Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[LSFDRX]

Incorrect. Application of throttle happens at turn in. The car shouldn’t understeer in the way it did. The car should swing itself around on throttle input. Front and rear suspension on the GT86 is rather stiff. There isn’t enough transmitted load from acceleration to throw off the front load. There are posted examples of this in the thread already. I owned this car. I know how snappy turn in is.

No. I'm totally correct. You turn in, and apply throttle at the same time? You're pushing into understeer right off the bat. You can't say you were trying to drift or anything, because you need front tire grip to do so, and you didn't allow for them to do anything.

You are overwhelming the fronts, and it's understeering not because its a trait of the car or the game, but because the driver is forcing it to. ANY car can understeer if you make it. "There isn't enough load from acceleration to throw off the front end"... what in the world does that even mean? There is no load on the front tires from acceleration, but you can lighten the front giving it less grip by transitioning the weight back, which only causes more understeer. You aren't doing ANYTHING to the chassis dynamically on turn in, you just turn and throttle. There is no mind paid to chassis balance, car position, braking to weight the fronts, slowing to allow for adequate traction or anything. You enter the turn at speed then plow through it by turning in WAY TOO MUCH and then instead of lifting or winding out the wheel, you just turn in more and push it harder. It is absolutely insane to watch. NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN PAST THE LIMITS OF THE FRONT TIRES. Nothing, nada, zilch, finito.... you have ZERO control because it's ruined until you let the fronts grip, which you never did. If you did that at a HPDE or track event people would be very concerned, because to a driver, understeer sucks, and making it worse by just turning in more is less than a rookie mistake, it's intentionally being abusive to the car.

It doesn't matter at all what the real world FRS does, you are incorrectly driving the one in AC.

As a funny side note, I was instructing at a drift event in WA state and had an older guy in a black FT-86 with me. Nothing I could do would make this man NOT understeer and push into it. He just thought "more steer = more turn" which sounds a lot like what you're thinking. And this is at less than 20mph. He just didn't get it, even after I took over and showed him how easy it was to unbalance the car and throttle into oversteer. He just pushed and pushed into his skittering tires and everyone I was there with felt bad for the car, for him, and for me. He wore his fronts more than the rears... on a drift day.

We didn't let him outside the skid pad after that.

 

[Firestone]

I

No. I'm totally correct. You turn in, and apply throttle at the same time? You're pushing into understeer right off the bat. You can't say you were trying to drift or anything, because you need front tire grip to do so, and you didn't allow for them to do anything.

You are overwhelming the fronts, and it's understeering not because its a trait of the car or the game, but because the driver is forcing it to. ANY car can understeer if you make it. "There isn't enough load from acceleration to throw off the front end"... what in the world does that even mean? There is no load on the front tires from acceleration, but you can lighten the front giving it less grip by transitioning the weight back, which only causes more understeer. You aren't doing ANYTHING to the chassis dynamically on turn in, you just turn and throttle. There is no mind paid to chassis balance, car position, braking to weight the fronts, slowing to allow for adequate traction or anything. You enter the turn at speed then plow through it by turning in WAY TOO MUCH and then instead of lifting or winding out the wheel, you just turn in more and push it harder. It is absolutely insane to watch. NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN PAST THE LIMITS OF THE FRONT TIRES. Nothing, nada, zilch, finito.... you have ZERO control because it's ruined until you let the fronts grip, which you never did. If you did that at a HPDE or track event people would be very concerned, because to a driver, understeer sucks, and making it worse by just turning in more is less than a rookie mistake, it's intentionally being abusive to the car.

It doesn't matter at all what the real world FRS does, you are incorrectly driving the one in AC.

As a funny side note, I was instructing at a drift event in WA state and had an older guy in a black FT-86 with me. Nothing I could do would make this man NOT understeer and push into it. He just thought "more steer = more turn" which sounds a lot like what you're thinking. And this is at less than 20mph. He just didn't get it, even after I took over and showed him how easy it was to unbalance the car and throttle into oversteer. He just pushed and pushed into his skittering tires and everyone I was there with felt bad for the car, for him, and for me. He wore his fronts more than the rears... on a drift day.

We didn't let him outside the skid pad after that.

