Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
If my "work/play equipment" were to rattle, I would have a nervous breakdown.. That to me is just like a squeaky door hinge or any other kind of thing that makes noise without being specifically built for that purpose.
It's a no go.

I really think the belt drive on my T248 is okay, especially for the price. And yes, I can already feel the difference in grip on many cars. The difficulty still remains to catch the car :D.
 
The difficulty still remains to catch the car :D.
If you hold the wheel just on the slip edge and the rear let's go, is it really difficult to catch then? I find that it becomes impossible only when I turn way past that edge, which doesn't decrease the turning radius anyway, and then when the rear let's go the car just explodes into a barrier.

Also, @PirovacBoy made me try FFB sensitivity 10 again. Especially with lower FFB max torque, I find that it becomes easier to catch slides. Might be worth a try, especially if you like a lighter wheel.
 
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I’ve always read it should be set to 1 for the most granular FFB?
I've used both the Logitech G29 and Fanatec DD Pro, and use Sensitivity of 2, and that feels pretty good. It seems that advice to keep it at 3 or below works best. FFB above 5 seems to clip, and man, I've cut back to 3 and it feels more natural and easier on the hands. You guys who like high FFB must use it for a workout. :lol:
 
At least on a DD with low INT value (smoothing), slipping is felt very, very clearly - the FFB feels like it starts clipping; it goes from lively, bumpy, crunchy, buzzy to totally smooth. It's like a very clear "edge" in FFB that you need to balance.

My first opinion was that it's ****. But it actually works very well. For me it's much better than the FFB in GTS.
I have said it multiple times the FFB is pretty good in GT7 in my opinion.. I also only drive in cockpit view too so that helps me with the sensations.. for example when you do an S turn the way the chassis moves from side to side match the sensation on my wheel. When you drive on Tokyo you can feel the gutters and also those small speed bumps in the road the sensation is pretty cool! Where I would like to see major improvements is just when driving straight. It has gotten better than GTS but we need better.. give me 50% what you get in ACC/AC and I will cry tears of joy! I have been driving the Porsches for almost a month now.. and the way you can feel the chassis improved over there years are amazing. I think once you get to the 997 they become kinda to easy to drive I really do hope we get more Porsches!

@Tenacious D He is talking about the sensitivity bro.
 
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Multi-faceted in which way?
Multi-faceted in that it could be global physics/tire model/modeling of specific cars/FFB/calibration of individual wheels all contributing to divergent experiences some of us seem to be having. Btw, you will know when I disagree, I don't tip toe around.
The 997 handles extremely well and has very good traction on throttle and great turn!
I've driven both the 996 and 997 GT3s IRL and the level of squat and traction out of turns is unreal...especially when compared with most FR cars. But in GT7, I get too much play from the rear on entry/mid/exit. Don't get me wrong, this gives you a overwhelming sense that you are piloting a RR car, but IRL, the ability to get on the power early is unbelievable and this is just not the case in GT7. Said in a simple way -- the sensations of the RR platform are informative and full of character, but a bit overdramatic...and the lack of stability, especially on exit from the rear needs adjustment.

The best way I can describe it is -- it feels like it is doing a little wheelie coming out of turns. Now, I'm exaggerating here a bit...but that lifting front axle combined with the torquing rear is truly a unique sensation.
 
Multi-faceted in that it could be global physics/tire model/modeling of specific cars/FFB/calibration of individual wheels all contributing to divergent experiences some of us seem to be having. Btw, you will know when I disagree, I don't tip toe around.

I've driven both the 996 and 997 GT3s IRL and the level of squat and traction out of turns is unreal...especially when compared with most FR cars. But in GT7, I get too much play from the rear on entry/mid/exit. Don't get me wrong, this gives you a overwhelming sense that you are piloting a RR car, but IRL, the ability to get on the power early is unbelievable and this is just not the case in GT7. Said in a simple way -- the sensations of the RR platform are informative and full of character, but a bit overdramatic...and the lack of stability, especially on exit from the rear needs adjustment.

