Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[JDMKING13]

The limit in these road cars is nowhere near as silly as it is in gt7. 350z and mx5 just spinning out so easily at very low speeds is completely broken.

But this is for you I am having no trouble driving the Z to the limits with everything off except ABS weak…

 

[Keef]

This is going to sound off the wall, but I have a hypothesis developing. The hypothesis is that the "physics" that we are experimenting early in the game may not be what PD has in mind for us. Allow me to explain with an even weirder example that will demonstrate where this line of thought comes from. A quick background:

My 14 year old daughter has unexpectedly taken over my PS5 playing GT7. Yes I am dying to play some more but I don't have it in my heart to stunt the possibility of a budding sim racer and I have been intermittently coaching her between relaxing Friday beers with my wife.. She has never been interested in car games. She's inexperienced and has been playing through on easy AI (which doesn't seem much different than what I have seen on hard) and with TCS 2 or 3 depending on the car. ABS Default but no other assists besides TCS.

She mangled a few of my gold times on the first round of license tests.

She was doing great until the FR American muscle car menu which is farther than I have advanced. Using the stock '69 Camaro Z28 she managed Willow Springs all by herself. But at Blue Moon Bay infield she hit a brick wall. The car was all over the place and causing her to overdrive because the AI seemed to be much quicker than normal. I saw she was on comfort tires and suggested buying sport tires. That helped but she couldn't get higher than 4th. So I suggested sport suspension. That's when everything changed. After that she hit the track and murdered the AI. The Camaro was still a bit skittish but much more planted than before. It was an instantaneous improvement.

Here comes my train of thought behind my hypothesis: Considering how good the preorder Mazda GT3 feels, could it be that PD has deliberately implemented a tiered dynamic model that is purposely flawed on base street cars for the sole reason being to convince us to start tuning cars? There are reasons to support this insane idea spinning in my head:

1) Traditional collecting and tuning has returned .
2) Gameplay seems weighted to at least improve your tires to be successful, as demonstrated by the progressive increase in AI difficulty after unlocking the tune shop.
3) Sport Mode open to tuning.
4) Luca in the cafe repeatedly tells us to tune cars for performance and stability.
5) Overwhelming bias in the GT Auto talking heads towards tire and suspension upgrades.
6) Microtransactions to "fix" the "flaws" in the dynamic model by buying upgrades that are needed to make the car feel "normal' I admit this is tin foil hat territory but I feel it's important to at least have the idea out there.

It's as if PD is saying "buy tuning parts or your car will be undrivable".

This is a really insane train of thought. The thing is, sometimes you learn more observing a rookie than you learn with your own preconceived beliefs that have been baked into your brain from previous experiences. What to you guys think of this nutcase (or purely rational) post?

I don’t think so. I think our driving difficulties line up pretty accurately with the various mistakes I’ve made while actually learning to drive on the street and track. Some of which made it obvious that my stock car was terrible and want to tune it. Cars really do improve that much when they’re modified properly lol.

 

[Scaff]

The limit in these road cars is nowhere near as silly as it is in gt7. 350z and mx5 just spinning out so easily at very low speeds is completely broken.

Allow me to repeat myself, as you seem to have missed it despite worrying me.

"Don't get me wrong, something (which is suspect is to do with grip limits) is off in GT7".

 

[CBH]

@Scaff I was thinking it could be a weight transfer issue but not anymore, it's a grip limit on the rear tires.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Allow me to repeat myself, as you seem to have missed it despite worrying me.

"Don't get me wrong, something (which is suspect is to do with grip limits) is off in GT7".

Sorry. I didn’t mean to sound snappy. Just the imperfection of written communication. I’m just very frustrated at what feels like a big regression in my opinion and I’m really quite down about it as GTS was such a great escape for me.

 

[Scaff]

Sorry. I didn’t mean to sound snappy. Just the imperfection of written communication. I’m just very frustrated at what feels like a big regression in my opinion and I’m really quite down about it as GTS was such a great escape for me.

One 'fix' to try is fitting better tyres and then using a power limiter/ballast to get the PP back down to the pre tyre change level.

