Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[RacingFan1]

It's an arcade racer set to insane difficulty level. There's very little weight transfer and interia going on. Very little of any slip angle on the tires.

The reason people overlook it is for two reasons:

1) It has shiny cars.
2) They've been invested in it's release.


Just like the real race car driver who says iRacing and GT7 are both realistic. That's impossible. They couldn't be any different as far as physics go

Don't trust anything anyone says about realism. It doesn't matter who they are and what job they have. Trust yourself. And you did exactly that.

What? You may have to re-check the definition of "arcade". A racing game having different physics than iracing doesn't make it an arcade racing game.

 

[MagpieRacer]

What? You may have to re-check the definition of "arcade". A racing game having different physics than iracing doesn't make it an arcade racing game.

Technically by the definition of arcade game you could just load iRacing in to a gaming cabinet with a wheel and put it in an arcade complex. Boom, arcade game.

 

[///M3]

What? You may have to re-check the definition of "arcade". A racing game having different physics than iracing doesn't make it an arcade racing game.

It literally has an arcade mode in it….called arcade mode…

 

[Dunderbolt]

To give example of what I was talking about, back in early to mid 2020, iRacing was known for having a nigh unforgivable oversteer for just barely STEPPING beyond the abilities of your car. This is the same time when a bunch of real life race car drivers went to iRacing for events due to covid and this was what infuriated them Youtube video that actually explains the issue

This is what I exactly experience in GT7. You're on rails until you're not. The Nurb is possibly where I see this happen the most. I will suddenly lose traction after cresting a hill, and instead of realistically having lighter controls, the game decides to just snap oversteer me because "I have no more grip"

You can still push a car, but like what is stated in the video, it completely punishes you and destroys you if you even stick your toe outside what the game defines as "available grip"


I'll see if I can make a vid later illustrating what I mean in GT7

 

[VitorLeite]

I registered into the forum just to comment on this section (Hi everyone!).

I really don't think that the physics are unreal, there's just a learning curve. I'm still struggling, but improving over time. I never raced a full sim before with a steering wheel (used to play Racer with mouse controls...), but it's clear that we have GT Sport physics updated more towards full sim.

Pretty much any car will oversteer if you manage to point it towards an apex but carrying too much speed.

So I went on the internet and I found this:


I also found this:


This dude pulled out a lap several seconds faster than gold, and so far I can't even come close.

I think in the end it's a matter of expectation vs reality. It's way more difficult than GTS, so if you wanted to experience a similar level of dificulty, there's no argument to make you enjoy the game.

[edited because the yt videos were messing the page layout]

 

[///M3]

Can’t brake while turning they say…

(Just an excuse to post the best video of the ring being driven with loafers and no helmet)

 

[fortbo]

To give example of what I was talking about, back in early to mid 2020, iRacing was known for having a nigh unforgivable oversteer for just barely STEPPING beyond the abilities of your car. This is the same time when a bunch of real life race car drivers went to iRacing for events due to covid and this was what infuriated them Youtube video that actually explains the issue

This is what I exactly experience in GT7. You're on rails until you're not. The Nurb is possibly where I see this happen the most. I will suddenly lose traction after cresting a hill, and instead of realistically having lighter controls, the game decides to just snap oversteer me because "I have no more grip"

You can still push a car, but like what is stated in the video, it completely punishes you and destroys you if you even stick your toe outside what the game defines as "available grip"


I'll see if I can make a vid later illustrating what I mean in GT7

IRacing was actually much worse than this. It was actually impossible to recover any sort of oversteer in it.

 

[JDMKING13]

To give example of what I was talking about, back in early to mid 2020, iRacing was known for having a nigh unforgivable oversteer for just barely STEPPING beyond the abilities of your car. This is the same time when a bunch of real life race car drivers went to iRacing for events due to covid and this was what infuriated them Youtube video that actually explains the issue

This is what I exactly experience in GT7. You're on rails until you're not. The Nurb is possibly where I see this happen the most. I will suddenly lose traction after cresting a hill, and instead of realistically having lighter controls, the game decides to just snap oversteer me because "I have no more grip"

You can still push a car, but like what is stated in the video, it completely punishes you and destroys you if you even stick your toe outside what the game defines as "available grip"


I'll see if I can make a vid later illustrating what I mean in GT7

This i feel and the main reason i just run traction control until I know the car like the back of my hand… I was explaining earlier it’s not just your driving messing you up, but the elevation changes where the chassis gets unbalanced, or just different road point where the tires are uneven can throw you outta control. I get what your saying with that… some of my buddies are even running the ASM function to insure they don’t spin out. I have lost races in the last turn spinning out from pushing the car hard… TCS it is lol 😂

