Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Scaff]

What I was trying to get at is there is devil in the details. Not scientific, nor are they vague examples of changes that people are experiencing and has been more obvious than not, like people observing a change of color. You play every day. Beats me how you are arguing against the modifications in the physics other than you arguing with be based on spite. You are a car control dynamicist, these changes should be very obvious to you more so than anyone else. It would be easier to prove if we can move back in release versions, but this is all we have.

I disagree, as do others, about an anecdotal claim that is just as likely confirmation bias and you claim its spite!

I mentioned lazy steering weeks ago. No goal post.

I wasn't replying to a post you made weeks ago, I was replying to one in which you claimed cars in AC don't rotate.

 

[Firestone]

I disagree, as do others, about an anecdotal claim that is just as likely confirmation bias and you claim its spite!


I wasn't replying to a post you made weeks ago, I was replying to one in which you claimed cars in AC don't rotate.

I really don't know what to say man other than not to believe you played the game from day one until now. Did you do the license test when the game first released and compared them to now? There are blatant distinct differences in the way the car handles. Go to the B License with the 370z around Tsukuba. The car understeers a lot more compared to before, with any trace of throttle it would launch into into oversteer.
Or the C7 Vette test around Willow Springs with carrying speed around turn 2. At game release, you would only be able to modulate at 25% throttle before the car gets upset, now you can carry with ~ 50-60%.
I've posted examples of being able to drift the car now, which others have found nearly impossible in the past, of which I've tested also. I didn't just magically find out how to get around the game's engine.
There are constant changes being made to the model.

And yes, in AC, the cars don't rotate upon turn in and tend to understeer a little too hard. The FRS should have pretty snappy steering, I don't get that sense from the game.

I can't get the car in this condition with 80-100% accelerator angle and steering angle. He's not doing anything else to get the car sideways. It's fairly easy to kick out the back end of these cars.

 

[Scaff]

I really don't know what to say man other than not to believe you played the game from day one until now. Did you do the license test when the game first released and compared them to now? There are blatant distinct differences in the way the car handles. Go to the B License with the 370z around Tsukuba. The car understeers a lot more compared to before, with any trace of throttle it would launch into into oversteer.
Or the C7 Vette test around Willow Springs with carrying speed around turn 2. At game release, you would only be able to modulate at 25% throttle before the car gets upset, now you can carry with ~ 50-60%.
I've posted examples of being able to drift the car now, which others have found nearly impossible in the past, of which I've tested also. I didn't just magically find out how to get around the game's engine.
There are constant changes being made to the model.

The changes have occurred in line with the updates that occurred, zero evidence exists for changes outside these.

And yes, in AC, the cars don't rotate upon turn in and tend to understeer a little too hard. The FRS should have pretty snappy steering, I don't get that sense from the game.

I can't get the car in this condition with 80-100% accelerator angle and steering angle. He's not doing anything else to get the car sideways. It's fairly easy to kick out the back end of these cars.

The default balance for road cars on turn in is understeer, OEMs deliberately engineer that it, but one again that wasn't your claim.

 

[JDMKING13]

I have given this some thought and noticed this as well, but has it ever been considered where the torque curve peaks. Up in the hi revs, the torque curve has already fallen off, so if your mid corner and hi in the gear your touching now on peak hp. If mid corner in a taller gear, it's likely your revs are in the 4500-5500 rpm range...typically the zone where most cars peak in torque. Hence if you throttle in at around that rpm range, your getting the full application of torque that the car can dish out while mid corner...not a good recipe. Have a look at any real road car on track or race car from in car, and notice how gradual the application of throttle is as they unwind the wheel. The more I drive GT7, the more I believe GTSport taught alot of bad habits of driving...ei, the throttle being used as an on/off switch. That's not to say that the rear tire physics couldn't use a little more polish, but I do think they are much farther in the right direction than gtsport ever was.

Me gradually hitting the throttle when coming out of turns has helped my driving in GT7 dramatically… I agree with you big time with GTS being just and on/off switch. Compared to GT7 where you actually need throttle control and skill and when you come out of a turn correct you can actually feel it the suspension and tires working together.

