Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Race_Fit]

One of the problem I think people are running into is throttle input… it’s nowhere near the same as GTS no where!!! I notice this as soon as I was spinning out… A small touch and your already at 50%… this is going to affect RWD car a lot more than FF… The throttle input is better in GT7 it’s just different than GTS which made it easier to drive every car at the limit…

Spinning out comment I’m sorry it’s just not happening to me.. yes when I first got the game and was giving throttle inputs which I was use to using from GTS… as soon I switch my driving up, better steering inputs better throttle response the cars became easier to drive.

You are on a controller right?

I'm not spinning out. I don't really think I mention spinning out. Unless you mean my snap oversteer comment.
To which you've probably adjusted and avoid the situation as I have. I'm mentioning it because I shouldn't have had to make an adjustment because the cars shouldn't be rotating that hard on throttle, especially a 300hp car not in its powerband. This is whats unintuitive.
I've adjusted around the issue, it's why I can speak about it from multiple facets. You've admitted to adjusting to the issue as well. And you've encountered the same issues with overly sensitive throttle inputs, which adds a further layer to highlighting the underlying issue of too much rotation.

I am largely using a controller, mainly because I just like to chill out and tune and hotlap mostly. The wheel is a bit much to set up and is annoying for jumping through menus. Honest the DS5 has been shockingly good, outside of the triggers being numb and their sensitivity.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

I just bought an F12berlinetta. Stock tires are Sport Hard. With 691 bhp, you'd think it's an undrivable monster, but it's actually quite manageable, even on DualSense with TC at zero.

The wet thing is what's getting me. I've driven under heavy rain before and the cars in the game react like you expect (strong water resistance which forces a pull to the side, easy aquaplaning and so on), but something tells me those road tires should grip better. The speeds you must drive at are ridiculous.

 

[JDMKING13]

The rally stuff is just weird though. I think it’s the surface modelling but jumps are jumps, you can land them.

It’s just as odd as the drifting mechanic to be honest.

I know they fixed something bro I literally had to crawl over the jump in order for my car not to be flipped lol. It was insane… you still can get mess up though but it’s not as easy as before.

 

[Johnnn]

I know they fixed something bro I literally had to crawl over the jump in order for my car not to be flipped lol. It was insane… you still can get mess up though but it’s not as easy as before.

The change to the physics and jumps are sure thing.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Did anyone notice that they adjusted the rear wheel physics? It's definitely toned down and more progressive and doesn't snap as it did before. I don't know when they adjusted it, but I think they snuck in a hidden update last night. Oversteers are a lot easier to catch with higher throttle inputs. The window is a lot larger.
Just did the Vette IB license test and the RC-F one and cars react totally different. The RC-F is more understeery now when before it used to snap.
If people continue to complain after these updates, I don't know what to say other than people don't want to play a sim. lol

Yeah I think I can back you up on this. The Ford GT LMGTE doesn’t seem as suicidal now, though it can still kill you. The Porsche 911s are much more tolerable but they still oversteer when they shouldn’t. In short, it’s a workable physics at the moment that still needs work with regards to tire grip.

GT7 is strange in that I know and accept its physics are wonky overall but yet I find this game much more fun and addicting than GT Sport.

I just hope the other posters can settle down a bit and realize it’s just a game at the end of the day. It’s not the end of the world if something doesn’t work as it should, as annoying it can be. It’s only been a week since release and we already saw some changes implemented.

We have seen PD change the tire grip in GT sport massively, for better or worse that’s down to interpretation. So I’m not honestly too fussed because PD can make large changes if need be.

 

[Race_Fit]

I wonder if playing with dampers and anti roll bars could "dirty fix" some of the snap oversteer in some cars, with a focus on deadening the peak grip from the front end. There's also toe in for the rear and fiddling with camber on both ends. I'd also try installing an LSD and locking/messing with the initial torque and decel value. In GT Sport You had to adjust your roll bars for different tracks for a setup to be raceable and confident.

Of course if tuning does nothing for some cars, then the only solution is to avoid those cars and wait for the inevitable physics update

I've tried a bunch, but I haven't gone crazy with it yet, you can fix some cars handling (like porsches) by using balast to move the weight forward, but to me this is way too "dirty" of a fix because they shouldn't handle in that manner in the first place.

