Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Lalalalala]

After a few days of exclusively using race cars I’m starting to really enjoy my time with gt7. To be honest I couldn’t abide the road car grind. Found it dull as dishwater and quite frustrating. But the group cars are actually incredibly rewarding to drive.

It’s clear now that they’ve put a huge emphasis on throttle control and feel through the turns and slightly less importance on the rather clinical and binary mechanics of its predecessor. In GTS you spot your brake point, trail brake in to the apex and floor it out. This meant you could do repeatable and consistent laps. GT7 is so different, incorporating a bunch more variables like weight transfer, elevation change, camber and ambient conditions its much more immersive and engaging. On the downside the realisation is dawning on me that my DR A rank from Sport is probably a false indicator of my abilities. Nothing more than the result of grinding good lap times. GT7 requires you to have much better all round control of the car which is probably why I’m on TC1 and the top players are able to stay at 0.

I’ll never use a road car again in this game so I don’t know if I’m just getting used to it or they are still as broken as I felt they were at the time. And the oversteer does need taming a bit in my opinion but the last thing I would want to see is a reversion to the GTS all brake all gas approach. And that’s a bit of a u turn from my initial position.
Sorry for the essay.

Actually as soon as I get to the Tom's supra license test, it was a dream to drive. All the road cars are just bad.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

Here's another factor for that snap oversteer I've noticed. It looks like even small steering inputs on the controller in an effort to countersteer end up quickly turning the wheel fully to that direction. This is something I've felt multiple times and I've just had it happen again. I moved the stick slightly to the left and the steering wheel and red HUD dot both went far to the left, and then didn't want to move back to center.

I haven't seen anyone else report this specific thing so I'd like to see if anyone else has this problem, or if it's just something I need to figure out.

 

[Johnnn]

Here's another factor for that snap oversteer I've noticed. It looks like even small steering inputs on the controller in an effort to countersteer end up quickly turning the wheel fully to that direction. This is something I've felt multiple times and I've just had it happen again. I moved the stick slightly to the left and the steering wheel and red HUD dot both went far to the left, and then didn't want to move back to center.

I haven't seen anyone else report this specific thing so I'd like to see if anyone else has this problem, or if it's just something I need to figure out.

GT had always very filtered input and some helpers there. It's not good but I hoped I can accommodate. There is going so much without me I am not sure if physics is broken or partly it's because of broken input. At least wheel users have the same problems. But precise controls are probably impossible in this casual games on a gamepad.

 

[DaRealPoverty]

I learned the hard way, don’t show real physics and bad driving on a “sim” or weirdly “simcade” -yeah I don’t get that either.

Cars don’t crash, everyone is awesome at driving their console and pc games. Being at the ring in real life is not “physics” because MX5s, RX8s and GT86 don’t spin.

Just a heads up

It’s actually really hard to spin a modern car. And usually when people crash, it’s because they have outbraked themselves. They don’t just slide off the track or snap oversteer off the track

Instagram: jason_rs

There you can see me doing 170mph, 205mph, 140mph, all different conditions, roads, corners, and i haven’t spun or crashed and died by suddenly snapping off the road.

 

[BigJimmy]

Say what you want about the physics but having a ball. I've just tuned up a Jazz to the max and stiffened up the rear and with some rigid anti roll bars, it's now got lift off oversteer like an 80s French hot hatch. Attempting the Clubman plus race at Tokyo is hilarious fun. Not won yet but I'm close.

Edit to add.. I must be a moron.

 

[extreme car]

The IB-6 with the M3 in the rain at RBR, I hopped on and went half a second faster than my previous time that I struggled to even get close to Gold with.

I actually had to retry this license test because I didn't get the rain license trophy. I didn't notice any change on the physics on this test whatsoever, I got close to my best time but not better. I think you got faster time because you weren't pushing the car as hard on your first try and now that you got used to the GT7 physics better, you got the better time.