Ill repeat. I did not turn the wheel at full lock then floored it. I turned the wheel progressively towards 90 degrees and gave it throttle well before understeer occurred. Front tire grip is not going to be compromised at this point of the turn in. You can go test this in the game yourself. No way shape or form can you induce oversteer on power in 2nd gear in the game unless you balance the car a certain way.
Pay attention to this video

Most of the cuts he’s rolling into the corner at 2nd gear and on power getting the car to oversteer into the corner. Also with regard to ACs physics, pay attention to :35 to :40 with the car on power and try the same conditions in AC.

 

[Td04]

I tryed many stock fr and mr Road cars in these days.
Just a feeling, maybe i am wrong.. i find mostly of the car i tryed really fun to drive. Some of them have more progressive oversteer than others,but basically i was fine with mostly of them.
I noticed that reduce car's weight make them really nervous and snappy,and i lost the pleasure of the stock car.
As racing tires are not always the better solution, maybe Is the same with the weight reduction.

 

[MonoTonouS]

My 2 cent's. the physics may be fine but the wheel implementation is bad. If I judged AC or PC2 by their control physics, they both have horribly broken physics because those games are unplayable using a controller unless you tweak the settings on a per car basis. Seriously, boot up PC2, and drive a Lambo around any track, if you don't spin out, good for you. I returned PC2 because it was quite literally unplayable on a DS4 .

 

[ScottPuss20]

My 2 cent's. the physics may be fine but the wheel implementation is bad. If I judged AC or PC2 by their control physics, they both have horribly broken physics because those games are unplayable using a controller unless you tweak the settings on a per car basis. Seriously, boot up PC2, and drive a Lambo around any track, if you don't spin out, good for you. I returned PC2 because it was quite literally unplayable on a DS4 .

You don't have to adjust the settings on a per-car basis. All you need to do is change the controller settings and you'll be alright. I played Project Cars 2 for 3 years and not once did I think about returning the game. You missed out mate.

 

[br1x]

I want you Guys to do what I’m about to tell you, because I know what I’m talking about

The Sensitivity MUST be set to 10
Yes 10!!!

How on Earth do you Guys want to get detailed Feedback when putting InGame Torque to 2 or 3 and Sensitivity to 1 😂

Then I hope you know 10 sensitivity is
the LOWEST setting, as the scale is inverted. 1 most sensitive/detailed, 10 least sensitive/detailed.

That's why Fanatec (who in big part actually are Simracers) recommend 1, the highest detail setting.

But as you platinumed FFBology with a masters degree, you probably knew that already.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Then I hope you know 10 sensitivity is
the LOWEST setting, as the scale is inverted. 1 most sensitive/detailed, 10 least sensitive/detailed.

All I know is that Sensitivity 1 gives me almost no details, while 10 gives me the most.

That's why Fanatec (who in big part actually are Simracers) recommend 1, the highest detail setting.

They are free to recommend whatever they think is best, I believe I know better because I trust my Senses.

But has you platinumed FFBology with a masters degree, you probably knew that already.

I love your Sarcasm, splendid refreshing.
You’re a very funny Man.

 

[MonoTonouS]

You don't have to adjust the settings on a per-car basis. All you need to do is change the controller settings and you'll be alright. I played Project Cars 2 for 3 years and not once did I think about returning the game. You missed out mate.

My point is the physics are only as good as the input method, GT7 may have the most realistic physics ever, but if the input method is garbage, the game will suck . PC2 had an abysmal controller of physics, downright the worse I have ever seen in a videogame. Wheel users are a tiny niche, I doubt there are over 250,000 active wheel users over all platforms, how they thought it was ok to release a game that was unplayable on default settings is beyond me. It's much more forgivable if GT7's wheel physics are bad considering 99% of players, play with a controller.

 

[Johnnn]

My point is the physics are only as good as the input method, GT7 may have the most realistic physics ever, but if the input method is garbage, the game will suck . PC2 had an abysmal controller of physics, downright the worse I have ever seen in a videogame. Wheel users are a tiny niche, I doubt there are over 250,000 active wheel users over all platforms, how they thought it was ok to release a game that was unplayable on default settings is beyond me. It's much more forgivable if GT7's wheel physics are bad considering 99% of players, play with a controller.

You right about separating input from physics. The good thing on GT7 is it has awesome physics and amazing input. It's probably not sim level but much better than any console first game.

