Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[JDMKING13]

Comment above re. AWD drive cars acting as they did in sport, I have to say, absolutely not, not even close. Now, they are WAY easier to drive than the rwd cars in gt7 but in gt7 the awd groups cars understeer way, way, way, way less. In gts with the wrx id dead set go full throttle before the apex, car pointing sideways. In gt7, if you drive that crazy the back will swing around. They are actually a lot nicer to drive in gt7 tbh, the brutal understeer is gone and they pitch into the corner better off throttle.

I agree with you, but some will swear AWD and even FF cars aren’t supposed to have some oversteer.

 

[Hobson]

So what exactly is your point? Or are you just showing us you can drive a Porsche on the ring on CH?

Edited to get rid of massive quote

Yea I’m showing a Porsche(old one) RR layout in which if you read this thread especially early in the these were supposedly un drivable cars… So yes I posted a lap with CH tires not to show I’m better than anybody… but as I explained before that’s how enjoy playing the game… It’s a 90’s car it’s not for fetched to put comfort hard tires to mimic old tire tech… so please explain to me what is your point in the response?
[/QUOTE]
You're driving under the limit, and any car on this game can be driven under the limit. Everyone keeps talking about over the limit physics /on the limit physics and you posted a whole video, with some really u n d e r the limit driving. That's the only reason why I responded

Different strokes for different folks I guess

 

[extreme car]

So your telling me once you turn the electronic aids off cars won’t oversteer? I thought that was the major reason why modern cars have stability control and TC and Advance Abs system? A driver especially a novice one who turns those aids off could easily spin any of those cars… I’ve seen it with out all the spin out videos?

Huh? when did I say that? did you even have a look at the video I posted where the RX-8 understeers with TC off? I'm confused are we talking about car dynamics being pushed to the limit or amateur driver lacking skills to control their car?

I thought cars such as Carrera GT were so dangerous because they didn’t have an Stability system in which you could spin the car at any moment?

When did I say otherwise? we were discussing how low powered enthusiast car like the Gr86, RX8, and 350Z is supposed to be predictable and grippy to drive not snap oversteer.

 

[JDMKING13]

Huh? when did I say that? did you even have a look at the video I posted where the RX-8 understeers with TC off? I'm confused are we talking about car dynamics being pushed to the limit or amateur driver lacking skills to control their car?

When did I say otherwise? we were discussing how low powered enthusiast car like the Gr86, RX8, and 350Z is supposed to be predictable and grippy to drive not snap oversteer.

Ok maybe I’m wrong and I’m sorry but I was getting the impression you were saying cars snap oversteering and spinning out wasn’t realistic.. obviously those great drives you posted 9/10 can control the car as they can control their own body part. I agree with you cars are set up to understeer, but as soon as those aids come off your on your own… A pro driver can easily push a car to understeer vs I could get in that same car and spin it out on the same turn with sloppy steering input/throttle. I find cars to still understeer in GT7. I’m also confused because it seems to me and this is not coming at you we keep mixing expectations up. People are saying physics broken the cars don’t handle as their supposed to etc cool. My question is the people making these comments or putting up videos of drivers way better than 9/10 people what is your skill level? Are you an novice driver by skill and pushing a car to a limit on which you cannot handle.. everyone on this thread is not on the same level when it comes to driving.. so my thing is without someone at least showing a video of their driving what’s really right?

Yea I’m showing a Porsche(old one) RR layout in which if you read this thread especially early in the these were supposedly un drivable cars… So yes I posted a lap with CH tires not to show I’m better than anybody… but as I explained before that’s how enjoy playing the game… It’s a 90’s car it’s not for fetched to put comfort hard tires to mimic old tire tech… so please explain to me what is your point in the response?

