Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Scaff]

Out of interest how do you rank pcars 2 against assetto corsa physics wise? I only just bought the ultimate edition of ac this week and have been really impressed by it.

Looking forward to comparing cars found in both ac and gt7 in terms of how they feel

AC is the better of the two, you really need AMS2 to get the Madness engine up to AC levels. What PC2 brings to the party is the excellent weather system. FFB wise AC is also ahead, not only in terms of the quality and detail of it, but also because it requires zero buggering about and just works straight out of the box (not something that can be said for Pc1 or PC2).

 

[R3V]

I love the physics/ffb and will be both sad and mad if they change anything because of whiners with poor gear/settings, or people who lack skill, don't want to practice and have egos too big for assists.

Just...wow. Poor gear? Lacking skill? No will to practice? Ego? Wow. All because people are discussing the physics in the physics discussion thread. If all you want to do is praise the game go praise it in some review thread. FYI I know guys who can probably beat you with a controller with no assists.

I really don't want to turn this into an internet "1v1 me" but this post is just so offensive. Can someone race this guy and put him in his place?

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Just...wow. Poor gear? Lacking skill? No will to practice? Ego? Wow. All because people are discussing the physics in the physics discussion thread. If all you want to do is praise the game go praise it in some review thread. FYI I know guys who can probably beat you with a controller with no assists.

I really don't want to turn this into an internet "1v1 me" but this post is just so offensive. Can someone race this guy and put him in his place?

I know two individuals who can spank me with a controller in all conditions. And many with lesser wheels. No need to bother with your suggestion. You're missing the point.

 

[05XR8]

The rear sliding on my ‘20 Civic TCR, feels pretty realistic. Get the cold rear tyre effect. Totally different from GTS.

 

[DPereira_2909]

I'm not talking about GTS, I'm talking about GT 7.

Yeah me too, obviously. Was writing on autopilot, my bad

 

[NevilleNobody]

Project Cars 2 is the single most frustrating game I have ever played. I absolutely love the cars, the sound is EPIC, the tracks are fantastic but dear oh deary me the bugs. Sooooooooooooooo many bugs. Then the physics, I could not get within a dozen seconds of my Project Cars 1 lap times, it was just too hard on a console, you needed a full blown PC rig to enjoy it. If they played their cards right they would be in a position to pounce right now on PD's refusal to have a decent online experience in GT7. It was farcically bad.

In saying that the weather system in PC2 was brilliant, Sven's experience above is ridiculous TBH, random aquaplaning? Like really we're good with that? In PC you saw much more defined wet parts of the track, more defined puddles, GT7 is a guessing game, i can't even tell when it is light rain or a downpour.

So I suspected this would happen, I am hearing that online guys are using AWD or FF cars because the MR and especially FR cars are not competitive. Kaz needs to work out what he is doing here, is Gran Turismo trying to compete head on with ACC and iRacing or will it remain accessible as has been the motto in the past? Right now, the way the cars handle, realistic or not, it is not accessible to casual players.

 

[Veinz]

The livetrack system was amazing in Pcars 2. The rest of the game, not so much imo.

 

[Scaff]

Project Cars 2 is the single most frustrating game I have ever played. I absolutely love the cars, the sound is EPIC, the tracks are fantastic but dear oh deary me the bugs. Sooooooooooooooo many bugs. Then the physics, I could not get within a dozen seconds of my Project Cars 1 lap times, it was just too hard on a console, you needed a full blown PC rig to enjoy it. If they played their cards right they would be in a position to pounce right now on PD's refusal to have a decent online experience in GT7. It was farcically bad.

They tried and if they hadn't been caught up in their own hubris they may have gotten close with it, but PC3 was killed under the weight of SMS's own marketing ********.

So I suspected this would happen, I am hearing that online guys are using AWD or FF cars because the MR and especially FR cars are not competitive. Kaz needs to work out what he is doing here, is Gran Turismo trying to compete head on with ACC and iRacing or will it remain accessible as has been the motto in the past? Right now, the way the cars handle, realistic or not, it is not accessible to casual players.