PC2 has suboptimal input. Almost all other sims are a bit better. Still very playable. To me it's car dependent too because some cars are OK with my settings and other would need different ones.

 

[Goshin2568]

My point is the physics are only as good as the input method, GT7 may have the most realistic physics ever, but if the input method is garbage, the game will suck . PC2 had an abysmal controller of physics, downright the worse I have ever seen in a videogame. Wheel users are a tiny niche, I doubt there are over 250,000 active wheel users over all platforms, how they thought it was ok to release a game that was unplayable on default settings is beyond me. It's much more forgivable if GT7's wheel physics are bad considering 99% of players, play with a controller.

Are you saying for one specific game or like total active wheel users in the world across all racing games? Because I promise you there are significantly more than 250k people in the world who actively play racing games with wheels.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

No. I'm totally correct. You turn in, and apply throttle at the same time? You're pushing into understeer right off the bat. You can't say you were trying to drift or anything, because you need front tire grip to do so, and you didn't allow for them to do anything.

You are overwhelming the fronts, and it's understeering not because its a trait of the car or the game, but because the driver is forcing it to. ANY car can understeer if you make it. "There isn't enough load from acceleration to throw off the front end"... what in the world does that even mean? There is no load on the front tires from acceleration, but you can lighten the front giving it less grip by transitioning the weight back, which only causes more understeer. You aren't doing ANYTHING to the chassis dynamically on turn in, you just turn and throttle. There is no mind paid to chassis balance, car position, braking to weight the fronts, slowing to allow for adequate traction or anything. You enter the turn at speed then plow through it by turning in WAY TOO MUCH and then instead of lifting or winding out the wheel, you just turn in more and push it harder. It is absolutely insane to watch. NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN PAST THE LIMITS OF THE FRONT TIRES. Nothing, nada, zilch, finito.... you have ZERO control because it's ruined until you let the fronts grip, which you never did. If you did that at a HPDE or track event people would be very concerned, because to a driver, understeer sucks, and making it worse by just turning in more is less than a rookie mistake, it's intentionally being abusive to the car.

It doesn't matter at all what the real world FRS does, you are incorrectly driving the one in AC.

As a funny side note, I was instructing at a drift event in WA state and had an older guy in a black FT-86 with me. Nothing I could do would make this man NOT understeer and push into it. He just thought "more steer = more turn" which sounds a lot like what you're thinking. And this is at less than 20mph. He just didn't get it, even after I took over and showed him how easy it was to unbalance the car and throttle into oversteer. He just pushed and pushed into his skittering tires and everyone I was there with felt bad for the car, for him, and for me. He wore his fronts more than the rears... on a drift day.

We didn't let him outside the skid pad after that.

Have the people stating otherwise try a motorcycle. Understeering equals instantly smashing the pavement, hopefully not face first.

Then I hope you know 10 sensitivity is
the LOWEST setting, as the scale is inverted. 1 most sensitive/detailed, 10 least sensitive/detailed.

That's why Fanatec (who in big part actually are Simracers) recommend 1, the highest detail setting.

But as you platinumed FFBology with a masters degree, you probably knew that already.

Well, sensitivity should be understood as how strongly the wheel responds to FFB signal. High sensitivity means that even weak signals will be felt sufficiently, which otherwise would be too faint or non-existent. How strong the maximal FFB is, is determined by FFB max torque.

Dynamic range is best with 1, hence "detail", but only if the wheelbase is sufficiently strong so that you can feel even the faintest signals clearly. The con here is that the strongest signals might be too strong to handle for an entire race.
If maximal torque is lowered, dynamic range needs to be compressed so that you can feel the faintest signals clearly, hence increasing sensitivity, which would also increase detail since you otherwise would be unable to feel the faintest signals at all.

Neither 1 nor 10 FFB sens gives "most detail"...

Summary:
FFB sensitivity is compression of dynamic range. For high maximal torque on a strong wheelbase, 1 is best. While for weak wheels or a low maximal torque, higher is better, possibly 10.
I use a DD 8 Nm but like a somewhat light wheel, so I use high sens, otherwise the faintest signals disappear.

 

[RaZoR No1]

My biggest issue with the physics and probably why most of the time I loose the car is, that it is not possible to counter steer in Controller.
You can literally see, that the tires dont turn, no matter how hard I try to counter steer on a very small drift.
To counter steer I need to have auto counter steer turned on... which I dont like.