You're driving under the limit, and any car on this game can be driven under the limit. Everyone keeps talking about over the limit physics /on the limit physics and you posted a whole video, with some really u n d e r the limit driving. That's the only reason why I responded

Different strokes for different folks I guess
[/QUOTE]

I respect your opinion but before you saying driving that Porsche at 7/10 was easy or under the limit can you recreate that scenario and post a video with that same Porsche? Even at 7/10 with CH that wasn’t easy at all I also get the back end to slip out showing sometimes I got to aggressive… go read in the beginning of the thread it wasn’t only over the limit driving… it was said the 911 handle like crap and where nowhere like the real thing…..and with the different strokes for different folks comment please don’t get it twisted like I don’t have a clue about going over the limit… I have got gold on all my license test and will be getting all gold on my CE, and you don’t get gold by not driving on the limit or a tad above… You guys really crack me up with above the over the limit talk and act shocked when you spin your cars… but I guess because the pros can do we should be able also…

 

[Td04]

I'll do you one better. 6th gear drift in the GR86.



how about post a video where pro drivers push the car?



Oh what a surprise the RX-8, and 350Z is understeer biased just like @Scaff said how most OEM cars setup their cars. the only cars that is oversteery is the first gen S2000 @17:30.

So? A pro driver know what is doing, It is clear he doesn't do some mistakes and don't get spin out easly like an amateour. And it is clear they are controlling throttle on the video you posted.
Who spinned the rx8 in those videos i posted just did some mistakes (lack of skill or everything you want to call),but this doesn't change the fact that if you do a mistake the car can spin out.
Isn't the same on gt7? You get understeer if you enter a corner too much fast,and you can spin out if you break car's balance (mistake/lack of skill).
Is the way a car spin out on gt7 100% accurate? No, Indeed, expeccially on High speed corners. But no game is 100% like reality
Is this enough to talk about an Arcade with broken physics? In my opinion no,cause the game get many things very good.

Some Cars are broken,indeed...like r8 at Deep forest.

 

[Hobson]

If you want to see over the limit, add me on PSN and go look at all your license times again. Just because you got gold on everything doesn't mean you were driving on the limit. I'm not trying to discredit you, I just don't think everyone's world tour level and that in my opinion is the limit.

 

[dabz343]

Comment above re. AWD drive cars acting as they did in sport, I have to say, absolutely not, not even close. Now, they are WAY easier to drive than the rwd cars in gt7 but in gt7 the awd groups cars understeer way, way, way, way less. In gts with the wrx id dead set go full throttle before the apex, car pointing sideways. In gt7, if you drive that crazy the back will swing around. They are actually a lot nicer to drive in gt7 tbh, the brutal understeer is gone and they pitch into the corner better off throttle.

I was referring to the TRACTION, not about handling characteristics. Again, I was talking about the level of traction...

Not sure how some here persist in making strange interpretations about what others have written...

Edit -- do yourself a favor and gather a set of cars -- an FF, FrontAWD, MidAWD, FR, MR and RR -- in similar power/weight on same tires/tack and give us an honest feedback about variations on TRACTION. Once that is done, we can happily move to explore the inherent characteristics that each package possesses. And FYI, don't confuse the two...it just muddies the whole thing up.

 

[NevilleNobody]

I agree with you, but some will swear AWD and even FF cars aren’t supposed to have some oversteer.

To me the awd and fwd cars with aero are near perfect. The rwd, for me anyways with ham fisted controls, are too squirrly under power and more importantly, too loose in fast corners. My favorite group 3 car by miles is the Porsche cos it has the engine keeping the rear end under control.

Btw I just bought a 911 I think, waiting on ppi.

 

[JDMKING13]

If you want to see over the limit, add me on PSN and go look at all your license times again. Just because you got gold on everything doesn't mean you were driving on the limit. I'm not trying to discredit you, I just don't think everyone's world tour level and that in my opinion is the limit.

Bro that not driving on the limit though that just bad driving I’m sorry.. and my gold comment was only in reference of your driving over the limit comment.. which I will stand by please explain to me how to get golds on the License and CR doesn’t make the driver drive to the limit or even over? You are not driving comfortably like on a free run mode man sorry. Just because you don’t throw the car everywhere and drift the car out of turns doesn’t meant your not driving on the limit. You watch the best drivers they are smooth like butter when it comes to steering inputs and throttle input and it’s there job to drive the fastest they can you would never see them drive as in that video and talking about going over the limits again not trying to disrespect you but that was not going over the limit driving… if one was driving like that and not expect to crash I don’t know what say sorry.