I've tried gimping lsds but that doesn't work perfectly, you also lose acceleration making it beneficial to just be more timid on the gas.

I'd have to say that generally anything that makes the car friendlier is slowing it down in someway. But as a tip if you are fitting adjustable suspension, first thing is to balance the spring rate to neutral or front heavy, kick down the dampers in the back in relation to the front, and make sure your minimum ride height is 15-20mm over bottom. And I've found giving the car a slight 2-3mm height in the rear over the front improves a lot of rwd cars (goes against conventional wisdom, but probably has to do with suspension travel.)

 

[Tenacious D]

All that being said, something does stink with the in-game physics themselves. Taking a stock brz or really any low power car and having it snap oversteer at 30mph at 4000rpm on half throttle is just not intuitive or realistic.

Well, but here's the thing, what do you consider half-throttle? In real life, half-anything, be it half gas pedal, half RPMs on the tach or whatever, you had better be in a low gear or you're pushing too hard in a turn and in danger of losing it. You barely give any real life car a touch of pedal and it wants to go.

Lord Protector mentioned a couple of things that have me head scratching. A few pages back, he mentioned that tire grades have more impact in lateral grip turns than linear straight line acceleration. Now, maybe I'm lost on this, but this sounds like real life to me. You will accelerate faster on racing rubber, but you aren't going to really go much faster overall on street or sport vs racing tires. The main job of those softer compounds is to help your car take turns fast. He was also grateful that GT7 got rid of that tire squeal. Again, in real life, tires will squeal when they are losing their grip. My Supra Mk III - God rest her soul - on Dunlops would let me know well they were handling turns with very distinct squeaks to squeals. And in a video game with imperfect FFB, which is all of them, the only other thing left to communicate with you is tire noise.

As nervous a racer as I am, I'm also a hypercompetitive snot. Many times I've spun, with all the assists, and sometimes I have no clue what the deal was. It varies from car to car, though I'd expect that. But most of the time I know I was greedy and overdoing it, and look at a replay in chase cam to see what I was doing wrong. And I'm not a shabby racer. I'm within the top 10% of GT players. I've beaten a real life racer on the Raceroom time trial leaderboards. Though there were plenty of e-pros above me, darn them.

I'm beginning to think the naysayers are overstating the situation more than the yays. Not to say I like the physics as they are, I want them tended to myself. I've stated I think they rushed GT7 to meet the deadline and driving physics suffered from it. Yes, reality is more real (duh) and better, and other racers do things better. I just think the degree is a casualty in this debate.

One more quick edit: I wish there was a tire grade between sport soft and racing hard, a competition tire or something, but maybe that's kind of what racing rains are. And I want Race Mod, Tuner Mod, but that's a bit OT.

 

[Lord Protector]

Wait so your saying after the update you didn’t notice the difference between landings? Ok man no problem. Lmao at the proof I been asking you and others to post laps… and nothing but talk…

I didn't, I've always been cautious when jumping. How exactly do any lap times help you to determine the issues we're talking about? You want me to prove you I can adapt to GT7 and be fast even though I say it's not real?

 

[Animera]

I set up my T300 to try GT7 with a wheel.
Tried TC on 0 as that is how I've always played GT before but it's a no go now.
Since I'm used to running TC on ACC and iRacing, I set it to 3 and now it's easy to drive all the cars.

 

[Peter.]

Damn good when the most cars aren't able to drive a banked curve without crashing?

THIS. I was completing the Cafe book for the Mustang and the oval was easily the hardest event to complete. I know high speed driving with cars with no downforce is going to come with its quirks, but the rear of the car (the dreaded Camaro of death) feels like it's aquaplaning once you get loose, and it's bone dry.

 

[Firestone]

There's no ninja updates, you're just getting used to the game mechanics, it's called muscle memory, and it's the reason you feel this way. And please don't insult people with such absurd arguments.

IB-1 Test with the Vette around Willow Springs, you can carry the speed around the corner with throttle modulation at 50%, before the car would snap at anything above 25%. I talked to a guy at an autox session yesterday that plays the game even mentioned this. It's a lot easier to catch potential oversteers.

The IB-6 with the M3 in the rain at RBR, I hopped on and went half a second faster than my previous time that I struggled to even get close to Gold with.

