Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT

  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
Hobson
I'd have to agree with it being harder on controller right now than the wheel. Doing anything smooth and fast on a controller is ridiculous with how much steering filtering is being applied behind the scenes.

Doing the Suzuka East daily race is frustrating to put it lightly. I'm watching the wheel users utilize all of the available steering while I'm waiting light-years for my car to hit full lock regardless of sensitivity.
Only half baked solution I found is to chuck it into corners on 0 sensitivity, and pray. Best time I got is a 1:06.6 and it's killing me because I know what to do/how to do it but I'm falling flat due to precision steering
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The thing that brought it home for me was driving the De Tomaso Mangusta in a private lobby with a suspension setup that @unfairlane kindly gave me. It made the car easier to slide without snapping, but the turn-in is still non-existent. I paused half-way through a corner, and noticed that the autopilot applied twice as much lock, and hey-presto, the car turns in just fine. So basically driving on controller limits the amount of lock that can be applied. I don't understand why all these problems never existed in GTSport. I never drove a car and thought "is the steering wheel actually attached to the car?"

The worst car I've driven yet is the BMW 3.0 CS (not the batmobile). I've had it on Sports Soft tyres, full weight reduction and several different set-ups, and it doesn't turn at all. Better still, I still can't save powerslides. I'm at a complete loss on this game. I've never had to ask other people how to make cars driveable before, let alone competitive.
 
Hobson
I'd have to agree with it being harder on controller right now than the wheel. Doing anything smooth and fast on a controller is ridiculous with how much steering filtering is being applied behind the scenes.

Doing the Suzuka East daily race is frustrating to put it lightly. I'm watching the wheel users utilize all of the available steering while I'm waiting light-years for my car to hit full lock regardless of sensitivity.
Only half baked solution I found is to chuck it into corners on 0 sensitivity, and pray. Best time I got is a 1:06.6 and it's killing me because I know what to do/how to do it but I'm falling flat due to precision steering
Click to expand...
Have you guys tried stick extensions for the steering joystick? I've had one on my controller for years and it makes a huge difference in how sensitive you can be and how easy it is to hold a certain angle. For me there are still some missions, drifting mostly, where the controller is the only option for gold, and that's because I can hammer the stick back and forth lock to lock and constantly adjust the fronts to keep the car stable. I'm still 99.9% wheel but, to me, the controller still holds some little advantages over the wheel.

Aside from that specifically, I had a GREAT couple hours in GT7 today finally tuning the 997 GT3 into a great handling car with the use of 150lbs ballast at the front and taking the diff to min on all settings. Very neutral and poseable, and doesn't want to kill me anymore. Very fulfilling! And then after winning the AMG C63S, threw my "standard parts" on it (sport pads, diff, SH tires, steering angle kit) and what an amazing thing! Very pliable, very planted on stock suspension, very easy to hold angle, and just all around a fun to drive car. Took the diff down to min settings, then back up to 10 across the board to get the rear to step out a little sooner. Its strange to be dialing in MORE oversteer in this game, but the C63S is just a great car.

GENERAL HANDLING RECOMMENDATION

I'd suggest everyone start with at the very least the custom diff and steering angle kit on pretty much any car. Take all those diff settings down to 5, then test the car out and bump up your accel and braking sensitivity until it is as oversteery as you like, then go from there!

I don't know what the actual intention of the angle kit is as I don't think it "adds" more angle like IRL, but it definitely seems to make the steering on a wheel more progressive away from center, and quicker than without it. Definitely easier to modulate oversteer on a wheel with it for me. I add it to every car now.
 
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lbpomg95
The thing that brought it home for me was driving the De Tomaso Mangusta in a private lobby with a suspension setup that @unfairlane kindly gave me. It made the car easier to slide without snapping, but the turn-in is still non-existent. I paused half-way through a corner, and noticed that the autopilot applied twice as much lock, and hey-presto, the car turns in just fine. So basically driving on controller limits the amount of lock that can be applied. I don't understand why all these problems never existed in GTSport. I never drove a car and thought "is the steering wheel actually attached to the car?"

The worst car I've driven yet is the BMW 3.0 CS (not the batmobile). I've had it on Sports Soft tyres, full weight reduction and several different set-ups, and it doesn't turn at all. Better still, I still can't save powerslides. I'm at a complete loss on this game. I've never had to ask other people how to make cars driveable before, let alone competitive.
Click to expand...
I know the feeling a bit too well. I've been running tests trying to figure out what and the **** is going on with the steering. I have an absurd amount of time testing/tuning/crashing at the Nurburgring and all I can say is who decided this steering was better VS Sport? 😂😂

Honestly in-between the lack of steering/weird throttle control and grip or die tire physics, I'm at a loss.
 
