Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,193 comments
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- 3,987
- Chicago
- fortbo
- fortbo
This thread is getting pretty odd to say the least. That’s beside the point though, I think the main thing is that at the limit and up to it the physics are very realistic, atleast from what I’ve experienced, over the limit is where the flaws start to come out a bit.
- 78
I didn't have to completely change my driving in AC to be able to slide a car around, most of the cars are easy to control, I'm not constantly fighting the wheel, it feels natural, the same can not be said about GT7.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Can someone explain what happens here? I have this happen more often, on the Spa straight, Deep Forest, Tsukaba, Nordschleife straight. This time I saved a clip and I heard a sound just before it happened. But what is it. TCS blips as the car goes into a spin.
It also happens on fresh tires, half throttle input. I get that going 300 kph on Sarthe in heavy rain makes the car unstable, yet this is different. It's perfectly fine on other laps and I'm nowhere near the speed instability barrier yet.
Another attempt at that race ruined by
It also happens on fresh tires, half throttle input. I get that going 300 kph on Sarthe in heavy rain makes the car unstable, yet this is different. It's perfectly fine on other laps and I'm nowhere near the speed instability barrier yet.
Another attempt at that race ruined by
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- 2,130
- Porto
- JPSILVA1893
Can someone explain what happens here? I have this happen more often, on the Spa straight, Deep Forest, Tsukaba, Nordschleife straight. This time I saved a clip and I heard a sound just before it happened. But what is it. TCS blips as the car goes into a spin.
It also happens on fresh tires, half throttle input. I get that going 300 kph on Sarthe in heavy rain makes the car unstable, yet this is different. It's perfectly fine on other laps and I'm nowhere near the speed instability barrier yet.
Another attempt at that race ruined by
You hit a puddle and aquaplaned.
- 3,987
- Chicago
- fortbo
- fortbo
Can someone explain what happens here? I have this happen more often, on the Spa straight, Deep Forest, Tsukaba, Nordschleife straight. This time I saved a clip and I heard a sound just before it happened. But what is it. TCS blips as the car goes into a spin.
It also happens on fresh tires, half throttle input. I get that going 300 kph on Sarthe in heavy rain makes the car unstable, yet this is different. It's perfectly fine on other laps and I'm nowhere near the speed instability barrier yet.
Another attempt at that race ruined by
Pretty normal behavior, hydroplaned in the wet. Actually really cool to see how they’ve implemented that in the rain physics.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
- 2,323
- United States
You need to stay away from the places in the track that water tends to accumulate.
- 130
- United States
Can someone explain what happens here? I have this happen more often, on the Spa straight, Deep Forest, Tsukaba, Nordschleife straight. This time I saved a clip and I heard a sound just before it happened. But what is it. TCS blips as the car goes into a spin.
It also happens on fresh tires, half throttle input. I get that going 300 kph on Sarthe in heavy rain makes the car unstable, yet this is different. It's perfectly fine on other laps and I'm nowhere near the speed instability barrier yet.
Another attempt at that race ruined by
Yeah, that water meter is filled up pretty good. You were haulin' it hard enough you aquaplaned
- 5,652
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
finally drove both GT4/GT3… love GT4s! But those GT3 whoa!! 😳 you guys running TCS right? Reminded of ACC… There’s no way I could drive those without tcs.. the Audi is a monster but extremely tricky! I kept going into turn way to fast which lead to entry oversteer and me spinning a lot of times.
- 679
- mrPetros
Can someone explain what happens here? I have this happen more often, on the Spa straight, Deep Forest, Tsukaba, Nordschleife straight. This time I saved a clip and I heard a sound just before it happened. But what is it. TCS blips as the car goes into a spin.
It also happens on fresh tires, half throttle input. I get that going 300 kph on Sarthe in heavy rain makes the car unstable, yet this is different. It's perfectly fine on other laps and I'm nowhere near the speed instability barrier yet.
Another attempt at that race ruined by
see that bar left of the tires?
when it moves up to that threshold, bad **** happens
doesnt matter that there was no visible puddle of water in front of you
I guess kaz knows sadism
- 3,052
- England
- kilesa4568
PD need to introduce a race director to red flag races with that much standing water.
Can the AI aquaplane too?
Can the AI aquaplane too?
Yeah i didn't see any puddles either. It was wet but no clear difference to the tarmac 10, 20, 30 yards before it. Imo the problem is always devs trying to be too clever. Trying to create too much realism where total realism without actual SOP is impossible, doesn't matter how good the ffb, the graphics, your wheel, your rig is. There has to be some understanding that true SOP and true physics will never exist for a game, and you have to give the player a chance. If it was a puddle (and as said, clear loss of traction through standing water which overwhelmed the tyre tread) then it needs to be clearly visible on what is about a 1 inch square of a 4k 40inch screen, and clearly felt, with the player given at least 0.3s to react. The only clue here was the rise in revs. Maybe that was enough?
