Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[driftnick13]

Ill repeat. I did not turn the wheel at full lock then floored it. I turned the wheel progressively towards 90 degrees and gave it throttle well before understeer occurred. Front tire grip is not going to be compromised at this point of the turn in. You can go test this in the game yourself. No way shape or form can you induce oversteer on power in 2nd gear in the game unless you balance the car a certain way.

Do I need to post yet another video proving you wrong?

Most of the cuts he’s rolling into the corner at 2nd gear and on power getting the car to oversteer into the corner. Also with regard to ACs physics, pay attention to :35 to :40 with the car on power and try the same conditions in AC.

You have to be trolling, the things you say happen in that video but don't happen in AC are literally happening in your ac video lol, of course you lift off the throttle then intentionally make the car understeer (or you just have no idea what you are doing).

 

[Skython]

Sounds like fun! I should have some time today to give her a spin. I also take pretty much everything to Tsukuba to sort it out before really using it, and this fits perfectly.

EDIT: Just went into the game and I haven't yet got the A110 in 7 yet... and it looks like there is no where to buy it at the moment. I could have sworn I had it in the garage from winning it in some event, but I guess not.

A man of culture, I see. Tsukuba is great because you can enjoy a wide variety of cars there, especially the slower ones which don't have many circuits to shine on.

You're probably thinking of the modern A110 which you win in one of the licenses, which is a car I actually enjoy.

I see what you are saying, and agree on some models, balancing on oversteer in GT7 can be challenging...I'm not sure what the right equation is here. I just know that the window of grip should not be so binary -- it should be linear, progressive, and based on predicable physics...that translates to variations in FFB.

Yes the Gordini is a treat, just drove it for the first time yesterday around Goodwood On CM. Darty little thing and you have to be patient on throttle...which reminds me, is this game all about outright pace? Or could it be more about the different builds, characters, nuances in the individual designs?

If you have not already, try the '56 Porsche 356. It's beautifully intuitive on braking and a brut on exit.

We could only really know what the right equation is if we know how they calculate physics. I'd assume there's a global physics with car specific variables that go beyond basic power/weight/weight distribution. In my post about the 330 P4 and A220 the other day I questioned if PD revisit that individual physics data after making significant changes to the global physics, which I suspect they don't. Which is troubling if they expend more resources on realistically mapping the night sky (which is quite beautiful that one time you look at it in photomode) than on actually making the cars drive in a way that is realistic enough and yet enjoyable/rewarding.

I don't think the game is all about outright pace, I don't think that's a philosophy to approach the game physics with. I like to push the cars to the edge, but it's not about pace alone. I like to drive and experience the different cars and what makes them unique. Sure, some will be hard to drive, but that's all part of it. But as it stands, I'm sure it's often far more difficult than it should be.

I don't own the 356, but I enjoyed it in the Music Rally you get thrown into for the game tutorial. I'll have to buy it next time it shows up in the dealer.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Compare the pair:

The BMW is faster than the Nissan but the Nissan is much easier to drive and more forgiving on the limit. It doesn't slide as easily and feels more progressive with the grip loss compared to the BMW. The BMW loses grip too quickly and you have to be more cautious on the throttle as a result. Notice the amount of corrections I'm having to make in the BMW.

 

[graesand]

Edit: question before my jibberish;
Has anyone been able to receive and record the FFB graphs from GT? Otherwise, everything stated by some is utter bullcrap. We have no clue as to what the signal is made up from, if its then filtered, compressed, de-essed, pseudo stereo widened, inverted, hard panned, ... You get my drift.

Regarding "there is no right or wrong when it comes to ffb",

Sure, whatever floats your boat. But!

It depends on many things, and VERY much on what size and weight your rim is.

Ive got a tx racing base with a light, plastic 28cm rim and a 35cm "heavy", nardi knockoff. The difference is like night and day, its completely different. No ffb setting on earth will make up for the change in feel. Its a matter of not only torque, but about speed and acceleration.

I guess most ppl who have a wheel enjoy thinking they are doing "real driving", but without a way to simulate sustained G force, its pretty much down to shaking and tilting your bum in more or less sophisticated ways, and, twisting your wrists more or less.