Edit I’m sorry the video wouldn’t load and only showed when you crashed.. I’m watching it now!

To me the awd and fwd cars with aero are near perfect. The rwd, for me anyways with ham fisted controls, are too squirrly under power and more importantly, too loose in fast corners. My favorite group 3 car by miles is the Porsche cos it has the engine keeping the rear end under control.

Btw I just bought a 911 I think, waiting on ppi.

I feel what your saying man.. with me it just depend on the car honestly.. I have to drive more FR also though… I have been in only Ferrari and Porsches so far… I’m in a Michelin Gr.4 league, I drive a Supra but that thing is planted! I have pretty much all the Porsches and what’s cool especially with the 911’s is how much refined they get as you get in the new models!

The GT1 might be my favorite which is kinda An obviously choice but I drive it with CM tires No electronics besides Abs weak and still that thing is planted to the ground the downforce sensation you get through the wheel is nice!👍

@Hobson my friend yes you were smacking that track with no problem! That’s insane good driving especially on those CH the car looked planted. Yes I will add you as a friend if you don’t mind. Again I’m sorry when I saw the video it only showed when you crashed I was like what?!?!😬 I am going to actually really push the car to see what time I can get. I appreciate you taking the time to post your driving video.. my question to you is you seems to have that under great control? You are finding limit/over driving hard?? that looked easy for you. 😂

 

[Hobson]

Bro that not driving on the limit though that just bad driving I’m sorry.. and my gold comment was only in reference of your driving over the limit comment.. which I will stand by please explain to me how to get golds on the License and CR doesn’t make the driver drive to the limit or even over? You are not driving comfortably like on a free run mode man sorry. Just because you don’t throw the car everywhere and drift the car out of turns doesn’t meant your not driving on the limit. You watch the best drivers they are smooth like butter when it comes to steering inputs and throttle input and it’s there job to drive the fastest they can you would never see them drive as in that video and talking about going over the limits again not trying to disrespect you but that was not going over the limit driving… if one was driving like that and not expect to crash I don’t know what say sorry.

I don't have a wheel to have buttery smooth inputs, but if you'd like to donate one to me I wouldn't argue. My bad inputs helped me lap 20-30 secs faster than you around the ring, and in a racing game that sounds positive to me.
If there's time to be gained in a race and the winner beats you driving like that, wouldn't you start doing the same thing? I'm not playing GT to simulate RL on a controller, I bought a sports car in the driveway for that.

CE experience there's always time to gain, same with licenses. Why would you settle for gold is how I look at it.

 

[JDMKING13]

I don't have a wheel to have buttery smooth inputs, but if you'd like to donate one to me I wouldn't argue. My bad inputs helped me lap 20-30 secs faster than you around the ring, and in a racing game that sounds positive to me.
If there's time to be gained in a race and the winner beats you driving like that, wouldn't you start doing the same thing? I'm not playing GT to simulate RL on a controller, I bought a sports car in the driveway for that.

CE experience there's always time to gain, same with licenses. Why would you settle for gold is how I look at it.

I’m sorry man reread my post.. when I saw the video it only loaded when you crashed and that’s it… as for the time come on man I wasn’t driving at all fast and normally don’t go for just times when showing for driving physics… I could easily go fast but I explain the whole situation with the video before posting it… never said look I’m the fastest… also yea your time was very impressive I gave you credit for that in my edit post after watching the whole video… but please if we’re are going to go that route in the end your still on a controller and I’m sorry it’s not my fault you don’t have a wheel… I never come at anyone for what they use to play but fact is that controller while it is tricky to get use to it’s still has assist built to make the driving manageable (that’s why the car just looked weird to me initially but you never said you were on a controller… i don’t know how you expect me or anyone to know) vs wheel users…. Again Great time by the way!