It's not ideal, but it does help.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

One 'fix' to try is fitting better tyres and then using a power limiter/ballast to get the PP back down to the pre tyre change level.

It's not ideal, but it does help.

I always buy the sports soft but the racing tyres are so expensive I’m really trying to avoid spending money on any of these cars unless I have to as I’ll never look at them again let alone drive them. Everything I’m doing is solely to enable me to play online down the road. I’d happily pay a one off charge to skip all this and have a online BoP mode with all the cars available. It’s really not about the cars at all for me it’s about the racing.

 

[BigSarj]

I always buy the sports soft but the racing tyres are so expensive I’m really trying to avoid spending money on any of these cars unless I have to as I’ll never look at them again let alone drive them. Everything I’m doing is solely to enable me to play online down the road. I’d happily pay a one off charge to skip all this and have a online BoP mode with all the cars available. It’s really not about the cars at all for me it’s about the racing.

I'm the same. Other than the Cooper they force you to upgrade, I've bought an air intake for another car and that's it. All my credits would be better spent for sport mode.

 

[mwoodski]

I'm the same. Other than the Cooper they force you to upgrade, I've bought an air intake for another car and that's it. All my credits would be better spent for sport mode.

I've generally bought sports suspension, sports tires, and some sort of wheel for every car I use more often just because they look better that way.

The full racing exhaust changing the appearance of the exhaust on a car is really cool too.

 

[danardif1]

Having done the Willow/Corvette Licence test I do understand some more of the concerns raised. It does feel a bit over the top in terms of how little grip there was, and the TC didn't really help it either.

I wonder if it's even something to do with torque within the physics model, which is why it's more apparent in this big torquey muscle cars?

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I’m starting to think that they’ve deliberately made the cars so hard to drive so you’re forced to spend credits to heavily upgrade it. And credits are hard to come by so what are you going to do to be competitive when you need quick credits.
Alternative is they tested the game before release and we’re completely happy with it which is more insane than my conspiracy theory.

 

[Scaff]

Having done the Willow/Corvette Licence test I do understand some more of the concerns raised. It does feel a bit over the top in terms of how little grip there was, and the TC didn't really help it either.

I wonder if it's even something to do with torque within the physics model, which is why it's more apparent in this big torquey muscle cars?

Nope, it's tyres and the grip level the offer.

Torque is multiplied by gears which is why it's more of an issue in higher torque cars and in lower gear corners. If you own the C7 in game then just fit the next grade up tyres on it and give it a go, problem (mainly) solved.

 

[4everdelayed]

On game pad, I'm about ready to give up going for all gold on license test A-9 (white NSX). Somehow on my 2nd attempt I was 21 milliseconds from gold. No joke at least 50 attempts later no matter which ghost I use or what my assist settings are or controller steer sensitivity is I still can't get closer than ~250 milliseconds away from gold.

It feels like the car just WON'T TURN. The max amount of steering wheel rotation I'm seeing on screen is 90 degrees, as in the driver's hand at 3/6 o'clock stops at 12 o'clock when turning fully either way at any speed.

I'm expecting the wheel to rotate AT LEAST 180 degrees when I have the analog stick all the way to one side for a long time at a reasonable speed.

What's going on? No amount of slowing down is helping.

Practice more? But you really don't need to get gold in every test anyway. It's supposed to be highest reward for this challenge and doesn't prevent you from progressing in the game.

Besides... we are literally one day after the launch of the game... play it more, take your time to get familiar with it, and in a few days or weeks come back to that challenge and you'll probably get gold quickly.

 

[Toyota Camry]

Practice more? But you really don't need to get gold in every test anyway. It's supposed to be highest reward for this challenge and doesn't prevent you from progressing in the game.

Besides... we are literally one day after the launch of the game... play it more, take your time to get familiar with it, and in a few days or weeks come back to that challenge and you'll probably get gold quickly.

