Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT

  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
JDMKING13
Bro I turned them on lol and I’m cool with it. We been driving in GTS for years so yeah this is gonna be a learning process for many including myself. However I’m loving it.. and it reminds the reason why I still play AC because the driving is so good even though the graphics are outdated (System version)
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This is exactly how cars handle!
 
Pfei
This is going to sound off the wall, but I have a hypothesis developing. The hypothesis is that the "physics" that we are experimenting early in the game may not be what PD has in mind for us. Allow me to explain with an even weirder example that will demonstrate where this line of thought comes from. A quick background:

My 14 year old daughter has unexpectedly taken over my PS5 playing GT7. Yes I am dying to play some more but I don't have it in my heart to stunt the possibility of a budding sim racer and I have been intermittently coaching her between relaxing Friday beers with my wife.. She has never been interested in car games. She's inexperienced and has been playing through on easy AI (which doesn't seem much different than what I have seen on hard) and with TCS 2 or 3 depending on the car. ABS Default but no other assists besides TCS.

She mangled a few of my gold times on the first round of license tests.

She was doing great until the FR American muscle car menu which is farther than I have advanced. Using the stock '69 Camaro Z28 she managed Willow Springs all by herself. But at Blue Moon Bay infield she hit a brick wall. The car was all over the place and causing her to overdrive because the AI seemed to be much quicker than normal. I saw she was on comfort tires and suggested buying sport tires. That helped but she couldn't get higher than 4th. So I suggested sport suspension. That's when everything changed. After that she hit the track and murdered the AI. The Camaro was still a bit skittish but much more planted than before. It was an instantaneous improvement.

Here comes my train of thought behind my hypothesis: Considering how good the preorder Mazda GT3 feels, could it be that PD has deliberately implemented a tiered dynamic model that is purposely flawed on base street cars for the sole reason being to convince us to start tuning cars? There are reasons to support this insane idea spinning in my head:

1) Traditional collecting and tuning has returned .
2) Gameplay seems weighted to at least improve your tires to be successful, as demonstrated by the progressive increase in AI difficulty after unlocking the tune shop.
3) Sport Mode open to tuning.
4) Luca in the cafe repeatedly tells us to tune cars for performance and stability.
5) Overwhelming bias in the GT Auto talking heads towards tire and suspension upgrades.
6) Microtransactions to "fix" the "flaws" in the dynamic model by buying upgrades that are needed to make the car feel "normal' I admit this is tin foil hat territory but I feel it's important to at least have the idea out there.

It's as if PD is saying "buy tuning parts or your car will be undrivable".

This is a really insane train of thought. The thing is, sometimes you learn more observing a rookie than you learn with your own preconceived beliefs that have been baked into your brain from previous experiences. What to you guys think of this nutcase (or purely rational) post?
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I went through nearly the same steps for that FR series in the same car too (why buy a car when you can tune what'cha got!). I couldn't drive it at all, even with slowing down a bunch. I then tried to 'tune' it down by softening and lowering the rear end; no dice. I ended up buying the C7 'vette (the $50,000 one not the 'road' car). I still had trouble there and had to hit a wall and 'survived' Blue Moon. I cranked up the assists for Willow and took it slow and easy. I had minor problems there and won.

Then I went into Time Trial for Big Willow (to try and make the car 'safer' to drive) and suddenly the car snapped over-steered like MAD. I mean if it was completely undrivable not two minutes after having little to no trouble doing a race dodging traffic :boggled: Anyone else try a Time Trial in a rear drivetrain car yet?

EDIT: I will go and double check that the assists are still on at Willow, tomorrow....


Jerome
 
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Jump_Ace
I went through nearly the same steps for that FR series in the same car too (why buy a car when you can tune what'cha got!). I couldn't drive it at all, even with slowing down a bunch. I then tried to 'tune' it down by softening and lowering the rear end; no dice. I ended up buying the C7 'vette (the $50,000 one not the 'road' car). I still had trouble there and had to hit a wall and 'survived' Blue Moon. I cranked up the assists for Willow and took it slow and easy. I had minor problems there and won.

Then I went into Time Trial for Big Willow (to try and make the car 'safer' to drive) and suddenly the car snapped over-steered like MAD. I mean if it was completely undrivable not two minutes after having little to no trouble doing a race dodging traffic :boggled: Anyone else try a Time Trial in a rear drivetrain car yet?

EDIT: I will go and double check that the assists are still on at Willow, tomorrow....


