Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Lalalalala]

This video shows how much oversteer the Porsche has at default setting and required pretty much an extreme tune to make it drivable (this is not even a FR or MR car...) Point being on how broken the physics are that one would need extreme measures to make it drive like a real car.

You can always "drive around" the issues with the way the physics is being provided as many persistent posters have pointed out (don't full lock your wheel when turning, be gentle on throttle, etc.), it doesn't mean the physics aren't broken, and that you will always be just focused on not crashing instead of pushing the car.

 

[AlexWilmot]

there's no difference between 80/100% throttle because the game just sees it was 100% regardless.

@chengman @Pmc4068 quite clearly a difference between 80% and 100% throttle

Roughly 80% to 90% throttle - time is 14.079
100% throttle - time is 13.687

Here’s some video of it and not just words being spewed out.

 

[Lion-Face]

This video shows how much oversteer the Porsche has at default setting and required pretty much an extreme tune to make it drivable (this is not even a FR or MR car...) Point being on how broken the physics are that one would need extreme measures to make it drive like a real car.

You can always "drive around" the issues with the way the physics is being provided as many persistent posters have pointed out (don't full lock your wheel when turning, be gentle on throttle, etc.), it doesn't mean the physics aren't broken, and that you will always be just focused on not crashing instead of pushing the car.

That is a poor video. Does a rubbish lap, puts on a tune and does a better lap therefore physics broken? I could put his tune on, do a rubbish lap, run a better lap on the default tune and therefore say physics working? That is not a way to prove a point where physics are wrong.

 

[FPV MIC]

@chengman @Pmc4068 quite clearly a difference between 80% and 100% throttle

Roughly 80% to 90% throttle - time is 14.079
100% throttle - time is 13.687

Here’s some video of it and not just words being spewed out.

I don't think that's what @chengman and @Pmc4068 mean (and I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong here). If what they're experiencing is the same as me it's that when you get to 80-90% of the input devices travel I'm already registering 100% throttle in the game (R2 button on the controller and accelerator pedal on T-LCM's) rendering the last 10-20% of the travel useless. I'm not having a big issue with it myself but it would be nice to be able to use the full range of the travel to help throttle modulation.

In-game calibration that we can also manually adjustment would be great so we can tailor these things to our individual needs.

 

[Firestone]

where is this video where you held a slide while on power? all of my favourite low power FR car is still snap oversteering on high speed corners.

I'm not even really good at doing this, but it's a night and day difference from what it was before as you couldn't hold a sustained slide before it snaps around. I don't think I hopped on and magically knew how to get around the game's engine the next time I tried.

 

[AlexWilmot]

I don't think that's what @chengman and @Pmc4068 mean (and I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong here). If what they're experiencing is the same as me it's that when you get to 80-90% of the input devices travel I'm already registering 100% throttle in the game (R2 button on the controller and accelerator pedal on T-LCM's) rendering the last 10-20% of the travel useless. I'm not having a big issue with it myself but it would be nice to be able to use the full range of the travel to help throttle modulation.

In-game calibration that we can also manually adjustment would be great so we can tailor these things to our individual needs.

If that’s the case why they say it’s an issue with the game and then say it in the physics thread I don’t get,

That’s a hardware issue not a GT7 physics issue

 

[FPV MIC]

If that’s the case why they say it’s an issue with the game and then say it in the physics thread I don’t get,

That’s a hardware issue not a GT7 physics issue

It's not a physics issue but it is a game issue. The game is what sets the parameters for these devices and in the case of the PS5 DualSense there's no way to change that other than the game allowing us to via a calibration menu. It is possible with the PC software for the T-LCM's but that would throw the pedals out of whack for every other game so again, it could be solved by an in-game calibration menu like many other games have.

 

[AlexWilmot]

It's not a physics issue but it is a game issue. The game is what sets the parameters for these devices and in the case of the PS5 DualSense there's no way to change that other than the game allowing us to via a calibration menu. It is possible with the PC software for the T-LCM's but that would throw the pedals out of whack for every other game so again, it could be solved by an in-game calibration menu like many other games have.

We’re in the physics thread…

 

[FPV MIC]

We’re in the physics thread…

So? It still doesn't make it wrong, and it can accentuate the physics issues.