I'm not giving up, I'll get it eventually, I just feel like whatever I have yet to learn still hasn't clicked. In this case it's extra frustrating because my 2nd try of barely knowing what to expect I got closer than I did in the next 50+ tries. I also know gold is not a requirement, but accepting silver means missing out on reward cars and the opportunity to improve. Really just looking for help here, not just complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

[BigSarj]

I'm not giving up, I'll get it eventually, I just feel like whatever I have yet to learn still hasn't clicked. In this case it's extra frustrating because my 2nd try of barely knowing what to expect I got closer than I did in the next 50+ tries. I also know gold is not a requirement, but accepting silver means missing out on reward cars and the opportunity to improve. Really just looking for help here, not just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Gold is actually important. If I hadn't golded the second set of licenses, I wouldn't have gotten the FR JDM that I needed for the next menu book. I would have had to spend money to fix up some other weak car. So golding licenses will certainly save you money.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Gold is actually important. If I hadn't golded the second set of licenses, I wouldn't have gotten the FR JDM that I needed for the next menu book. I would have had to spend money to fix up some other weak car. So golding licenses will certainly save you money.

Depends on how long it takes to get the gold though. If you clear the license first try in 10 minutes but it takes 3 hours to gold then it could be a false economy.

 

[danardif1]

Nope, it's tyres and the grip level the offer.

Torque is multiplied by gears which is why it's more of an issue in higher torque cars and in lower gear corners. If you own the C7 in game then just fit the next grade up tyres on it and give it a go, problem (mainly) solved.

I have found Sports Softs make for a much nicer time. I have driven the Alpine quite a bit though on the Sport Hards and that seems quite nice to drive even with that weight at the rear. Slides seem predictable and controllable for the most part.

 

[Symtex]

The reality is that there is no manufacturer in the world that makes "Comfort" tires for the Corvette. You either buy the high performance Michelin or you don't. No one would ever go on a track with non performance tire in 460lbs torque RWD car. The Corvette is very stable in corner at high speed. you have to maintain throttle at best. You are not not cruising here. In the video I posted. you can clearly see Randy Post going 97mph and accelerating after he hit the apex, He came out of the corner at 114mph. The car didn't twitch, it didn't want to dance.

 

[Hobson]

I think that there is the same issue with the physics that also had GT Sport at the release. There doesn't move enough weight to the rear when the car accelerates what makes it unstable. You also see the missing weight transfer because there is not much movement at the suspension.

I had an RX-8 in real life and it was so stable and easy to drive because there was no torque. In GT7 the RX-8 is horrible to drive and the perfect car to do a suicide.

I hope and think that they will fix this issue soon.

I'm in the exact same boat, big rotary guy, drift addict, G35 6MT RWD sedan in real life for the past 7yrs, and someone who lives in a place that gets snow for 5 months out of the year in northern WI. When I say I've got more rear end grip on a dry road during winter while vs GT7 it's driving me insane.

Haven't been able to put my finger on what's causing the issue in-between the front or the rear. My assists are all off besides ABS on default too.

For reference 90% of my time on GTS was spent using 350HP road cars on SH, 51K DR, PS4 controller, same sensitivity from GTS, same cars and I can't save a drift to save my life 😂😂

The game has good physics but something's off in the rear, and the front feels disconnected from the car. Driving in 3rd person and trying to react visually to what's going on doesn't work that well, and switching to 1st makes the game 100% easier to drive.

 

[danardif1]

The reality is that there is no manufacturer in the world that makes "Comfort" tires for the Corvette. You either buy the high performance Michelin or you don't. No one would ever go on a track with non performance tire in 460lbs torque RWD car. The Corvette is very stable in corner at high speed. you have to maintain throttle at best. You are not not cruising here. In the video I posted. you can clearly see Randy Post going 97mph and accelerating after he hit the apex, He came out of the corner at 114mph. The car didn't twitch, it didn't want to dance.

This is certainly correct. The Sports Mediums and Softs seem closer to the kind of performance tyre that a modern sportscar uses for road and track.

 

[CPT_KOREA_]

Could it be that the problem is actually poor FFB and information it provides and not necessarily the physics engine itself? Looking at this specifically:

Spoiler: Super GT

it seems like he didn't even see it coming, so probably just didn't feel anything happening in the wheel. I am a way slower driver so I thought I am simply too slow to catch the lift off oversteer, but seeing this, I don't know anymore.

How is it IRL? How hard is it to catch lift off oversteer?