Racing the AI with attempted total realism is fine, but against other players it's going to get real frustrating real fast. It will kill multilayer numbers and kill racing for all but the top 1,000 in the world. How does that help PD, Sony or gamers?
PC2 fell over with the same problem, made worse by the ffb being terrible, but they did try by making things like dirt on the track look very obvious to a player at 150mph, if not very realistic looking as a result.
- 2,344
- Bristol UK
- GTP_Chris
Can someone explain what happens here? I have this happen more often, on the Spa straight, Deep Forest, Tsukaba, Nordschleife straight. This time I saved a clip and I heard a sound just before it happened. But what is it. TCS blips as the car goes into a spin.
It also happens on fresh tires, half throttle input. I get that going 300 kph on Sarthe in heavy rain makes the car unstable, yet this is different. It's perfectly fine on other laps and I'm nowhere near the speed instability barrier yet.
Another attempt at that race ruined by
Hey, judging by the looks of it you hydroplaned. Youre on very used intermediate tyres hauling it on a very wet surface.
Legit
- 874
- bristol
- smokebeer
- FOGSmokebeer
Well I've just about managed to drive everything in the cafe until i hit the porches (not my favourite place to put a engine) and spun it almost every turn lol so went and spent my 1st hour tuning on my favourite test track brands indy. Tried all the old tricks without much luck but after a while i started to suss it out and the strange thing is the better the tune the lower the PP went when it was real bad it went over the 650 pp limit and when i had it driving real well it was -20pp so i could have gone and added parts or more wing etc i honestly don't know what they are thinking. Dirty tricked i used was to start up my fh5 tuning app to see what it said about a 911 gt3 with added understeer and it set me in the right direction 
- 444
- Sweden
Uhm... Let's call that "skill" "fear" instead. In real life you'd have fear. That'd prevent you from overdoing it. Just pretend that you're driving IRL and you'll be fine.
My gear is nothing special. It's the official wheel. And the Fanatec recommended settings are just fine.
Also, there's a fundamental difference between being modest and humble. I'm humble but not modest. You're not humble, and that's why you're having problems, since it difficult to learn when you're not humble.
- 375
Having the same problem with the porche cup. Tried a lot of different setups with weight ballasts up front giving 40:60 weight dist for better stability. Tried various weight/power combos. Now added aero front, side, rear diffuser and a little less power to get the PP down (435 odd HP). This is all in the 09 model 911 RS3. I ran racing hard tyres in Maggiore, now running intermediate on Nurburgring. I get 4th at best. Overtook for 3rd one time but couldn't slow down carefully enough once over the hill on the final strait. Managed 3rd on Spa, I was in first place but once the rain stopped I was apparently too conservative and the AI wanted to wedge in and push my rear end on corners. Managed not to spin but let them pass me one after the other. They drive real slow in the heavy rain, but after when there is still a lot of water on the track they speed up more than I want to.
Nurburgring is hard because passing is harder. I also suck at the final bits after the first banked corner. I get real conservative. I regain on the straight but slowing down an RR car carefully is just so hard...
Nurburgring is hard because passing is harder. I also suck at the final bits after the first banked corner. I get real conservative. I regain on the straight but slowing down an RR car carefully is just so hard...
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- 393
- Germany
- RaceFace85
They really fixed the handling and I'm really happy how it is now.
I testet a new Mazda Roadster with the lowest possible power.
Before the patch:
After the patch:
I testet a new Mazda Roadster with the lowest possible power.
Before the patch:
After the patch:
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- 375
Off topic but I noticed in your video that power is displayed in KW. Weird Germany gets the options to display power in KW but here in Australia we are forced to use HP even though we as a country use KW.
I just wish they'd give us the option. Same deal with kg/fm vs NM. The two are easy to roughly convert in your head luckily, but why not give us options? I found it odd that when the game was installing it defaulted to MPH (the only unit setting you can change) for the music rally and I couldn't find where to change it until I was in the world map after install. Odd that it wouldn't even auto detect my region for this (past GT games have) let alone give no options for power when people in other countries either auto detect or have the option... It's like it's set via language, not region.
Anyway I mastered the unruly 911 well enough to get 2nd (almost 1st) on the nurburgring. It was raining the whole 2nd half of the race this time which favoured me well. The AI are just too quick for me in the semi wet - at least with an RR car... stupid RR!