What did the post of yours I replied to have to do with physics?

 

[AlexWilmot]

So? It still doesn't make it wrong, and it can accentuate the physics issues.

What did the post of yours I replied to have to do with physics?

Read the conversation mate and then you’ll understand

 

[FPV MIC]

Read the conversation mate and then you’ll understand

I did. If their posts weren't physics related then neither was yours.


All I was doing was explaining to you what was going on and that I thought you'd misunderstood what they were meaning... and it certainly seems like you had.

 

[Niop]

We’re in the physics thread…

I think the whole point of the throttle mapping posts is to bring awareness to the fact you may getting more throttle than you're expecting. That may be causing people to blame the physics if they weren't aware.
It's been brought up several times over the course of this thread.

 

[Firestone]

And every single piece of evidence we have goes against that, it doesn't really matter if you don't see how it could result in a disaster, that doesn't actually change the risks involved in what you are suggesting.

Nice deflection, not the point I raised at all.

Ok, I went back and looked at the updates
It's a fact they adjusted rear wheel physics around that time. Version 1.06 was push around March 10
Looking at my post history, March 12 I did the IB-3 license test with the RC-F. I discretely remember how oversteery the car was and surgical with the steering. The next morning I performed the same test and noticed the difference in steering FFB response and control and there not needing to be has much surgical input. Others on this forum have reported the same thing around that time. They did not push an update between March 12 and March 13. So this can mean two things then
1. They implemented a delay on when they game updates the physic model
or
2. They can implement code and choose when to turn it on or off. If you can relate anything they do with Sport mode, they have full capability to do this.
But I know for a fact that whatever updates they make to the physics engine don't occur right after the updates.

Why did you raise up my comment about GTS? GT7 adjusted itself towards the direction of GTS. Road cars were not bad in the game. The GT3 cars were the issue.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I can 100% assure and prove with a Video if you like that the Throttle/Brake Mapping is absolutely corresponded 1:1 with my In Game Inputs.
So it’s definitely not an issue with the Game incorrectly outputting your inputs, rather than you having sloppy Throttle/Brake Inputs. Definitely anyone who thinks I’m wrong can respond to my Statement and I’ll prove my point with a Video 😎

 

[FPV MIC]

I can 100% assure and prove with a Video if you like that the Throttle/Brake Mapping is absolutely corresponded 1:1 with my In Game Inputs.
So it’s definitely not an issue with the Game incorrectly outputting your inputs, rather than you having sloppy Throttle/Brake Inputs. Definitely anyone who thinks I’m wrong can respond to my Statement and I’ll prove my point with a Video 😎

I don't think there's any reason you'd lie (Edit 2: and I believe what you say) but did it occur to you that it may not be an issue for your particular set-up, or that quality control isn't always perfect with devices like the DualSense? Are you using the T-LCM's or the DualSense that have been mentioned? Why I mentioned in-game calibration is because it takes the guesswork and inconsistencies out.

I'm not good with recording video's or video editing (sorry ) so I can't show one but I can assure you that my inputs are very consistent when I'm doing a burnout hard against a wall with no TC and yet I can ease back on my throttle on either of the above mentioned methods and be 10-20% off the stop and have the game still register it as 100%. Sloppiness has jack to do with it under these conditions. Edit: Like I said in a previous post, I'm not having a big issue with it, but the reason for this is that I know it's happening.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I don't think there's any reason you'd lie but did it occur to you that it may not be an issue for your particular set-up, or that quality control isn't always perfect with devices like the DualSense? Are you using the T-LCM's or the DualSense that have been mentioned? Why I mentioned in-game calibration is because it takes the guesswork and inconsistencies out.

I'm not good with recording video's or video editing (sorry ) so I can't show one but I can assure you that my inputs are very consistent when I'm doing a burnout hard against a wall with no TC and yet I can ease back on my throttle on either of the above mentioned methods and be 10-20% off the stop and have the game still register it as 100%. Sloppiness has jack to do with it under these conditions. Edit: Like I said in a previous post, I'm not having a big issue with it, but the reason for this is that I know it's happening.