The best way I can describe it is -- it feels like it is doing a little wheelie coming out of turns. Now, I'm exaggerating here a bit...but that lifting front axle combined with the torquing rear is truly a unique sensation.
I honestly like the Porsche for that main reason you described.. vs the FR the turn in is incredible the way I can Coast mid turn then come out the turns is the best sensation.. again I’ve been also driving them for a month straight lol.. I agree I was a little shaky with the 996/997 more so the 996 at first. Trying to balance the chassis was tough at first, once I got use to the steering input which is a lot less than your typical FR the car got a lot better for me.
 
I'm slowly adjusting to the ice skaters in this game, but I can say I am definitely much "sorer" after the races than I used to be. Keeping the car pointed forward has my arms and right leg burning from having to provide such finely-tuned adjustments all the time. It reminds me of when they had to pry Senna out of his McLaren in Brazil in 1991. I'm just beat, especially on longer GR4/GR3 races on technical tracks.
 
I'm slowly adjusting to the ice skaters in this game, but I can say I am definitely much "sorer" after the races than I used to be. Keeping the car pointed forward has my arms and right leg burning from having to provide such finely-tuned adjustments all the time. It reminds me of when they had to pry Senna out of his McLaren in Brazil in 1991. I'm just beat, especially on longer GR4/GR3 races on technical tracks.
Yeah I'm using controller atm and I feel I'm gonna give myself RSI if I play this game for more than 2 hours a day! I know it's not as tiring as using a wheel but this game is incredibly demanding in terms of precision
 
I’ve always read it should be set to 1 for the most granular FFB?
Sure, it's still true in a way, but if you lower FFB max torque, or FF in your DD, the low forces become non-existent and feel sloppy, making some situations more difficult to judge and react to. Nothing controversial - just make sure you can feel everything and that it never feels sloppy.
Low max torque is best combined with high sens. And with high max torque, high sens shouldn't be needed.

I like the wheel to be as light as possible but strong enough that I can feel everything.
 
Sure, it's still true in a way, but if you lower FFB max torque, or FF in your DD, the low forces become non-existent and feel sloppy, making some situations more difficult to judge and react to. Nothing controversial - just make sure you can feel everything and that it never feels sloppy.
Low max torque is best combined with high sens. And with high max torque, high sens shouldn't be needed.

I like the wheel to be as light as possible but strong enough that I can feel everything.
Ah ok. That makes sense and is not explained at all well in game. I run torque at 4 but sometimes do go down to 3 so will experiment
 
Ah ok. That makes sense and is not explained at all well in game. I run torque at 4 but sometimes do go down to 3 so will experiment
Agree, it's frustrating that it's not explained well. Instead everyone says "personal preference", which is just lazy.

8 Nm, GT DD wheel, 100% FF and 3 in-game max torque, I'd highly suggest FFB sens 10. You'll feel less sloppiness and should be able to react quicker.
Let us know how you find it!
 
Nope. Regardless if the tires are loaded or unloaded, the progressive steering input with the full throttle should rotate the car. There are countless posts of examples with this with the car.
This is so off base I don't know what to say without coming off like an a-hole. You literally forced the car into understeer, and continued turning into it. This will NEVER rotate the car... ever, your front tires have given up grip, your steering angle is already far beyond the rate at which the car is turning, the chassis is no longer loaded against the front, the rears are doing nothing but pushing what are essentially locked up front tires. There is NOTHING to be learned from forced understeer other than how to avoid it. You are saying the "car should do something" when you've fundamentally ruined it's ability to do anything by driving it completely wrong. Until you get the tires reconnected to the tarmac you're showing us nothing but terrible driving.
You're mixing things up a lot here though, the M6 doesn't suffer at all from any uncontrollable oversteer from a sudden loss of rear axle grip. If you write something like that, I unfortunately have to doubt everything. The M6 is extremely stable on the road even at the high-speed curves, airfield, Kottenborn, Schwerdenkreuz, courage curve and others, even at over 280 km/h in some cases. If the M6 had any "snap" inclination, it would never go flat at the latest at the Schwedenkreuz.