 

[Johnnn]

My biggest issue with the physics and probably why most of the time I loose the car is, that it is not possible to counter steer in Controller.
You can literally see, that the tires dont turn, no matter how hard I try to counter steer on a very small drift.
To counter steer I need to have auto counter steer turned on... which I dont like.

That's not true. I use maximum sensitivity, could it be the problem then? Counter steering is rather easy on a controller (gamepad, right?).

 

[RaZoR No1]

That's not true. I use maximum sensitivity, could it be the problem then? Counter steering is rather easy on a controller (gamepad, right?).

Gamepad and tried all sensivity options.
This issues are more present on GR. 4 cars etc.

 

[Johnnn]

Gamepad and tried all sensivity options.
This issues are more present on GR. 4 cars etc.

You need to be fast but it's even possible to slide the car. If you use too much throttle, you will lost the car completely and I use sound for throttle not pedal position. I don't have many Gr.4 cars so it's hard to test it. Game without cars, so funny. Maybe I will find some in my garage if I won some. Will test it today.

 

[LSFDRX]

Ill repeat. I did not turn the wheel at full lock then floored it. I turned the wheel progressively towards 90 degrees and gave it throttle well before understeer occurred. Front tire grip is not going to be compromised at this point of the turn in. You can go test this in the game yourself. No way shape or form can you induce oversteer on power in 2nd gear in the game unless you balance the car a certain way.
Pay attention to this video

Most of the cuts he’s rolling into the corner at 2nd gear and on power getting the car to oversteer into the corner. Also with regard to ACs physics, pay attention to :35 to :40 with the car on power and try the same conditions in AC.

No more repeating, you're clearly not getting anywhere with what I'm saying, and you're still just wrong.

Never did I say "full lock". Understeer happens when it happens, it can be at shallow angles or greater ones, low speeds or high.

"Front tire grip is not going to be compromised"? How do you know? You're just making that up. Driving is just based on the amount of grip your tires have anyways, which you feel and compensate for. It's what you work with when driving any car.

"No way shape or form can you induce oversteer on power in 2nd gear in the game unless you balance the car a certain way"... EXACTLY. This is the BASIS OF DRIVING. NOTHING HAPPENS WIHTOUT THE CHASSIS BEING BALANCED IN A CERTAIN WAY. How are you not getting that?

In the video he oversteers because he is allowing the fronts to grip as they should, and is keeping the chassis playful in a way that keeps the rear loose while exploiting that looseness with throttle application to induce oversteer... he is also going +-30mph the whole time. I still don't know what the purpose of this video is, because I only called out the terrible examples shown in the AC video that showed a fundamental misunderstanding of vehicle dynamics by the driver.

If you watch yourself in the AC video and don't see things wrong with the way you're understeering, then I can't help you. The tires are clearly not very grippy, but you do nothing to work with that at all. You just keep pushing into that damn understeer without mercy. Then in instances where you had the opportunity to power oversteer, you didn't, but the car was clearly able to.

Now instead of replying to this, go practice and watch driving fundamentals videos. I'm not gonna keep beating this dead horse.

 

[Szami67]

Then I hope you know 10 sensitivity is
the LOWEST setting, as the scale is inverted. 1 most sensitive/detailed, 10 least sensitive/detailed.

That's why Fanatec (who in big part actually are Simracers) recommend 1, the highest detail setting.

But as you platinumed FFBology with a masters degree, you probably knew that already.

Post in thread 'Some thoughts on FFB sensitivity'
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/some-thoughts-on-ffb-sensitivity.384232/post-12590442

FFB sensitivity is a (reversed) damper setting. Damping controls how smooth or spikey the FFB output is. Below is a nice picture that illustrates perfectly what damping does. In this picture FFB output to the wheel is displayed in a graph. The top graph is zero damping. The lowest graph is max damping. Keep in mind that it is reversed so the top graph is FFB Sensitivity 10 and the lowest graph would be FFB Sensitivity 0.

 

[br1x]

Post in thread 'Some thoughts on FFB sensitivity'
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/some-thoughts-on-ffb-sensitivity.384232/post-12590442

"With my G25 (using Ricmotech adapter) I can't really feel any difference so I just left it at 10 for maximum FFB detail"

What is that supposed to tell me? More people just making assumptions when there is clear and exact info on what it does.