I can only speak for me using the Fanatec CSL Load Cell Pedals.
But I’d be very surprised if it‘d turn out to be different when using other Pedals or even a DualSense 5 Controller.
My Inputs are 100% recognized the same as I apply them through my pedals, trust me.
I‘m no idiot
In GTS for example it was different.
The Throttle Curve was not linear at all. Braking Inputs though have been 1:1.
So again, in GT7 it’s definitely linear for both, Throttle and Brake.
At least with my Setup 😁

 

[FPV MIC]

I can only speak for me using the Fanatec CSL Load Cell Pedals.
But I’d be very surprised if it‘d turn out to be different when using other Pedals or even a DualSense 5 Controller.
My Inputs are 100% recognized the same as I apply them through my pedals, trust me.
I‘m no idiot
In GTS for example it was different.
The Throttle Curve was not linear at all. Braking Inputs though have been 1:1.
So again, in GT7 it’s definitely linear for both, Throttle and Brake.
At least with my Setup 😁

I agree it's linear and I do trust what you say (I just edited my previous post to say I believed you ) but that's not the issue we've been discussing. It's the deadzone (I probably should have used this terminology earlier to save confusion) of 10-20% at the end of the pedal/R2 travel that is. It's only a minor inconvenience though.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I agree it's linear and I do trust what you say (I just edited my previous post to say I believed you ) but that's not the issue we've been discussing. It's the deadzone (I probably should have used this terminology earlier to save confusion) of 10-20% at the end of the pedal/R2 travel that is. It's only a minor inconvenience though.

All good no worries 😁 now I get what you mean.
And yes you‘re right the final 5-10% throttle input are kind of not accurately shown at least it appears like that when checking the in game Gauge on the Throttle Input.
I actually never play with HUD turned on but lately because of some issues with my Load Cell Pedal, I turned on the HUD and there I noticed that the final, I’d say 5% of Throttle input are not displayed on the In Game Gauge.
At least that’s what it looks like to me , although it makes a difference if you either completely depress the Throttle Button,Pedal down or not.
I just think it’s not shown or represented accurately but nevertheless it’s recognized correctly.
At least from my observation.
So don’t let yourself be fooled by thinking it’s inaccurate, it is accurate, it’s just not shown correctly, again just from my Observations 😁

 

[PirovacBoy]

BTW, just a question out of curiosity.
Do any of you Chaps play GT7 with ABS set to weak???
I do.
But I think ABS set to default is still OP.
From my Observation, with ABS set to weak it’s much more precise to modulate and initiate trail braking, but because of GT7s implementation of Default ABS which adds some Engine Force Regenaration to the Spinning Tires, it somehow makes the Cars more stable.
I just noticed it today.
I always only use ABS on weak and some of my Buddies who use ABS on Default are now faster than me.
Usually our pace is equal, but with ABS on default they just have an advantage.
I then asked them to use ABS weak too, and voila, they were slower, I was able to outperform them because they were not used to the Cars‘ Behavior with ABS set to weak.
Afterwards, I asked them how they
”feel” about using ABS weak and they said it feels more precise, yet it’s slower over a lap.
Really Pity, but hey no worries.
Just another small observation I noticed and got confirmed that I’m not mad 😅

 

[extreme car]

I'm not even really good at doing this, but it's a night and day difference from what it was before as you couldn't hold a sustained slide before it snaps around. I don't think I hopped on and magically knew how to get around the game's engine the next time I tried.

so you see my problem is at around 0.18 where your car almost snapped on power at the end of your drift, it shouldn't be doing that IMO, losing the rear tyre grip should be more progressive while the wheel FFB should be giving you information that the car is going to lose grip (I think GTS communicates this better than GT7). You tried to mask the snappy power oversteer problem by putting rear wing on the car, it kind of works but it will still kill you because of the unpredictable rear on off grip tyre physics in GT7.

other than that I've been trying many different FF, AWD, MR road cars these past few days and I find the FF cars to be the most fun cars to drive in GT7 because most of the driving tricks that I saw actuallly worked on the FF cars like the left foot braking and scandanavian flick.