I just wish they'd give us the option. Same deal with kg/fm vs NM. The two are easy to roughly convert in your head luckily, but why not give us options? I found it odd that when the game was installing it defaulted to MPH (the only unit setting you can change) for the music rally and I couldn't find where to change it until I was in the world map after install. Odd that it wouldn't even auto detect my region for this (past GT games have) let alone give no options for power when people in other countries either auto detect or have the option... It's like it's set via language, not region.
Anyway I mastered the unruly 911 well enough to get 2nd (almost 1st) on the nurburgring. It was raining the whole 2nd half of the race this time which favoured me well. The AI are just too quick for me in the semi wet - at least with an RR car... stupid RR!
- 3,052
- England
- kilesa4568
Thank you for that highly enlightening insight.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,437
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
For AC? Nope, not at all. iRacing yes, because it suffered (when I last gave it a go) with the same absurd over the limit grip fall off that GT 7 does.
sorry, but no it's not.
This 100% this.
Its standing water, not a puddle. The gauge on the HUD on the left shows how much standing water you are in.
First Third - normal tyres should be fine
Second Third - IM needed
Last Third - Full wets needed
If your on the wrong tyre, slow down, as hydroplaning is caused by your speed being too high for the tyres to clear the volume of water and they are unable to cut through the water and end up with a layer of water between the tyre and the road surface. Slowing down will allow the tyre to cut through, particularly in the case shown in your video as it was only just into the top third on the start/finish straight.
I am driving the cars as I would in real life, a good number of them are the exact same cars I have driving in real life, so I can only conclude that PD has made GT 7 so real that it's more real than reality.
Techniques that I have used, for decades, with success in reality do not work in GT 7. I'm not alone in this, those people in the various videos that litter the internet showing them being able to drift stock 350Z/370Z/S15/MX-5 (of all gens) are not a group of mysterious driving gods.
GT 7's over the limit behaviour is wrong.
A bone stock 370Z being drifted without people yeeting off to their deaths, this must be wrong, as GT 7 doesn't let you do this, clearly some CGI going on here!
The limit before the tyres let go has increased slightly, the past the limit behaviour is still the same (and doesn't match reality).
- 261
- Lisbon
Alright I now get you guys are talking mostly about mostly stock road cars here. Misunderstanding makes sense since I don't drive them much.
And yeah I know the differences but to say GT is on the same level as iRacing is a bit ridiculous. You can easily hold a powerslide on GTS even with slicks.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,437
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
I'm not talking about GTS, I'm talking about GT 7.
- 670
- London
- potatoe506
Really? I think the stock suspension setup of the 996 GT3 is very good compared to most road cars I've tried, good traction out of corners and very nice balance overall. Maybe it just suits my driving style more though.Well I've just about managed to drive everything in the cafe until i hit the porches (not my favourite place to put a engine) and spun it almost every turn lol so went and spent my 1st hour tuning on my favourite test track brands indy. Tried all the old tricks without much luck but after a while i started to suss it out and the strange thing is the better the tune the lower the PP went when it was real bad it went over the 650 pp limit and when i had it driving real well it was -20pp so i could have gone and added parts or more wing etc i honestly don't know what they are thinking. Dirty tricked i used was to start up my fh5 tuning app to see what it said about a 911 gt3 with added understeer and it set me in the right direction
I'd noticed that about the PP as well, there are some obvious flaws to it. Like the turning stability for example, the closer the high speed stability rating is to 0, the higher the PP rating goes. That might make sense for something like Sophy which perfectly knows the limits of grip and is capable of inhuman consistency, but unfortunately for us humans, that 'perfect' high speed stability is actually much harder to handle than a more forgiving -1.00 understeer balance, and as a result most people are going to be faster over 10 laps with the 'slower' setup than they would be with the 'faster' setup that makes it much harder to avoid mistakes.
Oh and if you set your gearing so your top speed is 149mph or below, the PP rating takes a massive drop, because the system looks at your high speed (150mph) cornering G, sees that you're incapable of turning at all at that speed (because you can't actually reach it), and interprets it incorrectly as meaning that you physically can't turn at all at high speed. You can abuse that on some tracks where you'd never go that fast anyway and run a better power/weight ratio than you should be able to. Buuut that's probably for the bugs thread.
- 5,377
- Bel Air, MD
- NOVA-0479
Going to dive in a little more with the physics discussion. I agree in 2 ways:
1. The Overall physics and feel are much better than gtsport or any gt that came before...and imo are much closer to the AC physics that I have always enjoyed.