 

[Hobson]

I’m sorry man reread my post.. when I saw the video it only loaded when you crashed and that’s it… as for the time come on man I wasn’t driving at all fast and normally don’t go for just times when showing for driving physics… I could easily go fast but I explain the whole situation with the video before posting it… never said look I’m the fastest… also yea your time was very impressive I gave you credit for that in my edit post after watching the whole video… but please if we’re are going to go that route in the end your still on a controller and I’m sorry it’s not my fault you don’t have a wheel… I never come at anyone for what they use to play but fact is that controller while it is tricky to get use to it’s still has assist built to make the driving manageable (that’s why the car just looked weird to me initially but you never said you were on a controller… i don’t know how you expect me or anyone to know) vs wheel users…. Again Great time by the way!

Maybe what I was saying got lost in translation or something, let's forget it and move on to debating physics instead of whether cars are driveable under the limit/over the limit.

 

[JDMKING13]

Maybe what I was saying got lost in translation or something, let's forget it and move on to debating physics instead of whether cars are driveable under the limit/over the limit.

And it’s cool man and like I said I’m sorry… I honestly respect your opinion and you showed me that in the end you still have a good grasp on handling the cars even on a controller.. I play on a controller and what you did imo was still impressive.. I honestly appreciate you taking the time out to do that lap man! I been asking to just see people drive and you did it not only fast with the response but fast as hell on the track with the 993!

 

[Hobson]

And it’s cool man and like I said I’m sorry… I honestly respect your opinion and you showed me that in the end you still have a good grasp on handling the cars even on a controller.. I play on a controller and what you did imo was still impressive.. I honestly appreciate you taking the time out to do that lap man! I been asking to just see people drive and you did it not only fast with the response but fast as hell on the track with the 993!

I apologize too, and no hard feelings I don't feel some type of way man. Trying to keep up with edits and replies on the phone is hard anyways.

 

[JDMKING13]

I apologize too, and no hard feelings I don't feel some type of way man. Trying to keep up with edits and replies on the phone is hard anyways.

Yup I felt like an ass when I saw your replay lol… I said to myself this man is going to tell me to shut up after I saw that going off what I wrote to you.. something like eating crow bro lol.. it was great driving, and I don’t mean to sound like I’m going overboard but that was good driving especially for CH tires.. i am a nerd when it comes to my driving games especially GT… you are the first I seen who did great driving with my parameters, not as if my parameters are law.. but a lot of people have a hard time with them and you made it look easy! I’m on a phone also and supposed to be working 😂

 

[graesand]

I remember there being some sort of shoddy footage of kaz showcasing the (gtsport) physics engine at an italian uni. Would be cool to find that again and really listen to it. In my mind i dont see why its not the same in GT7, but with different/tweaked variables and data sets ofc. Afaik PD is very small company. I wouldnt want to be the poor bastard who has to make THE physics model, and make it believable for all 400++ cars...

I just did some physical modeling for uni in a simulation environment, its very much about garbage in garbage out if you do not know what you are doing... Granted it was a bit staggering and i was clueless at first, but its pretty amazing what can be done in the modern CAE packages these days if you set it up right from the start.

I know its a bit off topic, but drawing paralells with that experience and the physics of gt7, i feel like they must have messed up somewhere, and really focused more tidying up parts on race cars and race tires, maybe anticipating that the crowd from gtsport would prefer that over shoddy roadcars on CS, and have the polishing in the pipeline. My hopes are they will fix that part too.

My dynamic analysis involved some springs in a fairly straightforward mechanism, driven linear motion, some linkages and change of direction of the linear motion, nothing fancy at all... All i can say from my experience here is, dampers, or rather, lack of damping characteristics, are fundamental for stability, and the character of motion. Rather complex to set up with correct boundary conditions regarding friction, torques and forces in the right places in a mechanism. A car is similar, its rubber on a damped spring, with deformation,.rebound and dampening to some extent in all those areas.

Now i gather GT has an excellent partnership with michelin and brembo (and k&w??) so naturally id assume they have proper data they can use to build their models, theyd even should brag about this, since they are the top brands to partner with. Yet i have missed anything news about this. Would be cool if for ex, cs had a michelin equivalent in game, with tire flex and grip like its irl equivalent. Tire pressure and temp is also crucial in a "real driving simulator" in 2022. Not even trying to be mean here, just respectfully quoting it for what the three loudest ppl.of this thread insist it is.

Im pretty sure Michelin would have their own remarks on a GT86 drifting in 6th...