And where do you get the info from that a lower value means more smoothing? It is actually the opposite, so the graph top is FFB Sensitivity 1 and the lowest graph is Sensitivity 10.

 

[Wedge2022]

In regards to the driving physics argument in this thread I offer this

The Physics of Racing

Its a university lecture on tire dynamics.....wish I had teachers this cool

Getting back to the game....I honestly dont have a problem with the cars 9 times out of 10.....
The rear getting loose has put a smile on my face far more often than its been frustrating ....so far its really only been maybe 2 or 3 cars out of dozens that may have a bit of an issue . the Audi R8 LMS being one......

 

[PirovacBoy]

"With my G25 (using Ricmotech adapter) I can't really feel any difference so I just left it at 10 for maximum FFB detail"

What is that supposed to tell me? More people just making assumptions when there is clear and exact info on what it does.

And where do you get the info from that a lower value means more smoothing? It is actually the opposite, so the graph top is FFB Sensitivity 1 and the lowest graph is Sensitivity 10.

This post actually shows that you definitely have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You contradict yourself in such a blatant manner that it’s just ridiculous.
Are you actually aware that I’m only trying to HELP the Community to get an understanding of how they should set up the FFB in GT7.
Whereas you just try to prove some point which is absolutely of no interest.
Fanatec says this and Fanatec recommends that…BlahBlah…they are SimRacers 🤣… I don’t get People like you.
Instead of just simply acknowledge that others like me probably are right?!
Yeah, no way, right?
WHO am I.
A PirovacBoy, a Nobody Right?!
What do you think, why do famous and successful YouTubers like Z28 or GTHR Digit or even our friendly Basic Ollie highly suggest us to use FFB Torque on 4-5 and Sensitivity!!! at 10?!
Are these People Idiots for you ?!
Am I an Idiot for you.
I talked to 3 good Friends of mine who are all World Tour Finalists from Germany, Italy and Australia, and they ALL confirmed that SENSITIVITY IS the most important Setting when it comes down to Details.
So what are you trying to prove???

I‘m an honorable Man, my one and only intention why I posted this and my previous Posts was to HELP the Community to solve their Issues with their FFB Experience.
I‘m not here to get likes or Shoulder Taps 😅
I got nothing to prove nor do it feel the need to argue with People like you, but I simply refuse to accept misleading Assumptions and Statements.
Instead of being thankful for any help, you simply choose to bash on me, trying to make me look like a Fool.
Congratulations.
Looks like you digged your own Grave.

 

[Goshin2568]

Post in thread 'Some thoughts on FFB sensitivity'
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/some-thoughts-on-ffb-sensitivity.384232/post-12590442

FFB sensitivity is a (reversed) damper setting. Damping controls how smooth or spikey the FFB output is. Below is a nice picture that illustrates perfectly what damping does. In this picture FFB output to the wheel is displayed in a graph. The top graph is zero damping. The lowest graph is max damping. Keep in mind that it is reversed so the top graph is FFB Sensitivity 10 and the lowest graph would be FFB Sensitivity 0.

This just isn't how it works though. The thread you linked is just someone guessing, and they're incorrect.


FFB sensitivity controls the dynamic range of the FFB. It essentially works like a compressor in audio. As you increase the sensitivity setting, you bring up the strength of the weak ffb effects, and bring down the strength of the strong ffb effects, bringing everything closer together. This is useful when using a low max torque setting, because with a high dynamic range and low torque it can be very difficult to feel the subtle ffb effects, but at a higher max torque, you want to lower the sensitivity so that you can feel the difference between things that are supposed to be subtle and things that are supposed to be strong. Otherwise a small bump in the road and a high speed crash into a wall will feel pretty much the same.


Think about audio mixes for movies. When you're at the theater with the volume cranked you want a high dynamic range, so you can hear and feel the difference between a loud explosion and a character whispering in a quiet room. But if you were watching that same movie in the middle of the night at home with your family asleep, you want a much lower dynamic range so that you can actually hear everything and you don't have to choose between inaudible dialogue or explosions that wake the whole house up. It's the exact same principle but with FFB.