Jerome
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I'm glad it's not just me!
I managed gold in A and B, but I'm struggling with that 69 Vette and Blue Moon. Tried suspension, tyres, TCS on 5. I'm fishtailing after the sweeping corners, I'm being as smooth as I can 😂
 
A couple of things. Anyone using a controller is basically playing different game. There’s a massive counter steer assist working for you even if it’s turned off.
These physics are in no way realistic. An mx5 or 370z or m3 csl are quite capable of turning a corner at 60 mph with throttle applied.
The game needs to give the player feedback of where the limit is so we can achieve the best times and be consistent. Without it you have to literally guess. Can I apply a little throttle here? Who knows, when I can power out the corner etc. on GTS I could do 5 laps and they’d all be within two or three tenths. There is zero chance that’s happening here because it all feels so random. Yes, on a license trial and error you’ll work it out, the same for single player where it doesn’t matter but I can’t imagine the mess of online in rwd cars. Also if the way the AI can pit manoeuvre you with the slightest touch is replicated online it’ll be a complete farce all round.
GTS was fun and captured the joy of racing. This is just a chore and a pot luck survival game.
 
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Only started a little bit yesterday, but I thought something was wrong in my settings as soon as I did the first license tests with the GR86 and Nissan Z33 at Tsukuba. It seemed like the car would turn into the corner alright, but as soon as you applied the throttle the back would step out. In a 200hp car?? Come on!

There's definitely something wrong here, and it feels like the rear tyres do simply not have enough grip.

I haven't driven enough yet to maybe confirm my suspicion, but I think I also noticed that the back end of FF cars (and maybe also 4WD) feels a lot more lively (or should we say loose?) than it used to. So, I suspect, that PD in an effort to make FF and 4WD more fun, simply reduced the rear tyre grip across the board.

I'm really hesitant now, because the FR physics will ruin my whole experience, if I continue like this.
 
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NikNakTobasco
A couple of things. Anyone using a controller is basically playing different game. There’s a massive counter steer assist working for you even if it’s turned off.
These physics are in no way realistic. An mx5 or 370z or m3 csl are quite capable of turning a corner at 60 mph with throttle applied.
The game needs to give the player feedback of where the limit is so we can achieve the best times and be consistent. Without it you have to literally guess. Can I apply a little throttle here? Who knows, when I can power out the corner etc. on GTS I could do 5 laps and they’d all be within two or three tenths. There is zero chance that’s happening here because it all feels so random. Yes, on a license trial and error you’ll work it out, the same for single player where it doesn’t matter but I can’t imagine the mess of online in rwd cars. Also if the way the AI can pit manoeuvre you with the slightest touch is replicated online it’ll be a complete farce all round.
GTS was fun and captured the joy of racing. This is just a chore and a pot luck survival game.
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Not for nothing I took the Z around Suzuka it was way better to drive vs when I was driving it during the license test.. I’m not spinning out and I have full control of it. It’s a pleasure to drive I’m not saying what your saying is false but after having more time with the game the cars are starting to feel easier to drive and I’m not having those issues with spinning the car out as you are.

I wonder if we can pick a certain car and track and see what times people are running.
 
I have to agree with the guys saying the physics are reminiscent of Assetto Corsa, which is great and I’m having a lot of fun, but (in my uneducated opinion) there’s something not quite right with the level of tyre grip. Like Scaff said, it does feel like the tyres are overinflated. Fix that minor issue and driving any car in GT7 will inspire confidence while still staying extremely fun.
 
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I think that there is the same issue with the physics that also had GT Sport at the release. There doesn't move enough weight to the rear when the car accelerates what makes it unstable. You also see the missing weight transfer because there is not much movement at the suspension.

I had an RX-8 in real life and it was so stable and easy to drive because there was no torque. In GT7 the RX-8 is horrible to drive and the perfect car to do a suicide.

I hope and think that they will fix this issue soon.
 
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RaceFace85
I think that there is the same issue with the physics that also had GT Sport at the release. There doesn't move enough weight to the rear when the car accelerates what makes it unstable. You also see the missing weight transfer because there is not much movement at the suspension.

I had an RX-8 in real life and it was so stable and easy to drive because there was no torque. In GT7 the RX-8 is horrible to drive and the perfect car to do a suicide.

I hope and think that they will fix this issue soon.
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You could be right about the weight transfer than the tires physics issue.
 