 

[Maciaty]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to share my thoughts about the current physics model.
First of all, in real life, I had a Subaru Forester, on sport suspension, MX-5 NBFL on sort suspension, and currently Im driving a MK3 Focus RS.
In terms of games - GTS of course, Automobilista 2, Raceroom Racing Experience, some iRacing and Dirt Rallies.
all on T500RS and T300RS

Ive been playing mainly GTS, cause the whole online community and ease of finding a good online race each time I try, but the physics were not to my liking. It was way to easy with some cars, and Ive used GTS as a party game for my friends, cause with the other games it was too easy to spin the car.
GT7 feels closer to my experience with other, sim games. Sure, it needs to be balanced and fine tuned, but in my opinion its going the right way.
In GTS I did not find it realistic to use a lot of those cars without TC. Way too easy. I wouldnt even think to turn off TC in more realistic sims, while in GTS it was almost a shame to use it.


I have two issues tho, and both of them might affect our early experience.
1. Good racing sims, that require from me to keep an eye on the weight transfers etc usually have force feedback that matches the realism level. FF in GTS was not bad, but It didnt matter, as the entire game was way more arcadish. Now I feel it should matter, but the FF is not on the same level as the physics they wanted to implement.
2. Pedals linearity. Something definitely changed here, and I saw you guys already pinpointed the "issue" - theyre linear now, and wasnt in GTS, so my muscle memory is definitely causing me to spin more than I should.

So I was asking myself - would a real life MX-5 act in the way it acts in GT7? Maybe it would if I drove it like in GT7 right now, which is constantly overdoing the brake pedal, and easily going to 90% accelerator, being halfway in a turn, and generally upsetting the balance of the car.
Maybe the steering inputs behave differently too?

Also, Ive crashed that mx-5 10 years ago. Ive experimented with removing the ABS fuse, wanted to improve my track time. Forgot about it, and next time I had to really step on the brakes, the car immediately spun, and spun so aggresively, that no countersteer would help me. I was younger and way dumber. But anyway, GT7 behaviour is close to that event, and Im using the "default ABS" from now on.

So to summarise, my experience with other racing games is that it is easy to spin the car, maybe less so than in GT7 but remember - other games are aiming at race cars exclusively, while GT7 tries to simulate regular cars on regular suspension and tires.

Im happy with the change, I feel it needs some fine tuning (especially when looking at those flying porsches screens), but I understand that it might come as a shock for people playing exclusively gran turismo.
Sorry if this was a bit chaotic.

ps. have you noticed that on "expert" settings the countersteer assist is still on? What if it was always on, on some mild setting in GTS, without the possibility to change it? When turning it on in GT7 the experience feels more like GTS

Cheers!

 

[Scaff]

I've just spent an extended lunch-break playing around (it's OK I started work early today) as I wanted to explore the title more outside of the career progression, and also step outside my normal driving style (as I had a suspicion that I may not have been seeing the full picture as a result).

So what did I find, interesting stuff (if your me) is what I found.

First a bit about my driving style, it's neat, as neat as I can make it, measured input, as smooth as I can get them. And that works really, really well for GT 7, and GT 7 stands up as closer to reality in that regard than GTS. It even stands up as you play around on that edge of slip, allowing small corrects using little more than a twist of the wrist to be used.

All lovely and nice, but what I hadn't done was hoon the living crap out of anything, mainly as it's not my thing at all. So I dropped into the (virtual) seat of a 370Z and took it out for a sideways spin, now I'm no drifter, but I can hold a slide for a second or two at a reasonable angle.

Well actually it turns out that no I can't.

So, humble pie aside for not testing all circumstances in the past, what's causing this. First I disagree with those who are laying the blame at load transfer, if that was the case we would be seeing problems below the limit and when balanced on the limit (and those two areas are pretty accurate and better than GTS), which leaves the tyre curve and model over the limit as the issue. Well not the only issue, as what I also found is that the FFB has a massive amount of drag when trying to countersteer during larger angles, which can't be removed even if you set the FFB to 1/1.

I was even contemplating a video on it, but then I remembered, I've seen this somewhere before, and I found it (and those members saying GT7 and iRacing are totally different may wish to reconsider once they watch it - GT 7 isn;t quite as bad, as it's possible to play around more on the limit, but once your over that, well not much different at all).



The long and the short of it is.

Up to and at the limit = GT 7 Good Doggo
Over the limit by any more = GT 7 Bad Dog

 

[Seikenfreak]

If you think it’s MR cars in general can I encourage you to try the Deep Forest Circuit Experience challenge in the Grouo 3 R8? I think you’ll change your mind pretty quickly.

