Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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Veinz
It is a solution, whether or not people want to do it is their own prerogative. Sure you're not always going to be using you favorite car on your favorite track but it's ridiculous to see people constantly complaining about how slow the ai is meanwhile they are completely unwilling to give online a chance. The way I see it, this is basically like an offline fps player complaining about how bad bots are but refusing to play online.
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Seems strange then that a whole bunch of other racing games (GRID 2019 and Legends, Assetto Corsa and Competizione, rFactor 2, Automobilista) offer varied difficulty modes for offline play, while GT expects you to suffer through slow, brain dead AI if you want to play in the offline sandbox that they have trumpeted in most major aspects.

Almost like most people want to play offline...especially when it's a major part of the game!
 
Samus
Which is actually quite surprising, far more being negative on this aspect compared to GT6.
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Samus
Remember folks, this is how you get improvements in a game. Would GT Sport have finally upgraded the sounds if it wasn't for pretty much every review of GT6 stating how poor they were? Maybe not. Would they have added single player stuff to GTS if lots of people weren't vocal about how it was lacking? The same goes for many other aspects of the games. If everyone just stays quiet and says everything is fine, nothing is going to get improved.
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These are literally from the first 3 reviews I clicked on that were still up. :lol:

The simplistic artificial intelligence remains arguably Gran Turismo’s most serious flaw, especially given Forza Motorsport 5’s new Drivatar system, but although opponents are a little less robotic here you never for one moment think you’re competing against real people.
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There is the same 'mobile chicane' behaviour from AI opponents, the same idiosyncratic soundtrack selection, the same driving licence test-locked progression, and the same ample selection of Nissans.
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The AI needs a big upgrade as well. Despite promised improvements, Gran Turismo 6 feels much the same as past GT games. Opponents adhere to a rigid racing line, behaving more like slot cars than real racers. They show almost no awareness of either you or the other AI drivers, clumsily turning into other cars, stamping on the brakes way too early, and failing to power out of corners. In this regard, GT6 feel hugely dated in comparison to its competition and sucks the fun out of the racing. The driving itself is hugely enjoyable and rewarding, but racing with the AI is more like an elaborate obstacle course than a motorsport event.
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But keep up the good fight!!!! One day it might come good and you can justify your time spent then.
 
steve30x
The problem with my PS4 slim is it only supports SATA II Speeds which is around 180MB/s. The PS4 Pro has an upgraded SATA III Controller so I'm going to get a PS4 pro. I would buy a PS5 but they are still being scalped and a MSRP one is very very difficult to find. Theres a slightly faster load time in my PS4 Slim and its much quieter with the SSD in it but it should in theory be much quicker with a PS4 Pro. Not only that but GT7 will look much better on a PS4 Pro.
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Sat's III is only around 550. Obviously a gain over II though.

When you finally get a PS5, you're looking 5500+! The load times are no joke.

JC_Dude
The PS4 Pro was insanely loud in my experience. Honestly glad it’s gone now. The PS5 has ridiculously superior hardware.
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Mines the same, certain games, Rdr2 etc absolutely rape it.

PS5 is so much quieter, never even hear it.
 
Phaceless_Ph
He's on a crusade against people who don't have an identical opinion to him... because god forbid that the wider audience aren't actually that bothered about AI when they're going to race online.
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The wider audience isn't going to play online at all, just like in the online-oriented GT Sport. 84% of players never entered a single race in Sport mode.

Also, it seems like you're on a crusade against him for not having an identical opinion to you. You keep being passive agressive about him being critical about the game.
 
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So far I find the reviews terribly biased, like they can't see beyond the super polish and great presentation. The game still has the same shortcomings when it comes to AI and gameplay. Well but those are minor issues aren't they.......

Example : Content from the original GRiD/TOCA series appears in Grid Legends. It's called recycling content. In Gran Turismo 7 it is called "returning to glory days / form".
 
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NICKname
The wider audience isn't going to play online at all, just like in the online-oriented GT Sport. 84% of players never entered a single race in Sport mode.

Also, it seems like you're on a crusade against him for not having an identical opinion to you.
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I don’t play sport mode at all but I play online a lot. How do they measure the % of players on that aspect?
 
I must say that I'm very surprised to what it was presented. I decided to be skeptical for this installment, to avoid hype and disappointment, wait until proper reviews and other players to play, and then decide if I would buy it (especially because I'm in PS4 base for now). By the looks it was worth it. A few months ago, I listed what, IMHO, would be required to improve the game, and here is what I see now (forget the part about the FFB, I rephrased that later :D):

Warte
OK, looking over this thread (and the questionnaire above) it's clear that if Polyphony confirms the PS4 move (which at the moment hasn't happened yet) a vast majority of players will be pissed. However, reading the reasons presented to feel that way, I'd say that maybe, maaaaybe isn't the end of the world, if Polyphony strive enough in key elements of the game (which by the way I don't know they will do, but hey, if any developer reads this forum and implement my suggestions, who knows :D).