 

[JDMKING13]

BTW, just a question out of curiosity.
Do any of you Chaps play GT7 with ABS set to weak???
I do.
But I think ABS set to default is still OP.
From my Observation, with ABS set to weak it’s much more precise to modulate and initiate trail braking, but because of GT7s implementation of Default ABS which adds some Engine Force Regenaration to the Spinning Tires, it somehow makes the Cars more stable.
I just noticed it today.
I always only use ABS on weak and some of my Buddies who use ABS on Default are now faster than me.
Usually our pace is equal, but with ABS on default they just have an advantage.
I then asked them to use ABS weak too, and voila, they were slower, I was able to outperform them because they were not used to the Cars‘ Behavior with ABS set to weak.
Afterwards, I asked them how they
”feel” about using ABS weak and they said it feels more precise, yet it’s slower over a lap.
Really Pity, but hey no worries.
Just another small observation I noticed and got confirmed that I’m not mad 😅

I always use ABS weak default feels like assisted braking which is no problem, but ABS weak just gives me a realistic sensation when braking. I don’t care if I’m slower. 😂 Cars with Advance driving modes such as 458 for example, I allow abs Default to be used in my league… cars such as 370z, S2000, etc are only allowed ABS weak.

 

[driftnick13]

You mean IRL? Agree. It wouldn't snap in ACC either. But in GT as well as in many other games where "seat of pants" is simulated - G-forces felt in your body - it should pull towards the middle since the rear end of the car is pulling outwards. No?

It doesn't do it irl and I don't know of any other sim that does it.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I always use ABS weak default feels like assisted braking which is no problem, but ABS weak just gives me a realistic sensation when braking. I don’t care if I’m slower. 😂 Cars with Advance driving modes such as 458 for example, I allow abs Default to be used in my league… cars such as 370z, S2000, etc are only allowed ABS weak.

Yes, ABS on weak definitely feels more natural. It’s more true to life and reflects my real life driving experience.
Especially Road Cars are keeping their unique Performance driving them with ABS weak.
Even the Gr3 or 4 Cars feel much more alive and unique but sadly they are just not competitive with this Setting because of PDs‘ overpowered implementation of ABS Default.
ABS Default will always outperform Weak in Comparison.
But same as you I don’t give a S… about that 😅
To me it’s all about immersion and fun when driving the Cars around in GT7.
And therefore as long as I’m not competing in ManufacturersSeries or Dailies, I’ll stick to Weak.
GT7 is simply amazing in recreating the Driving Experience, no other Game can come close to it in my opinion.
Of course it has its deficits no doubt about it, especially the poor communicated sudden loss of traction, but otherwise it’s simply amazing.

 

[Firestone]

so you see my problem is at around 0.18 where your car almost snapped on power at the end of your drift, it shouldn't be doing that IMO, losing the rear tyre grip should be more progressive while the wheel FFB should be giving you information that the car is going to lose grip (I think GTS communicates this better than GT7). You tried to mask the snappy power oversteer problem by putting rear wing on the car, it kind of works but it will still kill you because of the unpredictable rear on off grip tyre physics in GT7.

other than that I've been trying many different FF, AWD, MR road cars these past few days and I find the FF cars to be the most fun cars to drive in GT7 because most of the driving tricks that I saw actuallly worked on the FF cars like the left foot braking and scandanavian flick.

So I tested in AC with the GT86 and it does something similar (other than it being nearly impossible to start a drift with a stock setup). I believe that is a just a physical trait.

You can see a similar flick at 2:55
Looks like it happens when lets off a bit on the throttle.

The wing is stock on the BRZ

I did another test with the GR 86 and maintained steering and throttle a little more


I wont speak too much on drifting since I haven't done much. But I think the take away is they improved on this aspect.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Some of the mid-engine Group 3 cars are still suffering from the same problems as they did in GT Sport. The Lamborghini Huracan and the Audi R8 are the worst offenders because they're always on a knife edge between staying on the track and spinning out. If you aren't careful you'll be caught out instantly. They'll either slide out from underneath you when you least expect it, give you a profuse amount of understeer or react too quickly to your input. It's very inconsistent.

 

[driftnick13]

So I tested in AC with the GT86 and it does something similar (other than it being nearly impossible to start a drift with a stock setup). I believe that is a just a physical trait.