I see what you mean here. Just tried it and it is very sensitive. I was able to get Gold on it after a handful of attempts but it didn't feel great. Same as usual, I had to focus on being super smooth and gentle inputs. My 430 and 458 handling is in another league compared to this thing.

Can I start a rumor that Ferrari paid Polyphony to make the cars handle extra good?

 

[JDMKING13]

I see what you mean here. Just tried it and it is very sensitive. I was able to get Gold on it after a handful of attempts but it didn't feel great. Same as usual, I had to focus on being super smooth and gentle inputs. My 430 and 458 handling is in another league compared to this thing.

Can I start a rumor that Ferrari paid Polyphony to make the cars handle extra good?

Did you use TCS? I was using TCS for some especially if the car came equipped with it.

 

[///M3]

I've just spent an extended lunch-break playing around (it's OK I started work early today) as I wanted to explore the title more outside of the career progression, and also step outside my normal driving style (as I had a suspicion that I may not have been seeing the full picture as a result).

So what did I find, interesting stuff (if your me) is what I found.

First a bit about my driving style, it's neat, as neat as I can make it, measured input, as smooth as I can get them. And that works really, really well for GT 7, and GT 7 stands up as closer to reality in that regard than GTS. It even stands up as you play around on that edge of slip, allowing small corrects using little more than a twist of the wrist to be used.

All lovely and nice, but what I hadn't done was hoon the living crap out of anything, mainly as it's not my thing at all. So I dropped into the (virtual) seat of a 370Z and took it out for a sideways spin, now I'm no drifter, but I can hold a slide for a second or two at a reasonable angle.

Well actually it turns out that no I can't.

So, humble pie aside for not testing all circumstances in the past, what's causing this. First I disagree with those who are laying the blame at load transfer, if that was the case we would be seeing problems below the limit and when balanced on the limit (and those two areas are pretty accurate and better than GTS), which leaves the tyre curve and model over the limit as the issue. Well not the only issue, as what I also found is that the FFB has a massive amount of drag when trying to countersteer during larger angles, which can't be removed even if you set the FFB to 1/1.

I was even contemplating a video on it, but then I remembered, I've seen this somewhere before, and I found it (and those members saying GT7 and iRacing are totally different may wish to reconsider once they watch it - GT 7 isn;t quite as bad, as it's possible to play around more on the limit, but once your over that, well not much different at all).



The long and the short of it is.

Up to and at the limit = GT 7 Good Doggo
Over the limit by any more = GT 7 Bad Dog

Thank you for this!

Any thoughts on why understeer grip coming back either doesn't happen or happens not in the way it should? Understeer, lift off, tyres rotate and grip should come back with a fair bit of snap (at lower speeds not higher ones obviously)?

 

[Scaff]

Thank you for this!

Any thoughts on why understeer grip coming back either doesn't happen or happens not in the way it should? Understeer, lift off, tyres rotate and grip should come back with a fair bit of snap (at lower speeds not higher ones obviously)?

Again it's most likely the tyre curve at play.

It's significantly better than GTS, which just wouldn't come back at all, but it's not up with the best around in this regard (which is still in my view PC2 and AMS2).

Keep in mind that in reality if you overcook the front too much its not coming back either.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I've just spent an extended lunch-break playing around (it's OK I started work early today) as I wanted to explore the title more outside of the career progression, and also step outside my normal driving style (as I had a suspicion that I may not have been seeing the full picture as a result).

So what did I find, interesting stuff (if your me) is what I found.

First a bit about my driving style, it's neat, as neat as I can make it, measured input, as smooth as I can get them. And that works really, really well for GT 7, and GT 7 stands up as closer to reality in that regard than GTS. It even stands up as you play around on that edge of slip, allowing small corrects using little more than a twist of the wrist to be used.

All lovely and nice, but what I hadn't done was hoon the living crap out of anything, mainly as it's not my thing at all. So I dropped into the (virtual) seat of a 370Z and took it out for a sideways spin, now I'm no drifter, but I can hold a slide for a second or two at a reasonable angle.

Well actually it turns out that no I can't.

So, humble pie aside for not testing all circumstances in the past, what's causing this. First I disagree with those who are laying the blame at load transfer, if that was the case we would be seeing problems below the limit and when balanced on the limit (and those two areas are pretty accurate and better than GTS), which leaves the tyre curve and model over the limit as the issue. Well not the only issue, as what I also found is that the FFB has a massive amount of drag when trying to countersteer during larger angles, which can't be removed even if you set the FFB to 1/1.