 

[MarrGuitar]

Today I thought I’d have another go at tuning to see if I can get some of my RWD cars to drive better. Didn’t have too much success to be honest.

But something I did notice is that adding a ballast towards the rear of the car seemed to make the on-throttle snapping a bit slower, more predictable and more correctable on corner exit. The extra weight over drive wheels helps to push the tyres into the ground. This was on an E30 M3 with full weight reduction, and in comparison with much heavier and more powerful cars, it was snapping much more suddenly. So my thinking was that there is something weird going on because maybe it is too light.

Even though it moved away from 50:50 weight distribution (not by much though), the rear ballast made it feel better to drive. Has anybody else noticed something similar in regards to the weight distribution of the cars?

I’ve seen a few comments mentioning issues with weight transfer, and I have to say that going over crests, even slight ones, can REALLY throw cars into a snap spin.

I initially thought that the physics issues were mainly with tyre grip but weight seems to be having a very odd effect as well.

 

[FA_Hayes]

I've said it before and it's more apparent today after more testing I believe there is a steering angle issue and I'm starting to think it's game related rather than hardware, but more people need to test it.

From the beginning steering felt a bit off on my DD1. now that I'm trying to get back to my competitive pace it's showing more.

I'll try to keep it short because long posts don't gain traction in this debatable thread but what I have to say causes issues we are seeing as we drive and how FFB communicates to us.

With my DD1 and GR3 using auto sensitivity per suggested initial input feels lazy although cockpit shows 10 to 30 degrees more rotation in game than on the wheel. Adjusting sensitivity to match helped but it was still there. Lazy input and the FFB almost felt delayed.

This made me think hardware or monitor. Verified my settings and my gear is good so today I tested the steering angle adapter from the tuning shop.

Crazy thing.... it changed everything on my end. Out of all the cars I tested the wheel now matches on auto too.

There is less of a dead zone at the top before you load the tire.

The car almost feels like rubber on the road.

FFB seems more "there" while being more predictable approaching limit.

Turn in is more responsive and it doesn't add more steering angle. It almost feels like it corrects an issue which is odd.

It also feels way more accurate and intuitive than setting sensitivity to match without the adapter.

So.. if there is a steering angle issue in game it explains alot. Actually quite alot. If anyone with other gear, especially non adjustable steering angle could do a test and report back we might be able to figure something out instead of debating.

Load up a GR3 in cockpit view, spin your wheel 180 and see if it matches with and without the steering adapter then report back.

 

[MarrGuitar]

I've said it before and it's more apparent today after more testing I believe there is a steering angle issue and I'm starting to think it's game related rather than hardware, but more people need to test it.

From the beginning steering felt a bit off on my DD1. now that I'm trying to get back to my competitive pace it's showing more.

I'll try to keep it short because long posts don't gain traction in this debatable thread but what I have to say causes issues we are seeing as we drive and how FFB communicates to us.

With my DD1 and GR3 using auto sensitivity per suggested initial input feels lazy although cockpit shows 10 to 30 degrees more rotation in game than on the wheel. Adjusting sensitivity to match helped but it was still there. Lazy input and the FFB almost felt delayed.

This made me think hardware or monitor. Verified my settings and my gear is good so today I tested the steering angle adapter from the tuning shop.

Crazy thing.... it changed everything on my end. Out of all the cars I tested the wheel now matches on auto too.

There is less of a dead zone at the top before you load the tire.

The car almost feels like rubber on the road.

FFB seems more "there" while being more predictable approaching limit.

Turn in is more responsive and it doesn't add more steering angle. It almost feels like it corrects an issue which is odd.

It also feels way more accurate and intuitive than setting sensitivity to match without the adapter.

So.. if there is a steering angle issue in game it explains alot. Actually quite alot. If anyone with other gear, especially non adjustable steering angle could do a test and report back we might be able to figure something out instead of debating.

