guy's race against F1 AI in GT Sport is pretty comparable and he's even cheating with his super soft tires.

 
I've managed to find and hear the leaked version of Bring Me The Horizon's Moon Over The Castle, on an Asian music streaming service, after looking for it all day :D

I don't think I would be allowed to share it here, right? Since it's not meant to be out yet...

It's pretty heavy, very industrial, and features heavy usage of breakbeat elements (like the Prodigy or the Chemical Brothers). It has some EDM elements too. It's more electronic than rock, really, the main thing that connects it to the old versions of Moon Over The Castle is the lead guitar melody. Sometimes it's played by a synthesizer, sometimes by a real guitar. It has a quite heavy breakdown near the end.

If it's real, that is. But it does sound like something Bring Me The Horizon would make and it did (somehow) make it's way onto a real streaming service website.
Is that streaming service called JOOX or Sanook?

EDIT: NVM it's called JOOX. Thanks to a VPN I'm able to listen to it in Germany.

It's a fresh, new take on MOTC. Not bad!
 
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- I think Fanatec users (at the very least) will be able to map buttons and dials on their rims. The fact that the new Fanatec GT7 rim allows for SEPERATE on the fly adjustments for BB, TCS, Fuel and Diff settings shows that the coding for this WAS ALREADY IN GTS.
I don't think the dials will be mappable (edit: in GT games) as they're colour coded just like on the T-GT, which has had separate on the fly adjustments since GT Sport came out. So that would make it a yes for the coding of separate inputs being already in the game. ;)

C9OubJbXoAQzNJH.jpg
 
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This guy's race against F1 AI in GT Sport is pretty comparable and he's even cheating with his super soft tires.


Mate he's leading after 3 laps when starting from last in equal cars, and only one other AI was on the lead lap by the time he crossed the line.

It's not comparable, if anything it gives more proof the AI in GT need work.
 
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I’m hoping when you select no ghosting during online play, there is actually no ghosting. I understand wanting to make sure races are clean but come on if you select no ghosting it shouldn’t be ghosting!
 
Did PD give us a explanation how the OST will be able to be used? Can we play Borderlands while listening to the GT7 music in the background or is this just a music app and we won't be able to do anything else but listen to the music when the app is open instead of being in the background?
Assuming it will be a download token thing for the FLAC /MP3 files. I also imagine it will be the OST type songs only, not the licensed music.

If they included a CD that would be amazing, but probably anachronistic/needlessly expensive to produce.

Then either you're not that good or the AI is cheating somehow. You should at the very least best able to hold position with the same equipment.
That is such a crap (and emphatically incorrect) take. Have you tried playing ACC etc on the highest difficulty? Good luck!
 
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Then either you're not that good or the AI is cheating somehow. You should at the very least best able to hold position with the same equipment.

At what point do you simply realize how moronic you sound in desperately thrashing to defend Polyphony when they have continually not bothered to update the AI from the laughable state it is in? How pathetic it is that small developer studios, who have nowhere near the resources that Polyphony does, are able to create good racing AI that doesn't serve as rolling chicanes, while Polyphony simply ignores it, and people on this forum seriously suggest that machine learning AI can make that aspect of racing better?

Something's gotta give here. Though I doubt you have the ability to hand it to the people criticizing GT for the laughable AI, because you are working real hard to ignore it and try to make it seem like the people who are doing the criticizing are bad at the game, which is an absolute joke.
 
Mate he's leading after 3 laps when starting from last in equal cars, and only one other AI was on the lead lap by the time he crossed the line.

It's not comparable, if anything it gives more proof the AI in GT need work.

I'm talking about their behavior not their pace. They fight and overtake him a couple of times. SS tires are obviously going to be faster than the medium or hard the AI have.
 
I'm talking about their behavior not their pace. They fight and overtake him a couple of times. SS tires are obviously going to be faster than the medium or hard the AI have.
What good is their behaviour if you pass them so quick? Very cool, the AI overtook someone! What do you mean they're a lap and a half behind, that doesn't matter, they're fighting!