 

[Firestone]

It’s actually really hard to spin a modern car. And usually when people crash, it’s because they have outbraked themselves. They don’t just slide off the track or snap oversteer off the track

Instagram: jason_rs

There you can see me doing 170mph, 205mph, 140mph, all different conditions, roads, corners, and i haven’t spun or crashed and died by suddenly snapping off the road.

Except they do. lol



By the way. Nice TTRS

 

[freedom1104]

I've synced up Hot Version's video to mine, just the 2 corners on the infield and last corner is not really synced but close. gotta give massive points to replay mode in GT7, no racing games has come close to GT7 replay everything looks so nice even on a base PS4. Also I wish I turned off the music on my replay, oh well.

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Oh and GT7 steering wheel animation is only locked at around 360 degree, so you wouldn't see my steering wheel see sawing like crazy when applying the throttle on exit cause I have no idea if the rear tyres were going to murder me with the on/off over the limit tyre grip.

Are you even serious rn? Guy in best motoring video is literally locking up the rear wheel on purpose with a handbrake to do a drift and you are comparing it with GT7 broken rear tyre? ............... ffs...

Just look at the high speed left hander after dunlop corner. how the irl car stay stable on the same speed as you are in GT7 but in gt7 you are doing tons of steering correction to keep the car straight.



see how there is no oversteer whatsoever when doing a normal run? why are you cherrypicking best motoring drift check part to make your own comparison

I could even point out more. notice how orido can squeeze the throttle pedal and almost full throttle all the way on the final corner during drift test and he came out fine meanwhile you have to baby the throttle throughout yet ended in a spin?

 

[Snakebitten]

I really don't enjoy the driving in GT7 so far. Cars are unstable, even the race cars have a hard time turning the front end even on softs. Experimented on road cars and on race cars. Also with the weirder physics to deal with, you are massively handicapped against the AI in the pp races. Some of these races are impossible. How can you be in a 550pp race, your car is exactly 550pp and the AI cars are blowing the doors off of you from the dig, the straightaways and in the turns? They even stop better than you. How can they be 550pp? Obviously they are on a slider and what ever car you bring, the AI will be tweaked above that. So far the driving and grinding is my least favorite thing about this game. I cannot play for too long as its frustrating always being handicapped and running into whatever physics bug causes my cars to randomly not turn corners under braking even at slow speeds. I look at the replay and th wheel is cocked to take the turn, but even at 30mph or less it just plows straight ahead as if you are going 100mph plus. Makes no sense.

GT Sport driving was more enjoyable driving physics imho. Don't know what Kaz is trying to do with this version.

 

[platocplx]

Honestly I think tuning has a big deal with how cars feel Imo. Messing with weight transfer etc, I think just stock def will always have certain driving quirks.

 

[extreme car]

Are you even serious rn? Guy in best motoring video is literally locking up the rear wheel on purpose with a handbrake to do a drift and you are comparing it with GT7 broken rear tyre? ............... ffs...

Just look at the high speed left hander after dunlop corner. how the irl car stay stable on the same speed as you are in GT7 but in gt7 you are doing tons of steering correction to keep the car straight.



see how there is no oversteer whatsoever when doing a normal run? why are you cherrypicking best motoring drift check part to make your own comparison


View attachment 1123772


I could even point out more. notice how orido can squeeze the throttle pedal and almost full throttle all the way on the final corner during drift test and he came out fine meanwhile you have to baby the throttle throughout yet ended in a spin?

Uhhh did you read up on my experience on the previous page? It's excatly what you wrote. I had to do a lot of seesawing to guess where the limit of the tyre before I spin. the snap oversteer at exit of corner is the most troubling part of this car where in the hot version video it's a touch of understeer at exit corner.

EDIT: I also ripped the handbrake as well if you watch carefully the indicator turned on for a sec.