Load up a GR3 in cockpit view, spin your wheel 180 and see if it matches with and without the steering adapter then report back.

I’ve been following this thread for a while. You’re not the first person to mention the steering angle adapter, which means there’s probably something going on with the steering angle as you mentioned.

This is definitely worth looking into, I will try it on a few cars when I next set my wheel up. Thanks for sharing

 

[Lalalalala]

To all, turn LSD torque down first. I can spin out even with minimal steering input (because the rear isn't even gripping the road), as the rear wheels lose traction way too quickly due to excessive torque, even at high gears. It is likely also why so many other tuning settings don't help much (ballast, rear wing, tires, steering, suspension, etc)

If I have to pick one change to make it feel better, I would ask PD to adjust/fix the torque.

 

[Skinny McLean]

With my DD1 and GR3 using auto sensitivity per suggested initial input feels lazy although cockpit shows 10 to 30 degrees more rotation in game than on the wheel. Adjusting sensitivity to match helped but it was still there. Lazy input and the FFB almost felt delayed.

All the cars I've tried have always been 1:1 on my Thrustmaster, both in cockpit and bumper cam (the range of the red dot corresponds to moving the wheel from -90° to 90°,) so that might be an issue with the Fanatec firmware (afaik "auto sensitivity" is a Fanatec setting meant to let the game set the lock angle.)

I agree on the FFB - it feels like it's fighting my counter steering. Steve Brown/"Super GT" observed the same and, like you, described it as feeling delayed.

 

[JDMKING13]

To all, turn LSD torque down first. I can spin out even with minimal steering input (because the rear isn't even gripping the road), as the rear wheels lose traction way too quickly due to excessive torque, even at high gears. It is likely also why so many other tuning settings don't help much (ballast, rear wing, tires, steering, suspension, etc)

If I have to pick one change to make it feel better, I would ask PD to adjust/fix the torque.

I am not having really any problems handling the cars at all but what I will say is PD uses some funky numbers with the alignment’s too… I been driving Ferrari’s for 3 weeks now old classics with no electronic aids modern classics with downgraded tires and the new super cars with electronic aids to help (tcs) I’m at a point. Now where I don’t need any aids to get 85% of the highpowerd super cars. For the old cars because they don’t have TCS, ASM or ABS I don’t use them at all. I try to keep it as close to real life as possible..

Every car in my league automatically gets a fully customizable suspension upgrade, the numbers go back to the stock default numbers expect for Camber/Toe these are the numbers I normally adjust, some of these numbers are way off.. I found pretty much all the stock alignment numbers for majority of the Ferrari’s. I also allow the cars to get fully customizable suspension because PD doesn’t the user to take advantage of the stock car capabilities. Take the Enzo for example… beside having different damping mode you can switch from, you can also lift the cars front end 3+ inches to surpass low entry, curbs, areas etc… Some cars allow you to adjust camber without buying aftermarket parts also… So this is the reason why I give all my stock cars suspension upgrades. I always test them stock first using PDs numbers then set them up for league play and the times are normally in the same range but I feel with the oem alignment numbers the cars feel a little better to drive.

 

[FA_Hayes]

All the cars I've tried have always been 1:1 on my Thrustmaster, both in cockpit and bumper cam (the range of the red dot corresponds to moving the wheel from -90° to 90°,) so that might be an issue with the Fanatec firmware (afaik "auto sensitivity" is a Fanatec setting meant to let the game set the lock angle.)

I agree on the FFB - it feels like it's fighting my counter steering. Steve Brown/"Super GT" observed the same and, like you, described it as feeling delayed.

Thanks for the feedback. I wanted a few other wheel users information before I post at the Fanatec forum. Even with auto letting the game set lock should visually match.

Super GT uses the same base as I and sensitivity at 360. Noticing at that rotation says there is an issue. I do all my testing at Green Hell and it's most noticeable in the first carousel

@MarrGuitar Thank you for checking good sir!