LSFDRX
Have you guys tried stick extensions for the steering joystick? I've had one on my controller for years and it makes a huge difference in how sensitive you can be and how easy it is to hold a certain angle. For me there are still some missions, drifting mostly, where the controller is the only option for gold, and that's because I can hammer the stick back and forth lock to lock and constantly adjust the fronts to keep the car stable. I'm still 99.9% wheel but, to me, the controller still holds some little advantages over the wheel.

Aside from that specifically, I had a GREAT couple hours in GT7 today finally tuning the 997 GT3 into a great handling car with the use of 150lbs ballast at the front and taking the diff to min on all settings. Very neutral and poseable, and doesn't want to kill me anymore. Very fulfilling! And then after winning the AMG C63S, threw my "standard parts" on it (sport pads, diff, SH tires, steering angle kit) and what an amazing thing! Very pliable, very planted on stock suspension, very easy to hold angle, and just all around a fun to drive car. Took the diff down to min settings, then back up to 10 across the board to get the rear to step out a little sooner. Its strange to be dialing in MORE oversteer in this game, but the C63S is just a great car.

GENERAL HANDLING RECOMMENDATION

I'd suggest everyone start with at the very least the custom diff and steering angle kit on pretty much any car. Take all those diff settings down to 5, then test the car out and bump up your accel and braking sensitivity until it is as oversteery as you like, then go from there!
Click to expand...

I haven't needed thumb sticks for any GT game since they came out, and I think putting one on would annihilate my muscle memory. I came from drifting only on GT5-6 to racing only on Sport - 7 and I just prefer the regular thumb sticks tbh.
The steering angle kit and the diff settings are good advice, I've been using them since day one.
-Does it feel like it's changing the caster up front? That was my initial thought when I put the steering angle kit on

Wanna test an RX7 around the ring for me? Would be interesting to see the steering input difference on the same tune.

P.S It's on Sports Hards so It might be a headache (That's the only tires I drive on unless I'm drifting or in a racecar)
 
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Just throwing this out there, but I purchased and installed Project Cars 2 on my PC. On initial play it felt horrid. Like the cars were boats.

I then downloaded a custom FFB mod and it was a whole new game. The driving became intuitive and fun.

Maybe what GT7 lacks is proper FFB? I have to admit there isn't a whole lot of FFB in GT7 compared to other games.
 
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It seems easy start a slide,as in best motoring video,with these Cars. Same with other cars.
I know It Is an unpopoualr opinion,but Ac isn't so much good like you claim.
And i tryed to weight transfer 4c, start understeering then lift off and throttle again.. It just understeer. I recorded a video, if someone don't belive. It is no near as the real video i posted about Marchettino.

Ac and gt have both their flaws. Which one doing better is just an opinion. For example I am reading on this thread that ffb on Ac Is better cause more detailed, but i find It so annoying and i prefer the more flat GT One.
Even about weight transfer,i feel more disconeccted on Ac.
Sometimes when i read some opinions i am like "wtf, are we playing the same games"? But at the end i guess is normal. "Feel" the physics through a monitor,at best with a toy Wheel, Is something very subjective.
I hated so much gtsport physics. I like much gt7 one,i hope they will fix the sudden oversteer (at high speed corner expeccially),but overall is good.
 
Td04


It seems easy start a slide,as in best motoring video,with these Cars. Same with other cars.
I know It Is an unpopoualr opinion,but Ac isn't so much good like you claim.
And i tryed to weight transfer 4c, start understeering then lift off and throttle again.. It just understeer. I recorded a video, if someone don't belive. It is no near as the real video i posted about Marchettino.

Ac and gt have both their flaws. Which one doing better is just an opinion. For example I am reading on this thread that ffb on Ac Is better cause more detailed, but i find It so annoying and i prefer the more flat GT One.
Even about weight transfer,i feel more disconeccted on Ac.
Sometimes when i read some opinions i am like "wtf, are we playing the same games"? But at the end i guess is normal. "Feel" the physics through a monitor,at best with a toy Wheel, Is something very subjective.
I hated so much gtsport physics. I like much gt7 one,i hope they will fix the sudden oversteer (at high speed corner expeccially),but overall is good.
Click to expand...

I'm with you. I love both GT and ACC, even though they do things slightly differently. I also loved GT Sport at the time, but with the benefit of hindsight and having played GT7, GT7 feels much more "alive" and realistic to me. Yes the snap oversteer can be a bit of a pain, but it's still more realistic than every car understeering no matter how hard you turn into a corner.

