Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[fokuzx2]

And Goodwood Festival of Speed track too!!!!

that track would be nice!

 

[PSN offapple]

Sadly many do, there are countless examples dotted around the internet of people saying they bought them. Like this guy



..and these are the exact kind of people PD are targetting, those who can afford to keep buying them over and over. They're not interested in you or I buying a couple of them for $2 once.

Again, just my opinion on the topic, but if an adult (someone who has a decent level of financial understanding) wants to spend money on microtransactions, that's up to them.
If it's a child then microtransactions of GT7's kind can be an issue if their purchases are not supervised by a parent/guardian (which frankly they should be).
But if gaming "whales" want to part with their money and are aware and responsible for their actions, it's a plus for me as that's more funding for the game I play.

So the 2 groups I see optional microtransactions being bad for are unsupervised children, and addicts that can't be trusted with financial responsibility.

 

[Samus]

Again, just my opinion on the topic, but if an adult (someone who has a decent level of financial understanding) wants to spend money on microtransactions, that's up to them.
If it's a child then microtransactions of GT7's kind can be an issue if their purchases are not supervised by a parent/guardian (which frankly they should be).
But if gaming "whales" want to part with their money and are aware and responsible for their actions, it's a plus for me as that's more funding for the game I play.

So the 2 groups I see optional microtransactions being bad for are unsupervised children, and addicts that can't be trusted with financial responsibility.

It's not a plus in that they're driving how our games are designed though. If GT7 didn't have MTs, do you think it'd have all the FOMO mechanics, prices matching real world prices, inflation every three months, a grind that is purposely tedious through a lack of variety of well paying events, and so on?

That's why MTs will always be an issue even if you don't spend a penny on them personally. As long as other people are, they're going to keep making games shaped around them.

 

[rkwld]

Again, just my opinion on the topic, but if an adult (someone who has a decent level of financial understanding) wants to spend money on microtransactions, that's up to them.
If it's a child then microtransactions of GT7's kind can be an issue if their purchases are not supervised by a parent/guardian (which frankly they should be).
But if gaming "whales" want to part with their money and are aware and responsible for their actions, it's a plus for me as that's more funding for the game I play.

So the 2 groups I see optional microtransactions being bad for are unsupervised children, and addicts that can't be trusted with financial responsibility.

Nobody really argues whether or not people have the right to spend their money on whatever they want. The discussion usually revolves around their inclusion in games and the design choices that propagate as a result and whether this is good for the direction of game design in general. GT7 is a good example because MANY of the negative aspects of the game (i.e., poor race payouts, vehicle FOMO, brand invitations, etc.) are a direct result of choices made to incorporate the use of MTXs.

Any player is either spending time or money on the game to achieve their goals; the developer wants your money and will make the game punish your time enough that it becomes more valuable to you than your money. It's not good for gaming as a principle.

A good analogy I've seen used is using a personal vehicle vs. mass transit. Many people will spend a LOT more money on a personal vehicle, insurance, maintenance and gasoline for the convenience of not wasting their time waiting for mass transit even though it is much cheaper.

 

[PSN offapple]

Thanks for all of your insight on the subject. It's been interesting to read.

Bit of a subject change, but if Kaz said the update is going to be "next week" and he posted it on Sunday, hopefully he doesn't count Sunday as the first day of the week.

Looking forward to the update regardless. Will be interesting to see if we get a circuit as predicted, and what it would be. I'm still going to hope for Road Atlanta given Petit Le Mans was earlier this month, but at this point I have no idea what datamine circuits have actual content and which don't.

 

[Saargasm]

Thanks for all of your insight on the subject. It's been interesting to read.

Bit of a subject change, but if Kaz said the update is going to be "next week" and he posted it on Sunday, hopefully he doesn't count Sunday as the first day of the week.

Looking forward to the update regardless. Will be interesting to see if we get a circuit as predicted, and what it would be. I'm still going to hope for Road Atlanta given Petit Le Mans was earlier this month, but at this point I have no idea what datamine circuits have actual content and which don't.

All the sunday posts from Him regarding the update always says "next week" and occurs 4-days later on Thursday. Possibly in Japan they use Monday as the start of the week?