I was even contemplating a video on it, but then I remembered, I've seen this somewhere before, and I found it (and those members saying GT7 and iRacing are totally different may wish to reconsider once they watch it - GT 7 isn;t quite as bad, as it's possible to play around more on the limit, but once your over that, well not much different at all).



The long and the short of it is.

Up to and at the limit = GT 7 Good Doggo
Over the limit by any more = GT 7 Bad Dog

I mean this is what we’ve been saying. The transition from grip to non grip is instant with no feedback that’s it’s coming.

 

[Seikenfreak]

Did you use TCS? I was using TCS for some especially if the car came equipped with it.

Yeap. Was trying TCS1 and 2. Did not try without it. If I can barely handle a car with TCS, I almost definitely can't handle it with it off lol

Good stuff. Video reminds me of why I never really enjoyed iRacing. Feels like playing a business spreadsheet. It's all work and no play. Also ludicrously expensive. Didn't play that much AC either as by the time I was more aware of that, I was already enjoying PC2. Only recently have I messed around in ACC and that's pretty fun.

 

[NJ72]

Having played a lot more I must say that whilst there is a lot to like about the physics, the tendency to oversteer at any given corner, speed or throttle application is infuriating. I own an RX8 in real life and the things have ZERO torque, yet if you jump in the RX8 in stock form it'll happily oversteer at 100mph in 5th gear... No way on earth that would actually happen, not unless you were running on ice.

I also tuned it to ~400bhp and it will oversteer at 150mph with racing soft tyres on it... Absolutely pants

 

[Scaff]

I mean this is what we’ve been saying. The transition from grip to non grip is instant with no feedback that’s it’s coming.

I'd have to disagree than you get no feedback, while GT 7 FFB still needs a lot of work, I get enough to know that its going to let go. It's enough to be able to balance a car on the limit in a reasonably accurate way, but once it gets past that the tyre model and FFB drag make it almost a certainty that your going to yeet it into the armco.

 

[///M3]

I'd have to disagree than you get no feedback, while GT 7 FFB still needs a lot of work, I get enough to know that its going to let go. It's enough to be able to balance a car on the limit in a reasonably accurate way, but once it gets past that the tyre model and FFB drag make it almost a certainty that your going to yeet it into the armco.

For me the lack of audio feedback doesn’t help, you’d expect tyre screech to be more pronounced the more you are working them etc

 

[JDMKING13]

For me the lack of audio feedback doesn’t help, you’d expect tyre screech to be more pronounced the more you are working them etc

What headphones you using ? The pulse 3D work really well in my opinion sound placement is really good… also like you said let’s you know when the tires are at the limit from the screech… what messes me up sometime is the AI will go in a corner hot behind me and when their tires screech I think it’s my rear tires. It messes me up sometimes bad.

 

[Dunderbolt]

I've just spent an extended lunch-break playing around (it's OK I started work early today) as I wanted to explore the title more outside of the career progression, and also step outside my normal driving style (as I had a suspicion that I may not have been seeing the full picture as a result).

So what did I find, interesting stuff (if your me) is what I found.

First a bit about my driving style, it's neat, as neat as I can make it, measured input, as smooth as I can get them. And that works really, really well for GT 7, and GT 7 stands up as closer to reality in that regard than GTS. It even stands up as you play around on that edge of slip, allowing small corrects using little more than a twist of the wrist to be used.

All lovely and nice, but what I hadn't done was hoon the living crap out of anything, mainly as it's not my thing at all. So I dropped into the (virtual) seat of a 370Z and took it out for a sideways spin, now I'm no drifter, but I can hold a slide for a second or two at a reasonable angle.

Well actually it turns out that no I can't.

So, humble pie aside for not testing all circumstances in the past, what's causing this. First I disagree with those who are laying the blame at load transfer, if that was the case we would be seeing problems below the limit and when balanced on the limit (and those two areas are pretty accurate and better than GTS), which leaves the tyre curve and model over the limit as the issue. Well not the only issue, as what I also found is that the FFB has a massive amount of drag when trying to countersteer during larger angles, which can't be removed even if you set the FFB to 1/1.

I was even contemplating a video on it, but then I remembered, I've seen this somewhere before, and I found it (and those members saying GT7 and iRacing are totally different may wish to reconsider once they watch it - GT 7 isn;t quite as bad, as it's possible to play around more on the limit, but once your over that, well not much different at all).



The long and the short of it is.

Up to and at the limit = GT 7 Good Doggo
Over the limit by any more = GT 7 Bad Dog

Exactly. If you're within the limits of the car, they handle extremely well. Bug once you go beyond, you eat dirt

 

[platocplx]

I'd have to disagree than you get no feedback, while GT 7 FFB still needs a lot of work, I get enough to know that its going to let go. It's enough to be able to balance a car on the limit in a reasonably accurate way, but once it gets past that the tyre model and FFB drag make it almost a certainty that your going to yeet it into the armco.