 

[Firestone]

I really don't enjoy the driving in GT7 so far. Cars are unstable, even the race cars have a hard time turning the front end even on softs. Experimented on road cars and on race cars. Also with the weirder physics to deal with, you are massively handicapped against the AI in the pp races. Some of these races are impossible. How can you be in a 550pp race, your car is exactly 550pp and the AI cars are blowing the doors off of you from the dig, the straightaways and in the turns? They even stop better than you. How can they be 550pp? Obviously they are on a slider and what ever car you bring, the AI will be tweaked above that. So far the driving and grinding is my least favorite thing about this game. I cannot play for too long as its frustrating always being handicapped and running into whatever physics bug causes my cars to randomly not turn corners under braking even at slow speeds. I look at the replay and th wheel is cocked to take the turn, but even at 30mph or less it just plows straight ahead as if you are going 100mph plus. Makes no sense.

GT Sport driving was more enjoyable driving physics imho. Don't know what Kaz is trying to do with this version.

The game is going along the lines of more hardcore sims. The physics are not weird. The game went the direction of AC and even has more detail in certain aspects with the physics model than iRacing, a game that professionals use. There was quite a lot of detail missing from GT Sport's physics. PD stepped into the right direction with this game. Unfortunately it caught a lot of people off guard. Over the years, GT games gave a false sense of what a car shouldn't do at the limit.

 

[Animera]

... even has more detail in certain aspects with the physics model than iRacing ...

Please elaborate, I'm interested to know what aspects.

 

[wheelhp]

The game is going along the lines of more hardcore sims. The physics are not weird. The game went the direction of AC and even has more detail in certain aspects with the physics model than iRacing, a game that professionals use. There was quite a lot of detail missing from GT Sport's physics. PD stepped into the right direction with this game. Unfortunately it caught a lot of people off guard. Over the years, GT games gave a false sense of what a car shouldn't do at the limit.

I can agree that overall the physics are a step forward you can tell they have a direction, but they should not have released it with the RWD tyre physics in this bad a state. It's poor time management on their part that there's a consistent issue with the driving model at launch. My only question is, what were PD doing for 5 years?

 

[Imari]

The game is going along the lines of more hardcore sims. The physics are not weird. The game went the direction of AC and even has more detail in certain aspects with the physics model than iRacing, a game that professionals use. There was quite a lot of detail missing from GT Sport's physics. PD stepped into the right direction with this game. Unfortunately it caught a lot of people off guard. Over the years, GT games gave a false sense of what a car shouldn't do at the limit.

In which aspects does it have more detail than iRacing?

 

[Terronium-12]

The game is going along the lines of more hardcore sims. The physics are not weird. The game went the direction of AC and even has more detail in certain aspects with the physics model than iRacing, a game that professionals use. There was quite a lot of detail missing from GT Sport's physics. PD stepped into the right direction with this game. Unfortunately it caught a lot of people off guard. Over the years, GT games gave a false sense of what a car shouldn't do at the limit.

For the love of all things sane, no.

I've played Assetto Corsa extensively since it released and there was never a single moment where I took, say, the SLS AMG into a corner and it just...snap oversteered. The loss of grip was progressive, as it should be because there's this wonderful force called friction. When there's an incremental loss of it, the car begins to behave in unpredictable yet controllable ways if caught early enough.

In GT7, there is no progression. The loss of grip is instantaneous. That's not how tires work. It's not how friction works. It's not how physics works. We're driving on virtual asphalt not a perpetual layer of black ice. he only time a loss of grip can be instantaneous is when outside factors are at play: hydroplaning, the tire explodes because it came into contact with sharp debris, the wheels catch air for some reason or another at high speeds, etc, etc.

EDIT: I should amend this by saying there are cars that handle exceptionally well, all things considered. One of them being the E92 M3, the AMG GT Black feels good considering the amount of power going to the rear wheels and yet is still balanced enough to actually take corners and not be a complete loss of time. So it's not an issue of every car on the roster being a flaming pile of junk, but there's a growing number that are and they stick out like a sore thumb.

Then there's the underlying issues with the physics engine itself that every single car is subject to, regardless of how well it handles out of the gate. Tire grip is not an on/off switch and it'd be nice if people would stop pretending it is. GT7 is not more realistic than AC or ACC, nor is it more realistic than iRacing.