The M6 has a mighty torque even in the CE of well over 700NM and that even at almost any speed. That's why many drivers keep throwing the car off the track. Here you have to "simply" learn how much gas pedal is possible.
You can write what you want about many other cars, I won't rate it unless I know these cars as well as the M6, but THIS BMW drives fantastic and I won't give a damn. ( I would even recommend this car to Gr3 beginners as it requires some feel but is still very predictable and good natured. )
You're a little heavy handed aren't ya? I said "likely" broken, and never did I specify in the M6 why I feel it belongs on that list. As Techlet kindly showed, it's not just me. Someone whos whole career is playing GT and racing IRL feels that the M6 isn't correct, and he's not the only one, Broadbent struggled, and so did many others. It's a difficult car to drive, and it can be tamed, but just because it can be dealt with does not mean the car is correct. I can handle the damn thing, I've golded and re-golded the Ring CE in it ABS only on a T300rs, it can be driven, but that doesn't make it right. I'd really love to know what you think I'm "mixing up".

It's simply not planted when it should be. True it is much better when you gain speed and downforce, but in slower sections it's just not firmly planted on its tires. It's too nervous on throttle. While the oversteer isn't quite "snappy", when it does begin to step it's early, and very often hard to recover. The real crux, is that it does not emulate the solidarity of the real life car in comparison to other GR3 cars. I.E. possibly broken. There are reasons the Ring CE is seen universally as a harder than normal challenge, and it's not for nothing.

I'm glad you like it, but I'd wager you have more seat time in it than most others, and with the rest of the GR3 cars being "better", most of us are staying away from the killer BMW that takes much more concentration and whiter knuckles to keep sorted.

TL;DR just because a car can be handled doesn't make it right. Broken cars and ability are two different conversations.

I'll bite. :) Try the classic Alpine A110 at Tsukuba, it's very unhinged for a car with 140HP, especially in the hairpins. The line between spinning out and not losing grip at all is much finer than it should be. I find it's okay at higher speeds but slow tight turns are strangely ridiculous.
Sounds like fun! I should have some time today to give her a spin. I also take pretty much everything to Tsukuba to sort it out before really using it, and this fits perfectly.

EDIT: Just went into the game and I haven't yet got the A110 in 7 yet... and it looks like there is no where to buy it at the moment. I could have sworn I had it in the garage from winning it in some event, but I guess not.
 
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This is so off base I don't know what to say without coming off like an a-hole. You literally forced the car into understeer, and continued turning into it. This will NEVER rotate the car... ever, your front tires have given up grip, your steering angle is already far beyond the rate at which the car is turning, the chassis is no longer loaded against the front, the rears are doing nothing but pushing what are essentially locked up front tires. There is NOTHING to be learned from forced understeer other than how to avoid it. You are saying the "car should do something" when you've fundamentally ruined it's ability to do anything by driving it completely wrong. Until you get the tires reconnected to the tarmac you're showing us nothing but terrible driving.

You're a little heavy handed aren't ya? I said "likely" broken, and never did I specify in the M6 why I feel it belongs on that list. As Techlet kindly showed, it's not just me. Someone whos whole career is playing GT and racing IRL feels that the M6 isn't correct, and he's not the only one, Broadbent struggled, and so did many others. It's a difficult car to drive, and it can be tamed, but just because it can be dealt with does not mean the car is correct. I can handle the damn thing, I've golded and re-golded the Ring CE in it ABS only on a T300rs, it can be driven, but that doesn't make it right. I'd really love to know what you think I'm "mixing up".

It's simply not planted when it should be. True it is much better when you gain speed and downforce, but in slower sections it's just not firmly planted on its tires. It's too nervous on throttle. While the oversteer isn't quite "snappy", when it does begin to step it's early, and very often hard to recover. The real crux, is that it does not emulate the solidarity of the real life car in comparison to other GR3 cars. I.E. possibly broken. There are reasons the Ring CE is seen universally as a harder than normal challenge, and it's not for nothing.

I'm glad you like it, but I'd wager you have more seat time in it than most others, and with the rest of the GR3 cars being "better", most of us are staying away from the killer BMW that takes much more concentration and whiter knuckles to keep sorted.

TL;DR just because a car can be handled doesn't make it right. Broken cars and ability are two different conversations.