And like I said, the IB-3 with the RC-F, the car understeers and gets nowhere to snap oversteering as before. Slides can be held a bit longer.

I've also also done probably over 100 laps trying to tune a FRS around Deep forest for Daily Race B. I haven't played since Friday but hopped on a few moments ago and noticed that I can hold on to slides with higher throttle input and correct them a lot easier, with the same setup.

I also was running the Daytona Daily Race C With the Tom's Supra GR3 and it feel a lot stickier.

Something definitely changed or I must have missed the details in the update.

 

[Race_Fit]

Well, but here's the thing, what do you consider half-throttle? In real life, half-anything, be it half gas pedal, half RPMs on the tach or whatever, you had better be in a low gear or you're pushing too hard in a turn and in danger of losing it. You barely give any real life car a touch of pedal and it wants to go.

Lord Protector mentioned a couple of things that have me head scratching. A few pages back, he mentioned that tire grades have more impact in lateral grip turns than linear straight line acceleration. Now, maybe I'm lost on this, but this sounds like real life to me. You will accelerate faster on racing rubber, but you aren't going to really go much faster overall on street or sport vs racing tires. The main job of those softer compounds is to help your car take turns fast. He was also grateful that GT7 got rid of that tire squeal. Again, in real life, tires will squeal when they are losing their grip. My Supra Mk III - God rest her soul - on Dunlops would let me know well they were handling turns with very distinct squeaks to squeals. And in a video game with imperfect FFB, which is all of them, the only other thing left to communicate with you is tire noise.

As nervous a racer as I am, I'm also a hypercompetitive snot. Many times I've spun, with all the assists, and sometimes I have no clue what the deal was. It varies from car to car, though I'd expect that. But most of the time I know I was greedy and overdoing it, and look at a replay in chase cam to see what I was doing wrong. And I'm not a shabby racer. I'm within the top 10% of GT players. I've beaten a real life racer on the Raceroom time trial leaderboards. Though there were plenty of e-pros above me, darn them.

I'm beginning to think the naysayers are overstating the situation more than the yays. Not to say I like the physics as they are, I want them tended to myself. I've stated I think they rushed GT7 to meet the deadline and driving physics suffered from it. Yes, reality is more real (duh) and better, and other racers do things better. I just think the degree is a casualty in this debate.

You can take one to Tsukuba and see the issue.

If you have any track driving experience you would have seen that many cars understeer at their limits, even RWD. Which means if I'm hot in a corner the car is going to push before rotating. Even if I jump hard on the gas, there is still a bit of a moment where the rear wheels will just push the car, you need to overwhelm the rear wheels to get oversteer in those situations. And that's what's missing, you instantly overwhelm the rear tires, in all cars in game. Even cars that you pretty much can't do that to in real life.

And really I don't find it awful, I just adjust around the problem. There are control related issues that exacerbate what's going on, if those issues were fixed I don't think the underlying handling model would really be that bad at all. But.... there is still a slight issue there.

That's what I'm ultimately getting at, the dog piling I see of people accusing people of needing to get good and other people saying that the game is unplayable is a bit out of control in here. The game needs to be adjusted to communicate better than you are over driving the car and there should be additions to options to customize sensitivity of control inputs (like every other sim and simcade game has) but on the other side of the coin, part of the base game Sim is its a bit idiosyncratic with how it handles and there is nothing wrong with saying that should be looked at as well.

 

[Firestone]

Yeah I think I can back you up on this. The Ford GT LMGTE doesn’t seem as suicidal now, though it can still kill you. The Porsche 911s are much more tolerable but they still oversteer when they shouldn’t. In short, it’s a workable physics at the moment that still needs work with regards to tire grip.

GT7 is strange in that I know and accept its physics are wonky overall but yet I find this game much more fun and addicting than GT Sport.

I just hope the other posters can settle down a bit and realize it’s just a game at the end of the day. It’s not the end of the world if something doesn’t work as it should, as annoying it can be. It’s only been a week since release and we already saw some changes implemented.

We have seen PD change the tire grip in GT sport massively, for better or worse that’s down to interpretation. So I’m not honestly too fussed because PD can make large changes if need be.