You're only fooling yourself.
 
Assuming it

Assuming it will be a download token thing for the FLAC /MP3 files. I also imagine it will be the OST type songs only, not the licensed music.

If they included a CD that would be amazing, but probably anachronistic/needlessly expensive to produce.
For those who own the 25th Anniversary Digital Deluxe Edition, I'm sure there's a PS4 app (can be used on both PS4 and PS5) which features the soundtrack of the game. Other than that, it will likely work similar to WipEout Omega Collection's digital art book, and can't be used in other games.

Oh, and be careful about double-posting.
 
It's not even remotely comparable, they make no attempt to defend position from the player.

It's widely agreed that GTs AI needs a lot of work, and the group that don't agree?

Almost exclusively sycophantic.
GT never ever had good AI. It's been plaguing the series since its first installment. I even am pretty sure that there are PS1 titles that put GT Sport's AI to shame.
 
It's not even remotely comparable.

It's widely agreed that GTs AI needs a lot of work, and the group that don't agree?

Almost exclusively sycophantic.

In terms of pace, no. But in the original video posted the AI never overtakes the player. The pace difference can be explained by the tire choice.
It's not even remotely comparable, they make no attempt to defend position from the player.

It's widely agreed that GTs AI needs a lot of work, and the group that don't agree?

Almost exclusively sycophantic.
Not true. At 2:35 the AI defends the inside line. The AI could stand to be improved I think mainly by offering a difficulty option for career mode but they are not the brain dead trash folks like to imply they are.
 
At 2:35 the AI defends the inside line. The AI could stand to be improved I think mainly by offering a difficulty option for career mode but they are not the brain dead trash folks like to imply they are.

They are, and even if they offered a difficulty slider, it's incredibly likely knowing Polyphony that they would simply increase the speed of the AI and make it 'hard' that way instead of spending any time in making an AI that has some sort of fight.
 
I've managed to find and hear the leaked version of Bring Me The Horizon's Moon Over The Castle, on an Asian music streaming service, after looking for it all day :D

I don't think I would be allowed to share it here, right? Since it's not meant to be out yet...

It's pretty heavy, very industrial, and features heavy usage of breakbeat elements (like the Prodigy or the Chemical Brothers). It has some EDM elements too. It's more electronic than rock, really, the main thing that connects it to the old versions of Moon Over The Castle is the lead guitar melody. Sometimes it's played by a synthesizer, sometimes by a real guitar. It has a quite heavy breakdown near the end.

If it's real, that is. But it does sound like something Bring Me The Horizon would make and it did (somehow) make it's way onto a real streaming service website.
Yeah, I've just heard it, too.

Ehhhhhhhhh... good for the racing BGM, but it's a little weak to be the opening movie theme. The main chorus riff is not even in.

Mm, yeah, I don't think it's the opening theme, given how low-key it is. Likely another version of MOtC will be it or Daiki Kasho, instead.

Someone make a separate topic for the soundtrack, please. I think it's time.
 
In terms of pace, no. But in the original video posted the AI never overtakes the player. The pace difference can be explained by the tire choice.
I'm not talking about pace, I've been quite clear on that.
Not true. At 2:35 the AI defends the inside line. The AI could stand to be improved I think mainly by offering a difficulty option for career mode but they are not the brain dead trash folks like to imply they are.
Do the fact that you need to get to 2:35 not tell you the two are not comparable? Go back and watch the AMS video, take note of when they first defend (12 seconds) and how often they defend.
 
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I'm not talking about pace, I've been quite clear on that.

Do the fact that you need to get to 2:35 not tell you the two are not comparable? Go back and watch the AMS video, take note of when they first defend and how often they defend.
In the AMS video what I saw was that they had so much pace they didn't need to defend they followed the racing line and the red car he was following he only passed because it inexplicably flew off the track. If I missed a good defensive move give me a time stamp so I can see it.
 
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My honest thoughts on GT Sport's AI (if it will be anything similar in GT7), would be that in the Arcade Modes, I usually set them to Professional difficulty without any boost, perhaps their best form so far to say the least. I always put myself in dead last (from a standing start) so at least I have a challenge to overtake them all in as quickly as possible.