Here's the odd thing, the same cars that are a problem over the limit in GT7, are not in other titles that are considered more hardcore. I've run the Camaro SS back to back in both GT7 and AMS2 (imagine PC2 turned up to the max and with all the physics issues ironed out) and it's a considerable easier car to deal with on and over the limit in AMS2 (add in a better sense of weight and all round better FFB as well).

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Its standing water, not a puddle. The gauge on the HUD on the left shows how much standing water you are in.

First Third - normal tyres should be fine
Second Third - IM needed
Last Third - Full wets needed

If your on the wrong tyre, slow down, as hydroplaning is caused by your speed being too high for the tyres to clear the volume of water and they are unable to cut through the water and end up with a layer of water between the tyre and the road surface. Slowing down will allow the tyre to cut through, particularly in the case shown in your video as it was only just into the top third on the start/finish straight.

After sleeping on it, that assessment makes total sense.

Right as it happens that little blue appears in the rain bar, just entering the last third. I've seen that blue appear before when it went wrong. It's pretty binary, touch the no zone and insta spin. But at least now I know what to look out for. If that bar threatens to go up too high, slow down. It would be nice if that crucial information bar was a bit bigger lol.

A lot of these races depend on luck anyway. Rain is different every time, can't plan ahead. If you need and extra 3rd pit stop to deal with the rain, you won't have a shot at winning the race. The AI has much less trouble (and pits three times anyway, is much faster) So only if the RNG gods let you get away with 2 pit stops you have a shot.

Same with the 24 minutes of Le Mans race. First time I had monsoon rain and I had to pit 2 times in the TS050, finished 5th still over 40 seconds behind. Second time I only needed one pit stop, did the whole race on RM, only a bit of rain with the bar staying in the lower 1 third. I was in 4th at the end, 28 sec behind this time, yet the first 3 pitted and I won the race at the 24.069 mark with the AI sitting in the pit...

And luck is needed as the AI is so much faster on the straight after you 'activate' them. I'm right in the slipstream at the start of the straight and they simply pull away and are seconds ahead by the end of the straight. Can't keep up drafting. Actually my first attempt was in the Mark IV race car, yet that can only do one lap on a tank lol. No balance.

@kilesa4568 I don't know if the AI aqua planes, they seem a lot more stable on water than me. However I have also seen them slow down a lot on the wrong tires. But no random spin outs. In all my races so far in GT7 I've noticed the AI causing a yellow flag maybe twice.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Sven's experience above is ridiculous TBH, random aquaplaning

I’d rather have less realism if having my race randomly ruined is going to happen. It’s hard enough just getting a car round a corner, never mind this.

 

[KingXxNoSkill]

I’m a pad player and im using the MotionSense Control (Six Axis) as steering settings on the pad for now 4 years.
It is sensational to use since you can steer your pad like a wheel and i have been very much competitive with that in sports mode and in league races and since im just a casual player i never planned really to get a wheel if i can do similar things on the controler already.

However i have to admit that in GT7 it is very much a pain in the a** to drive with that and pad in general.
Due to GT7 Physics the car became really sensitive in different aspects (Braking, Cornering etc.)

Braking/Throttle: Although the force feedback on the pad while braking and on throttle is decent there is a major issue for pad player using the Motion Sense Control like me. Since you aren’t locked in position (your a holding the pad in front of you), unlike in a wheel or the lock range on the steering stick on pad, you are inevitable moving your pad around resulting in small steering inputs. This is generally a major problem with the new sensitive physics of GT7. Regarding Braking the game will recognise the steering input while you are under braking resulting due to the sensitive physics in your car spinning out under braking especially in heavy ones.
Similar happens on the throttle.
You can theoretically fix this by lowering the sensitivity of the pad or using Assists however this results in the car getting more understeer resulting in slower pace and even still not fixing all issues mentioned above everytime

Cornering:
Another aspect why the pad is failing on people (at least for me) since the pad cant send out force feedback that you are losing the car (rear stepping out). Sure the controller vibrates to simulate that but you cant argue that having force feedback is much easier to cope with the physics on the car and on the pad in some cases doesn’t give you feedback until just before you actually losing the car and spinning out as a result. Especially with the new sensitive physics it is very much crucial to get feedback.
Another factor as mentioned before is that the game recognised minimal steering inputs of the motion sense control. Combined with the physics of GT7 you now need to be extremely smooth on the pad to avoid losing the car which is a challenge itself to succeed. As previously said you cant reduce this issue by lowering the controller sensitivity ot with assists but it results in you getting slower and it will not fix all problems