 

[Lion-Face]

Let me just preface that, I have the utmost respect for you as a driver Lion-Face. We raced together for a couple FIA seasons back in 2019 and you've always been one of the fastest, cleanest and smartest drivers in Oceania top split.

However, having a high skill level is masking the problems with GT7's physics for you. You regularly drove the oversteery 458 Gr.3 in GTS without any problems at all, whereas me and many other people struggle with it. So obviously your driving techniques are biased towards taming oversteer, which is perfect for GT7. You are not feeling any problems with GT7 because your body's own "internal" TCS/ASM is compensating for the physics deficiencies. Whereas me and other people need aids or tuning to compensate this, because we are not as skilled for that last 1-2% of driving on the limit.

IRL, GT3 race cars are a long way from widowmaker race cars of the 60s or 70s. They are inherently designed to be easy to drive on the limit for gentlemen drivers. With some training, anyone can get within a few seconds of the top guys. The hard part, and why the pro drivers are paid to do what they do, is to extract those last 1-2 seconds. But anything below that, the cars should still be fast and easy to drive.

Like this guy, who drove like an absolute idiot, still manages to keep the car pointing forwards even after so many off track excursions and general rough driving. If he's driving in GTS, he would've spun more than the one time he did IRL. If he's driving in GT7, he wouldn't even make it past the first corner!


Even Tidgney, who has no problems handling the R8 LMS in GTS (even taking it to the Manufacturer Finals), is having problems with the R8 Evo in GT7. Which is crazy because the Evo has been developed IRL specifically to address the oversteery nature of the original R8 LMS! Driving both cars back to back in ACC shows this clearly, but not GT. The only way you'll tame it is with less grippy front tyres and downforce min front/max rear.


Honestly, if I were Kaz, I'd tell Akihiko Tan to take a holiday and just buy the Kunos physics engine and never touch it again. If you've been working on something for 25 years and still not getting the correct results, it's time to admit you're not good enough and look elsewhere.

Thank you for your kind words.

I do not believe my skill level is masking the problems as I feel the same problems as everyone else.

When the car steps out or does something unexpected, I look at it as though that is the cars limit. Take the Gr.3 458 for example, it was doing things I wasn't expecting nor had problems with in GT Sport. I just figured I was doing something wrong because the car is spinning, stepping out or whatever. So I repeat the same corners, try a different approach see what the result was. Rinse and repeat to understand where the cars limits are and what I can and cannot do. If the car was unpredictable, then I wouldn't be able to move forward with it and set better and better lap times. I also get very frustrated with games which are random and take the control out of your hands. If that were to be the case with GT7, I wouldn't continue to play it.

I also think the cars need to be driven a lot smoother compared to previous GT games, and I feel the ABS users are suffering the most, as you can abuse ABS Default settings pretty hard in terms of entering a corner incorrectly and unsettling the car. The ABS masks this until it becomes a problem after you release the brakes and start to put the power down. Myself and @PirovacBoy are having less issues with the cars, and we use No ABS and ABS weak respectfully. So it makes me wonder, because we are used to having to respect the car balance a lot more entering the corner, we are inherently more stable through and out of the corners. You can of course use ABS Default, don't get me wrong, but maybe it is masking some of the problems people are having and they are not seeing the issue is with corner entry and feel it is all corner exit. Just a theory.

Tigney's video is interesting, as there shows a bit of a disconnect between two modes of gameplay and he had no explanation as to why, nor did he do a lot of investigating. There seems to be an issue between Time Trial mode for the Sport Practice and Sport mode itself. This is probably a separate issue, as I don't think people are complaining about the handling in just one particular mode, but with the game overall.

 

[SkyHigh]

Thank you for your kind words.

I do not believe my skill level is masking the problems as I feel the same problems as everyone else.

When the car steps out or does something unexpected, I look at it as though that is the cars limit. Take the Gr.3 458 for example, it was doing things I wasn't expecting nor had problems with in GT Sport. I just figured I was doing something wrong because the car is spinning, stepping out or whatever. So I repeat the same corners, try a different approach see what the result was. Rinse and repeat to understand where the cars limits are and what I can and cannot do. If the car was unpredictable, then I wouldn't be able to move forward with it and set better and better lap times. I also get very frustrated with games which are random and take the control out of your hands. If that were to be the case with GT7, I wouldn't continue to play it.