When you start from dead last, and if the race is at a standing start, it feels like you have to carefully anticipate their movements as you make your way from the back of the pack, so that you don't crash into them, or get run off the road. They do have a bit of stalling and/or brake-checking behaviors, and they seem to be using their indicators too. At least that's their sense of aggression, and sometimes they'll clip in between your car if need be.

(On Blue Moon Bay, when I grind using the Porsche 911 GT3 RS, I can feel the LaFerrari or Bugatti Veyron behind me breathing down my neck, and trying to ram me.)

I tried a three-lap Nurburgring Gr. 3 race using the Audi R8 LMS and this is how I observed it: they're only quite competitive during the start of the race, but anything later than that, they get so far behind that they can't even keep up. Once you're completely in front and have no one to take care of, you can start doing significantly faster laps as anyone would at that point.

In fact, I was lucky enough to overtake that last BMW M6 GT3 to actually overtake everyone on the first lap. But on any ordinary try, it will be a bit of a challenge to try and overtake everyone on the first lap considering their patterns and predictability.

Added bonus: When you drive the wrong way and you're surrounded by them, at least they're aware of you and will slow down and try to dodge your car.

They are, and even if they offered a difficulty slider, it's incredibly likely knowing Polyphony that they would simply increase the speed of the AI and make it 'hard' that way instead of spending any time in making an AI that has some sort of fight.
That's simply not enough though, one suggestion would be that they should use various tire compounds, or the same tire compound as you (don't restrict them to hards or mediums), and that they should have different pitting patterns and behaviors, so they're more unpredictable and actually have a strategy.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't step up their AI game, I mean it's good to keep them competitive, but not too hard, but also not too generous. Compared to Forza's AI, I think Gran Turismo's AI are trying to play it safe to encourage clean driving.

Well, Forza's AI can be quite reckless and a testament to the dangerous driving seen, especially online, or perhaps even the wonky collision physics, plus with the lack of space they give on the track, or sudden aggressive tactics (their AI system uses Drivatars which study players' behaviors and implement them on AI drivers), or worse (especially in the Xbox 360 days), messing with the rewind system could cause them to deliberately make mistakes with devastating consequences (be it failing to slow down in time and either running off the track, with so much time lost, or crashing so badly to the point of almost no return).
 
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In the AMS video what I saw was that they had so much pace they didn't need to defend they followed the racing line and the red car he was following he only passed because it inexplicably flew off the track. If I missed a good defensive move give me a time stamp so I can see it.
12 seconds and then repeatedly. Notice at around 1:11 when the AI doesn't just brake for no reason in the middle of a corner to let you past, as GT has always had a habit of doing?

I will post this one again (in vain as I'm sure you will once again ignore it).



GT's AI is over a generation behind just about every other sim on the market, that you have to get to over 2 minute in to demonstrate something is evidence enough of that.
 
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I loved playing against AI in past GT titles. Now since AI didn't advance but everything else did, not any more... if AI doesn't change, GT7 could become boring very quickly. Feels more like a grind and like a job instead of a challenge.

And as for Online, and all these settings and parameters. As much as i'd love to have them back (restrict not only tuning but also power/weight to have cars racing while stock), it would create more different lobbies and tear apart the playerbase even further. It's hard to find people as it is, already.
 
12 seconds and then repeatedly.

I will post this one again (in vain as I'm sure you will once again ignore it).



GT's AI is over a generation behind just about every other sim on the market, that you have to get to over 2 minute in to demonstrate something is evidence enough of that.

I was in the middle of the video when I looked for an example to show you. I think their philosophy with AI is to have them be progressively better the further up the field they are so even really bad players feel like they can make progress. It is also much harder to defend against an opponent with better tires so the video wasn't a great example but youtube is hard to search for content. Even so they fought back and passed the player at least twice. I'm in agreement that the AI could use improvement but people saying PSX games had better AI are simply ridiculous.
 
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