Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[danardif1]

I seriously think everyone getting caught with oversteer are not realizing their throttle application. Throttle travel and spring return force vary from car to car irl. Like for my car irl, the throttle is very heavy and travels a good distance. With the G27, the foot pedal spring is very light and the travel is very short, so many times I think I’m giving light throttle, I’m actually traveling well past 50% almost to 70%. That’s enough to upset any car irl. What I found is I have to pay attention to my application and where I’m positioning the throttle and get used to my setup from there. I’m not really having that much trouble with rwd cars in the game once I realize this.

There is certainly some truth to this, but the oversteer I've been referring to is off-throttle in what are relatively benign corners with similar or exactly the same cars in other titles.

 

[Johnnn]

It could be more factors but I can tell for sure pedals are problem for me. Normally I play on Xbox controller with vibrating triggers and DS5 is different. No feedback and so sensitive and light. DS5 is not good for racing games.

 

[Scaff]

I seriously think everyone getting caught with oversteer are not realizing their throttle application. Throttle travel and spring return force vary from car to car irl. Like for my car irl, the throttle is very heavy and travels a good distance. With the G27, the foot pedal spring is very light and the travel is very short, so many times I think I’m giving light throttle, I’m actually traveling well past 50% almost to 70%. That’s enough to upset any car irl. What I found is I have to pay attention to my application and where I’m positioning the throttle and get used to my setup from there. I’m not really having that much trouble with rwd cars in the game once I realize this.

That’s the first thing I said was I need new pedals the linear throttle takes time getting use to especially with my light pedal. I have adjusted and love the linear throttle. It makes actually putting you footdown all the way on the throttle that much more pleasurable. I just took a stock GT40 around trial mountain and it was so much fun! No tcs just abs and the way you have to be careful on the throttle, but the pleasure you get coming out of a turn is rewarding!

While it 'might' be an issue for some, it's not for all.

My T-LCM's have a good range of travel and a decent amount of resistance, certainly comparable to some cars I've driven in both counts, I'm also not having to relearn from GTS, as my muscle memory with these pedals is from just about every other title on the market, all of which have a linear travel on them.

Adaptation may be part of the issue for some, but it doesn't excuse the incorrect past-the-limit behavior for some FR cars in GT7.


Edited to add: 50% to 70% throttle application is not "enough to upset any car", it depends on how much torque is being generated, what gear you are in to then determine the wheel torque, how much lateral grip you have, and how much of it's being used for cornering, which is of course determined by the corner. It's perfectly possible to apex a corner in reality with up to 100% throttle application, as it depends on a myriad of factors

 

[s0cks]

I seriously think everyone getting caught with oversteer are not realizing their throttle application. Throttle travel and spring return force vary from car to car irl. Like for my car irl, the throttle is very heavy and travels a good distance. With the G27, the foot pedal spring is very light and the travel is very short, so many times I think I’m giving light throttle, I’m actually traveling well past 50% almost to 70%. That’s enough to upset any car irl. What I found is I have to pay attention to my application and where I’m positioning the throttle and get used to my setup from there. I’m not really having that much trouble with rwd cars in the game once I realize this.

Nah, I eyeball my throttle telemetry, and the throttle is more linear now like in other sims (sims I have no issue in). I mean, I can drive RWD road cars within their limit on GT7, it's just not that enjoyable. It feels too precarious. Too hard to catch it, once the rear slips you might as well spin the roulette wheel to see if you'll save it - in other sims it doesn't feel that way at all.

It's a lot better with TCS on 2/3 though - but that's more of a band aid than a solution.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Let me throw another completely unexpected result in the mix.

I've been doing plenty Fisherman races in between things to top up my credits for tuning etc. I'm not great at the circuit, use the pug and usually end between 3:23 and 3:26 finish times. Enough for 97K.

Today I installed GT7 on my old ps4 pro. It came with the anniversary edition and I was curious how it would run there. Loading times actually aren't as bad as I expected (at least not for the ranch) and it looks pretty good, just some noticeable pop up (trees) while racing.

The mystery, I'm doing the race in 3:17 on ps4 pro, over 6 seconds faster. It wasn't even a great run, just a run of the mill as I've been doing. To check if it wasn't a fluke, I back out to the world map, did another race against a different opponent, 3:17 again

I guess I'll do my credit grinding on ps4 pro

(It installed the game and let it do its thing to retrieve my save and everything. I assume the car is the same)

Edit: Sadly I'm not any faster in race C on ps4 pro However the field is cleaner, less clumsy, and somehow I get 5 green bars on ps4 pro, while only ever getting 3 yellow bars like everyone else on ps5. Different group of people, different server, less lag. It looks the same, except lap one is a bit choppy from the back.