I think people are passionate because people want it to mimic real life, which I have no issue with. For me, I want to use it as a tool to transfer to real life experience, which I have done in the past with training for a Streets of Willow track day, which GT Sport was highly effective. GT Sport cars felt like they had their real live factory aids activated.

I think a few adjustments need to be made. The cars no longer drive like they have no electronic aids from the factory. I think they got closer to what to expect when you buy the car off a lot. Feels more along the lines of GTS.

 

[Lord Protector]

IB-1 Test with the Vette around Willow Springs, you can carry the speed around the corner with throttle modulation at 50%, before the car would snap at anything above 25%. I talked to a guy at an autox session yesterday that plays the game even mentioned this. It's a lot easier to catch potential oversteers.

The IB-6 with the M3 in the rain at RBR, I hopped on and went half a second faster than my previous time that I struggled to even get close to Gold with.

And like I said, the IB-3 with the RC-F, the car understeers and gets nowhere to snap oversteering as before. Slides can be held a bit longer.

I've also also done probably over 100 laps trying to tune a FRS around Deep forest for Daily Race B. I haven't played since Friday but hopped on a few moments ago and noticed that I can hold on to slides with higher throttle input and correct them a lot easier, with the same setup.

I also was running the Daytona Daily Race C With the Tom's Supra GR3 and it feel a lot stickier.

Something definitely changed or I must have missed the details in the update.

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that nothing beats the evidence. I'll try what you're saying.

 

[JDMKING13]

You can take one to Tsukuba and see the issue.

If you have any track driving experience you would have seen that many cars understeer at their limits, even RWD. Which means if I'm hot in a corner the car is going to push before rotating. Even if I jump hard on the gas, there is still a bit of a moment where the rear wheels will just push the car, you need to overwhelm the rear wheels to get oversteer in those situations. And that's what's missing, you instantly overwhelm the rear tires, in all cars in game. Even cars that you pretty much can't do that to in real life.

And really I don't find it awful, I just adjust around the problem. There are control related issues that exacerbate what's going on, if those issues were fixed I don't think the underlying handling model would really be that bad at all. But.... there is still a slight issue there.

That's what I'm ultimately getting at, the dog piling I see of people accusing people of needing to get good and other people saying that the game is unplayable is a bit out of control in here. The game needs to be adjusted to communicate better than you are over driving the car and there should be additions to options to customize sensitivity of control inputs (like every other sim and simcade game has) but on the other side of the coin, part of the base game Sim is its a bit idiosyncratic with how it handles and there is nothing wrong with saying that should be looked at as well.

I could kick out my BMW 3 series extremely easy once I turned of Traction control. But the stability control would set me straight… With the throttle being extremely sensitive and nobdy running electronic aids .. it’s not far fetch for some to spin the car even going slow around turns once a huge amount of throttle input is used in my opinion. I agree and like what you said though!

@Firestone I am also looking for that experience and while GTS was a good game the driving was wayyyyy to forgiving… I mean the FF cars wouldn’t even brake rear traction or oversteer.. I had to put a lower grade tires on the rear just to get the car to feel somewhat realistic… Driving GT3 with no TCS? That’s why I didn’t care if AC was outdated because driving can’t be outdated if you love cars. The driving in that game was so good to be on edge when pushing your car to the limit, AC gave me that sensation vs GTS I could get in a Enzo and drive that thing like it was a Nissan… I’m not looking for that, GT7 gives me that AC feeling.. spending time with the car and learning it…

 

[mirial]

So what your telling me is that once you go over the limit you should feel the loss of traction through some type of progression… My question to you is I can feel the car about to go outta wack and 8/10 I can save the car. When I play AC/Acc and I start to loose the car it’s over I can never catch it. 😂

The problem with ACC is that the POV movement is too slow relative to the actual yaw of the car, ie, you only notice the car is sliding long after it's too late, whereas this has always been one of GT's finest points. If you have to 'feel' the loss of grip from the actual tyre scrub in the game or in reality, you're too slow and your lap times will suffer if you're lucky.

I wonder if the top GT players had a lot of input into the release of the handling given that their skill level may have just set the RWD cars up in a small window which is acceptable to them but to hardly anyone else.