It is perfectly possible to model, calculate and transmit the EXACT steering force per car and tire and setup and blabla whatever developer puts in their physics model, into your hands. Its just a matter of interpretation. I suspect GT has interpreted in a completely novel way, since it behaves like nothing else hahaha. Maybe GT try to simulate Gforces into the wheel? Judging by some of the experts here, i understand GT ffb is broken by their own definition, as in, everything over 5 torque is clipping and 10 sens is like a 3630 on a daftpunk song.

Seems really strange to me that they make such a **** ffb that it will clip under its own output. Im imagining coupling a 4x12 to a walkman, and it clips lololololol. I mean if they are serious about simulation i guess those two small settings should be explained in deep detail since they are the only things connecting the game even vaguely to simulating anything. Thats not ranting on gt but on every sim too.

The limiting factor in simulating real force before dd wheels was the torque. It still is, because 8nm is right about what a road car can output to your hands, not close to a formula car, that could be more like 30nm....!
We now could have proper force by car type ,susp geo, tyre, and rim size and weight.

So, its a matter of perspective, you want to be A+/Superduper hero of the earth in your favourite simracing socks not breaking a sweat, you might want to turn everything down and drive with your fingers. Maybe put the rotation to 480deg (cheating lol).

Or, you are like me, have very limited time, want something to rip your palms from your wrists and have as close to 1:1 force when you get the chance to sit down and "drive".

Ill admit that ive tried both, and neither option is great on my base, for me. I feel id want quicker response, faster overall rotational speed and torque ofc.

And then, i think it should be completely feasible in the future, once more and more DD bases come along, to have a calculation per rim dia and weight in order to transfer the intended ffb as close to 1:1 as possible.

Idk just my thoughts, i know some guys ive raced with swear by some wheel or another, and in 9/10 times its always because of the pack mentality, the circle jerk, the schumacher within and the last time you won a race.

A real wheel calibration should be done with accelerometers in the future... Hmm.... How long....

 

[MonoTonouS]

Are you saying for one specific game or like total active wheel users in the world across all racing games? Because I promise you there are significantly more than 250k people in the world who actively play racing games with wheels.

Are you sure about that buddy? On Steam the highest number of players on PC2 EVER was a little under 7,000 people, at this point in time there are only 370 people playing PC 2, in Asset Corsa Competizione, the "definitive" Sim racer, there are only 1,300 people playing, all-time peak as 7,200 people. It is safe to say the majority do not have steering wheels, but maybe in the high 20%.

Why am I using these figures and not sales figures, because 99.9% of players won't buy a periphery for a specific game they only play casually, only people who actually play the game frequently are going to drop hundreds of dollars on a steering wheel. wheels take up a lot of room, as do appropriate rigs.

The sim racing crowd does not understand how much of a tiny niche they are.

Further, on the intermediary argument.
Force feedback is a 100% made-up function that you guys fight over, a function that has no bearing to real-life physics, and is just a haptic to communicate the physics engine to you. If you are judging physics based on force feedback well then sorry to burst your bubble, but the force feedback is not realistic, it's just the intermediary to communicate a physics system. Real car steering wheels don't have anything resembling FFB, My rx7 with no power steering wheel does not ****ing shake, and never has. The only thing that really kicks back my steering wheel ( and an even snap your thumbs you are not careful) is race track curbs and the little ball dots they put in parking structures before a speed bump, oddly the speed bumps don't kick my steering back.

It is 100% possible to have a great physics system destroyed by a **** intermediary device.

 

[Goshin2568]

Are you sure about that buddy? On Steam the highest number of players on PC2 EVER was a little under 7,000 people, at this point in time there are only 370 people playing PC 2, in Asset Corsa Competizione, the "definitive" Sim racer, there are only 1,300 people playing, all-time peak as 7,200 people. It is safe to say the majority do not have steering wheels, but maybe in the high 20%.

Why am I using these figures and not sales figures, because 99.9% of players won't buy a periphery for a specific game they only play casually, only people who actually play the game frequently are going to drop hundreds of dollars on a steering wheel. wheels take up a lot of room, as do appropriate rigs.

The sim racing crowd does not understand how much of a tiny niche they are.