 

[PolyDiag]

Bro that not driving on the limit though that just bad driving I’m sorry.. and my gold comment was only in reference of your driving over the limit comment.. which I will stand by please explain to me how to get golds on the License and CR doesn’t make the driver drive to the limit or even over? You are not driving comfortably like on a free run mode man sorry. Just because you don’t throw the car everywhere and drift the car out of turns doesn’t meant your not driving on the limit. You watch the best drivers they are smooth like butter when it comes to steering inputs and throttle input and it’s there job to drive the fastest they can you would never see them drive as in that video and talking about going over the limits again not trying to disrespect you but that was not going over the limit driving… if one was driving like that and not expect to crash I don’t know what say sorry.

Edit I’m sorry the video wouldn’t load and only showed when you crashed.. I’m watching it now!


I feel what your saying man.. with me it just depend on the car honestly.. I have to drive more FR also though… I have been in only Ferrari and Porsches so far… I’m in a Michelin Gr.4 league, I drive a Supra but that thing is planted! I have pretty much all the Porsches and what’s cool especially with the 911’s is how much refined they get as you get in the new models!

The GT1 might be my favorite which is kinda An obviously choice but I drive it with CM tires No electronics besides Abs weak and still that thing is planted to the ground the downforce sensation you get through the wheel is nice!👍

@Hobson my friend yes you were smacking that track with no problem! That’s insane good driving especially on those CH the car looked planted. Yes I will add you as a friend if you don’t mind. Again I’m sorry when I saw the video it only showed when you crashed I was like what?!?!😬 I am going to actually really push the car to see what time I can get. I appreciate you taking the time to post your driving video.. my question to you is you seems to have that under great control? You are finding limit/over driving hard?? that looked easy for you. 😂

Agreed that its much faster to be smooth than sliding the car everywhere. A little slip angle is necessary for many cars at the limit and it can be tricky to keep equal force on all tires through the slide.

I disagree with you that CE requires driving over the limit, they don't even require driving on the limit. In real life the limit is using all possible grip on each tire(think traction circle), going over that limit is going to result in understeer or a spin. In the game I guess you could say going over the limit would be exploiting the physics engine to get more grip/turn in than the tires should realistically be able to handle(ghost stuff), or abusing track limits. None of the CE require that and the demonstration times, which are around a second faster than gold, have TC on. In this game you cannot reach the corner exit limit with TC on, with decent driving inputs TC is going to take away from rotation and acceleration coming out of the corner.

Another point to emphasize that CE don't require you to drive on the limit is the dude who got like a 6:22 on nord CE. It was a great lap and getting pretty close to the limit but there is still probably a little bit of time to save. If there is 15 seconds to save on gold nurb without abusing track limits or exploits, I think its pretty safe to say CE doesn't require driving on the limit(main point is that driving at the limit of tire traction is very difficult).

 

[JDMKING13]

Agreed that its much faster to be smooth than sliding the car everywhere. A little slip angle is necessary for many cars at the limit and it can be tricky to keep equal force on all tires through the slide.

I disagree with you that CE requires driving over the limit, they don't even require driving on the limit. In real life the limit is using all possible grip on each tire(think traction circle), going over that limit is going to result in understeer or a spin. In the game I guess you could say going over the limit would be exploiting the physics engine to get more grip/turn in than the tires should realistically be able to handle(ghost stuff), or abusing track limits. None of the CE require that and the demonstration times, which are around a second faster than gold, have TC on. In this game you cannot reach the corner exit limit with TC on, with decent driving inputs TC is going to take away from rotation and acceleration coming out of the corner.

Another point to emphasize that CE don't require you to drive on the limit is the dude who got like a 6:22 on nord CE. It was a great lap and getting pretty close to the limit but there is still probably a little bit of time to save. If there is 15 seconds to save on gold nurb without abusing track limits or exploits, I think its pretty safe to say CE doesn't require driving on the limit(main point is that driving at the limit of tire traction is very difficult).