Sounds like fun! I should have some time today to give her a spin. I also take pretty much everything to Tsukuba to sort it out before really using it, and this fits perfectly.

EDIT: Just went into the game and I haven't yet got the A110 in 7 yet... and it looks like there is no where to buy it at the moment. I could have sworn I had it in the garage from winning it in some event, but I guess not.
As I said and that has to be taken into account 750NM torque base and still over 720NM at BoP (I think it's somewhere around 730NM) I don't have many Gr3 cars yet but the ones I have tend to have significantly less. On top of that, that torque is a veritable plateau, which is somewhere around 2500 to about 5750 revolutions, in connection with the rather long 6-speed gearbox.. well that can cause problems. I took a look at the Corvette and even that has less torque.

Bottom line I think the M6 is right the way it is.. It's a beast or a diva but it can also be an angel and to me it has incredible charm/character. Driven with TCS1 you can kick it pretty hard as long as you stay away from grip-reducing curbs.
 
Agree, it's frustrating that it's not explained well. Instead everyone says "personal preference", which is just lazy.

8 Nm, GT DD wheel, 100% FF and 3 in-game max torque, I'd highly suggest FFB sens 10. You'll feel less sloppiness and should be able to react quicker.
Let us know how you find it!
Weird, because Fanatec themselves recommend sensitivity at 1, as it is backwards ingame, meaning the lower the value, the more sensitive it is.
 
I just think we need to lighten up the mood here at times, so i found this and it made med giggle hehe. Frontflip uphill, thats as reals as it gets! Lol



That channel has alot more gems for those looking for a laugh.
 
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Weird, because Fanatec themselves recommend sensitivity at 1, as it is backwards ingame, meaning the lower the value, the more sensitive it is.
You have to look at the whole picture, all of the parameters combined.
If you use 100% FF on a 8 Nm wheelbase with 5 in-game max torque, then FFB sensitivity 1 is most likely best, at least with the small and light GT wheel (28 cm, 1 kg). But I'm slower with a wheel this strong, and most people seem to be, since it's difficult to be precise and quick with that much resistance, especially in longer races. When you lower the max torque ("max volume"), dynamic range needs to be compressed so that you can feel the smallest forces as well ("weakest sounds"), hence increasing the FFB sensitivity until the weakest forces can be felt clearly.

Fanatec said something among these lines somewhere in the forums - I won't try to find it now.

If you listen to classical music in your car on the highway, you won't hear the faintest notes until you increase volume so much that your speakers distort and you damage your hearing. That's where compression comes in. All pop, metal and whatever music is compressed, to be easy to listen to in noisy environments without cranking the volume too much, if at all possible. Classical is mostly listened to in quiet environments with good speakers or headphones, hence no compression needed. Yeah, somewhat off-topic... But still relevant.

Please let me know if I'm bull****ting. I don't think I am.
 
I agree I was a little shaky with the 996/997 more so the 996 at first. Trying to balance the chassis was tough at first
Yes the 997 is more stable, has a lot to do with the longer wheelbase...think it grew 4 inches or so from the 996 if I remember correctly.

What would be interesting is if PD could give us a Carrera 4S to play with...that rear engine/AWD package may be sublime under current physics...but then again, the scheduled update on Sun may bring all kinds of surprises.
 
I thought the 996 was one of the best handling cars I have driven in GT7. Yes you can get the bsck end to move but the car is insanely controllable and driftable. Its so fun.
 
The problem with the 996 is that I get NO information through the wheel when the rear end decides it wants to keep coming around during longer corners. I basically have to watch the screen to see if the car is still going after I've stopped turning, and by that point, I'm already on the back foot and have milliseconds to react.
 