Yeah its subtle, but you can feel right when its about to slip and then boom slip. I suggest some people try to hard brake and then turn and you can feel exactly when the car is gonna go out of control.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

For me the lack of audio feedback doesn’t help, you’d expect tyre screech to be more pronounced the more you are working them etc

They’ve dialed the tyre noises way back in 7. It was a bit much in Sport but I kind of got used to the audio cues which aren’t as pronounced now.

 

[sumbrownkid]

After playing the game a bit more, I’m unlearning the bad habits in GT Sport and making myself more versed in GT7. The absolute key thing in GT7 is smooth = fast. Don’t force the car into sudden moves, and it’s ok to take it easy for a lap to get to grips, no pun intended, with the vehicle you’re driving and the conditions you are facing.

I still feel some cars do need a look at by PD, but for overall, I think the physics are in the right direction.

 

[JDMKING13]

Yeah its subtle, but you can feel right when its about to slip and then boom slip. I suggest some people try to hard brake and then turn and you can feel exactly when the car is gonna go out of control.

Once you get use to the sensation it’s easy to catch and feel right before it’s night night.. I was trippin at first because spinning out had me thinking I was just a poor driver in which I was pushing the car to the limits not understanding the physics. Once I felt the edge depending on the car, is where If I want to cross it! BRZ yeah maybe sure no TCS… ZR-1 Vette?? Nah I’m good I’ll take traction control for $300

Also TCS is actually fun to drive with vs in GTS it would just make you understeer everytime.. it barley kicks and and only kicks in when it’s saving time! If you are not smooth enough you can still spin out on TCS also because the car still can get sideways. You can judge a car chassis so much better in GT7.. cars actually feel like you can get entry oversteer and need absolute balance through the track to be efficient.

 

[MatskiMonk]

They’ve dialed the tyre noises way back in 7.

You can turn the volume up for the tyre effects IIRC.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

GR3 I’m using TCS 1. It’s possible to drive the supra without it kicking in at all (anyone thats used the Supra in sport will know TCS was annoying as hell) If you’re smooth and it really only activates to save you which is how it should be. I think the complete overhaul of the TC has really flown under the radar as people are so precious about not using aids. Sure, maybe with it off you’ll get half a second quicker around the lap but unless something drastic changes I’ll be sticking with it as the cost/benefit has shifted substantially from Sport.

 

[JDMKING13]

GR3 I’m using TCS 1. It’s possible to drive the supra without it kicking in at all (anyone thats used the Supra in sport will know TCS was annoying as hell) If you’re smooth and it really only activates to save you which is how it should be. I think the complete overhaul of the TC has really flown under the radar as people are so precious about not using aids. Sure, maybe with it off you’ll get half a second quicker around the lap but unless something drastic changes I’ll be sticking with it as the cost/benefit has shifted substantially from Sport.

You said this perfect.. I said to myself TCS is so much better now vs in GTS where it hampered us. They had to know people were going to need it because as you said I don’t feel comfortable running with it off for a hour race in my league because any giving moment you can be in the barriers! It was happening to me in those Pepper races I would be in third and last lap or second to last lap I would spin out! In ACC I always run TCS!

 

[Scaff]

Sure, maybe with it off you’ll get half a second quicker around the lap but unless something drastic changes I’ll be sticking with it as the cost/benefit has shifted substantially from Sport.

It's certainly improved since GTS, but it still has a way to go.

That it's possible to be quicker without it with GT3 car demonstrates that, as they should be quicker with TCS running, given they are built around using the systems.

 

[platocplx]

Once you get use to the sensation it’s easy to catch and feel right before it’s night night.. I was trippin at first because spinning out had me thinking I was just a poor driver in which I was pushing the car to the limits not understanding the physics. Once I felt the edge depending on the car, is where If I want to cross it! BRZ yeah maybe sure no TCS… ZR-1 Vette?? Nah I’m good I’ll take traction control for $300

Also TCS is actually fun to drive with vs in GTS it would just make you understeer everytime.. it barley kicks and and only kicks in when it’s saving time! If you are not smooth enough you can still spin out on TCS also because the car still can get sideways. You can judge a car chassis so much better in GT7.. cars actually feel like you can get entry oversteer and need absolute balance through the track to be efficient.

this is very true. Because if they can get great gold times in the license tests with some TC, def have to drive smoother, I def have to try and get that feel and know when im loosing it its def quiet.