We can't be absolutely sure the handling is wrong (although I suspect it is in many cases) because it's a game where all the consequences are removed and the cars are controlled with usually harsher inputs than in reality which destabilises them more easily. Combine that with no formal driver training at a race school or an apprenticeship served in karts and its little wonder players are finding it difficult. It should be seen as an opportunity to improve and take advantage that it doesn't cost anything (other than time) as you can crash and spin as much as you like until you get it right.

 

[JDMKING13]

The way you explained it, is exactly what happens to me and this is why, GT which has mediocre Road feel(better in GT7) I could still feel the cars better.

 

[///M3]

The problem with ACC is that the POV movement is too slow relative to the actual yaw of the car, ie, you only notice the car is sliding long after it's too late, whereas this has always been one of GT's finest points. If you have to 'feel' the loss of grip from the actual tyre scrub in the game or in reality, you're too slow and your lap times will suffer if you're lucky.

I wonder if the top GT players had a lot of input into the release of the handling given that their skill level may have just set the RWD cars up in a small window which is acceptable to them but to hardly anyone else.

We can't be absolutely sure the handling is wrong (although I suspect it is in many cases) because it's a game where all the consequences are removed and the cars are controlled with usually harsher inputs than in reality which destabilises them more easily. Combine that with no formal driver training at a race school or an apprenticeship served in karts and its little wonder players are finding it difficult. It should be seen as an opportunity to improve and take advantage that it doesn't cost anything (other than time) as you can crash and spin as much as you like until you get it right.

Perfect description.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I just bought an F12berlinetta. Stock tires are Sport Hard. With 691 bhp, you'd think it's an undrivable monster, but it's actually quite manageable, even on DualSense with TC at zero.

The wet thing is what's getting me. I've driven under heavy rain before and the cars in the game react like you expect (strong water resistance which forces a pull to the side, easy aquaplaning and so on), but something tells me those road tires should grip better. The speeds you must drive at are ridiculous.

Oh, I don't know about that. When the rain is (relatively) heavy on the highway, even travelling at 100kph is dicey. I was in LA once and saw the highway traffic slow to a crawl during a mild storm. My real life car can feel light and disconnected from the asphalt at speeds above 110 when the rain is heavy.

I've been on a wet track, and yes, there is decent, but unpredictable grip. And that changes from track to track. Anything painted though, and forget it. It's like ice. And you really want to avoid puddles because you'll lose a lot of heat in your tires very rapidly, so I'd say they did a decent job.

 

[Lord Protector]

Oh, I don't know about that. When the rain is (relatively) heavy on the highway, even travelling at 100kph is dicey. I was in LA once and saw the highway traffic slow to a crawl during a mild storm. My real life car can feel light and disconnected from the asphalt at speeds above 110 when the rain is heavy.

I've been on a wet track, and yes, there is decent, but unpredictable grip. And that changes from track to track. Anything painted though, and forget it. It's like ice. And you really want to avoid puddles because you'll lose a lot of heat in your tires very rapidly, so I'd say they did a decent job.

Not that it’s very important for the topic but I’ve heard LA drivers go crazy and rather don’t drive anywhere if they see a slight drizzle so

 

[Lalalalala]

I am not good at this game but I did gold all the licenses up to s4 so far (0 assist except low ABS). For what it's worth, I get that driving within the limit is all good (evidence by my gold licenses), but my experience so far is that I would easily spin out 9/10 times and get 1 good run. There isn't really anything in between because as soon as I start to oversteer, it's likely impossible to save. If I attempt to counter steer the likely result is that it snaps the other way, instead of may be powersliding thru it.

The poster who mentioned the over sensitive throttle (input not proportional to the actual travel of the gas pedal) might have something to do with it.

 

[Firestone]

I could kick out my BMW 3 series extremely easy once I turned of Traction control. But the stability control would set me straight… With the throttle being extremely sensitive and nobdy running electronic aids .. it’s not far fetch for some to spin the car even going slow around turns once a huge amount of throttle input is used in my opinion. I agree and like what you said though!