In particular, you can feel the tyres moving around under you more in GT7, whereas the tyres felt like they were solid in GT Sport. I suspect the oversteer issue has something to do with the new tyre model - something I'm sure PD can work on.
 
Hobson
I haven't needed thumb sticks for any GT game since they came out, and I think putting one on would annihilate my muscle memory. I came from drifting only on GT5-6 to racing only on Sport - 7 and I just prefer the regular thumb sticks tbh.
The steering angle kit and the diff settings are good advice, I've been using them since day one.
-Does it feel like it's changing the caster up front? That was my initial thought when I put the steering angle kit on

Wanna test an RX7 around the ring for me? Would be interesting to see the steering input difference on the same tune.

P.S It's on Sports Hards so It might be a headache (That's the only tires I drive on unless I'm drifting or in a racecar)
Click to expand...
I've found that after I started using the extensions every controller after that felt weird, but I don't play a lot of games and the ones I do are usually car based.

You might be onto something with it changing the caster, much like one would add to a drift car to facilitate the steering having an easier time honing in on opposite lock, but I'm not exactly sure. All I know is that with the angle kit the cars seem more forgiving past traction. It doesn't even really feel like the FFB is more attuned to matching slip angle, but like the steering allows for more of a "safe zone" where you can modulate throttle and hold that slide. I had some really rewarding moments in the C63S today that were a blast.

I'm not sure what you would like me to test, but I'm game for it! I have an FD IRL so of course it's one of the first builds I did on 7! Its a 610ish PP 390hp widebody with the angle kit, SS tires, LSD, suspension... yadda yadda. It took a long time to get it dialed in in a way that allowed for it to be playful AND not be a snappy killer, and I'm still playing with it, but it's pretty close. If there is something you'd like to see that I can help with I'm willing to give it a shot. Sport hards are fine most of the time, I just prefer the feel of the softs as I think they perform more like a modern ultra-high performance tire should, but it doesn't take but a moment to change things up and see what the results are!

Let me know.

IMG_1294.jpg
 
Lalalalala


Video on default set up being horrific to drive
Click to expand...

Yep, it's one thing for us to learn to tune in this game... not using real life knowledge but instead the "new" language of GT based physics, but it's A WHOLE OTHER THING when all the work you've done to make say, your Audi LMS car just drive only for that same car to be nerfed by the BOP settings.

BOP used to work great in Sport because none of the Gr4/Gr3 cars were undrivable monsters, it allowed for preferences and the occasional OP car for a race, but now that tuning is essential to getting any real performance out of some cars, BOP will basically eliminate them from the roster, leading to fields full of cars that perform well stock. This will produce Gr4 races with only Atenzas, and Gr3 fields full of RCZs... not much else.

I think similarly to Doughinator on this one, there should be:
Daily A: personal/road cars with tuning
Daily B: Gr4 BOP
Daily C: Gr3 BOP
Daily D: Gr4 tuning
Daily E: Gr3 tuning

...or something similar to that. Make something for everyone, include road/tuner cars, embrace race car tuning AND BOP preferences, and not go back and forth over time.
 
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LSFDRX
I've found that after I started using the extensions every controller after that felt weird, but I don't play a lot of games and the ones I do are usually car based.

You might be onto something with it changing the caster, much like one would add to a drift car to facilitate the steering having an easier time honing in on opposite lock, but I'm not exactly sure. All I know is that with the angle kit the cars seem more forgiving past traction. It doesn't even really feel like the FFB is more attuned to matching slip angle, but like the steering allows for more of a "safe zone" where you can modulate throttle and hold that slide. I had some really rewarding moments in the C63S today that were a blast.

I'm not sure what you would like me to test, but I'm game for it! I have an FD IRL so of course it's one of the first builds I did on 7! Its a 610ish PP 390hp widebody with the angle kit, SS tires, LSD, suspension... yadda yadda. It took a long time to get it dialed in in a way that allowed for it to be playful AND not be a snappy killer, and I'm still playing with it, but it's pretty close. If there is something you'd like to see that I can help with I'm willing to give it a shot. Sport hards are fine most of the time, I just prefer the feel of the softs as I think they perform more like a modern ultra-high performance tire should, but it doesn't take but a moment to change things up and see what the results are!

Let me know.

View attachment 1134331
Click to expand...
The only thing I'm trying to test is whether or not you can get this boat to turn at medium/high speed turns without having having to use a bunch of footwork like I do on the controller. I get heavy understeer in the first two corners at the ring, and it's a mild game of life or death after that 😂😂

I'll send the photos by PM
 
Tenacious D
Well, it depends on the car and the tires.
Click to expand...