What I reckon those of you that continue to bring this up are doing, is confusing realism with preference. It's OK to prefer GT7 and it's OK to prefer AC, ACC, pCARS, etc, etc.

 

[Tenacious D]

I feel like I'm in some kind of a Twilight Zone. Surely me, some doddering old crust who goes from nannying cars around curves to tromping the gas like Chewbacca within a gearshift, I can't be one of the better drivers in this place. Can I? I'm actually enjoying this car torture. The physics are a chore sometimes, but for me it's a fun chore, and I'm picky.

I just finished the 600PP Championship in a Corvette ZR1 '09, with intermediate rain tires. It felt numb, like I was driving in half an inch of water all the time, on dry tracks no less. Even with decent FFB, it felt loose and slippery every moment, and the tires were constantly squeaking. And man, do I hate Dragon Trail Seaside. It seems like PD pulled a prank and switched the reverse label on us, because the reverse course is way more fun, makes more sense and is a lot faster for me. I won the championship handily, on hard, though I had to settle for second at Suzuka because the darn RE Amemiya RX-7 refused to let me hold onto first. It was a little tense, especially in the Red Bull rain mess, but it was a fun tense.

Am I just weird that I'm dialing myself in on how this thing works? I dunno, I'm not that good, just pretty okay. Is it patience? I know the physics is a bit wonky. You can still stomp the gas in powerful street cars when it should throw you right into a ditch, but it doesn't. Yet if I give a car just a bit too much of something, here comes that ditch. I love the physics and racing in Live For Speed, Assetto Corsa and Raceroom, which I think I must have plunked down close to $300 on that sucker. And I joke about iRenting. And if AC really is free right now on the PS Store, I should grab it just for the heck of it.

But I don't want to touch those racers right now, and probably won't for months. This weird GT critter is just too fun for me. Well, keep complaining. It might make PD nervous enough to produce a physics update in a week or two that makes it really fun for all of us.

 

[FA_Hayes]

Personally I like the physics with exception of the obvious transition of grip at the limit and a still heavily loaded ffb during extreme understeer.

Why the wheel doesn't lighten similar to ACC is beyond me. It's a step in the right direction and I'm sure it will get better with time.

One thing I still really like is the pedal input changes and after a week of driving it's really apparent how much closer it is to real world in some regards.

When I started GTS I was amazed by how much you could abuse overlapping inputs when I was struggling for competitive lap times because I always drove as close to real world as possible.

In GT7 this is a hard habit to break and you definitely get punished for it. I've also found it accentuates the grip threshold issue as well as snap oversteer.

With adapting back to more real world input methods it becomes less of an issue but yeah, it needs some tweaks.

It will be fun for a while but given how much time I want to invest in driving I think I'm better suited with a PC setup and going full time ACC or I racing. GT is a great game for what it is. I just want more out of the experience. Yay for spending more money!

 

[dabz343]

In GT7, there is no progression. The loss of grip is instantaneous. That's not how tires work. It's not how friction works. It's not how physics works.

If I take your word that loss of grip is instantaneous, then how is Jimmy doing this? And if I accept what I am seeing in Jimmy's vid, then how am I to believe you?...Gotta say, it's difficult to follow your assertions when I'm seeing Jimmy saw at the wheel of a 930 in the rain...unless you have vids on the contrary?

I don't know what you are using/doing to have the kind of experience you are describing. I don't want to guess or judge. If you can, share a vid. That way you have credibility.

For me, I'm with the reasonable voices here -- PD has some housekeeping to do, but general underlying physics is a good starting point.

 

[Tenacious D]

One thing I still really like is the pedal input changes and after a week of driving it's really apparent how much closer it is to real world in some regards.

I have a feeling that some of the physics complaints stem from some people having a completely different behavior state when they play a video game, some people, and they wouldn't drive in real life like they do their pet sims. Muscle memory habits and perception are powerful influences over us. Maybe not, but it would explain a few heated posts in here.