 

[Monkey Man]

I watched the whole of that livestream and felt he wasn't taking into account small bumps in the road. Happened after T3 and also on the main straight.

The post-T3 spot is one I've seen several peeps become unstuck on. Depending on what you're driving, it's prudent to feather the throttle over that particular spot.

 

[sumbrownkid]

The fact the Ford GT LMGTE wants to kill me on banked turns at the high speed ring with max downforce, and on slicks, tells me something is wrong with the tires.

 

[Pfei]

I am on Menu Book 22 and Collector Level 11 so like many of you I have had the opportunity to drive a lot of different cars. I am really enjoying the driving.

The FF and 4WD cars feel great. The race cars feel great. The FRs and MRs seem to be hit or miss. Some are ridiculously oversteery while others are somewhat tame. TCS on 2 does the trick. It's annoying but manageable and I will not trash the game over this. GT has always been oversteery on RWD anyway. It's a bit more extreme now but not game breaking for me.

PD has really stepped it up with this game. I'm really enjoying it.

 

[traind]

It is not a myth. I have gold in every license test up to IA6 using a T300 wheel. I understand that it is possible to control the cars. Despite this, I can attest that the snap oversteer problem is real.

Fundamentally, it should not be easier to control a Group C car flat out through the Porsches curves than it is to drive a road legal Corvette through a large radius turn at 100kmh without spinning.

I like your comment overall and I agree the oversteer is a bit too easy to provoke right now. But technically, a high downforce race car in a fast turn may actually be easier than a high horsepower, high torque street car on street tires.

 

[///M3]

Weird grip levels, weird brake diving mechanics either causes oversteer of unrealistic under steer even a gentle mid corner dab of brake and the cars dive so aggressively.

Definitely get this is not real life and also a fun mix of sim biased physics but it’s counter intuitive sometimes. I haven’t tried my wheel and peddles yet and reverted to buttons because I really don’t enjoy the triggers at all.

I am enjoying the nostalgic feel but the actual driving feels unrewarding. I don’t know if it’s the 25 years of playing it and not playing sport for the last 2 or so but it seems to force and reward a very specific type of driving and maybe that’s because I’m older but I have to recalibrate how I think a car would normally respond to how GT cars respond. Just very very odd.

 

[kilesa4568]

Rather than trying to adapt to the compromised driving physics, I think I'm going to wait till they've addressed it. Which I'm sure they will.

I just don't fancy putting effort into leader boards when there's a good chance we'll see them reset after any changes. Just like they did with GTS.

Day one games, huh?

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I swallowed my pride and put TC all the way up to 3. With this you can sort of actually think about driving the track and not panic at every corner wondering if you’ll spin. The dd pro wheel also feels a bit calmer and doesn’t lock up with horrible understeer before the snap oversteer kicks in. Still not much fun as can’t get close to pushing the car to its limit.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Have the gravel physics improved at all? Looking at videos, they don't seem to be very different to GT Sport, but I could be wrong.

Easier to drive but the Golds all take some corner cutting into account.

The reality is that there is no manufacturer in the world that makes "Comfort" tires for the Corvette. You either buy the high performance Michelin or you don't. No one would ever go on a track with non performance tire in 460lbs torque RWD car. The Corvette is very stable in corner at high speed. you have to maintain throttle at best. You are not not cruising here. In the video I posted. you can clearly see Randy Post going 97mph and accelerating after he hit the apex, He came out of the corner at 114mph. The car didn't twitch, it didn't want to dance.

IIRC the license test (I think it's IB-3) is done on Sport Hards. But then, SH tires are called "hard" for a reason. You trade forgiving behavior for durability, because the compound is not as springy (is this even a word?) as a softer one. SH tires would be bottom of the barrel IRL, not close to the grip level of a Michelin PS4 or a PZero Corsa.

 

[///M3]

I’ve got golds up to the first international those are silvers I will go back to.

In terms of the physics why does the AI still brake check you? 4th gear corner we are all accelerating out tucked up behind the AI vanishing point opens up, all accelerating and then boom AI brakes??? I know it’s race craft/tactical nuance isn’t there yet but it’s frustrating as hell and consistent with all the other GT games to be fair.