I hear what your saying, but I’m sorry I don’t agree with you at all.. did you do the Bathurst CE? You telling me you didn’t have to drive on the limit or at least right up to it to get a gold time? There was no way you could Sunday drive that event and get gold. You saying going over the limit can lead to understeer or a spin is what I been saying all along. I am still shocked that some are baffled from loosing the car from going over the limit. So only times can determine if one is going over the limit of driving? I don’t know man that more sounds like a great driver making great use out of the car and skills. If it was strictly about time then who really is pushing a car to the limits including the folks in here because somebody is always going to be faster. I appreciate the response though and I’m really intrigued by this topic.

@Hobson I was only to manage to get to a 8:18 I think you were at 8:06 when you past the sector right before the long straight… that’s what we were going off in my league… Bro I did 4 laps back to back and couldn’t touch your time. 😂 This is where I kinda get confused… just basing off my experience trying to match your time I felt like I was driving the car over the limits… or maybe just over my limits… I’m not going to post a replay but between shifting (I use Clutch with manual shifting) And keeping the car balanced it’s way to stressful for me man! In my league play I would never drive the car like that I would be to nervous to damage it man! That lap was crazy fast!

Anyone who has the 993 I beg you to try to lap the tourist ring layout and see what your time is after passing the sector before the long straight. Comfort hards no assist but ABS weak.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

The fastest times I’ve seen in the dailies they are sliding about all over the place abusing the physics of the game. The laps don’t look like a car being driven well but a computer game being played well, if that makes sense.

 

[JDMKING13]

The fastest times I’ve seen in the dailies they are sliding about all over the place abusing the physics of the game. The laps don’t look like a car being driven well but a computer game being played well, if that makes sense.

That’s why I just play the way I play man I hate to see that. I normally do league play but with GT7 online lacking we been on a pause. We do test runs in the GT4 Michelin series I participate in, it’s really fun just trying to fine tune the cars right before the season starts with a bunch of good guys. I been having a great time getting ready for my league play also. I don’t even mess with the dallies for many reasons one in which you already mentioned.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

There’s very few people that can drive that way consistently so it’s not something you’d see much. But all the tracks have the corners you’re forced to bodge it annoys me, completely breaks immersion

 

[dabz343]

All i can say from my experience here is, dampers, or rather, lack of damping characteristics, are fundamental for stability, and the character of motion. Rather complex to set up with correct boundary conditions regarding friction, torques and forces in the right places in a mechanism. A car is similar, its rubber on a damped spring, with deformation,.rebound and dampening to some extent in all those areas.

Your statement just reminded me of something Pete Brock said to me and others during a Q&A at ArtCenter in Pasadena...He said it helps him to think about the whole car as one giant spring, but one that is made up of all sorts of smaller springs.

Btw, interesting and informative to read peoples' cohesive thoughts -- much better than the bantering.

 

[extreme car]

Ok maybe I’m wrong and I’m sorry but I was getting the impression you were saying cars snap oversteering and spinning out wasn’t realistic.. obviously those great drives you posted 9/10 can control the car as they can control their own body part.

I literaly never said that, quite the opposite if you have no idea what you're doing with throttle and steering you can spin out quite easily just like the @Td04 posted.

I agree with you cars are set up to understeer, but as soon as those aids come off your on your own… A pro driver can easily push a car to understeer vs I could get in that same car and spin it out on the same turn with sloppy steering input/throttle. I find cars to still understeer in GT7.

I disagree all RWD production cars I've tested so for never understeers at corner exit when they're pushed hard
they're all oversteery like @Hobson's video.

I’m also confused because it seems to me and this is not coming at you we keep mixing expectations up. People are saying physics broken the cars don’t handle as their supposed to etc cool. My question is the people making these comments or putting up videos of drivers way better than 9/10 people what is your skill level? Are you an novice driver by skill and pushing a car to a limit on which you cannot handle.. everyone on this thread is not on the same level when it comes to driving.. so my thing is without someone at least showing a video of their driving what’s really right?

because GT7's current RWD production car is broken. you shouldn't be able to carry on drifting in a GR86 in 6th gear @ 3000rpm.

So? A pro driver know what is doing, It is clear he doesn't do some mistakes and don't get spin out easly like an amateour. And it is clear they are controlling throttle on the video you posted.