Edit: I went back to ps5 after doing a 3:14 lap on ps4 pro. Then did 3:17 on ps5. Whatever I picked up on the pro rubbed off, now I'm also faster on ps5 Btw, races on ps4 pro keep crashing, or rather not starting, leaving me in auto-drive for 10 laps... Twice in 5 races.

 

[JDMKING13]

Nah, I eyeball my throttle telemetry, and the throttle is more linear now like in other sims (sims I have no issue in). I mean, I can drive RWD road cars within their limit on GT7, it's just not that enjoyable. It feels too precarious. Too hard to catch it, once the rear slips you might as well spin the roulette wheel to see if you'll save it - in other sims it doesn't feel that way at all.

It's a lot better with TCS on 2/3 though - but that's more of a band aid than a solution.

I wouldn’t call it a band aid though… There are cars where I drive with no TCS and there’s car where you just have to use the TCS especially if it’s on stock tires high powered.. And I’m faster with the TCS because if I didn’t have it I wouldn’t be consistent. I actually find that to be a good thing In GTS if you were a good driver you never had to use TCS.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I drove the F8 Tributo for the Ferrari Challenge yesterday and it was very hard to drive with traction control turned off. It wasn't perfect and did feel quite intrusive but it was better than fighting the car out of every corner. Disgruntled, I decided to tune my F40 to 692PP, and wow did it put the Tributo to shame. Barely any wheelspin on corner exit and great handling thanks to better suspension, brakes and aero. This confirms to me that some cars need more rear grip.

 

[Dunderbolt]

You can find some neat videos, and Rusty Wallace was pushing pretty hard. Enough for his car to begin to slightly oversteer, with just a bit of countersteer to correct it.



If he was living in GT7 land. The car would've snapped back and forth and Rusty would've had his race end right then and there

 

[JDMKING13]

I drove the F8 Tributo for the Ferrari Challenge yesterday and it was very hard to drive with traction control turned off. It wasn't perfect and did feel quite intrusive but it was better than fighting the car out of every corner. Disgruntled, I decided to tune my F40 to 692PP, and wow did it put the Tributo to shame. Barely any wheelspin on corner exit and great handling thanks to better suspension, brakes and aero. This confirms to me that some cars need more rear grip.

That car has 700+ hp don’t you think it’s going to be handful to handle with no TCS or ASM?

 

[ScottPuss20]

That car has 700+ hp don’t you think it’s going to be handful to handle with no TCS or ASM?

I just find it interesting that a 30 year old car can out-perform something from today without any assists...

 

[JDMKING13]

I just find it interesting that a 30 year old car can out-perform something from today without any assists...

You forgot “tuned car” and I’m not shocked if a tuned F40 beat a stock F8 what tires you have on your F40, did you run the F40 with no ABS as well? I’m getting both cars tomorrow it will be cool to see how they perform.

 

[extreme car]

this is a video of me doing the porsche cup at nurburgring with all the power bolt-ons, intermidiate tyre, LSD (30,40,10 If I remember correctly), racing suspesion, ceramic racing brake, and racing brake pad for the 997 GT3. this race almost broke me, the constant snap oversteer on tiny bump really frustrate me, I had to drive the porsche at around 70% pace just to survive this race.

 

[s0cks]

I wouldn’t call it a band aid though… There are cars where I drive with no TCS and there’s car where you just have to use the TCS especially if it’s on stock tires high powered.. And I’m faster with the TCS because if I didn’t have it I wouldn’t be consistent. I actually find that to be a good thing In GTS if you were a good driver you never had to use TCS.

It's a band aid in the fact that it is stopping the car from reaching it's limit so you don't get that unpredictable snap oversteer problem. Not saying TCS is bad.

 

[s0cks]

this is a video of me doing the porsche cup at nurburgring with all the power bolt-ons, intermidiate tyre, LSD (30,40,10 If I remember correctly), racing suspesion, ceramic racing brake, and racing brake pad for the 997 GT3. this race almost broke me, the constant snap oversteer on tiny bump really frustrate me, I had to drive the porsche at around 70% pace just to survive this race.

Ha, yes. I used the same car fully tricked out. Stiffened the springs, gave it loads of downforce. More negative camber. RH tyres. It was so touch and go the whole race.

 

[ScottPuss20]

You forgot “tuned car” and I’m not shocked if a tuned F40 beat a stock F8 what tires you have on your F40, did you run the F40 with no ABS as well? I’m getting both cars tomorrow it will be cool to see how they perform.

The F8 Tributo has the same PP as my tuned F40 so I'd expect them to be very close in terms of performance. They aren't though and that's the thing that confuses me.

 

[kilesa4568]

I wouldn’t call it a band aid though… There are cars where I drive with no TCS and there’s car where you just have to use the TCS especially if it’s on stock tires high powered.. And I’m faster with the TCS because if I didn’t have it I wouldn’t be consistent. I actually find that to be a good thing In GTS if you were a good driver you never had to use TCS.