I also think the cars need to be driven a lot smoother compared to previous GT games, and I feel the ABS users are suffering the most, as you can abuse ABS Default settings pretty hard in terms of entering a corner incorrectly and unsettling the car. The ABS masks this until it becomes a problem after you release the brakes and start to put the power down. Myself and @PirovacBoy are having less issues with the cars, and we use No ABS and ABS weak respectfully. So it makes me wonder, because we are used to having to respect the car balance a lot more entering the corner, we are inherently more stable through and out of the corners. You can of course use ABS Default, don't get me wrong, but maybe it is masking some of the problems people are having and they are not seeing the issue is with corner entry and feel it is all corner exit. Just a theory.

Tigney's video is interesting, as there shows a bit of a disconnect between two modes of gameplay and he had no explanation as to why, nor did he do a lot of investigating. There seems to be an issue between Time Trial mode for the Sport Practice and Sport mode itself. This is probably a separate issue, as I don't think people are complaining about the handling in just one particular mode, but with the game overall.

ABS weak>>>>

 

[PirovacBoy]

@Lion-Face and @LeGeNd-1 first of all I want to make one thing clear.
From my observations driving and testing some of the MR Gr3 Cars I can definitely say that the Abs Default Setting is the most drivable in GT7.
ABS default 100% masks the corner entry phase and because of its built in Stability Enhancement @JDMKING13 noticed and mentioned it too, makes it more forgiving driving some GR3 MR Cars.
Especially the 458 which I know inside out.
I drove it religiously for 4 years every single Manufacturers Season In GTS, and although Lion managed to make it go a bit quicker than me, I think we both know the Car and it’s Characteristics very well and therefore know exactly where its Limits are or should be.
The big difference lies 100% in the the way ABS is being used or abused.
When driving with ABS weak, it’s much more precision you have to put in.
There seems to be no synchronization between the Faster Spinning Tires and the slower spinning tires.
Paired with the very light Rear axle Nature in the 458, it makes it much more necessary to be very cautious and smooth with the transition easing off the brake and getting on the power in a very smooth transition.
This “dance“ is what made me fell in love with the 458, the agility and absolute precision required to keep the Car balanced while trying to drive it fast.
It was never a Problem to drive the 458 safely but pushing it was a constant ride on the edge of a Knife.

And yes I must agree that under the current Physics it has become even more obvious.
The Level in Skill required to drive the 458 with its Stock LSD Settings is even harder in GT7 and more unpredictable, or let’s say more confusing.
At least with ABS set to weak.
On default it’s a completely other Story.
Just today i was doing some more in depth driving especially with the 458 but also with the Huracan GR3 and the Audi GR3.

And I most honestly say that with the current default Settings these Cars are not enjoyable.
It’s beyond me why PD thought it might be a good decision to set the LSD Settings the way they are but I don’t enjoy them trying to drive them on the edge. Below, it’s all fine no problem but as soon as you push them in a competitive Manner they simply become way to punishing.

To conclude my Write up, I hope and pray to the Gods at PD that they hear us and Adresse those issues.
Those Cars are Scalpels which are meant to be driven with Precision and I’m still willing to put my time into them and further develop my Skills but its unpredictability is just so off putting that I decided to stay away from them until hopefully they fix it.

As much as i Love the 458 or the Lambo, but PDs‘ Iteration is highly incorrect.
Those Cars shouldn’t and don’t behave the way they do in GT7 compared to their real World Counterparts.
And that currently just makes me sad.
But no worries I already found some new “Girls“.
You know, other Mothers have nice Daughters too 😅
I love to use German Phrases and translating them word for word in English.
I don’t even want to imagine how Stupid it must Sound 😂
Have a good one Men 💪🏻

 

[Skinny McLean]

@Lion-Face All this patronising drivel is getting tiresome. Most people are complaining about GT7's tyre physics because something's clearly wrong with it, not because they can't control the cars or "don't respect the cars' balance." In GT7 you have to drive like you are walking on egg shells, which isn't my kind of fun - I'm currently back to heel-and-toeing in the other sims (with a smile on my face) instead of tip-toeing around in GT7's weird take on physics.

