Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Imari]

The more publicity this gets, the better. Hoping and praying for an update soon. Wouldn't even mind if they rolled back to the Sport physics or something (If that's even possible).

The thing is, they've spent something like the last five years working on this. Not entirely, but it's the culmination of every piece of work they put into updating the physics in GTS plus the entire development cycle of GT7. They can maybe tweak it a bit, but major changes are unlikely. A radical update to the tyre model, which it sounds like it what's needed, is something we might see for GT8. Polyphony just doesn't work that fast.

They all have extensive track experience but they NEVER spun a car. They are that good.

Apparently low powered rear wheel drive cars don’t spin…yet it’s weird when I’m at historic hill climbs and those little 70hp MG Midgets do spin?

No I can’t work it out either…

The strawmen are back.

 

[JDMKING13]

The wheel goes from bumpy/grainy to smooth when you start slipping in GT7. If it vibrates, you've gone way too far.

And yes, of course there's slipping when you push slightly too much, and if you pay attention you can control it and save those situations.

"Rails or spin into a wall", and nothing in-between, is just false. However, it's not "arcade easy" to slide around like it was in GTS. It's not easy IRL either.

You have DD right? I have T300 so I’m not getting all that great information your getting but I can definitely feel what’s going on with the cars…

I was doing the Tsukuba FR event testing out cars and getting paid while doing it😁 I’m test the 97 Supra and my wheel was pretty light.. the suspension is fairly soft especially once I got in my 370Z… you get in that and instantly my wheel got tight and heavy and steering inputs were sharper. You can feel the difference of a modern sports car vs 90’s. As I keep playing I’m just finding little things that keep making the game better. I even spun at event, I was in first also 😂 it was cool because just let me know you can’t abuse the cars and get away with it like you did in GTS. The cars are so much dynamic now… this is why I reference AC so much because the cars just felt alive compared to GTS.

 

[///M3]

Odd indeed, cars don't just crash at high speeds or whatever:






True, RWD physics are completely broken, just look at the totally unrealistic behavior of the BMWs throughout this entire video:



Cars shouldn't get loose at 60kmh like that!

I learned the hard way, don’t show real physics and bad driving on a “sim” or weirdly “simcade” -yeah I don’t get that either.

Cars don’t crash, everyone is awesome at driving their console and pc games. Being at the ring in real life is not “physics” because MX5s, RX8s and GT86 don’t spin.

Just a heads up

 

[Scaff]

They all have extensive track experience but they NEVER spun a car. They are that good.

No one, literally no one has said this, so quit the strawman arguments.

 

[RaceFace85]

I learned the hard way, don’t show real physics and bad driving on a “sim” or weirdly “simcade” -yeah I don’t get that either.

Cars don’t crash, everyone is awesome at driving their console and pc games. Being at the ring in real life is not “physics” because MX5s, RX8s and GT86 don’t spin.

Just a heads up

They spin but not in every corner!

 

[///M3]

The thing is, they've spent something like the last five years working on this. Not entirely, but it's the culmination of every piece of work they put into updating the physics in GTS plus the entire development cycle of GT7. They can maybe tweak it a bit, but major changes are unlikely. A radical update to the tyre model, which it sounds like it what's needed, is something we might see for GT8. Polyphony just doesn't work that fast.


The strawmen are back.

Hey, read my posts, it’s not hard in this thread. The way rear grip is a bit off, it’s not worse than in the real world but it manifests in a way with no actual feedback. By the time it hits the FFB in the wheel or rumbles the controller it’s at the late end of the spectrum.

That said driving to get round and adjusting your driving as the supra video shows probably pays dividends rather than just flat out foot to the floor it should work.

 

[Dunderbolt]

You do get information from the wheel slipping or when they reach their limit… It just doesn’t feel like AC… I played PC2 but I could never get my Feedback right in the game.. AC does it way better because you can feel the tires a lot better… in GT you get this vibration when turning and I do get a little tire slip sensation but nothing compared to what you feel in AC. I Feel I can feel the chassis better in GT7 vs AC and just for me it makes the driving just as good. Again I can definitely feel when the car is about to get out of wack majority of the times I’m good, but there have been instances where I just applied to much gas coming out of turn and spin.