So I'm very much against dumbing down the physics ....But that said and to be fair

I drove the GR4 Supra for about 25 minutes and outside of hitting a bad curb it feels impossible to spin - its extremely planted its basically GTSport

But then I drove the GR3 Audi LMS R8 .... wow, I spun about a half dozen times in about 20 mins ....Red Bull Ring, it was only in lower gear corners so I'm assuming the differential is too tight (haven't testing tuning the settings) but any time I was in 2nd *mostly but sometimes 3rd gear the car very much wants to spin ..... This can't be changed in BOP races (as said before)

I'm really not sure if this is a Physics issue though or a FFB issue because It Spins mid-corner always when you CAN'T FEEL ANY FFB .... Then once the car breaks loose the FFB is great at telling me what I did wrong - Just doesn't give me any warning or feel that I'm on the edge of grip .... I suspect if I could actually feel the car (Rather than having to be Psychic during the Numb phase mid-corner) I could probably keep it form spinning

but it feels like a combination of the Differential and lack of FFB thats the issue ... I doubt they have to re-work the entire physics model to tweak out either of these issues because some of the cars feel great and I actually like how they get loose - problem is with higher power cars and higher speeds and the stupid Numb-zone of No FFB mid corner
 
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This is so off base I don't know what to say without coming off like an a-hole. You literally forced the car into understeer, and continued turning into it. This will NEVER rotate the car... ever, your front tires have given up grip, your steering angle is already far beyond the rate at which the car is turning, the chassis is no longer loaded against the front, the rears are doing nothing but pushing what are essentially locked up front tires. There is NOTHING to be learned from forced understeer other than how to avoid it. You are saying the "car should do something" when you've fundamentally ruined it's ability to do anything by driving it completely wrong. Until you get the tires reconnected to the tarmac you're showing us nothing but terrible driving.
Incorrect. Application of throttle happens at turn in. The car shouldn’t understeer in the way it did. The car should swing itself around on throttle input. Front and rear suspension on the GT86 is rather stiff. There isn’t enough transmitted load from acceleration to throw off the front load. There are posted examples of this in the thread already. I owned this car. I know how snappy turn in is.
 
You have to look at the whole picture, all of the parameters combined.
If you use 100% FF on a 8 Nm wheelbase with 5 in-game max torque, then FFB sensitivity 1 is most likely best, at least with the small and light GT wheel (28 cm, 1 kg). But I'm slower with a wheel this strong, and most people seem to be, since it's difficult to be precise and quick with that much resistance, especially in longer races. When you lower the max torque ("max volume"), dynamic range needs to be compressed so that you can feel the smallest forces as well ("weakest sounds"), hence increasing the FFB sensitivity until the weakest forces can be felt clearly.

Fanatec said something among these lines somewhere in the forums - I won't try to find it now.

If you listen to classical music in your car on the highway, you won't hear the faintest notes until you increase volume so much that your speakers distort and you damage your hearing. That's where compression comes in. All pop, metal and whatever music is compressed, to be easy to listen to in noisy environments without cranking the volume too much, if at all possible. Classical is mostly listened to in quiet environments with good speakers or headphones, hence no compression needed. Yeah, somewhat off-topic... But still relevant.

Please let me know if I'm bull****ting. I don't think I am.
No, you're spot on. This is exactly how it works. I will say, at 3 FFB in game, 10 sensitivity feels a little high, I think you're compressing the dynamic range perhaps a bit more than you need to, but if you prefer that feeling and/or you're faster that way then more power to you.
 
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I wonder if they’ll wipe the leaderboards when they change the physics? I hope not, but they did that at least twice in GTS iirc.
 
I just couldn’t resist to throw me in the latest discussion.
So here I am 😅
Ok, my Dudes, listen up.
Lots of People here talk about not feeling adequate ForceFeedback.
I‘m here to say that I have good News for you out there.
At least if you‘re using a Fanatec CSL DD 8NM Equipped Wheelbase, because I’m about to explain you how good and extremely detailed the ForceFeedback in GT7 can be felt by simply using the following Settings.
First of all, I want you all to forget the Fanatec Recommended Settings, at least partly.
Do you want to get faster and more consistent??
Do you want to feel ALL the Details GT7 has to offer?!
Yes?
Good.
Then listen up.
I want you Guys to do what I’m about to tell you, because I know what I’m talking about.
And please, don’t question my Suggestions.
Just apply them, use them, get used to them, and trust me you’re going to experience a completely new Experience in GT7.
Whow, so much BlahBlah already without Substance 😅
Ok, here we go.
For the Official GT DD Rim, I want you to set the in Game Torque to 4
The Sensitivity MUST be set to 10
Yes 10!!!
In your Wheelbase Settings I want you to put NDP to 0
The INT to 3
If you use a bigger Rim for example the McLaren GT3 Rim, then crank the in Game FFB Torque up to 5, BUT!!! lower the FFB Strength on your Wheelbase to 90%.
It equals to the FFB output on 4 with the Official Rim in that case.
With these Settings I guarantee you, that you‘ll feel everything you need to feel that GT7 has on offer.
With these Settings you have a the absolute Ultimate Sensation with your CSL DD Wheelbase.
No clipping, you’ll get the whole Dynamic Range from the the slightest subtle Feedback all the way up to the heavy very pronounced Road/Track Surface Feedback.