And? you're saying I don't know how to throttle and steering control in GT7? what about that GR86 video of me drifting in 6th gear?

Who spinned the rx8 in those videos i posted just did some mistakes (lack of skill or everything you want to call),but this doesn't change the fact that if you do a mistake the car can spin out.

never said otherwise

Isn't the same on gt7? You get understeer if you enter a corner too much fast,and you can spin out if you break car's balance (mistake/lack of skill).

no it's not the same. all the production RWD cars that I've tried in GT7 snap oversteer when they're pushed hard at corner exit.

Is the way a car spin out on gt7 100% accurate? No, Indeed, expeccially on High speed corners. But no game is 100% like reality
Is this enough to talk about an Arcade with broken physics? In my opinion no,cause the game get many things very good.

Some Cars are broken,indeed...like r8 at Deep forest.

so now you agree with me that there is something wrong with GT7 physics? Also never said GT7 had arcade physics, and I tend to ignore people who does. The game does get a lot of things right, that's why I complain about the physics because it's the biggest problem GT7 current have IMO (before 1.11 patch it was the economy).

 

[JDMKING13]

I literaly never said that, quite the opposite if you have no idea what you're doing with throttle and steering you can spin out quite easily just like the @Td04 posted.

I disagree all RWD production cars I've tested so for never understeers at corner exit when they're pushed hard
they're all oversteery like @Hobson's video.

because GT7's current RWD production car is broken. you shouldn't be able to carry on drifting in a GR86 in 6th gear @ 3000rpm.

And? you're saying I don't know how to throttle and steering control in GT7? what about that GR86 video of me drifting in 6th gear?

never said otherwise

no it's not the same. all the production RWD cars that I've tried in GT7 snap oversteer when they're pushed hard at corner exit.

so now you agree with me that there is something wrong with GT7 physics? Also never said GT7 had arcade physics, and I tend to ignore people who does. The game does get a lot of things right, that's why I complain about the physics because it's the biggest problem GT7 current have IMO (before 1.11 patch it was the economy).

I could maybe see some entry Understeer maybe even mid corner understeer… but I was under the impression being aggressive with the throttle during corner exit would result more in an oversteer situation with rear wheel drive car vs understeer especially if the electronic are off…

 

[dabz343]

The game does get a lot of things right, that's why I complain about the physics because it's the biggest problem GT7 current have IMO

As you have stated, if only some cars suffer, then could it be that the underlying physics platform isn't the real issue? Perhaps it's the modeling of individual cars? Somehow it's not the poor physics chap/team causing havoc, but the various modelers that PD has employed to create 400+ cars?

Maybe GT7 physics are solid, but it's the stock modeling of each car that is the problem? Coming from a different angle. If tuning solves many of the issues -- then is it still the physics platform, or again, how PD has chosen to model the stock settings?

I grant you that some cars are bit ragged, mostly FRs, but there are some really planted examples -- the AWDs...and some would argue that the physics are broken from the opposite reason -- they have too much grip.

As I drive more cars, I'm leaning more and more towards the modeling side...and more importantly, the issue for me is the FFB...it needs to be more communicative to get the most out of current physics -- this is the weak link...subsequently, I think this is why many DD wheel users find the experience positive.

 

[Scaff]

but I was under the impression being aggressive with the throttle during corner exit would result more in an oversteer situation with rear wheel drive car vs understeer especially if the electronic are off…

In a production road car in reality?

Nope, with very, very few exceptions understeer will be the initial default behaviour.

It's literally engineered into the suspension setup, which is one of the the reasons why camber bolts, are a popular and common GT86 mod. They help reduce (not eliminate) the default understeer bias the car has.

Oh and as gearing is a torque multipler it also very much depends on what gear your in as well.

Oh and the diff, because if its an open did its going to spin the majority of it away into smoke rather than oversteer significantly as well.

Then again I've gone into this to the point of doing the maths in this thread, and done people still don't believe it, so feel free to ignore.

 

[Td04]

I literaly never said that, quite the opposite if you have no idea what you're doing with throttle and steering you can spin out quite easily just like the @Td04 posted.