 

[Skinny McLean]

I haven't experimented with it in GT7, but in GTS the FFB Sensitivity setting worked like a low-pass filter with a tunable cut-off frequency - the higher the setting, the more high-frequency components were let through. The image in @Szami's post illustrates this quite well.

 

[PirovacBoy]

This just isn't how it works though. The thread you linked is just someone guessing, and they're incorrect.


FFB sensitivity controls the dynamic range of the FFB. It essentially works like a compressor in audio. As you increase the sensitivity setting, you bring up the strength of the weak ffb effects, and bring down the strength of the strong ffb effects, bringing everything closer together. This is useful when using a low max torque setting, because with a high dynamic range and low torque it can be very difficult to feel the subtle ffb effects, but at a higher max torque, you want to lower the sensitivity so that you can feel the difference between things that are supposed to be subtle and things that are supposed to be strong. Otherwise a small bump in the road and a high speed crash into a wall will feel pretty much the same.


Think about audio mixes for movies. When you're at the theater with the volume cranked you want a high dynamic range, so you can hear and feel the difference between a loud explosion and a character whispering in a quiet room. But if you were watching that same movie in the middle of the night at home with your family asleep, you want a much lower dynamic range so that you can actually hear everything and you don't have to choose between inaudible dialogue or explosions that wake the whole house up. It's the exact same principle but with FFB.

Exactly, you are absolutely correct with your explanation.
So is @Szami too.
It’s about finding that PERFECT BALANCE between these two Sliders.
And that balance is the one myself and many others have said, at least for the CSL DD.
The point is to get the whole Dynamic Range packed in a way that is USEFUL to drive accordingly.
A medium light Torque Level ( 4-5) on DDPRO combined with highly accented Details (10) is exactly what is helpful to find that Sweet Spot.
Same goes for ANY other Wheelbase.
There is no absolute right or wrong.

 

[br1x]

This post actually shows that you definitely have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You contradict yourself in such a blatant manner that it’s just ridiculous.
Are you actually aware that I’m only trying to HELP the Community to get an understanding of how they should set up the FFB in GT7.
Whereas you just try to prove some point which is absolutely of no interest.
Fanatec says this and Fanatec recommends that…BlahBlah…they are SimRacers 🤣… I don’t get People like you.
Instead of just simply acknowledge that others like me probably are right?!
Yeah, no way, right?
WHO am I.
A PirovacBoy, a Nobody Right?!
What do you think, why do famous and successful YouTubers like Z28 or GTHR Digit or even our friendly Basic Ollie highly suggest us to use FFB Torque on 4-5 and Sensitivity!!! at 10?!
Are these People Idiots for you ?!
Am I an Idiot for you.
I talked to 3 good Friends of mine who are all World Tour Finalists from Germany, Italy and Australia, and they ALL confirmed that SENSITIVITY IS the most important Setting when it comes down to Details.
So what are you trying to prove???

I‘m an honorable Man, my one and only intention why I posted this and my previous Posts was to HELP the Community to solve their Issues with their FFB Experience.
I‘m not here to get likes or Shoulder Taps 😅
I got nothing to prove nor do it feel the need to argue with People like you, but I simply refuse to accept misleading Assumptions and Statements.
Instead of being thankful for any help, you simply choose to bash on me, trying to make me look like a Fool.
Congratulations.
Looks like you digged your own Grave.

I am not contradicting myself anywhere, just another claim out of thin air. 1 Sensitivity = lowest amper/most sensitive, 10 highest damper/least sensitive

And I only mentioned Fanatec once, as you claimed Fanatec don't know what they are talking about and please don't try to twist words again: You did actually say that.

I never bashed you, I just disagree with what you say (based on what is commonly spread information) and the way you portrait yourself and your claims as being this be-all end-all answer to everything.
If you want to put sensitivity on 10, fine by me, but don't go and spread your confirmation biased opinion as facts.

Where did I say or even imply you were an idiot? Why do you have to put yourself in the victim role with these awkward assumptions?
Why do you think Tidgney drives at 4/2? Is he an idiot to you then? Am I an idiot to you then because I disagree?

Straw man at it's finest.

I am done with this discussion, absolutely pointless like the endlessly spiraling physics discussion, enjoy.

 

[Goshin2568]

I haven't experimented with it in GT7, but in GTS the FFB Sensitivity setting worked like a low-pass filter with a tunable cut-off frequency - the higher the setting, the more high-frequency components were let through. The image in @Szami's post illustrates this quite well.