 

[dabz343]

If anyone with other gear, especially non adjustable steering angle could do a test and report back we might be able to figure something out instead of debating.

Thrustmaster TGT registers 1:1, tested on multiple Gr3s.

 

[Lalalalala]

It's clear that the ones who don't acknowledge the problems are the ones who are very experienced in Gran Turismo, and are able to drive/adapt around the issues that many here are experiencing. They don't see any issues because they don't go over the limit (even if it's a higher limit than any average players would be able to achieve), and since they don't go over the limit they don't experience the snap oversteer that we experience, hence why they kept telling everyone to drive within the limit. Average players go over the limit all the time. The issue is that yes we shouldn't go over the limit, but it should not mean instant spin out to death if we do. In real life, a lot of the times (not all) the driver would be able to recover, stop the spin, and continue. The resulting punishment would be a ruined lap, not a totalled car (no real damaged model in GT7 but you get my point). This is not the case in GT7 where almost every time you lose traction from oversteer, it snaps the car into the barrier with no real way of saving the slide/spin. Counter steering just spin you the other way, or makes it worse.

This does not preclude the reason of the issue in the first place on why the cars behave this way (which I think it's due to exaggerated torque inputs)

 

[Lion-Face]

@Lion-Face All this patronising drivel is getting tiresome. Most people are complaining about GT7's tyre physics because something's clearly wrong with it, not because they can't control the cars or "don't respect the cars' balance." In GT7 you have to drive like you are walking on egg shells, which isn't my kind of fun - I'm currently back to heel-and-toeing in the other sims (with a smile on my face) instead of tip-toeing around in GT7's weird take on physics.

I'm sorry you feel this way, I do not intend to come across patronizing or condescending. i am trying to offer a different point of view of the issues players are having and give ideas or thoughts from my perspective, which may help someone enjoy the game more.

 

[dabz343]

I do not intend to come across patronizing or condescending. i am trying to offer a different point of view of the issues players are having and give ideas or thoughts from my perspective, which may help someone enjoy the game more.

Good on you...same here. By the time we reach 200 pages, I recon PD should pay us for beta testing.

 

[JDMKING13]

It's clear that the ones who don't acknowledge the problems are the ones who are very experienced in Gran Turismo, and are able to drive/adapt around the issues that many here are experiencing. They don't see any issues because they don't go over the limit (even if it's a higher limit than any average players would be able to achieve), and since they don't go over the limit they don't experience the snap oversteer that we experience, hence why they kept telling everyone to drive within the limit. Average players go over the limit all the time. The issue is that yes we shouldn't go over the limit, but it should not mean instant spin out to death if we do. In real life, a lot of the times (not all) the driver would be able to recover, stop the spin, and continue. The resulting punishment would be a ruined lap, not a totalled car (no real damaged model in GT7 but you get my point). This is not the case in GT7 where almost every time you lose traction from oversteer, it snaps the car into the barrier with no real way of saving the slide/spin. Counter steering just spin you the other way, or makes it worse.

This does not preclude the reason of the issue in the first place on why the cars behave this way (which I think it's due to exaggerated torque inputs)

I’m sorry man but I just don’t understand what you mean how we don’t go over the limit. I have spun out plenty of times, and actually do league racing on GTP with very fast drivers! There’s no way your goin to place top three with out driving on the limit and some times exceeding it.

Do you drive with abs off? Or weak? Tcs off, ASM off? I pretty much downgraded all stock tires on the cars I drive and while yes they can get slippery with countsteer and throttle modulation you can easily save most of the slides. Yes I still occasionally spin out which I can respect, driving these cars at a high pace should be a challenge and I think GT7 is reasonable when is come to driving … perfect not in a long shot but it’s the best driving in GT era in my opinion.