Where? When? Understeer. Yes, definitely. But what sensation does the oversteer give you besides loud screeching when it's already too late and you're fishtailing the car as if you've hit black ice?

I don't see the car slowly begin to rotate, nor is there screeching until the event has occurred. It's grip until there suddenly isn't. I'm not saying having to do a bit of countersteer means I'm "suddenly" losing grip. But it's like I'm on rails until I suddenly, violently, oversteer.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

You have DD right? I have T300 so I’m not getting all that great information your getting but I can definitely feel what’s going on with the cars…

I was doing the Tsukuba FR event testing out cars and getting paid while doing it😁 I’m test the 97 Supra and my wheel was pretty light.. the suspension is fairly soft especially once I got in my 370Z… you get in that and instantly my wheel got tight and heavy and steering inputs were sharper. You can feel the difference of a modern sports car vs 90’s. As I keep playing I’m just finding little things that keep making the game better. I even spun at event, I was in first also 😂 it was cool because just let me know you can’t abuse the cars and get away with it like you did in GTS. The cars are so much dynamic now… this is why I reference AC so much because the cars just felt alive compared to GTS.

Yep, DD.
If I increase INT (intrapolation of FFB) to 6 or beyond, the sensation becomes more rubbery and that graininess disappears, which makes it harder to feel what's grip and what's slip and where the "edge" in-between is. If I add NDP (dampening), I simulate the inertia with gears/belts in other wheels, which makes the wheel respond and accelerate slower. I can also lower the FFB strength of course.
So, I can simulate a T300 and similar wheels. And yes, it indeed becomes much more difficult to feel what I'm describing, which makes it much harder to drive fast without getting "surprise snap oversteer" or lift-off death with a Audi R8 Gr.3.

I asked a friend with a T300 if she could feel those small details from the road and suspension, that graininess. "Nope, only bumps and force".

 

[///M3]

They spin but not in every corner!

Have you got gold in the licences?

Have you completed the b licence 3 which is get an MX5 round a corner?

Congratulations, because it is impossible to do apparently.

 

[RaceFace85]

Have you got gold in the licences?

Have you completed the b licence 3 which is get an MX5 round a corner?

Congratulations, because it is impossible to do apparently.

I didn't drive the international licences. I lost the motivation because of the handling. I can not take it serious.

 

[Scaff]

Have you got gold in the licences?

Have you completed the b licence 3 which is get an MX5 round a corner?

Congratulations, because it is impossible to do apparently.

Quit the strawman arguments, this thread is divisive enough that those continuing with them (on either side) will be taking a holiday.

 

[JDMKING13]

Yep, DD.
If I increase INT (intrapolation of FFB) to 6 or beyond, the sensation becomes more rubbery and that graininess disappears, which makes it harder to feel what's grip and what's slip and where the "edge" in-between is. If I add NDP (dampening), I simulate the inertia with gears/belts in other wheels, which makes the wheel respond and accelerate slower. I can also lower the FFB strength of course.
So, I can simulate a T300 and similar wheels. And yes, it indeed becomes much more difficult to feel what I'm describing, which makes it much harder to drive fast without getting "surprise snap oversteer" or lift-off death with a Audi R8 Gr.3.

I asked a friend with a T300 if she could feel those small details from the road and suspension, that graininess. "Nope, only bumps and force".

I don’t know what his settings are on but I can feel a lot more information than GTS and the better performance level of the car my wheel is even better with feedback and information.. I can easily feel the difference between a tuned car vs stock even if it’s a lightly tuned car.

 

[///M3]

Quit the strawman arguments, this thread is divisive enough that those continuing with them (on either side) will be taking a holiday.

Woah, my posts are respectful and honest but also pragmatic.

If one flippant comment can’t be countered with another then why does his stand and mine talking about the over the limit grip not being what you’d expect along with the understeer engine braking and grip recovery?