Except it's not nearly impossible to start a drift on the stock setup, it's quite easy as you would expect it to be with the tyres it has.

You can see a similar flick at 2:55
Looks like it happens when lets off a bit on the throttle.

Looks and sounds like he completely lifts off while in your videos GT7 is doing weird crap where the rear tyres are still spinning under power but the car drives straight, that was also an issue in GT5 and GT6 drifting.

 

[extreme car]

So I tested in AC with the GT86 and it does something similar (other than it being nearly impossible to start a drift with a stock setup). I believe that is a just a physical trait.

Nope i never had any snappy power oversteer moments in AC with both RX7 and GT86 at high speed exit of corners unless I was being really stupid with them, even then they're both very predictable and smooth to drive in AC.

You can see a similar flick at 2:55
Looks like it happens when lets off a bit on the throttle.

I think he was trying to connect the drifts but failed, and also did you notice how easy it is to control his drift? you don't have to see saw the steering wheel like mad and be super delicate with throttle like in GT7 scared your rear tyre will suddenly lose all traction.

The wing is stock on the BRZ

ah didn't know that.

I did another test with the GR 86 and maintained steering and throttle a little more


I wont speak too much on drifting since I haven't done much. But I think the take away is they improved on this aspect.

I'm impressed that you're trying to understand my frustration with the rear wheel grip level and doing these tests unlike others here who just says git gud, it's so refreshing. You're probably right though about the physics after the last update, I can power oversteer quite safely through some high speed corners either that or I'm just getting used to the GT7 physics more (which is a bad thing cause I'm actually worried it'll effect how I drive IRL).

 

[Firestone]

Except it's not nearly impossible to start a drift on the stock setup, it's quite easy as you would expect it to be with the tyres it has.



Looks and sounds like he completely lifts off while in your videos GT7 is doing weird crap where the rear tyres are still spinning under power but the car drives straight, that was also an issue in GT5 and GT6 drifting.

In the video, the driver flicks the wheel to start a slide in 3rd gear. I could not get this to happen in AC with the eco tires, but this is possible in GT. The cars don't rotate in AC. You can go test this with the GT86. I flick the wheel and mash the throttle and the car just doesn't respond. AC does not get this right.

In GT, the car isn't driving straight, it's still sliding outward, albeit, pointing straight. Slip angle.

Nope i never had any snappy power oversteer moments in AC with both RX7 and GT86 at high speed exit of corners unless I was being really stupid with them, even then they're both very predictable and smooth to drive in AC.

I think he was trying to connect the drifts but failed, and also did you notice how easy it is to control his drift? you don't have to see saw the steering wheel like mad and be super delicate with throttle like in GT7 scared your rear tyre will suddenly lose all traction.

ah didn't know that.

I'm impressed that you're trying to understand my frustration with the rear wheel grip level and doing these tests unlike others here who just says git gud, it's so refreshing. You're probably right though about the physics after the last update, I can power oversteer quite safely through some high speed corners either that or I'm just getting used to the GT7 physics more (which is a bad thing cause I'm actually worried it'll effect how I drive IRL).

I'm having a harder time starting a drift in AC than in GT. I don't know, when I do get in a slide, it feels familiar. I do feel AC's feedback is not as abrupt as GT, but I feel like it's doing the same thing, but at different intensities. Maybe I'll try lighter feedback in GT to see how that works.

 

[extreme car]

In the video, the driver flicks the wheel to start a slide in 3rd gear. I could not get this to happen in AC with the eco tires, but this is possible in GT. The cars don't rotate in AC. You can go test this with the GT86. I flick the wheel and mash the throttle and the car just doesn't respond. AC does not get this right.

he clutch kicked the car to start the drift, notice how the rev goes up and he flicked it to the right to start the drift then flick it back to the left using weight transfer.

 

[Bangyo5758]

Hi, I am just curious if anyone feel the physics is not right in GT7 when using steering wheel? I am using T300 on PS5 and it's very difficult to control the car, also there is no feedback on kerbs and collisions. I thought it was my wheel, but I've tried using the wheel on other games (GT Sport, F1 2021) and it's working fine and feels great. At this moment I prefer to use the dualsense for GT7.