But it didn't. Thats just not how it worked. Wheel manufacturers who've actually seen the raw FFB data have explained exactly what the setting does. It's a compressor. It changes dynamic range.

A dozen more people in this thread can give their anecdotal opinion on what the setting feels like to them, and it doesn't change the actual facts and data.

 

[Skinny McLean]

Then show us the data - until then your version is also just anecdotal. And the in-game name for the setting is "FFB_Rise" which seems like it refers to the rise-time of the signal - which is affected by the time constant of the filter.

Edit: @Goshin2568

 

[Goshin2568]

Then show us the data - until then your version is also just anecdotal. And the in-game name for the setting is "FFB_Rise" which seems like it refers to the rise-time of the signal - which is affected by the time constant of the filter.

I don't personally have it lol. I'm relying on the words of professionals in the field who've seen it and worked with it when designing hardware and software for FFB wheels. I'm not sure exactly why exactly you'd think they would lie..?

 

[PirovacBoy]

I am not contradicting myself anywhere, just another claim out of thin air. 1 Sensitivity = lowest Damber/most sensitive, 10

And I only mentioned Fanatec once, as you claimed Fanatec don't know what they are talking about and please don't try to twist words again: You did actually say that.

I never bashed you, I just disagree with what you say (based on what is commonly spread information) and the way you portrait yourself and your claims as being this be-all end-all answer to everything.
If you want to put sensitivity on 10, fine by me, but don't go and spread your confirmation biased opinion as facts.

Where did I say or even imply you were an idiot? Why do you have to put yourself in the victim role with these awkward assumptions?
Why do you think Tidgney drives at 4/2? Is he an idiot to you then? Am I an idiot to you then because I disagree?

Straw man at it's finest.

I am done with this discussion, absolutely pointless like the endlessly spiraling physics discussion, enjoy.

It’s okay that you try to defend yourself.
The good People here who actually follow the Discussion shall make their own Opinion.
I wish you all the best my Friend 😁

 

[Skinny McLean]

I don't personally have it lol. I'm relying on the words of professionals in the field who've seen it and worked with it when designing hardware and software for FFB wheels. I'm not sure exactly why exactly you'd think they would lie..?

Please don't put words in my mouth @Goshin2568 and claim I've called people liars.

I have made enough filters, both analog and digital (did it many times back in university, when studying EE,) to understand how they work. I've also dabbled quite a lot with both analog and digital sound recording and editing, so I'm certainly aware of the difference between a filter and a compressor. And to me, the "FFB sensitivity setting" has the characteristics of a tunable low-pass filter; a low-pass filter attenuates a signal's high-frequency components above its cut-off frequency (e.g. a square-wave will have its sharp corners "rounded off") - how much is determined by the number of poles in the transfer function of the filter, whereas a compressor simply attenuates the difference between small and large amplitude signals (or, when over-used, obliterates them, as in some contemporary pop music,) while leaving the frequency components of the signal intact.

 

[dabz343]

In my mind RWD cars, especially road cars benefit from having a tiny amount of excess in rotation while turning, a slight of oversteer to keep the car rotating, but in GT7 grip is very linear, and between the point of the car being perfectly planted and spinning out is a straight dropoff rather than having a downward curve where the car can benefit from oversteer but after a certain point loses grip and then spins. It works for the game's FWD and AWD cars as they have the front wheels to pull the car straight again, but since the rolloff of rear grip is too linear you can't balance a car on power very easily as any slip is considered a significant loss of grip and you have to correct to save it rather than adapt to it.

I see what you are saying, and agree on some models, balancing on oversteer in GT7 can be challenging...I'm not sure what the right equation is here. I just know that the window of grip should not be so binary -- it should be linear, progressive, and based on predicable physics...that translates to variations in FFB.

my two favourites were the Renault 8 Gordini and Alpine A110 '17 (I like French cars).

Yes the Gordini is a treat, just drove it for the first time yesterday around Goodwood On CM. Darty little thing and you have to be patient on throttle...which reminds me, is this game all about outright pace? Or could it be more about the different builds, characters, nuances in the individual designs?

If you have not already, try the '56 Porsche 356. It's beautifully intuitive on braking and a brut on exit.