Racing:
This is the point where it turns sour for me with the pad. All points before where just experiences driving alone and it it already challenging on the pad to drive alone but racing against others is very much another level. Although on smaller speed scale it is sometimes not really difficult to race however top class race car such as gr.1 or gr.x (sf19, x2019) where cars are cornering so fast it’s impossible to avoid spinning out during wheel to wheel racing or following another car since the complications of missing/delayed cornering feedback, sensitive physics and the pad complications itself (mentioned above).

At this stage its very much unbearable experience on the pad on GT7, at least for me. And i have spoken to other drivers who reported the same. Especially when racing others there are people turning assists just on for the online races since its difficult on the pad to race without. I doubt with more mileage and experience it gets any better. The new physics really nerfed the ability and joy on the pad and i have never been so close to bin it and switch to a wheel which im not keen on

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I’d rather have less realism if having my race randomly ruined is going to happen. It’s hard enough just getting a car round a corner, never mind this.

At least I now know what to avoid. I didn't know about the thirds on the rain bar, but since @Scaff explained it, it's a simple game mechanic again. Not random, instead rather instant and thus predictable. Of course that rain gauge fluctuates a lot if you wander of the dry line, yet in this case the whole track was simply getting pummeled with water.

Avoid the bar going into the second third if on normal tires, slow down if it gets too close.
Avoid the bar going into the top third if on intermediate tires, slow down if it gets too close.

For online races it's going to be a mess. Draft passes in the rain, forget about it. Move off the line to make a pass, bar shoots up, aquaplane death. So just follow people when the rain hits.

@KingXxNoSkill I agree with the lesser feedback. I go back to GT Sport for a couple races and there is a lot more aural feedback from the tires and rumble feedback from the controller when driving on the edge. It all feels rather muted in GT7. I already turned the tire squeal up to +5, still hard to hear in bumper cam. I guess I can reduce the rest to make the tires louder comparatively. Will also look for options to increase the rumble feedback.

In GT Sport on PS5 with the dual sense I was really impressed with the precision and timing of the feedback. Rumble strips, road edges, as soon as a wheel touched them you felt it and its distinctly different on what you touch. In GT7 not so much. (However it also seems far less 'dangerous' to attack kerbs and get a wheel in the grass in GT7, much easier. No more insta spins when getting a wheel on the grass on N24 at the wrong time)

 

[NevilleNobody]

The livetrack system was amazing in Pcars 2. The rest of the game, not so much imo.

I get pretty annoyed at games that try to do everything but fail at the fundamentals, PD is guilty of it too. With Project Cars, they had a great live track, really interesting race car classes, the sound was superb etc, there's the backbone of a racers dream game, there really is. But the physics, UI and online were all farcical and that's before we get to the bugs, it was just LITTERED with them.

I go against the grain here and suggest PD needs to trim down the GT series. It is pretty clear since launch that we have two camps, the car collectors and the online racers, yes there's some overlap but there are also folks who hated GTS because offline was apparently poor and those who don't care for offline and just want the GTS experience. PD's focus should be on meeting demand for both these markets within the same game, it can be done, but resources are not infinite so to free up the development dollars i'd do the following;

• Trim down the list of uninspiring road cars
• Remove all rallying from the game
• Do away with a lot of the fancy for fancy sake videos, talking heads, cut scenes etc, there's SO MUCH of this in GT7 it must have chewed huge resources
• Simplify the menu and UI
• Enable an AI percentage to make it more fun for offline users (so you set Ai speed from 70% to 130% difficulty on a per track basis)

There's a great game here somewhere but developers seem to get lost trying to do too much all the time.

 

[mrPetros]

They really fixed the handling and I'm really happy how it is now.

I testet a new Mauda Roadster with the lowest possible power.

Before the patch:

The "before the patch video" is simply hilarious

 

[Peter.]

Did you use TCS?

I don't, so I certainly didn't expect it to be easy, especially for a car that only very few could handle in real life without assists (the C63). But it's a bit counterintuitive when the ways you're used to resolving a slight loss of traction don't follow at all. Even short shifting doesn't affect the situation at all, you never regain the rear even a little bit, unless you lift off completely and/or straighten up.