Hmmmm

 

[kilesa4568]

Well, I'm happy it's not just me feeling the wonky physics.

I'll leave you all with it.

 

[Scaff]

Woah, my posts are respectful and honest but also pragmatic.

If one flippant comment can’t be countered with another then why does his stand and mine talking about the over the limit grip not being what you’d expect along with the understeer engine braking and grip recovery?

Hmmmm

First, while I quoted you I was also clearly addressing both sides, you've even quoted me doing so.

Second, It wasn't the first you've made, and just to be clear moderation instructions are not for debate.

 

[RedRockValley]

It's fine to admit GT7's physics aren't perfect, like how almost every other realistic racing games' physics aren't perfect either. They're damn good, but they just have an issue with pushing road cars over the limit. That's all.

 

[RaceFace85]

It's fine to admit GT7's physics aren't perfect, like how almost every other realistic racing games' physics aren't perfect either. They're damn good, but they just have an issue with pushing road cars over the limit. That's all.

Damn good when the most cars aren't able to drive a banked curve without crashing?

 

[RedRockValley]

Damn good when the most cars aren't able to drive a banked curve without crashing?

I haven't really had this experience myself, but I'd rather not get into a debate about physics as it usually ends up becoming very repetitive.

All I'm saying is that, from my personal experience, I'm enjoying the physics a lot but I also acknowledge that they're not perfect either. I respect your opinion, by the way.

 

[Race_Fit]

This thread is a bit of a mess, but I'm going to throw my observations in here as well.

There is something decidedly unfriendly going on with rear wheel physics. But it's not just the in-game physics engine. I think if PD offered up more ways to customize the controller/wheel, a lot of these issues would be resolved. My biggest gripes is it seems the very top of the trigger movement is giving me 50% throttle, you have to be very slow on that first little bit of trigger pull or you'll be jumping on 75% throttle in a heartbeat, and that just feels bad to play. You are walking on eggshells with rwd cars just to not get snap oversteer and a huge chunk of that has to do with overly sensitive inputs. If we could blunt that in settings, it would be much better.
Second issue is ... well the ffb is crap on controller and not great on a wheel. Forza has had haptic trigger feedback for years and what we got with GT7 is awful in comparison. If the triggers just vibrated when you were nearing breaking grip, with both accelerating and braking, more control issues would be solved.

All that being said, something does stink with the in-game physics themselves. Taking a stock brz or really any low power car and having it snap oversteer at 30mph at 4000rpm on half throttle is just not intuitive or realistic. And unfortunately this clearly only affects rwd and to a lesser extent awd, take a FWD car and you can drive it like a pissed off teenager and it's fine. It will let you putdown full power, at the top of the Rev range and it will just pull you through a corner like that, no hint of power-understeer unless you encounter a bump/hill.

And I've talked about it when I first got the game, but I'm really getting convinced that it's something to do with weight transfer. It's as if the game never takes into account the weight moving rearward out of corners, the rear wheels should be loading up with more grip as you leave a corner and it just doesn't seem to happen in a natural way.
Combine that with the control issue and if you modify the suspension it gives you this ridiculous too low, too soft, with an overly stiff ratio spring ration in the rear, and that's what's causing a lot of these issues. It's a combination of all these odd little factors.

 

[xX Jojje Xx]

Yep, DD.
If I increase INT (intrapolation of FFB) to 6 or beyond, the sensation becomes more rubbery and that graininess disappears, which makes it harder to feel what's grip and what's slip and where the "edge" in-between is. If I add NDP (dampening), I simulate the inertia with gears/belts in other wheels, which makes the wheel respond and accelerate slower. I can also lower the FFB strength of course.
So, I can simulate a T300 and similar wheels. And yes, it indeed becomes much more difficult to feel what I'm describing, which makes it much harder to drive fast without getting "surprise snap oversteer" or lift-off death with a Audi R8 Gr.3.

I asked a friend with a T300 if she could feel those small details from the road and suspension, that graininess. "Nope, only bumps and force".

I agree with your friend.
The FFB with the T300 is really lacking when it comes to road, suspension and tire details.