I think you're confusing "wheel owners" and "hard-core simracers", judging by the fact that you're using ACC and PC2 on steam as examples. The vast majority of wheel users are on console and are playing GT or Forza or F1.


Fanatec had $97 million in sales in 2021. Even if we said an average of $2,000 per customer, and that's extremely generous, that's 48,000 wheels sold. Now, consider that thrustmaster and logitech massively outsell fanatec, and then consider that that's only sales in single year. With my rough napkin math I'd guess there were in the range of 400-600k wheels sold just in 2021.


There are millions of wheels out there, and while they certainly are not all being actively used (and some people have more than one set), the number is much higher than 250k.

 

[MonoTonouS]

I think you're confusing "wheel owners" and "hard-core simracers", judging by the fact that you're using ACC and PC2 on steam as examples. The vast majority of wheel users are on console and are playing GT or Forza or F1.


Fanatec had $97 million in sales in 2021. Even if we said an average of $2,000 per customer, and that's extremely generous, that's 48,000 wheels sold. Now, consider that thrustmaster and logitech massively outsell fanatec, and then consider that that's only sales in single year. With my rough napkin math I'd guess there were in the range of 400-600k wheels sold just in 2021.


There are millions of wheels out there, and while they certainly are not all being actively used (and some people have more than one set), the number is much higher than 250k.

Fanatec does not just sell wheels, it sells pedals, shifters, etc. And no 2,000$ is not generous when the steering wheel without the base starts at 300$ and bases start at 400$, the GT7 bundle is like 1,000$, if you add in basics on the own DD pro sub menu, it spikes up to 1,450$. If you buy the rig it's well over 2,000$. Most serious sim racer's have, 5k + setups' I've seen some serious rig's that are 10K + in MODERN stuff, not accounting for the thousand spent on older setups.

And I quote "and some people have more than one set"- " not being actively used" .

Go back to my original comment, i said " active wheel users" not total wheel owners, it's not over 250k my guy: A active wheel user is someone who plays the game frequently with the wheel, it is not someone who pulls it out once a year or once a month.
It is most certainly not the total amount of wheels sold. We have hard data showing most people who bought GT sport played it for a shockingly short amount of time, just under 5% or so if I remember correctly actually played roe than a couple of races, I doubt a guy who played 2 hours spent money on a wheel, and if he did, is not an active wheel user because he played for two hours..

 

[Td04]

Compare the pair:

The BMW is faster than the Nissan but the Nissan is much easier to drive and more forgiving on the limit. It doesn't slide as easily and feels more progressive with the grip loss compared to the BMW. The BMW loses grip too quickly and you have to be more cautious on the throttle as a result. Notice the amount of corrections I'm having to make in the BMW.

350z Is amazing to drive.

 

[Rodion Raskol]

@MonoTonouS

The sim racing crowd does not understand how much of a tiny niche they are.

never a truer word been spoken. Ive met so many sad bstards who worship Jimmy Broadbent who lives in a shed in his mums garden so he can Sim race. I’ve tried setups costing over 10 k and it’s just not worth it. I’m considering a fanatec set up in their Black Friday sale but I won’t be going top tier everything. A lot of these people would be better buying a caterham and doing track days. Sim racers are a tad elitist I find.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Edit: question before my jibberish;
Has anyone been able to receive and record the FFB graphs from GT? Otherwise, everything stated by some is utter bullcrap. We have no clue as to what the signal is made up from, if its then filtered, compressed, de-essed, pseudo stereo widened, inverted, hard panned, ... You get my drift.

Regarding "there is no right or wrong when it comes to ffb",

Sure, whatever floats your boat. But!

It depends on many things, and VERY much on what size and weight your rim is.

Ive got a tx racing base with a light, plastic 28cm rim and a 35cm "heavy", nardi knockoff. The difference is like night and day, its completely different. No ffb setting on earth will make up for the change in feel. Its a matter of not only torque, but about speed and acceleration.

I guess most ppl who have a wheel enjoy thinking they are doing "real driving", but without a way to simulate sustained G force, its pretty much down to shaking and tilting your bum in more or less sophisticated ways, and, twisting your wrists more or less.