@Firestone I am also looking for that experience and while GTS was a good game the driving was wayyyyy to forgiving… I mean the FF cars wouldn’t even brake rear traction or oversteer.. I had to put a lower grade tires on the rear just to get the car to feel somewhat realistic… Driving GT3 with no TCS? That’s why I didn’t care if AC was outdated because driving can’t be outdated if you love cars. The driving in that game was so good to be on edge when pushing your car to the limit AC gave me that sensation vs GTS I could get in a Enzo and drive that thing like it was a Nissan… I’m not looking for that, GT7 gives me that AC feeling.. spending time with the car and learning it…

Yeah, GT7 has overall better feel. GTS production cars were not bad, it's just that they stayed relatively stable at the limit. GT7, the cars are more stable now than at release while you can still be punished at the limit. I think it feels good. You can still throw the balance off your car and go into oversteer spins, it's just not as snappy as before.

I drive the EvoX irl and I can say for a fact that the car in the game to reality is nearly 1:1. I think road cars have always been a strong point for GT since GTS. I'm very particular about the feeling of the cars as I have a lot of experience tossing this car around irl and going back to the game to verify the feeling in the steering and how the car reacts.

 

[Techlet]

Second issue is ... well the ffb is crap on controller and not great on a wheel. Forza has had haptic trigger feedback for years and what we got with GT7 is awful in comparison. If the triggers just vibrated when you were nearing breaking grip, with both accelerating and braking, more control issues would be solved.

This has been my experience too. The trigger FFB on the Dualsense in GT7 just feels very numb and inconsistent compared to other games.

 

[Firestone]

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that nothing beats the evidence. I'll try what you're saying.

Yes indeed. Try it out. It's definitely different 100%. I think the adjusted the dynamic and static friction of the tires. There is definitely more slip angle before the car goes into an uncontrollable slide.

 

[Johnnn]

This has been my experience too. The trigger FFB on the Dualsense in GT7 just feels very numb and inconsistent compared to other games.

I think it's rather consistent. I asked since PS5 release how this kind of triggers could work well. And I was right, it can't. I usually try it in every game but then disable in the system because I don't want any motor pushing against me. Haptic is fine for sure but rumble triggers are much better for racing.

 

[Terronium-12]

Before I waste time and money, is the F40 worth picking up or does it handle like a bag of wet rocks as well?

 

[Td04]

I went on gt sport before, driving m3 e46 and 458 Italia I just drove on gt7.
Gts is totally arcade. I can't belive someone can say it has a better physics .. You can totally rape the car into a corner, abuse of steering and throttle.
You will always just understeer, in a very safe way.
If Pd fix a Lil the oversteer on gt7, make it a Lil more progressive expeccialy in low torque cars, the game's physics will not be perfect, cause perfection isn't of this world, but a good example of it..

 

[NikNakTobasco]

After a few days of exclusively using race cars I’m starting to really enjoy my time with gt7. To be honest I couldn’t abide the road car grind. Found it dull as dishwater and quite frustrating. But the group cars are actually incredibly rewarding to drive.

It’s clear now that they’ve put a huge emphasis on throttle control and feel through the turns and slightly less importance on the rather clinical and binary mechanics of its predecessor. In GTS you spot your brake point, trail brake in to the apex and floor it out. This meant you could do repeatable and consistent laps. GT7 is so different, incorporating a bunch more variables like weight transfer, elevation change, camber and ambient conditions its much more immersive and engaging. On the downside the realisation is dawning on me that my DR A rank from Sport is probably a false indicator of my abilities. Nothing more than the result of grinding good lap times. GT7 requires you to have much better all round control of the car which is probably why I’m on TC1 and the top players are able to stay at 0.

I’ll never use a road car again in this game so I don’t know if I’m just getting used to it or they are still as broken as I felt they were at the time. And the oversteer does need taming a bit in my opinion but the last thing I would want to see is a reversion to the GTS all brake all gas approach. And that’s a bit of a u turn from my initial position.
Sorry for the essay.

 

[Lord Protector]

Before I waste time and money, is the F40 worth picking up or does it handle like a bag of wet rocks as well?

Actually it’s pretty good I think. The long gears are a nice change, I’m running TCS1 and it feels pretty good on acceleration, it’s all over the place under braking but that’s probably expected. I think it lacks a bit of downforce in high speeds for such a car I think.

Out of all powerful road cars, the F40 seems to hit the spot for me probably the most. I’d say go for it 👍🏻

 

[CBH]

Thanks. I will try these and report back.

@HugoTwoWheels settings for the GT DD Pro they will work with your standard one, so you should wait until you get a 8Nm booster kit before testing and reporting back.