I dunno, it takes practice. I feel like you gotta be a lot more gentle on the throttle than GTS and I think this is more realistic tbh. I think people underestimate how fast they're taking corners because GT has never excelled at giving a good sense of speed in the slower road cars.

I could be wrong seeing as I've never raced a car. Would be interesting to compare a real lap with GT7 and compare cornering speed.

That said, the Gr cars have a lot more downforce and are a lot more predictable.
 
s0cks
I dunno, it takes practice. I feel like you gotta be a lot more gentle on the throttle than GTS and I think this is more realistic tbh. I think people underestimate how fast they're taking corners because GT has never excelled at giving a good sense of speed in the slower road cars.

I could be wrong seeing as I've never raced a car. Would be interesting to compare a real lap with GT7 and compare cornering speed.

That said, the Gr cars have a lot more downforce and are a lot more predictable.
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Look back in this thread, exactly that was done for the IA1 licence test, the real car is 5mph quicker in that sweeper that in GT 7.
 
Scaff
Look back in this thread, exactly that was done for the IA1 licence test, the real car is 5mph quicker in that sweeper that in GT 7.
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Fair enough. It does feel very slippy, definitely agree. I just wasn't sure if that was more realistic.
 
Oh no... not this again.

Yes, the physics are challenging but so is driving an actual car on an actual racing track. There are a couple of solutions to the people who are complaining (edit: so seeing some of the replies here asking for the physics to be patched, I bolded the list below. edit 2: I also underlined it and maybe italics will help as well):

  • git gud
  • use assists
  • git gud
  • learn how to get better

The physics are super fun and many people think the same. This is ****ing amazing, considering that the physics have always been GT's main issue.

Cap'n Jack
I have to agree with the guys saying the physics are reminiscent of Assetto Corsa, which is great and I’m having a lot of fun, but (in my uneducated opinion) there’s something not quite right with the level of tyre grip. Like Scaff said, it does feel like the tyres are overinflated. Fix that minor issue and driving any car in GT7 will inspire confidence while still saying extremely fun.
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To me it feels like the cars are on winter tires lol

I have a low powered rwd car that is not easy to drift in hotter conditions but on winter tires, it does long powerslides in 3rd gear easily. It's really fun.
SofianeVAG
Saw this earlier... Seems weird for an LMP1

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Real LMP1 cars are driven by some of the best drivers on the planet. They might look planted and stable on TV but you need to keep in mind that the drivers are making it look much easier than it actually is.
Scaff
Look back in this thread, exactly that was done for the IA1 licence test, the real car is 5mph quicker in that sweeper that in GT 7.
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The thing is that the Corvette in the video had Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 ZP tires. The Corvette in the license test had SH tires. Cup 2's are not SH.
 
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4everdelayed
The thing is that the Corvette in the video had Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 ZP tires. The Corvette in the license test had SH tires. Cup 2's are not SH.
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Which just further supports my view that the grip levels are the main issue, with the limited FFB not helping that.

Edited to add.

I've just run the C7 with street tyres at Big Willow in AC. In the same corner, with OEM pressures you get around 92mph constant through the corner, drop the pressure by 5psi per corner and it's 95-97mph through the same corner.

However, the on-limit behavior is very different, with understeer being the dominant trait, well as long as you have TC switched on (any setting will do). Switch off TC in AC (while running street tyres at OEM pressure) and you get a car that behaves very similarly to the one we have in GT 7.
 
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4everdelayed
Oh no... not this again.

Yes, the physics are challenging but so is driving an actual car on an actual racing track.
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Except driving cars in real life is not hard.

Real LMP1 cars are driven by some of the best drivers on the planet. They might look planted and stable on TV but you need to keep in mind that the drivers are making it look much easier than it actually is.
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They look planted and stable probably because they are, those two things are kind of essential in a race car.
 
driftnick13
Except driving cars in real life is not hard.
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Yes and no.

Driving a car at 7 to 8 tenths is easy enough, driving one on the limit and doing so consistently isn't.

Take the C7 in GT7 and make sure to switch on TC, ABS, and ASM (as you would on the road), keep speeds under 90mph (well over the speed limit in most countries but not track excessive), shift 2-3k under the read line and use gentle throttle and brake application and it's a doddle to drive.

In other words, if you drive one as you do on the road, it's just fine.