It is perfectly possible to model, calculate and transmit the EXACT steering force per car and tire and setup and blabla whatever developer puts in their physics model, into your hands. Its just a matter of interpretation. I suspect GT has interpreted in a completely novel way, since it behaves like nothing else hahaha. Maybe GT try to simulate Gforces into the wheel? Judging by some of the experts here, i understand GT ffb is broken by their own definition, as in, everything over 5 torque is clipping and 10 sens is like a 3630 on a daftpunk song.

Seems really strange to me that they make such a **** ffb that it will clip under its own output. Im imagining coupling a 4x12 to a walkman, and it clips lololololol. I mean if they are serious about simulation i guess those two small settings should be explained in deep detail since they are the only things connecting the game even vaguely to simulating anything. Thats not ranting on gt but on every sim too.

The limiting factor in simulating real force before dd wheels was the torque. It still is, because 8nm is right about what a road car can output to your hands, not close to a formula car, that could be more like 30nm....!
We now could have proper force by car type ,susp geo, tyre, and rim size and weight.

So, its a matter of perspective, you want to be A+/Superduper hero of the earth in your favourite simracing socks not breaking a sweat, you might want to turn everything down and drive with your fingers. Maybe put the rotation to 480deg (cheating lol).

Or, you are like me, have very limited time, want something to rip your palms from your wrists and have as close to 1:1 force when you get the chance to sit down and "drive".

Ill admit that ive tried both, and neither option is great on my base, for me. I feel id want quicker response, faster overall rotational speed and torque ofc.

And then, i think it should be completely feasible in the future, once more and more DD bases come along, to have a calculation per rim dia and weight in order to transfer the intended ffb as close to 1:1 as possible.

Idk just my thoughts, i know some guys ive raced with swear by some wheel or another, and in 9/10 times its always because of the pack mentality, the circle jerk, the schumacher within and the last time you won a race.

A real wheel calibration should be done with accelerometers in the future... Hmm.... How long....

ACC tries to replicate real world sensations in the FFB, as far as I've understood the matter. GT doesn't. Neither does AC. Not sure about other sims.
Again, I like the introduction to this video:

Personally I don't care how it feels compared to real life, as long as it's connected to the physics in all details important for handling, which I find GT7 does better than GTS and ACC.

As long as the inputs required for good handling is similar to real life, I'd say it's good practice for real life driving, no matter what vehicle's being used. I find GT7 driving to be excellent for real life motorcycle riding, which of course feels very different, but the most important and main principles when it comes to physics, inputs and handling are exactly the same.

And I agree fully that the lack of explanation of FFB in games is amateurish. PD should follow the sample of ACC above and talk more about it, in detail.

Finally, I hope you get your hands on a DD wheel soon, no matter what game you're playing. You deserve it. <3

 

[graesand]

@MonoTonouS

The sim racing crowd does not understand how much of a tiny niche they are.

never a truer word been spoken. Ive met so many sad bstards who worship Jimmy Broadbent who lives in a shed in his mums garden so he can Sim race. I’ve tried setups costing over 10 k and it’s just not worth it. I’m considering a fanatec set up in their Black Friday sale but I won’t be going top tier everything. A lot of these people would be better buying a caterham and doing track days. Sim racers are a tad elitist I find.

I agree 100%. When a setup cost more than a car, and what you wanted to do in the first place was driving, theres nothing more real than reality.... Im also guilty of having read most of the books on locost/super7 clone building... Let me say theres a very elaborate plan in the back of my mind on how id like to build one, some day.

But indeed time and money arent things we have for free, and thats where i feel sim racing gets its place, especially in a country like sweden where its dark, cold and rainy most of the time, not really driving weather for a light open sportscar, unless you have goretex skin.

But yeah, most DD setups are overpriced industrial servo motors with some proprietary, or generic, controller, im pretty sure well see more on the DIY side of things, consider the OpenFFBoard project, very good looking indeed..

 

[Firestone]

Understeer happens when it happens, it can be at shallow angles or greater ones, low speeds or high.

Look at the video I posed at 2:25. Look at the steering angle. Look at the throttle positioning. I allowed the cars weight to be neutral. The FRS simply doesn't respond like that. I did it various times in the video.