GT7 is a bit schizophrenic in regard the pedaling. While you can often stomp the gas without consequence as I mentioned above, mostly it requires some finesse or the car won't like you.

 

[FA_Hayes]

I have a feeling that some of the physics complaints stem from some people having a completely different behavior state when they play a video game, some people, and they wouldn't drive in real life like they do their pet sims. Muscle memory habits and perception are powerful influences over us. Maybe not, but it would explain a few heated posts in here.

GT7 is a bit schizophrenic in regard the pedaling. While you can often stomp the gas without consequence as I mentioned above, mostly it requires some finesse or the car won't like you.

I agree.

Granted I only drive GR3 and GR2 as well as using higher end gear and a load cell the new engine does feel nice.

One thing I noticed on throttle is it almost reacts opposite of GTS. Where you would slowly apply 50% then mash it on exit.

In GT7 I've found I can be more aggressive ramping to 75% then wot on exit to negate spin with no TC. Also. Also being able to modulate 75 to 100 percent throttle is quite nice. I'm very much a throttle steer type of guy and even being able to back off 5% is pretty awesome now.

 

[Firestone]

Please elaborate, I'm interested to know what

Wet weather is definitely more detail. No other game has the dynamics of a dry line developing over the course of the race, not to mention the varying level of grip depending on the amount of water on the surface.
Some were also commenting on the details of the curbs and contact patches of the tires being more than just binary.

 

[driftnick13]

I tried a drift build, there are so many issues, you have almost no feeling of what the car is doing, you end up sawing the wheel a lot because of it, also you can be spinning the wheels while turning and the car drives forward like you aren't spinning the wheels or you are mid drift and the car just stops drifting.

Wet weather is definitely more detail. No other game has the dynamics of a dry line developing over the course of the race, not to mention the varying level of grip depending on the amount of water on the surface.

Multiple other games have it, pretty sure both RF2 and AMS2 the dry line is where cars are driving not just a set dry line like in GT and some other sims.

 

[Firestone]

For the love of all things sane, no.

I've played Assetto Corsa extensively since it released and there was never a single moment where I took, say, the SLS AMG into a corner and it just...snap oversteered. The loss of grip was progressive, as it should be because there's this wonderful force called friction. When there's an incremental loss of it, the car begins to behave in unpredictable yet controllable ways if caught early enough.

In GT7, there is no progression. The loss of grip is instantaneous. That's not how tires work. It's not how friction works. It's not how physics works. We're driving on virtual asphalt not a perpetual layer of black ice. he only time a loss of grip can be instantaneous is when outside factors are at play: hydroplaning, the tire explodes because it came into contact with sharp debris, the wheels catch air for some reason or another at high speeds, etc, etc.

EDIT: I should amend this by saying there are cars that handle exceptionally well, all things considered. One of them being the E92 M3, the AMG GT Black feels good considering the amount of power going to the rear wheels and yet it still balanced enough to actually take corners and not being a complete loss of time. So it's not an issue of every car on the roster being a flaming pile of junk, but there's a growing number that are and they stick out like a sore thumb.

Then there's the underlying issues with the physics engine itself that every single car is subject to, regardless of how well it handles out of the gate. Tire grip is not an on/off switch and it'd be nice if people would stop pretending it is. GT7 is not more realistic than AC or ACC, nor is it more realistic than iRacing.

What I reckon those of you that continue to bring up are doing, is confusing realism with preference. It's OK to prefer to GT7 and it's OK to prefer AC, ACC, pCARS, etc, etc.

They fixed the oversteer problem. It's more progressive now. I have AC on the PS4. I have a few problems with the production cars in the game. It's basically on the opposite end where the cars have immense understeer. The GTR Nismo reacts like a FWD car. One of the modders of the game that I spoke about this on reddit said that the physics engine was based on rwd cars and the code for the GTR was missing anything that allowed for the car to torque vector around corners. It performed more like an open diff awd. The FRS/GT86 does not turn in well at all and feels pretty flat. I'd go on to say GT Sport had better production car dynamics.
Modders have taken over AC, so I can see how it is having a different reputation, but I still do question the accuracy of the mods.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

If I take your word that loss of grip is instantaneous, then how is Jimmy doing this? And if I accept what I am seeing in Jimmy's vid, then how am I to believe you?...Gotta say, it's difficult to follow your assertions when I'm seeing Jimmy saw at the wheel of a 930 in the rain...unless you have vids on the contrary?