Don't get me wrong, something (which is suspect is to do with grip limits) is off in GT7, but the correct context is important here, and on the limit behavior of a C7 with ASM switched off and on street biased tyres is not going to be easy. GT is long overdue an 'authentic' driving aids option, that sets them, by default, to what the real cars have. Both PC and AC have it, and Enthusia did it back on the PS2.

Too often when people are saying X car would kill you in real life if it behaved as it does in Y game, they are not driving the two in a similar manner at all. We need apples-to-apples comparisons.
 
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It seems they have artificially inflated the difficulty of cornering. I have driven on Mid Ohio track course more than once in road cars. And no, it isn't this hard. The closest you'll find to realistic behavior in a sim is rfactor 2. In case you just want to know what it really feels like.

I suspect they will tweak the difficulty a bit for GT7. For now it seems they've included black ice on the corners.
 
Glad this thread exists.

Part of the problem I have with it all is the weirdly weighted brake trigger on the PS5 controller.

You have to put more effort into that which takes it off everything else.
 
Something is off with the suspension simulation in GT7. Turn the wheel slightly and the car will begin to lean hard on the springs, even when the car is going relatively slow. Weight transfer is sudden as the suspension lacks adequate stiffness. It makes for some very non-linear suspension travel, and cone slalom would be near impossible with these physics.

After two days with the game I still haven’t gotten a feel for it, and this is coming from someone who never really had any problems with titles like GT Sport, Forza, Assetto Corsa and DiRT Rally just to name a few.

It doesn’t feel natural in GT7, and just thinking about it makes me feel uncomfortable about going for a drive in my own car (not kidding). GT Sport always gave me confidence in real life driving.
 
tedaxe
Anyone else noticed there is a large counter steer assist even if its turned off?
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On game pad, I'm about ready to give up going for all gold on license test A-9 (white NSX). Somehow on my 2nd attempt I was 21 milliseconds from gold. No joke at least 50 attempts later no matter which ghost I use or what my assist settings are or controller steer sensitivity is I still can't get closer than ~250 milliseconds away from gold.

It feels like the car just WON'T TURN. The max amount of steering wheel rotation I'm seeing on screen is 90 degrees, as in the driver's hand at 3/6 o'clock stops at 12 o'clock when turning fully either way at any speed.

I'm expecting the wheel to rotate AT LEAST 180 degrees when I have the analog stick all the way to one side for a long time at a reasonable speed.

What's going on? No amount of slowing down is helping.
 
Nielsen
Something is off with the suspension simulation in GT7. Turn the wheel slightly and the car will begin to lean hard on the springs, even when the car is going relatively slow. Weight transfer is sudden as the suspension lacks adequate stiffness. It makes for some very non-linear suspension travel, and cone slalom would be near impossible with these physics.

After two days with the game I still haven’t gotten a feel for it, and this is coming from someone who never really had any problems with titles like GT Sport, Forza, Assetto Corsa and DiRT Rally just to name a few.

It doesn’t feel natural in GT7, and just thinking about it makes me feel uncomfortable about going for a drive in my own car (not kidding). GT Sport always gave me confidence in real life driving.
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I suspect that the driving physics have less to do with actual weight transfer and momentum in the car, than it does with steering wheel position and input.

So you're essentially trying to decipher that perfect wheel position/speed of car for each corner. You're fighting the wheel, not the car. Which is gamey and unrealistic, and we'll... Weird feeling.

As folks begin to decipher that formula, the challenge will wear off and thus the fun factor.
 
Scaff
Yes and no.

Driving a car at 7 to 8 tenths is easy enough, driving one on the limit and doing so consistently isn't.

Take the C7 in GT7 and make sure to switch on TC, ABS, and ASM (as you would on the road), keep speeds under 90mph (well over the speed limit in most countries but not track excessive), shift 2-3k under the read line and use gentle throttle and brake application and it's a doddle to drive.

In other words, if you drive one as you do on the road, it's just fine.

Don't get me wrong, something (which is suspect is to do with grip limits) is off in GT7, but the correct context is important here, and on the limit behavior of a C7 with ASM switched off and on street biased tyres is not going to be easy. GT is long overdue an 'authentic' driving aids option, that sets them, by default, to what the real cars have. Both PC and AC have it, and Enthusia did it back on the PS2.

Too often when people are saying X car would kill you in real life if it behaved as it does in Y game, they are not driving the two in a similar manner at all. We need apples-to-apples comparisons.
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The limit in these road cars is nowhere near as silly as it is in gt7. 350z and mx5 just spinning out so easily at very low speeds is completely broken.
 

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