Before we begin, to elaborate better my line of thinking, I recommend watching those two episodes from Ars Technica - War Stories (which by the way, are awesome ones):





To simplify, both stories revolved into hardware limitations that developers needed to overcome to create their games, and both evolved into key elements of the game being build, not constrained, by the resources limitations at the time. I don't need to be a PC Master Race aficionado (I'm a very analog thinking person yet :lol:) to know that both Apple II and Play Station 1 are centuries behind the current/next gen capabilities.

So, what does I want to argue then? That what can make Gran Turismo 7 a good game does not revolves into the hardware limitations of PS4 or the marvelous advance that PS5 represents (and I can see your blasphemy face right now), but into what CAN be implemented into both platforms so the game have enough sauce for the players. I'll list them:

1 - A compelling career mode: Unfortunately, this is something in what GT5, GT6 and GT Sport lacked. Going through the career mode felt only like changing menus, not something that you conquered. In GT Sport, for example, there are "Championships" that doesn't carry any sort of accomplishment (Seriously, what it means beating "The Passion of Doctor Wankel"?). Racing the Stars and Stripes is no different than the Mazda Cup, you only change the allowed car and voilà! It would be positive to have a career mode where there is meaning to start the Sunday Cup, enter challenging situations with different cars, try something different with another new car into the Clubman Cup, unlocking a national starters championship so you can learn another new circuit, really feeling the step up from road passenger cars to an entry-level racing discipline, or trying a one make cup so you could unlock a different branch of disciplines or cars. Something that creates a provocative atmosphere. Maybe having a Trophy Case with elaborate trophies, insignias, so you can rejoice what you conquered, or fetch what is missing?

2 - A consistent car list: This is where the last GTs where... inconsistent. I believe that any car that is in the game requires some sort of artistic meaning. Why I want this car? Why the player will use it? Will it be competitive? It is historical, or will fulfill a discipline where its relevant? Unfortunately, the GT Sport updates looked more like they patched the cars that where finished first rather than creating a consistent car list. Ex: McLaren F1 and Aston Martin DBR9 in Gr3. Those two cars are relevant, they are competitive in their times, but race alone into a discipline where they don't belong. Wouldn't it be nice to race the McLaren against their BPR counterparts, or the Aston against a GT1 field, instead of a painful BOP against GT3? Also, we have plentiful of modern cars and historic cars that could be relevant to GT (Ex: TCR). Will it be implemented? Unfortunately, there are so many cars that were ignored in the last titles...

I did my racing car only list. I ended up with 1040 racing cars... :lol:

3 - A consistent circuit list: The article quotes two circuits where it could be difficult to implement into PS4, and I don't have resources to oppose that. However, seeing that PC2 have 60 individual circuits, why it can be done in GT? Instead of Isle of Man and Pikes Peak, it would be a worse game if it has Sebring, Dubai, Indianapolis, Daytona, and also the return of the original circuits, like Trial Mountain, Midfield Raceway, and other tracks that also could refine the artistic meaning that I quoted in the car list?

4 - Sandbox capabilities: These are the things presented to the players as usable tools, so they can create whenever he wants. These things carry a lot of replay-ability, and can carry the game longer (Ex: how many people still creates new liveries today!!) Lets break this into three things, the livery editor, custom races/championships and weekend simulator. For the livery editor, the few things that requires improvement are the search mechanism (pain) and the library saving and accessibility. The custom races are also a starter in GT Sport, and I wish they could improve into something that Assetto Corsa already have, choosing your opponents, their liveries, creating a full championship etc. This, with a proper weekend of practice, qualify and race, cannot be done in the PS4?

5 - The Sport Mode: It's imperative to improve the Penalty System. Then one can argue that the PS5 will have higher FPS, which is no problem for the offline modes, only when going into cross gen racing. But if it finds a way to keep it near the 60 FPS rate to online races, it's a problem? It isn't better to have more competition being generated for an online mode?

6 - Controller filtering/Wheel FFB: I started GT Sport playing with the DS4, and I can attest without a doubt that PD can create a competent filtering to controllers. Sure it loses a bit to wheels and tire wear(pain), but IMHO it's miles ahead PC and AC, so this is not my concern (and yes, I hope that the adaptive triggers evolves it even more). It carries the same feeling for wheels FFB (Although, can you refine a little to Logitech users too, please?).

7 - AI: That is something that PD really needs to improve. But other contemporary racing games (and older...) did it good enough, so I can't say that it's hardware limited.


I reached the seventh element of my argument with few things that cannot be implemented in the PS4. Sure, the SSD, CPU and GPU will definitely make better load times and carry more polygons, but it's nothing that will fail to pass QA. Now, the three things that there is fair doubt:

7- Physics/Tire Model: Having much better physics, a priori, could require a leap of hardware. But isn't Project Cars considered to have better physics? The tire model requires refinement, sure, but it's also much more math and situational related than GPU. For example, something that is already implemented is the visual effect of tire slip angle, which I believe is much more resource consuming, so maybe I can see the math being refined, if they want it happening too...