I disagree all RWD production cars I've tested so for never understeers at corner exit when they're pushed hard
they're all oversteery like @Hobson's video.

because GT7's current RWD production car is broken. you shouldn't be able to carry on drifting in a GR86 in 6th gear @ 3000rpm.

And? you're saying I don't know how to throttle and steering control in GT7? what about that GR86 video of me drifting in 6th gear?

never said otherwise

no it's not the same. all the production RWD cars that I've tried in GT7 snap oversteer when they're pushed hard at corner exit.

so now you agree with me that there is something wrong with GT7 physics? Also never said GT7 had arcade physics, and I tend to ignore people who does. The game does get a lot of things right, that's why I complain about the physics because it's the biggest problem GT7 current have IMO (before 1.11 patch it was the economy).

Well,i Always said that oversteer Is exaggerrated on this game. So it is not that i don't agree with you. I don't agree with who just complains,and talk about broken physics.
I think the big problems are on high speed corners , expeccially with Powerful car.
On slow corners, with low Power cars the issue isn't that bad.. It happens in the video i posted. Maybe irl you need a bit more throttle, but it is fine... Spin out sudden at high speed,or drift like you did is the real physics problem on the game.

 

[JDMKING13]

In a production road car in reality?

Nope, with very, very few exceptions understeer will be the initial default behaviour.

It's literally engineered into the suspension setup, which is one of the the reasons why camber bolts, are a popular and common GT86 mod. They help reduce (not eliminate) the default understeer bias the car has.

Oh and as gearing is a torque multipler it also very much depends on what gear your in as well.

Oh and the duff, because if its an open did its going to spin the majority of it away into smoke rather than oversteer significantly as well.

Then again I've gone into this to the point of doing the maths in this thread, and done people still don't believe it, so feel free to ignore.

Definitely not trying to ignore any information you give.. I have learned a great deal from you and even if I don’t agree with you all the time doesn’t count out you still are extremely knowledgeable… I have read about what you are describing… what I want to ask you is what your take on people just spinning car when coming out of corners then? Majority videos I watch when people are on the track and mess up its them spinning coming out of turn fast or slow.. The videos of the cars driving on the ring who normally get in trouble end up spinning… I have seen cars go in a turn also hot and understeer into the wall but we have all done that entry speed usually is too fast. I had an mid 2000 3 series bmw convertible and the rear would kick out on me very easy if I turn the tcs off coming out of turns only the stability control would help me and kinda make the car understeer… I didn’t have the guts to turn off the stability control because I felt I would spin the car really easy vs being scared of understeer coming out of a turn.

 

[Scaff]

Definitely not trying to ignore any information you give.. I have learned a great deal from you and even if I don’t agree with you all the time doesn’t count out you still are extremely knowledgeable… I have read about what you are describing… what I want to ask you is what your take on people just spinning car when coming out of corners then? Majority videos I watch when people are on the track and mess up its them spinning coming out of turn fast or slow.. The videos of the cars driving on the ring who normally get in trouble end up spinning… I have seen cars go in a turn also hot and understeer into the wall but we have all done that entry speed usually is too fast. I had an mid 2000 3 series bmw convertible and the rear would kick out on me very easy if I turn the tcs off coming out of turns only the stability control would help me and kinda make the car understeer… I didn’t have the guts to turn off the stability control because I felt I would spin the car really easy vs being scared of understeer coming out of a turn.

In most I've seen its not power, but instability, but you have to look at each on a case by case basis.

Having also owned a 2004 3 series I can assure you it's not only the stability control that's making it understeer.

 

[dabz343]

In most I've seen its not power, but instability, but you have to look at each on a case by case basis.

Definitely agree. Getting the chassis to settle on entry is priority 1...Having said that, there are some odd on-throttle issues on exits on some GT7 cars that does raise an eyebrow....and I remember you stating the same.

Having also owned a 2004 3 series I can assure you it's not only the stability control that's making it understeer.

I also drove a 91 e34 M5 for 200k miles and certainly even the Motorsport versions were prone to understeer...225/245 if I remember correctly...wish I had one to test in GT7 -- I know it like the back of my hand. The other familiar face is the last air-cooled 993, mine was a a C2S and sadly, GT7 has gotten it all wrong.