 

[dkstz]

Tat's why MTs will always be an issue even if you don't spend a penny on them personally. As long as other people are, they're going to keep making games shaped around them.

Perfect statement! Even if one doesn't buy mtx, it is heavily affected by the mere existence of them.

 

[BigSarj]

Again, sony hasn't published a major MP game since Uncharted 4 and MLB, Every single major MP game has MTX for money, show me which one doesn't that's not a singleplayer only game and had REAL multiplayer, not some online connectivity features. Troll man's own admittance, MLB is plagued with MTX and that's literally the only sony AAA with MP aside from demon souls (which has a copy-paste MP from the ps3 version) / GT7 on the ps5 . The only current sony MP game is Ghost of Tsushima, and that game had some predatory upgrade paths to the ps5 so their goodwill of having a basic add-on MP that was genuinely basic to the bone just goes to show you that sony is trying to milk gamers.
Let's all be smart and single out polyphony when EVERY single sony studio with online MP has this /s

I buy MLB The Show every so often and though I stick to Road to the Show or Franchise mode, I know a few people who play Diamond Dynasty, which is their equivalent to EA's Ultimate Team modes. They all agree that the MTX in The Show is far, far less predatory than in those other sports games.

Even I have earned some very nice, top tier "player cards" just by playing the game. The best part? I can sell them for in-game credits in the game's marketplace and use those credits to buy nice little cosmetics for my players' equipment. I'm no expert but it does seem like one can hold their own in Diamond Dynasty without spending one red cent.

 

[MonoTonouS]

I buy MLB The Show every so often and though I stick to Road to the Show or Franchise mode, I know a few people who play Diamond Dynasty, which is their equivalent to EA's Ultimate Team modes. They all agree that the MTX in The Show is far, far less predatory than in those other sports games.

Even I have earned some very nice, top tier "player cards" just by playing the game. The best part? I can sell them for in-game credits in the game's marketplace and use those credits to buy nice little cosmetics for my players' equipment. I'm no expert but it does seem like one can hold their own in Diamond Dynasty without spending one red cent.

And the MTX in GT7 isn't predatory either, if the yare then most games have some hyper-predatory stuff .

Game dev's are screwed, everyone wants them to earn a great wage, but game prices haven't moved in almost 14 years ( they did 10$ more, not keeping up with inflation) and game development costs more and more. Pea's brains want to blame investors but if gaming was a low-return investment no one would invest their money in it opting to invest in better business ventures and suddenly the budget of games drops, people get fired, etc. I would rather Polyphony drop MTX, sell the game as is, and release the three free cars a month with a paid 5 car pack and charge for the offline access to tracks ( arcade mode, time trial, circuit experience, and custom race) giving players one free event on it to try out. That way every one gets the content online so the player base isn't split but people get content without feeling like the content si geared to sell MTX. Sony has tried this and obviously it doesn't generate as much because as a Professor said once " you can sell drugs one time, but you can sell a prostitute many times " . MTX can infinitely generate, how do you make MTX that infinitely generate and DON't feel predatory, I have no idea. Rent servers? pay to promote listings in the virtual market place? I genuinely don't know.

 

[ScottPuss20]

If GT7 didn't have MTs, do you think it'd have all the FOMO mechanics, prices matching real world prices, inflation every three months, a grind that is purposely tedious through a lack of variety of well paying events, and so on?

I think it still would.

Bit of a subject change, but if Kaz said the update is going to be "next week" and he posted it on Sunday, hopefully he doesn't count Sunday as the first day of the week.

I don't think he does count it as the first day of the week.

 

[BigSarj]

And the MTX in GT7 isn't predatory either, if the yare then most games have some hyper-predatory stuff .

Game dev's are screwed, everyone wants them to earn a great wage, but game prices haven't moved in almost 14 years ( they did 10$ more, not keeping up with inflation) and game development costs more and more. Pea's brains want to blame investors but if gaming was a low-return investment no one would invest their money in it opting to invest in better business ventures and suddenly the budget of games drops, people get fired, etc. I would rather Polyphony drop MTX, sell the game as is, and release the three free cars a month with a paid 5 car pack and charge for the offline access to tracks ( arcade mode, time trial, circuit experience, and custom race) giving players one free event on it to try out. That way every one gets the content online so the player base isn't split but people get content without feeling like the content si geared to sell MTX. Sony has tried this and obviously it doesn't generate as much because as a Professor said once " you can sell drugs one time, but you can sell a prostitute many times " . MTX can infinitely generate, how do you make MTX that infinitely generate and DON't feel predatory, I have no idea. Rent servers? pay to promote listings in the virtual market place? I genuinely don't know.