I don't know what you are using/doing to have the kind of experience you are describing. I don't want to guess or judge. If you can, share a vid. That way you have credibility.

For me, I'm with the reasonable voices here -- PD has some housekeeping to do, but general underlying physics is a good starting point.

Jimmy Broadbent isn't alone. There are plenty of us who have no issues with the physics/FFB and love the experience. That's without assists of course. And you'll probably see more and more Youtube videos and Twitch streams of it.

 

[wheelhp]

If I take your word that loss of grip is instantaneous, then how is Jimmy doing this? And if I accept what I am seeing in Jimmy's vid, then how am I to believe you?...Gotta say, it's difficult to follow your assertions when I'm seeing Jimmy saw at the wheel of a 930 in the rain...unless you have vids on the contrary?

I don't know what you are using/doing to have the kind of experience you are describing. I don't want to guess or judge. If you can, share a vid. That way you have credibility.

For me, I'm with the reasonable voices here -- PD has some housekeeping to do, but general underlying physics is a good starting point.

I'm a fan of Jimmer too. But in this exact video you linked at 5:50 mark in, he actually criticizes the game's physics.
He says he's blown away but right after mentions "the wet weather handling in this game isn't quite what I'd say realistic" People can drive it with all its flaws and still call the game unrealistic. "hard" or unrealistic physics don't equate to realism.

If you watch the entire video, you can see he crashes into the barrier and goes off track etc, he didn't get that perfect lap he was aiming for. His preemptive car control was impressive throughout nonetheless.

At 11:10 He further criticizes it "GT needs to have a dry line under the surface of the water"

Edited timestamp from 11:19 to 11:10 to avoid further confusion

 

[xX Jojje Xx]

Jimmy Broadbent isn't alone. There are plenty of us who have no issues with the physics/FFB and love the experience. That's without assists of course. And you'll probably see more and more Youtube videos and Twitch streams of it.

The DD ( 8Nm ) experience…😊
Enjoying the game and would love to try it out and compare with my T300.

 

[dabz343]

But in this exact video you linked at 5:50 mark in, he actually criticizes the game's physics.
He says he's blown away but right after mentions "the wet weather handling in this game isn't quite what I'd say realistic"

Forget what Jimmy says about wet weather for a moment and focus on what he is doing with the 930 turn after turn on a flooded track for over 10 minutes...where is the instantaneous loss of grip? Surely your only takeaway isn't that Jimmy criticized the physics?

Man, trying to have a coherent conversation here is pointless.

Edit -- nevermind

 

[Terronium-12]

So now we're outright pretending some of the cars in the game don't suddenly lose grip without any warning? I see why @Scaff bowed out of this thread now, and I'm going to do the same.

There's just no point.

 

[Firestone]

I'm a fan of Jimmer too. But in this exact video you linked at 5:50 mark in, he actually criticizes the game's physics.
He says he's blown away but right after mentions "the wet weather handling in this game isn't quite what I'd say realistic" People can drive it with all its flaws and still call the game unrealistic. "hard" or unrealistic physics don't equate to realism.

If you watch the entire video, you can see he crashes into the barrier and goes off track etc, he didn't get that perfect lap he was aiming for. His preemptive car control was impressive throughout nonetheless.

At 11:19 He further criticizes it "GT needs to have a dry line under the surface of the water"

At 11:19 he was talking about what GT does better. He was saying trailing behind cars there is more grip since the cars in front displace the water and when he gets out in front there is less grip. He's been praising the wet weather all the time he streams and says it's probably the best simulation of it from any sim.