 

[Firestone]

Did anyone notice that they adjusted the rear wheel physics? It's definitely toned down and more progressive and doesn't snap as it did before. I don't know when they adjusted it, but I think they snuck in a hidden update last night. Oversteers are a lot easier to catch with higher throttle inputs. The window is a lot larger.
Just did the Vette IB license test and the RC-F one and cars react totally different. The RC-F is more understeery now when before it used to snap.
If people continue to complain after these updates, I don't know what to say other than people don't want to play a sim. lol

 

[JDMKING13]

This thread is a bit of a mess, but I'm going to throw my observations in here as well.

There is something decidedly unfriendly going on with rear wheel physics. But it's not just the in-game physics engine. I think if PD offered up more ways to customize the controller/wheel, a lot of these issues would be resolved. My biggest gripes is it seems the very top of the trigger movement is giving me 50% throttle, you have to be very slow on that first little bit of trigger pull or you'll be jumping on 75% throttle in a heartbeat, and that just feels bad to play. You are walking on eggshells with rwd cars just to not get snap oversteer and a huge chunk of that has to do with overly sensitive inputs. If we could blunt that in settings, it would be much better.
Second issue is ... well the ffb is crap on controller and not great on a wheel. Forza has had haptic trigger feedback for years and what we got with GT7 is awful in comparison. If the triggers just vibrated when you were nearing breaking grip, with both accelerating and braking, more control issues would be solved.

All that being said, something does stink with the in-game physics themselves. Taking a stock brz or really any low power car and having it snap oversteer at 30mph at 4000rpm on half throttle is just not intuitive or realistic. And unfortunately this clearly only affects rwd and to a lesser extent awd, take a FWD car and you can drive it like a pissed off teenager and it's fine. It will let you putdown full power, at the top of the Rev range and it will just pull you through a corner like that, no hint of power-understeer unless you encounter a bump/hill.

And I've talked about it when I first got the game, but I'm really getting convinced that it's something to do with weight transfer. It's as if the game never takes into account the weight moving rearward out of corners, the rear wheels should be loading up with more grip as you leave a corner and it just doesn't seem to happen in a natural way.
Combine that with the control issue and if you modify the suspension it gives you this ridiculous too low, too soft, with an overly stiff ratio spring ration in the rear, and that's what's causing a lot of these issues. It's a combination of all these odd little factors.

One of the problem I think people are running into is throttle input… it’s nowhere near the same as GTS no where!!! I notice this as soon as I was spinning out… A small touch and your already at 50%… this is going to affect RWD car a lot more than FF… The throttle input is better in GT7 it’s just different than GTS which made it easier to drive every car at the limit…

Spinning out comment I’m sorry it’s just not happening to me.. yes when I first got the game and was giving throttle inputs which I was use to using from GTS… as soon I switch my driving up, better steering inputs better throttle response the cars became easier to drive.

You are on a controller right?

 

[wheelhp]

This thread is a bit of a mess, but I'm going to throw my observations in here as well.

There is something decidedly unfriendly going on with rear wheel physics. But it's not just the in-game physics engine. I think if PD offered up more ways to customize the controller/wheel, a lot of these issues would be resolved. My biggest gripes is it seems the very top of the trigger movement is giving me 50% throttle, you have to be very slow on that first little bit of trigger pull or you'll be jumping on 75% throttle in a heartbeat, and that just feels bad to play. You are walking on eggshells with rwd cars just to not get snap oversteer and a huge chunk of that has to do with overly sensitive inputs. If we could blunt that in settings, it would be much better.
Second issue is ... well the ffb is crap on controller and not great on a wheel. Forza has had haptic trigger feedback for years and what we got with GT7 is awful in comparison. If the triggers just vibrated when you were nearing breaking grip, with both accelerating and braking, more control issues would be solved.