 

[kilesa4568]

I know two individuals who can spank me with a controller in all conditions. And many with lesser wheels. No need to bother with your suggestion. You're missing the point.

What point? You seem to have singled me out for criticism when all I've said are a few widely accepted truths on what's happening over the limit.

This weird feud you've got with me needs nipping in the bud. I never use traction control because I enjoy playing my game that way and in the lifespan of the game, I've played it for 4 of the 6 days it's been out. I really have been practicing.

Let's let bygones be bygones, eh?

 

[Scaff]

I don't, so I certainly didn't expect it to be easy, especially for a car that only very few could handle in real life without assists (the C63)

I've driven one, with out assists, it's honestly nothing like as impossible as GT 7 makes out.

 

[ruestchiva]

The more I play the more I understand the logic. I don't particularly feel that the handling of stock cars is bang on, especially the FR cars. But, a well set car really makes such a huge difference once the correct parts are installed. This game really forces you to understand the mechanics of the different components of the car to the point where you can really destroy a cars behavior by overdoing a few clicks on the LSD for example. Truly a very demanding game technically. The more I play it, the better I think it is.

In my opinion, the greatest GT7 ever. And the extra content hasn't even started to come yet. 🤯

 

[lbpomg95]

I'm at a total loss with this game to be honest. I looked forward to it so much, and I've loved even GT5 and GT6, both of which gained so much criticism, yet it's GT7 that's almost got me giving up playing it after a week.

I've always been a pad user (and the idea that you should have to pay for a steering wheel controller to enjoy a racing game just isn't right), and I was genuinely great at GT5, and I was competitive in GT6 and GTS. In GT7, I'm borderline hopeless in anything with RWD. The thing I always loved about GT is that it bridged the gap between feeling realistic and still being playable to the more casual among us. I'd consider myself closer to hardcore gamer (even if only by the hours I put into older games) than casual and I'm completely out of my depth trying to handle even low-ish powered RWD cars.

I got through the unenjoyable career, won all the races to get to the part I always enjoyed in other GT games - buying, tuning and driving cars. I tried tuning a '69 Camaro and ended up just turning the game off. Even with all the suspensions upgrades, weight reduction, slick tyres etc, it simply does not turn on low speed corners, it's literally as if the steering wheel is only being turned by a few degrees. When you eventually get it round and put your foot down a smidge too early, the back end steps out, and you physically can't countersteer enough to keep it straight.

I've tried and tried and tried, and I haven't pulled off a single decent drift in any car, let alone the Camaro. Meanwhile the customisable gear ratios actually don't have an affect on the gears. No matter what, gear 5 is basically a highway gear, bogging the revs down. Some people are saying that the changes made to GT7 from GTS are more realistic, some are saying it isn't, but whatever way you look at it, almost no casual gamer could pick this game up and have fun with it, unless they only drove FF or 4WD cars.

Whining or not, I'm just not enjoying driving in this game, at all. To me, driving in GTSport felt nearly perfect. Sure, it wasn't 100% realistic, but it felt so damn good driving just about any RWD car around the Nurburgring, because it behaved roughly how you expect a high powered car to behave, but you could still rescue it if it went wrong. It made you feel like a frickin hero once you got used to it, and now matter how much I practice or tune the suspension, I can't even get close in GT7.

/rant. Sorry.

 

[JDMKING13]

The more I play the more I understand the logic. I don't particularly feel that the handling of stock cars is bang on, especially the FR cars. But, a well set car really makes such a huge difference once the correct parts are installed. This game really forces you to understand the mechanics of the different components of the car to the point where you can really destroy a cars behavior by overdoing a few clicks on the LSD for example. Truly a very demanding game technically. The more I play it, the better I think it is.

In my opinion, the greatest GT7 ever. And the extra content hasn't even started to come yet. 🤯

I was driving the R8 LMS Evo and it was so intense nothing like what the GR.3 cars in GTS.. I had to run TC3 and still it was a handful!! Like ACC minus the rawness and force feedback sensations!