You're right that it may not be predatory. I admittedly can't say what constitutes a predatory practice every time. I guess it's hard for any of us to say what earns them more profit; the GT Sport model or the GT7 model. I can only speak for myself by saying that I would have dropped a lot more money into this game if cars were five dollars each.

As it stands, a few of those legendary cars cost over $280 CAD. Insanity. Minimum wage in my province is $15. I think it does lean towards predatory when there are seemingly only three events to grind. But, hey, I haven't done any of those events due to my own principles and lack of interest in spending that much time to buy a car I'd likely spend less than half an hour driving in the game before boredom set in.

I think they just need another set of million credit missions and some more events that pay decent. I hope for everyone's sake that this happens.

 

[MonoTonouS]

They should just return to the GTS model, In GTS you couldn't buy vehicles that cost a certain amount though.

 

[Boxster]

You're right that it may not be predatory. I admittedly can't say what constitutes a predatory practice every time. I guess it's hard for any of us to say what earns them more profit; the GT Sport model or the GT7 model. I can only speak for myself by saying that I would have dropped a lot more money into this game if cars were five dollars each.

As it stands, a few of those legendary cars cost over $280 CAD. Insanity. Minimum wage in my province is $15. I think it does lean towards predatory when there are seemingly only three events to grind. But, hey, I haven't done any of those events due to my own principles and lack of interest in spending that much time to buy a car I'd likely spend less than half an hour driving in the game before boredom set in.

I think they just need another set of million credit missions and some more events that pay decent. I hope for everyone's sake that this happens.

Predatory is a combo when you cannot avoid buying MTX, there are addictive elements in the game, and the game is designed to lure you to a point where it is highly frustrating not to use MTX.
In GT7 none of these elements are there. You just have to grind a lot to get all cars.

 

[Samus]

highly frustrating not to use MTX.
In GT7 none of these elements are there. You just have to grind a lot to get all cars

You don't think that is highly frustrating, running the same easy races with no challenge over and over again?

 

[Techlet]

I hope PD doesn't screw with the PP again this update. It's getting a bit annoying having to retune every single car after every update.

Not a good sign...

 

[Suzuki-Cara]

I hope PD doesn't screw with the PP again this update. It's getting a bit annoying having to retune every single car after every update.

View attachment 1201612

Not a good sign...

Clubman plus ➕️ Bros, I don't feel too good....

 

[Mariangello]

I hope PD doesn't screw with the PP again this update. It's getting a bit annoying having to retune every single car after every update.

View attachment 1201612

Not a good sign...

Another attempt to make the grind more difficult?

 

[Techlet]

Another attempt to make the grind more difficult?

PD goes nuclear on the PP system to fix one harmless glitch (Tomahawk/Alpine A220/etc. etc.) only to have another, even better one take over as a directly result of the previous "fix" (Cappucino and Escudo).

 

[tankuroded]

I hope PD doesn't screw with the PP again this update. It's getting a bit annoying having to retune every single car after every update.

View attachment 1201612

Not a good sign...

This notice has always been posted every update maintenance.

 

[Nebuc72]

PD goes nuclear on the PP system to fix one harmless glitch (Tomahawk/Alpine A220/etc. etc.) only to have another, even better one take over as a directly result of the previous "fix" (Cappucino and Escudo).

It's not harmless though mate. It breaks the exploit to fix the issue, but the exploit isn't limited to just the events, is it? It's every car.

PP races online were essentially broken because you could completely negate the system with a broken tune and destroy the entire concept. I'm not sure why everyone is so obsessed with the notion that PD want to destroy their grind when essentially every update they push is focused on improving or altering something that's online.