How do you know? You're just making that up. Driving is just based on the amount of grip your tires have anyways, which you feel and compensate for. It's what you work with when driving any car.

This is so off base I don't know what to say without coming off like an a-hole. You literally forced the car into understeer, and continued turning into it. This will NEVER rotate the car... ever, your front tires have given up grip, your steering angle is already far beyond the rate at which the car is turning, the chassis is no longer loaded against the front,

You literally criticized my approach to the turn in an earlier post on how I approached the turn unloading the fronts which they weren't unloaded. Based on the video, he approached the turn neutral gave it gas and the car broke free.
I have a 450whp Evo that I track on stock suspension. I know what unloaded tires will do to the car, especially with soft suspension under acceleration as the GSR has. The FRS's suspension is a lot stiffer in the front and rear and the inertial forces under acceleration do not throw off the suspension to the level as my Evo and the rear is relatively happy to kick out under throttle.

EXACTLY. This is the BASIS OF DRIVING. NOTHING HAPPENS WIHTOUT THE CHASSIS BEING BALANCED IN A CERTAIN WAY. How are you not getting that?

Evaluate the video :47 onwards. That's oversteer on power. He slides, regains grip, gets on power again and oversteer slide. The car does not respond in AC. Once the car finds grip, you can't power oversteer. These are the exact conditions that people are criticizing GT7's physics for. You don't need to balance the chassis a certain way to get these conditions.

I feel you are making an argument about this without testing it for yourself.

If you watch yourself in the AC video and don't see things wrong with the way you're understeering, then I can't help you. The tires are clearly not very grippy, but you do nothing to work with that at all. You just keep pushing into that damn understeer without mercy.

Please watch the video again. Ignore how I held on. That wasn't my point of the video. The same conditions happen in GT7.

Now instead of replying to this, go practice and watch driving fundamentals videos. I'm not gonna keep beating this dead horse

I'm saying this particular car is fundamentally wrong in AC. I owned the car. I know how snappy it is under power. The steering is very sharp and this car is happy to get sideways.

You have to be trolling, the things you say happen in that video but don't happen in AC are literally happening in your ac video lol, of course you lift off the throttle then intentionally make the car understeer (or you just have no idea what you are doing).

My main argument with the FRS in AC is it is very conditional. Another issue that I find is the loss of grip is a little too gradual. As if slow motion.
Post a video of the FRS under a sweeping corner under throttle with it's rear swinging out. It shouldn't take a certain skill to get the car in these conditions. Bad driving should take care of that.

 

[MonoTonouS]

I like how people who have never driven a car, claim a game's physics are more real than people who have driven it.

 

[Johnnn]

I like how people who have never driven a car, claim a game's physics are more real than people who have driven it.

Driving cars makes you better physicist?

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I like how people who have never driven a car, claim a game's physics are more real than people who have driven it.

People can have vastly different experience driving the same car. And when comparing the "same" car in real life and in a game, there are so many confounders that I don't put any weight in people's anecdotes unless they're very skilled in real life as well in the game, and unbiased in other imaginable ways.

"I commute in a Corvette and have tried track days, and haven't died yet, but in the game I can't go a full lap without a deadly crash - game must be broken". What's the conclusion to draw from that kind of post? I just ignore them.

 

[MonoTonouS]

Driving cars makes you better physicist?

You have no place telling someone who has tracked a car frequently what it should feel like unless you have driven it. There is this little magical thing called Qualia, A blind man may know what red is physical, describe its wavelength on the scale, be an expert on all the hues red could possibly be and how light interacts, etc. But if he was asked to look at red for the first time, he would not be able to tell red from blue . You, having not driven a car, can not possibly tell someone who has, that the car should feel X way, as you have never driven it.

This is why we have an objective test , but at the end of the day, reality surmounts simulation. There have been claims made here that are false because people who own the real car have done it and have provided video evidence it is possible. Unless you have the real-world car experience to back up what you are saying should be possible/ impossible, or video evidence onboard with telemetry, it's just conjecture. . I see a lot of bozoz saying AC has to be right , therefore any contrary video examples Must be "wrong" .