All that being said, something does stink with the in-game physics themselves. Taking a stock brz or really any low power car and having it snap oversteer at 30mph at 4000rpm on half throttle is just not intuitive or realistic. And unfortunately this clearly only affects rwd and to a lesser extent awd, take a FWD car and you can drive it like a pissed off teenager and it's fine. It will let you putdown full power, at the top of the Rev range and it will just pull you through a corner like that, no hint of power-understeer unless you encounter a bump/hill.

And I've talked about it when I first got the game, but I'm really getting convinced that it's something to do with weight transfer. It's as if the game never takes into account the weight moving rearward out of corners, the rear wheels should be loading up with more grip as you leave a corner and it just doesn't seem to happen in a natural way.
Combine that with the control issue and if you modify the suspension it gives you this ridiculous too low, too soft, with an overly stiff ratio spring ration in the rear, and that's what's causing a lot of these issues. It's a combination of all these odd little factors.

I wonder if playing with dampers and anti roll bars could "dirty fix" some of the snap oversteer in some cars, with a focus on deadening the peak grip from the front end. There's also toe in for the rear and fiddling with camber on both ends. I'd also try installing an LSD and locking/messing with the initial torque and decel value. In GT Sport You had to adjust your roll bars for different tracks for a setup to be raceable and confident.

Of course if tuning does nothing for some cars, then the only solution is to avoid those cars and wait for the inevitable physics update

 

[xtro01]

I found that its easier to go fast with rwd cars if you really enter faster in the corners and make them understeer. Turn until you feel vibration in the wheel then control the turn with the throttle and brake. It you dont put enough stress in the front tires its too easy to unbalance them or turn in too slow and lose them when you try to accelerate. The charger hellcat for example with 0 tcs is quite easy to control that way same for the very fun gr86

 

[///M3]

I wonder if playing with dampers and anti roll bars could fix some of the snap oversteer in some cars. In GT Sport You had to adjust your roll bars for different tracks for a setup to be raceable and confident.

I loosen the anti rollbars for the wet stuff and generally for inclement weather stuff in real life.

In the game it works on track focused stuff as you get damping compliance without a lot of the stiffness but who knows as lateral support isn’t highly accurate. Haven’t tried with an aggressive LSD setting though, so one may counter the other

 

[Lord Protector]

Did anyone notice that they adjusted the rear wheel physics? It's definitely toned down and more progressive and doesn't snap as it did before. I don't know when they adjusted it, but I think they snuck in a hidden update last night. Oversteers are a lot easier to catch with higher throttle inputs. The window is a lot larger.
Just did the Vette IB license test and the RC-F one and cars react totally different. The RC-F is more understeery now when before it used to snap.
If people continue to complain after these updates, I don't know what to say other than people don't want to play a sim. lol

There's no ninja updates, you're just getting used to the game mechanics, it's called muscle memory, and it's the reason you feel this way. And please don't insult people with such absurd arguments.

 

[JDMKING13]

There's no ninja updates, you're just getting used to the game mechanics, it's called muscle memory, and it's the reason you feel this way. And please don't insult people with such absurd arguments.

Did they put the rally jump physics fix in the game notes?

 

[Lord Protector]

Did they put the rally jump physics fix in the game notes?

They didn't and it's not even proven it's changed something. If you have a proof, I'll be more than happy to see it. I've already asked for a proof one gtp user who claimed the physics are different, no response.

As far as I'm concerned, rallying feels just as bouncy as before and the same goes for the tyre grip.

Also, Firestone was talking about a "hidden overnight" update, not the update you're talking about.

 

[JDMKING13]

They didn't and it's not even proven it's changed something. If you have a proof, I'll be more than happy to see it. I've already asked for a proof one gtp user who claimed the physics are different, no response.

As far as I'm concerned, rallying feels just as bouncy as before and the same goes for the tyre grip.

Also, Firestone was talking about a "hidden overnight" update, not the update you're talking about.

Wait so your saying after the update you didn’t notice the difference between landings? Ok man no problem. Lmao at the proof I been asking you and others to post laps… and nothing but talk…

 

[///M3]

The rally stuff is just weird though. I think it’s the surface modelling but jumps are jumps, you can land them.

It’s just as odd as the drifting mechanic to be honest.