After this last update the feedback has improved for the best and I hope they keep dialing it in! GT7 definitely gives me AC vibes (console version) which I can appreciate. I have said it before it would be nice if people who are having major problems post a video…

 

[Lalalalala]

I’m sorry man but I just don’t understand what you mean how we don’t go over the limit. I have spun out plenty of times, and actually do league racing on GTP with very fast drivers! There’s no way your goin to place top three with out driving on the limit and some times exceeding it.

Do you drive with abs off? Or weak? Tcs off, ASM off? I pretty much downgraded all stock tires on the cars I drive and while yes they can get slippery with countsteer and throttle modulation you can easily save most of the slides. Yes I still occasionally spin out which I can respect, driving these cars at a high pace should be a challenge and I think GT7 is reasonable when is come to driving … perfect not in a long shot but it’s the best driving in GT era in my opinion.

After this last update the feedback has improved for the best and I hope they keep dialing it in! GT7 definitely gives me AC vibes (console version) which I can appreciate. I have said it before it would be nice if people who are having major problems post a video…

It's good that you finally acknowledged that you actually spin out because thus far you have simply said you don't experience any snap oversteers.

Since you acknowledge that you actually spin out, now the question becomes how often should it happen. To many, it's with stock (and some race) FR cars at unpredictable times, and is this that we feel not representative of real life.

 

[Td04]

@Lion-Face and @LeGeNd-1 first of all I want to make one thing clear.
From my observations driving and testing some of the MR Gr3 Cars I can definitely say that the Abs Default Setting is the most drivable in GT7.
ABS default 100% masks the corner entry phase and because of its built in Stability Enhancement @JDMKING13 noticed and mentioned it too, makes it more forgiving driving some GR3 MR Cars.
Especially the 458 which I know inside out.
I drove it religiously for 4 years every single Manufacturers Season In GTS, and although Lion managed to make it go a bit quicker than me, I think we both know the Car and it’s Characteristics very well and therefore know exactly where its Limits are or should be.
The big difference lies 100% in the the way ABS is being used or abused.
When driving with ABS weak, it’s much more precision you have to put in.
There seems to be no synchronization between the Faster Spinning Tires and the slower spinning tires.
Paired with the very light Rear axle Nature in the 458, it makes it much more necessary to be very cautious and smooth with the transition easing off the brake and getting on the power in a very smooth transition.
This “dance“ is what made me fell in love with the 458, the agility and absolute precision required to keep the Car balanced while trying to drive it fast.
It was never a Problem to drive the 458 safely but pushing it was a constant ride on the edge of a Knife.

And yes I must agree that under the current Physics it has become even more obvious.
The Level in Skill required to drive the 458 with its Stock LSD Settings is even harder in GT7 and more unpredictable, or let’s say more confusing.
At least with ABS set to weak.
On default it’s a completely other Story.
Just today i was doing some more in depth driving especially with the 458 but also with the Huracan GR3 and the Audi GR3.

And I most honestly say that with the current default Settings these Cars are not enjoyable.
It’s beyond me why PD thought it might be a good decision to set the LSD Settings the way they are but I don’t enjoy them trying to drive them on the edge. Below, it’s all fine no problem but as soon as you push them in a competitive Manner they simply become way to punishing.

To conclude my Write up, I hope and pray to the Gods at PD that they hear us and Adresse those issues.
Those Cars are Scalpels which are meant to be driven with Precision and I’m still willing to put my time into them and further develop my Skills but its unpredictability is just so off putting that I decided to stay away from them until hopefully they fix it.