 

[Johnnn]

You have no place telling someone who has tracked a car frequently what it should feel like unless you have driven it. There is this little magical thing called Qualia, A blind man may know what red is physical, describe its wavelength on the scale, be an expert on all the hues red could possibly be and how light interacts, etc. But if he was asked to look at red for the first time, he would not be able to tell red from blue . You, having not driven a car, can not possibly tell someone who has, that the car should feel X way, as you have never driven it.

This is why we have an objective test , but at the end of the day, reality surmounts simulation. There have been claims made here that are false because people who own the real car have done it and have provided video evidence it is possible. Unless you have the real-world car experience to back up what you are saying should be possible/ impossible, or video evidence onboard with telemetry, it's just conjecture. . I see a lot of bozoz saying AC has to be right , therefore any contrary video examples Must be "wrong" .

If that's true, every sim would be the same. Reality says it's not true. Every sim is very different. They don't drive real cars or what? Pro drivers can't drive? What's the catch?

 

[driftnick13]

You have no place telling someone who has tracked a car frequently what it should feel like unless you have driven it.

Who are you talking about?

I see a lot of bozoz saying AC has to be right , therefore any contrary video examples Must be "wrong" .

More like one person saying you can't do something in AC then a bunch of other people proving him wrong, AC is not perfect but it's miles ahead of GT.

 

[MonoTonouS]

If that's true, every sim would be the same. Reality says it's not true. Every sim is very different. They don't drive real cars or what? Pro drivers can't drive? What's the catch?

Every sim would be the same if we somehow knew all the parameters that needed to be simulated and the correct values, the issue is processing power and some values are just wrong due to our data collection methods, and some aspects of the simulation may even be absent.

 

[Td04]

Irl videos says that Is not so hard spin out a Gt86 ,a rx8, 4c, s2000 etc.. if you are not an expert and drive properly. The point Is not that you can't start and hold a drift on Ac (i can't cause i am not good at drift, but this is not the point).
The point Is that i can take the car, drive it very bad, don't respect its balancing and never spin out.
And i know that now someone will say" production cars are understeer biased"...yes maybe with esp on, and at speed that you reach on street that are different, expeccially at braking ,from what you reach on track.
Its full of people who spin out suddenly the super balanced 50:50 rx8..
Same with gt86.
Gt7 suspension and weight transfer model are way better than AC ones.

 

[Skython]

Further, on the intermediary argument.
Force feedback is a 100% made-up function that you guys fight over, a function that has no bearing to real-life physics, and is just a haptic to communicate the physics engine to you. If you are judging physics based on force feedback well then sorry to burst your bubble, but the force feedback is not realistic, it's just the intermediary to communicate a physics system. Real car steering wheels don't have anything resembling FFB, My rx7 with no power steering wheel does not ****ing shake, and never has. The only thing that really kicks back my steering wheel ( and an even snap your thumbs you are not careful) is race track curbs and the little ball dots they put in parking structures before a speed bump, oddly the speed bumps don't kick my steering back.

It is 100% possible to have a great physics system destroyed by a **** intermediary device.

Yes, FFB is a made-up function. The reason people "fight" over it is because it's there to try and fill the gap a gaming steering wheel can never fill, the feel of actually being in a car going around corners and feeling the weight move around. The reason people bring up FFB in a physics discussion is because FFB represents parts of the sensation those physics would give you in real life, aiding you to understand what is happening in the game. So FFB essentially works in tandem with physics to give you an overall experience even if it isn't a realistic function.

Allegedly ACC tries to go down the "replicate real forces" route, and that's far more intuitive than Gran Turismo. While GT's FFB is absurd, it's the physics themselves that are the significant problem.

 

[graesand]

 

[extreme car]

You have no place telling someone who has tracked a car frequently what it should feel like unless you have driven it. There is this little magical thing called Qualia, A blind man may know what red is physical, describe its wavelength on the scale, be an expert on all the hues red could possibly be and how light interacts, etc. But if he was asked to look at red for the first time, he would not be able to tell red from blue . You, having not driven a car, can not possibly tell someone who has, that the car should feel X way, as you have never driven it.