2. Something is wrong just past the limit of usable grip at the rear of the cars.
My example negates any theories based on application of power as the cause, or lift off oversteer being the cause. This example is simply rolling through the corner at 35- 40 mph and spinning out.
We use the '16 Porsche 911 GT3RS spec'd into a 991 Porsche GT3 Cup car for our series...all racing everything, on race hard or medium tires. Using Lago Maggiore GP as a test track, overall the car with a decent tune is confident and grippy right up to the edge and is catchable, even in medium to high speed corners, and very confident on the power exiting these corners. However, the big tell that something is off on the rear physics, is at the low speed/sharp turn 2 right corner. After braking and turning into t1 without any fuss and settling the car down, I simply turn and roll the car to the right thru the corner....this yields around 35-40mph. With no power added and all braking done before the corner, the tail still wants to come around unless you loosen up the wheel to the point of almost straight as you round the corner. Everywhere else the car is fun and great to drive. I can accept some snappiness at medium to hi speed corners on racing tires as there is alot of cornering load on them before grip is lost...so a snap is expected once past the limit....but a low speed corner with very little lateral force applied and no power on top of it....I'm not buying the spin there.
Imo, there is a flaw in the rear tire/suspension physics. If they tone or dial in that snappiness to be a bit more progressive on the loss of grip at the rear in low speed corners, the the medium to high speed corner snappiness could be expected and accepted....no things on race tires. Comfort tires should have very little snappiness to them at all as they represent all season passenger tires....they should progressively lose grip and scream at you while doing it. Sport tires should carry added levels of grip, but should still have a progressive cliff for grip to fall off.
Lastly, as mentioned many times already in this thread, another way to see the rear tire physics issue in its most obvious form....go on the straight, with Race hard tires and a 500hp car and launch it (again, I used my Porsche). Yes, there should be some tire spinning, for sure, but the car should be rolling out and gaining some forward momentum as well. Instead, the car just sits and spins and ever so slowly moves until you grab 2nd gear or come out the throttle. This to me is the most glaringly obvious example/test.
Front end grip feels well executed. If they can fine tune the rear without it taking away from the front, they could very well end up with a diamond in the rough on the physics department.
I've enjoyed following this discussion, and hoping that adjustments will come soon.
1. The Overall physics and feel are much better than gtsport or any gt that came before...and imo are much closer to the AC physics that I have always enjoyed.
2. Something is wrong just past the limit of usable grip at the rear of the cars.
My example negates any theories based on application of power as the cause, or lift off oversteer being the cause. This example is simply rolling through the corner at 35- 40 mph and spinning out.
We use the '16 Porsche 911 GT3RS spec'd into a 991 Porsche GT3 Cup car for our series...all racing everything, on race hard or medium tires. Using Lago Maggiore GP as a test track, overall the car with a decent tune is confident and grippy right up to the edge and is catchable, even in medium to high speed corners, and very confident on the power exiting these corners. However, the big tell that something is off on the rear physics, is at the low speed/sharp turn 2 right corner. After braking and turning into t1 without any fuss and settling the car down, I simply turn and roll the car to the right thru the corner....this yields around 35-40mph. With no power added and all braking done before the corner, the tail still wants to come around unless you loosen up the wheel to the point of almost straight as you round the corner. Everywhere else the car is fun and great to drive. I can accept some snappiness at medium to hi speed corners on racing tires as there is alot of cornering load on them before grip is lost...so a snap is expected once past the limit....but a low speed corner with very little lateral force applied and no power on top of it....I'm not buying the spin there.
Imo, there is a flaw in the rear tire/suspension physics. If they tone or dial in that snappiness to be a bit more progressive on the loss of grip at the rear in low speed corners, the the medium to high speed corner snappiness could be expected and accepted....no things on race tires. Comfort tires should have very little snappiness to them at all as they represent all season passenger tires....they should progressively lose grip and scream at you while doing it. Sport tires should carry added levels of grip, but should still have a progressive cliff for grip to fall off.
Lastly, as mentioned many times already in this thread, another way to see the rear tire physics issue in its most obvious form....go on the straight, with Race hard tires and a 500hp car and launch it (again, I used my Porsche). Yes, there should be some tire spinning, for sure, but the car should be rolling out and gaining some forward momentum as well. Instead, the car just sits and spins and ever so slowly moves until you grab 2nd gear or come out the throttle. This to me is the most glaringly obvious example/test.
Front end grip feels well executed. If they can fine tune the rear without it taking away from the front, they could very well end up with a diamond in the rough on the physics department.
I've enjoyed following this discussion, and hoping that adjustments will come soon.
- 2,923
- United Kingdom
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