I don’t get the People who use a 8NM Torque Supplied Wheelbase and complain about not being able to feel sufficient Feedback.
How on Earth do you Guys want to get detailed Feedback when putting InGame Torque to 2 or 3 and Sensitivity to 1 😂
I mean honestly, What’s the point in having such a Potent Wheelbase and not making use of its Potential.
It’s beyond me.
Because Fanatec recommends it?
Trust me, I assure you that I 100% know what I’m talking about.
Just apply those Settings I mentioned.
My only!!! Motivation why I post this is because I want you DD Pro Users to enjoy the Game in the best possible way.
I‘m no Messiah or any kind of Specialist.
But I know what we all are looking for.

I play Racing Games with FFB Wheels for over 20years now and I pretty much can say that I know how to read and encrypt the Games‘ specific FFB Language.

There also are some Threads around here which pretty much back up my Conclusions 100%.
And to absolutely ensure you undecided Dudes, I also talked to some World Class World Tour Competitors, which I’m not going to mention here, and they ALL absolutely agree with my Observations.
If that still isn’t enough to convince you…well, than do what you want to do and play the Game how you think it feels best to you or how Fanatec recommends it to be best played with 😂 Sheep Mode activated.
In that case, I don’t care anymore.
Fanatec recommends NDP 38.
I mean really?! 😅
They also recommended in Game Sensitivity 1.
What 😅, 1 😂
And one more thing.
NEVER!!! death Grip your Rim, never.
Always think about playing a Piano.
You want to feel all the details.
Loose Arms and Hands on the Rim.
Very important!!!
Become one with your Steering Wheel.
Be open to receive all Information your Wheel has to offer.
Listen carefully to the little details.
Because the devil is in the Details.
Be aware.
Pay attention.
Be focused.
Take your time.
Listen and learn.
There’s so much going on with GT7s‘ FFB which can easily be overheard.
Don’t be that Guy 😅
And now, go.
Listen and learn.
Adapt.
Open your mind and feel the intensity GT7 has to offer, with my Recommended Settings for the Fanatec DD Wheelbase.
Practice and become faster.
From now on it’s up to you.
If I can, so can you 😁
 
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After reading Pirovac's post Im assuming Im using the wrong settings with my Fanatec CSL Elite wheel as well....(also currently using Fanatec Recommended) ....not really sure why since Ive never foumd them to be correct with any other game in the past ... guess Ill have to test it when I play tonight
 
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After reading Pirovac's post Im assuming Im using the wrong settings with my Fanatec CSL Elite wheel as well....(also currently using Fanatec Recommended) ....not really sure why since Ive never foumd them to be correct with any other game in the past ... guess Ill have to test it when I play tonight
Fanatec are a Great Company when it comes down to offer us the Tools we want to have, but they are no SimRacers.
My experience is my Guide and I assure you that even on your non DD Wheelbase, if you use In Game torque on 4-5 depending on your Rim Size/Diameter and very importantly, in Game Sensitivity on 10!!! You‘ll notice the difference immediately.
The increase in detail is astonishing.
The Dynamics are so well pronounced and communicated that yo‘ll never go back once you adapted.
Just take your time.
Accommodate to it.
And most importantly, DONT switch back.
Keep those Settings and use them religiously.
And listen.
To the FFB.
Be Focused.
Become one with the Game 😅
 
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