This is why we have an objective test , but at the end of the day, reality surmounts simulation. There have been claims made here that are false because people who own the real car have done it and have provided video evidence it is possible. Unless you have the real-world car experience to back up what you are saying should be possible/ impossible, or video evidence onboard with telemetry, it's just conjecture. . I see a lot of bozoz saying AC has to be right , therefore any contrary video examples Must be "wrong" .

the irony in this post is off the charts.

We've got 30 year motoring industry pro who drives many different types of car and sims telling people how GT7 Physics is an improvement but it also came with downfall. He also said AC still has the superior physics and FFB compared to GT7 and he even provided all the necessary reading material on why that is.

We've got two experienced drifter that drift IRL that tried to teach and explain to them how to initiate the drift in AC properly but the wouldn't listen because "I CaN Do ThIS iN Gt7 bUT NoT in aC sO i'M RiGhT AnD YoU'Re wROnG".

We've got people who kept posting amateur drivers who hasn't got a clue how to balance their car properly and losing it on a corner to support their claim that all well balanced car is supposed to lose it every single corner exit.

I Guess if the GT7 fanboys are happy with current physics than I guess there is nothing more to disccuss here, I'm out.

by the way your RX-3 came with a worm and gear steering box right? that's why you can't feel anything when you drive the car on road just like how @Scaff explained to me on his experience driving his old land rover (I think? I forgot sorry) with the same old steering system.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Look at the video I posed at 2:25. Look at the steering angle. Look at the throttle positioning. I allowed the cars weight to be neutral. The FRS simply doesn't respond like that. I did it various times in the video.


You literally criticized my approach to the turn in an earlier post on how I approached the turn unloading the fronts which they weren't unloaded. Based on the video, he approached the turn neutral gave it gas and the car broke free.
I have a 450whp Evo that I track on stock suspension. I know what unloaded tires will do to the car, especially with soft suspension under acceleration as the GSR has. The FRS's suspension is a lot stiffer in the front and rear and the inertial forces under acceleration do not throw off the suspension to the level as my Evo and the rear is relatively happy to kick out under throttle.

Evaluate the video :47 onwards. That's oversteer on power. He slides, regains grip, gets on power again and oversteer slide. The car does not respond in AC. Once the car finds grip, you can't power oversteer. These are the exact conditions that people are criticizing GT7's physics for. You don't need to balance the chassis a certain way to get these conditions.

I feel you are making an argument about this without testing it for yourself.

Please watch the video again. Ignore how I held on. That wasn't my point of the video. The same conditions happen in GT7.


I'm saying this particular car is fundamentally wrong in AC. I owned the car. I know how snappy it is under power. The steering is very sharp and this car is happy to get sideways.


My main argument with the FRS in AC is it is very conditional. Another issue that I find is the loss of grip is a little too gradual. As if slow motion.
Post a video of the FRS under a sweeping corner under throttle with it's rear swinging out. It shouldn't take a certain skill to get the car in these conditions. Bad driving should take care of that.

I don't know why you keep posting the same videos

 

[GTboyz]

11. Car Behaviour
　- Adjusted the geometry calculations algorithm for the suspension. This has resulted in improved traction for rear-wheel drive cars and lessened reactions to weight transfer;
　- Adjusted the relationship between the controller inputs (Analogue stick, R2 button, Accelerator pedal on a steering wheel controller) and the position of the throttle.
　- Adjusted the steering speed of the analogue stick;
　- Adjusted the force feedback in the following steering wheel controllers:
　　・Fanatec® Podium
　　・Fanatec® GT DD Pro
　　・Fanatec® GT DD Pro + BoostKit

　- Adjusted the brake pressure control for all four brakes when entering a corner. As a result, the braking distance is reduced in general;

 

[xX Jojje Xx]

No FFB improvements on T300.
Maybe next time…

 

[Techlet]

Wonder why PD is making changes when according to the experts here there's absolutely nothing wrong with the physics or the FFB.

 

[Johnnn]

Wow, sounds great, I hope we won't get GTS controls.

 

[steve30x]

Ah no they are after changing the physics. I was hoping they would go closer to Shopping trolley physic , Sorry I meant realistic car phyisics /s

Seriously though the cars feel much better now

 

[steve30x]

I don't know why you keep posting the same videos

Because when you watch video online of racers driving then you are immediately an expert of said vehicle despite the fact you never drove the car in real life