8 - The dynamic weather debacle: Here comes the polemic. I believe that is more important to have a proper physics simulation of the track changes rather than a state of the art dynamic weather visualization. Calculating how the temperature changes the air characteristic and the track grip, showing the effects of this changes throughout the driving, with dynamic grip changes into the track after a number of laps consuming rubber. If its implemented with a simple weather change view, lets say like GT6, it wouldn't be better than a beautiful effect with no consequences in physics? These math changes would be much more useful into any of the 30 min sessions that we race, and even the career races, leaving the endurance races with the visual effects. If we think about realism, dynamic weather with time multipliers isn't realistic too (except at Interlagos, there it is real, trust me, that is a weather nightmare :lol:).

9 - Car counts: There is a concern about the number of cars into the grid. I can remember that there was Top 24 races at the beginning of the GTSport. How it performed? If the offline mode keeps its 20 car limit (considering that they implemented it into private lobbies too), and offline grids increased to 24, wouldn't be an improvement?

Will PD do this? I hope! but I can understand the doubt revolving cross-gen game development. And I sure recommend waiting into proper reviews to buy, since only an honest, hands on experience can attest if is worth it. We don't need another Cyberfraud 2077. And besides, if GT7 ends up being a PS5 exclusive and fails to deliver those things, does it matter how many Teraflops the hardware can perform?
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1 - A compelling career mode:

The new format could end up being different to what we are used, but its undeniable a good attempt. The Cafe idea looks elegant, and the number of different modes deserves a shot.

2 - A consistent car list:

Sure, it didn't have my 1040 racing car wish list (:lol:), but keeping all (or almost all, I see you Fittipaldi VGT...) the cars from Sport and adding more is definitely good. I have antipathy when iterations remove content to create false scarcity. I expect PD could keep carrying over vehicle assets for future installments, and keep focus in new additions. I just hope to see what they add through updates, because considering what happened to GT Sport, for the game to remain healthy, they must be consistent!!

3 - A consistent circuit list:

Similar as the cars.

4 - Sandbox capabilities:

The tuning looks very promising, with so many options to push for different builds!! And the Custom Race options are something that was absolutely required for me to improve the experience (they read my comment, of course (:lol:). That looks the point with most improvements for me. I absolutely loved the idea of allowing the PC to use your cars against you, it opens many possibilities! I expect to be able to save your settings in the future, it would be very useful.

5 - The Sport Mode:

Lets see the penalty system... I liked punishing white line violations, and the pyramid championship structure.

6 - Controller filtering/Wheel FFB:

The PS5 pad looks well implemented, so lets see about it too.

7 - AI:

This SHOULD be the main focus for improvement right now. Chasing the rabbit isn't fun, and not improving the AI for so long isn't acceptable at this point. Lets hope Sophy is the answer we all want...

7- Physics/Tire Model:

As SuperGT said in his video, it looks refined. It deserves a shot.

8 - The dynamic weather debacle:

Seeing the Digital Foundry video, during rain and with full grid, the PS4 base reduces to 45fps. Sure, it isn't "good", but its waaaay different than the catastrophe that some were expecting. Even in PS4, the game looks competent.

9 - Car counts:

Looks similar to Sport, nothing to worry for me. We didn't lost nothing for the PS4 too.
 
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So far ..........I'm like give it to me baby , it's more or even more of what I expected as a GT Title . so dear Sony just "Send It "
 
Phaceless_Ph
He's on a crusade against people who don't have an identical opinion to him... because god forbid that the wider audience aren't actually that bothered about AI when they're going to race online.
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I'm not on a crusade against anyone. I've simply asked you and several people to provide the evidence that most people aren't bothered about AI or find them OK, but you've failed to provide the evidence.
 
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NICKname
The wider audience isn't going to play online at all, just like in the online-oriented GT Sport. 84% of players never entered a single race in Sport mode.
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Really? Then I can kinda understand why it's a big deal, but some people go a bit too far with it and more or less metaphorically demand people boycott the game

@AllMightyVTEC It'll probably be a couple of years till Sophy is "retail ready", for multiple reasons.
 
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Phaceless_Ph
more or less metaphorically demand people boycott the game
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No, they don't. Find me one single post where anyone even remotely suggests that other people shouldn't play the game.

It's merely people saying THEY won't play the game, or THEY find the AI disappointing and then people like yourself telling them to stop moaning in one way or another.

Jordan criticised the AI in his review. Was that him telling people not to buy the game? No, it was merely him giving his opinion.
 
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doblocruiser
So far I find the reviews terribly biased, like they can't see beyond the super polish and great presentation. The game still has the same shortcomings when it comes to AI and gameplay. Well but those are minor issues aren't they.......

Example : Content from the original GRiD/TOCA series appears in Grid Legends. It's called recycling content. In Gran Turismo 7 it is called "returning to glory days / form".
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Agree its what happens when a brand has a strong name behind it.
 

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