Damage sensitivity is because of online, the lobby fixes, reintroducing chat messages, alterations to the penalty system.. they are all fixes either focused on online racing or are for online racing. The PP system was broken and was unusable online, and it destroyed their tuner races in Sport. It's far more likely they just wanted to fix that than Kaz being a sadist watching people suffer because their favourite exploit doesn't work for grinding now.

 

[mynameis66]

PD goes nuclear on the PP system to fix one harmless glitch (Tomahawk/Alpine A220/etc. etc.) only to have another, even better one take over as a directly result of the previous "fix" (Cappucino and Escudo).

Escudo`s not a glitch,if you mean by using CM tyres,its possible with every vehicle.

 

[Techlet]

Escudo`s not a glitch,if you mean by using CM tyres,its possible with every vehicle.

With the new update, the Escudo is hilarious at 800pp.

It's not harmless though mate. It breaks the exploit to fix the issue, but the exploit isn't limited to just the events, is it? It's every car.

PP races online were essentially broken because you could completely negate the system with a broken tune and destroy the entire concept. I'm not sure why everyone is so obsessed with the notion that PD want to destroy their grind when essentially every update they push is focused on improving or altering something that's online.

Damage sensitivity is because of online, the lobby fixes, reintroducing chat messages, alterations to the penalty system.. they are all fixes either focused on online racing or are for online racing. The PP system was broken and was unusable online, and it destroyed their tuner races in Sport. It's far more likely they just wanted to fix that than Kaz being a sadist watching people suffer because their favourite exploit doesn't work for grinding now.

Oh yes the PP system is absoutely broken to the core. But what's needed is a fundamental rethink and not these bandaid fixes patch after patch where you have a month to find a new way to exploit the system in an endless whac-a-mole.

What have they actually done to fix PP calcuations besides stripping layers of it away? We're now at a point where a 1100 HP AWD car that weighs 800 KG with more than enough aero is considered to be equivalent in performance, using the same tires, to a 500-600ish HP RWD car that weighs more than 1000 KG without any glitched settings. As you might expect one of those cars is easily 10s faster per lap.

 

[mynameis66]

With the new update, the Escudo is hilarious at 800pp.

Its been that way since it appeared,the original ran on CS a while back.
Slightly off topic,the problem with glitches,especially on youtube,they are advertised in the titles.I assume its to get people to click on them,some of them are legit money methods they arent glitches at all just clickbait,but i suppose it makes it easier for pd or developers to trawl through YT and pick up the glitch tunes to patch.This is all assumption on my part,for all i know pd dont do this,i honestly dont know.
Some glitches add a little fun to the game,as long as they dont affect online or lobby matches wheres the harm?
Regarding the pp changes how do pd decide which cars go up or down?Do they look and see car x is being used to grind credits so they nerf it,the veneno springs to mind,the pp went up a lot on that.It would be interesting to have an insight into how they decide,it cant be all about the MTX surely?Sorry for the ramble.

 

[Boxster]

You don't think that is highly frustrating, running the same easy races with no challenge over and over again?

Don't you get tired of selective quoting to just repeat your own point over and over again?

 

[Samus]

Don't you get tired of selective quoting to just repeat your own point over and over again?

Not really. You just made up your own definition of predatory MTs and then said GT7 didn't do any of those things, when it clearly does. Unless you think it's not frustrating having to repeat the same races over and over and over. The game only having four events that pay out roughly the same maximum amount is clearly a 100% design choice after 7 months, they've done it on purpose to make the grind tedious and frustrating.

Predatory simply means "seeking to exploit others". The GT7 MTs, alongside the rest of the game, seek to exploit those who suffer with FOMO and those who don't have willpower through intentional mechanics in the game designed to push those feelings.

 

[rkwld]

Don't you get tired of selective quoting to just repeat your own point grinding the same 3 races over and over again?

 

[Mathaios_C]

What’s the advantage of having 3/4 races with an high payout instead of having at least one x circuit? Literally nothing. Just an ugly, bad and wrong design choice.

 

[Flowering00]

its out, no new track

 

[DS13_supergt]

its out, no new track

sadly no new track, but at least the cars we are getting are nice, especially the gtr.

 

[alex511]

WHERES your track? Predictions here, predictions there.

as i said, DISAPPOINTMENT!