As much as i Love the 458 or the Lambo, but PDs‘ Iteration is highly incorrect.
Those Cars shouldn’t and don’t behave the way they do in GT7 compared to their real World Counterparts.
And that currently just makes me sad.
But no worries I already found some new “Girls“.
You know, other Mothers have nice Daughters too 😅
I love to use German Phrases and translating them word for word in English.
I don’t even want to imagine how Stupid it must Sound 😂
Have a good one Men 💪🏻

On GTS the 458 ,but even others, are Simply wrong.. if you push hard your throttle in mid corner on a Low Gear,It Will understeer like a FF.
If you search some video irl you Will see that the car Is quite tail happy. On gt7 at least it oversteer like It should,just it is too much violent.

 

[RacingFan1]

I'm really enjoying the new physics overall, however I really don't get the behavior of some FF cars.

VW Scirocco, I think it has 61-39 weight distribution... However it oversteers like crazy on braking, I think that makes no sense whatsoever. 😵

Had to tune it with suspension and brake balance to fix it. I'd be amazed if the car IRL behaved anywhere close like that on braking lol

 

[FA_Hayes]

Thrustmaster TGT registers 1:1, tested on multiple Gr3s.

Awesome. Thank you.

That's 2 TM wheels with out an issue.

 

[JDMKING13]

It's good that you finally acknowledged that you actually spin out because thus far you have simply said you don't experience any snap oversteers.

Since you acknowledge that you actually spin out, now the question becomes how often should it happen. To many, it's with stock (and some race) FR cars at unpredictable times, and is this that we feel not representative of real life.

This is not the first time I have said I have got loose or spun and I have posted many videos of me driving with stock or less tires getting loose and catching slides … vs you and others have said words… words that I’m supposed to just believe because you and others are just writing… where is the video of you experiencing this?? Obviously your not taking what I’m saying serious so why should I especially with no videos to back up your claims?

I have said it many times the times I spin the car or lose it bad it when I use GTS throttle inputs or the car is off balance and I push it… if I drive smooth and clean I get good results if I drive sloppy and careless I can spin the car I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Td04]

I'm really enjoying the new physics overall, however I really don't get the behavior of some FF cars.

VW Scirocco, I think it has 61-39 weight distribution... However it oversteers like crazy on braking, I think that makes no sense whatsoever. 😵

Had to tune it with suspension and brake balance to fix it. I'd be amazed if the car IRL behaved anywhere close like that on braking lol

It is normal that a FF car can oversteer on braking. You are loading much weight on the front,and the rear is very light. Push hard on your brake on straight line to keep the front stable. A soft brake at high speed,while you steering will make the car oversteer

 

[JDMKING13]

It is normal that a FF car can oversteer on braking. You are loading much weight on the front,and the rear is very light. Push hard on your brake on straight line to keep the front stable. A soft brake at high speed,while you steering will make the car oversteer

In GTS I had to put lesser tires on rear of all the FWD cars in my league so the cars would oversteer.. it was just terrible how they were represented in GTS.

 

[RacingFan1]

It is normal that a FF car can oversteer on braking. You are loading much weight on the front,and the rear is very light. Push hard on your brake on straight line to keep the front stable. A soft brake at high speed,while you steering will make the car oversteer

So, that's exactly what makes no sense to me. The rear being very light means it won't go away and displace the car from the rear end, and instead it should understeer. It's basic physics, not that I'm a physicist but the basics are understandable.
On the other hand for example an old Porsche 911 with a lot of weight at the back its far more prone to oversteer.

 

[Td04]

In GTS I had to put lesser tires on rear of all the FWD cars in my league so the cars would oversteer.. it was just terrible how they were represented in GTS.

GTS physics is totally terribile. People who think is better than 7,should go back to it and replay it for a while.. i am sure that many will change idea.

 

[JDMKING13]

So, that's exactly what makes no sense to me. The rear being very light means it won't go away and dispace the car from behind and instead it should understeer. It's basic physics, not that I'm a physicist but the basicas are understandable.
On the other hand for example an old Porsche 911 with a lot of weight at the back its far more prone to oversteer.

He not wrong man I turned off all the electronic aids on my civic SI once.. I was coming down a sweeper hit the brakes mid turn and spun the car.. I almost had a heart attack man.. it was scary as heck to just feel the rear go light and just spin