 

[Lalalalala]

Does anyone know if PD is actually aware/acknowledging of the issue of excessive snap oversteer, or just oversteer in general (especially on FR road cars)?

I think no one would agree that it is in any way realistic at all when you can spin out at 4th gear with a slight hint of turning just a tad too much.

 

[graesand]

Tonight i will play with longtime friend of mine whos been playing online since gt5. He drives for a living and to my knowledge has used the t500 every single flipping day since he got it. Drives only streetcars with a clutch, same as me (mostly).

He got the new DD wheel, not exactly plug and play compared to his old wheel, will be interesting to hear him swear knots on his tongue in his native language about it and the game....

The thing about GT has always been and should always be an easy, plug and play, middleground foray into driving sim where you can buy your plausible reasonable car and drive with friends, atleast it used to be.

After grinding through the cafe, some licenses, just to discover you cant sell cars and just about any tuning you do doesnt change the handling as fundamentally as it should (in the extremities) it comes to mind wether PD even tested it before release. I mean online is so broken and featureless, even less lobbyoption than gtsport bar the obvious new feats. I will try ch in front and rss in rear lol.

 

[graesand]

Does anyone know if PD is actually aware/acknowledging of the issue of excessive snap oversteer, or just oversteer in general (especially on FR road cars)?

I think no one would agree that it is in any way realistic at all when you can spin out at 4th gear with a slight hint of turning just a tad too much.

Hopefully they read some of this, or they know from their instagram comments how dissapointed people are.

Just dont get your hopes up, i could get stuck on the grid or not come out of the pits in gts just last week, they never solved that, and i bet they are neck deep into churning out some sweet music rallys for us just to make the main menu in the game make sense. With a completely senseless and never asked for "feature".

 

[Nielsen]

The rear-mounted weight of MR and RR cars seems exaggerated in GT7. This is another area that felt just right in GT Sport, but is now wildly off the mark. The old Alpine A110 handles like a complete nightmare in GT7, whereas in GT Sport it was a rewarding little beast.

Maybe PD lost their way during the pandemic. Many games released after everyone started working from home have in various ways been worse than their predecessors.

 

[R3V]

The rear-mounted weight of MR and RR cars seems exaggerated in GT7. This is another area that felt just right in GT Sport, but is now wildly off the mark. The old Alpine A110 handles like a complete nightmare in GT7, whereas in GT Sport it was a rewarding little beast.

Maybe PD lost their way during the pandemic. Many games released after everyone started working from home have in various ways been worse than their predecessors.

Interesting. Quality control in the industry I'm in also suffered massively after COVID19.

Maybe PD didn't have real life game testers for GT7? Ones with wheels?

 

[super_gt]

This was super fun, and despite the fact that the back of the car was slipping, I managed to get gold.🙂

 

[Lord Protector]

Just watch, listen and perceive how tyres desperately try to bite into the asphalt and the car launches like crazy. I know, launch control, traction control, all the good stuff. But even a complete layman should see and feel the difference between the tyre behavior here and in GT7.

 

[Jo3f1sh]

I have the exact same 2015 Mustang GT in the game, down to the Premium package with the same wheels and, I would assume, tires that it comes with.

I've done track days in it, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that GT7 got it completely wrong. The car does not snap over-steer without warning, and the limits are MUCH easier to find and play with. Even if tuned with presumably better tires than what my real car has. In GT Sport, it was pretty dang close, and I could drive the car almost exactly how I would drive it on the track.

It also doesn't help that the FFB has been nerfed, and I can no longer really feel what the cars are doing. AND FFB is gone from the curbs. Oof.

 

[NevilleNobody]

Yeah but the video montages before the 3 race championships are beautiful right? I mean just beautiful.

Priorities.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Just had a go at deep forest CE. The r8 evo is like a joke car they included for fun or something. I literally did a 360 at 13mph at quarter throttle. Maybe that’s realistic, obviously I’ve no idea. It did get a laugh out of me so either way they’ve accomplished their goal. No one will use that car for anything other than memes about how alpha they are at this game. It’s like the crysis of racing cars. ‘But can you drive the r8 evo?’

The grip does seem better post patch but they need to work on the FFB. There’s still some curbs with no feedback at all and some feedback about traction loss would mitigate a lot to the issues. They have to be aware of it