ScottPye20
This is true in some circumstances but not all.
Click to expand...
True, not all cars are awful - even some of the RWD are OK. It was the "git gud" idea I wanted to address.
Td04
It seems easy start a slide,as in best motoring video,with these Cars. Same with other cars.
I know It Is an unpopoualr opinion,but Ac isn't so much good like you claim.
And i tryed to weight transfer 4c, start understeering then lift off and throttle again.. It just understeer. I recorded a video, if someone don't belive. It is no near as the real video i posted about Marchettino.
Click to expand...
In AC both the 4C and the GT86 comes with factory TC enabled - try disabling that, because it sounds like you haven't done that. They are also both fitted with semi-slicks by default, so if disabling the TC isn't enough, put some street tyres on instead. I have tested both of them (in the PC version, though) and the GT86 will over-steer even in 3rd gear if you want it to.
 
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LSFDRX
I don't know what the actual intention of the angle kit is as I don't think it "adds" more angle like IRL, but it definitely seems to make the steering on a wheel more progressive away from center, and quicker than without it. Definitely easier to modulate oversteer on a wheel with it for me. I add it to every car now.
Click to expand...


For posterity the steering angle kit changes GR3 carsb o about 900 degrees opposed to 530 to 560 depending on car as tested on my DD1.

It also removes it if BOP is on.
 
Skinny McLean
True, not all cars are awful - even some of the RWD are OK. It was the "git gud" idea I wanted to address.

In AC both the 4C and the GT86 comes with factory TC enabled - try disabling that, because it sounds like you haven't done that. They are also both fitted with semi-slicks by default, so if disabling the TC isn't enough, put some street tyres on instead. I have tested both of them (in the PC version, though) and the GT86 will over-steer even in 3rd gear if you want it to.
Click to expand...
I tryed with TCS and esp Off on street tires.
I think the ps4 version ,the one i have, Is different from the PC One.
Scaff posted a video about a 4c irl vs AC, and the game looks so good there (PC version)
 
The 2nd turn on Red Bull Ring(after long straight) and last turn on Spa before finish line are clear examples of something being really wrong with steering angle/snap oversteer.

This game just needs better force feedback on wheel and it would be amazing.
 
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GT7 physics are designed around the controller first and steering wheel second as most of their users are on controller, it seems in GT7 they have gone even harder on this because the FFB, canned effects and wheel behaviour in general is just bad for 2022. The cars are behaving bizarrely in GT7, especially on street tyres. The race dry tyres aren't as bad (in dry conditions) but the sports and comfort tyres are just really rubbish in terms of realism.
They need to just take "the real driving simulator" off their logo and then we would be cool, calling this a Sim in 2022 is like calling GTA5 a city driving simulation. Yeah... But nah..
 
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ApexGun
GT7 physics are designed around the controller first and steering wheel second and most of their users are on controller, it seems in GT7 they have gone even harder on this because the FFB, canned effects and wheel behaviour in general is just bad for 2022. The cars are behaving bizarrely in GT7, especially on street tyres. The race dry tyres aren't as bad (in dry conditions) but the sports and comfort tyres are just really rubbish in terms of realism.
They need to just take "the real driving simulator" off their logo and then we would be cool, calling this a Sim in 2022 is like calling GTA5 a city driving simulation. Yeah... But nah..
Click to expand...
I know where you’re coming from but I imagine GT Sport was also designed around the controller first and the wheel second.

I’m going to go ahead and say it though… I preferred the physics on GT Sport. It still felt decent on wheel and at least there was no snap oversteer. Maybe not very realistic, but is GT7 realistic in the state it’s in? I think it tries to be more realistic but fails miserably.

The snap oversteer is probably a low priority issue for them at the moment. Maybe they don’t see it as an issue at all. I’m not holding out any hope of it being sorted any time soon
 
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ApexGun
GT7 physics are designed around the controller first and steering wheel second and most of their users are on controller, it seems in GT7 they have gone even harder on this because the FFB, canned effects and wheel behaviour in general is just bad for 2022. The cars are behaving bizarrely in GT7, especially on street tyres. The race dry tyres aren't as bad (in dry conditions) but the sports and comfort tyres are just really rubbish in terms of realism.
They need to just take "the real driving simulator" off their logo and then we would be cool, calling this a Sim in 2022 is like calling GTA5 a city driving simulation. Yeah... But nah..
Click to expand...
This is so on point.

Its just sad that ppl who play nothing but this game still think its real, good and defend it. Its like theres a lack of reference. Oh well hello pc sims. Hello real car.
 

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