It does look better this time around but using it doesn't fix the need for it's use.

On the throttle being different, it feels much better to use and a lot easier to be smooth with it. The brakes took me longer to get used to.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I don’t know man, some people just might not be catching on to the physics… on my road cars I have been driving them pretty much stock besides tire upgrades to compete in the events… The 996 everyone says is terrible to drive in my respectful opinion just don’t know how to drive the car… again not as sharp as the 997 but compared to other early 2000 cars this thing is a monster and absolutely destroys turns… I have it on SS tires competing in this European championship, in stock form and it’s a monster… doesn’t have the power to compete against the M4 and the AMG 63s on the straights but makes it up in the turns.

Maybe they're not catching on to the physics, as you say, but try sabotaging your FFB by messing up the settings - you'll lose control of the difficult cars, together with all enjoyment.

csw 2.5, tried fanatec's recommend settings, will try changing wheel rotation from auto to 550 else as mentioned above, going to try that today but not holding my breath. tried lowering/raising both ffb settings in game, tried low ffb on wheel but high in game and vice versa, all feels the same.

Basically I'd like to get to a point where I can drift or slide through a turn in a rwd car to alleviate the boring grind of these annoying catchup races against the AI.

Fanatec's recommended settings seem to always be a bit on the conservative side, so that people don't harm themselves. I don't see a problem with this, but try reading up on what the different settings do and lower the filtering/dampening while keeping the forces at 100%. I can simulate a "belt" with my DD, which still works fine but makes it just a little bit more difficult to feel things and it's also just slightly sluggish in comparison. When a car snaps, a DD with no dampening snaps as well - not sure a belt wheel can do that. I wouldn't be surprised if even a G29 communicates snaps quicker since there's no belt dampening.

I can feel everything up to the limit on a belt drive but once the car let's go, it can't keep up with the pace of the snap.

The only good thing going for the snap oversteer is i know it's there and ready for it but I've got trust issues knowing it's there. It's hard to enjoy your driving when you don't trust the machinery. Or in this case, physics.

Yep, trust issues surely lower enjoyment. Have you tried turning the wheel just a little bit less, so you're not on the limit of tyre traction when you start applying more throttle? That way you'll feel a difference when you reach that limit while applying throttle. If you pass it, you start sliding too much. If you've turned your wheel like 15 degrees beyond that limit and then start applying throttle, when it breaks traction you'll definitiely spin violently.

--

Then there are some general things, which may help if you're not doing it already. Sit closely to your wheel so that you can turn it as quickly as possible from side to side. Catching slides in GT7 requires quicker and snappier movements compared to GTS, from my experience.
Also, find the in-game max torque (1-5) that's correct for you; strong enough that you can feel what's happening but weak enough that you can twist the wheel quickly.

 

[nfsp2kTW]

I'm a drift player and the physics model of the GT7 is no big problem compared to the GTS,
The only difference is that the GT7's wheels are more slippery, the steering angle of the front wheels seems to be smaller,
Drifting without modifying the "steering angle adapter" is more challenging and the fault tolerance rate is lower,
Need more precise and delicate throttle control, smaller drift angle, more pulling on the steering wheel to correct the body,
But the feedback from the steering wheel feels quite good, I think the problem is the lack of steering angle of the front wheels,
The rudder angle of the front wheel without modifying the steering angle adapter is pitifully small. It would be great if players could adjust the steering angle of the front wheel.

Someone will mention that the "steering angle adapter" can be retrofitted, yes, but but... the feedback dynamics of the steering wheel have changed,
Maybe it's easier to experience the fun of drifting, but it's like soda without bubbles, not cold beer...
The taste is right but not perfect.

Still have to use the "steering angle adapter" in the lobby, after all, you can't be "the target of public criticism" XD


GT7 Drift Steering Angle Adapter - OFF


GT7 Drift Steering Angle Adapter - ON

 

[AlexWilmot]

this is a video of me doing the porsche cup at nurburgring with all the power bolt-ons, intermidiate tyre, LSD (30,40,10 If I remember correctly), racing suspesion, ceramic racing brake, and racing brake pad for the 997 GT3. this race almost broke me, the constant snap oversteer on tiny bump really frustrate me, I had to drive the porsche at around 70% pace just to survive this race.

Just something I noticed in your video that most of the time you loose it with 0 throttle applied and most of the saves have some throttle applied, not sure if there's an over emphasis on Oversteer throttle control with GT7 when on the limit but I guess that's why you say you survived at 70% because you don't get to the limit, it is strange this new approach to physics

 

[GTboyz]

Just read the patch notes and it said that they fixed the grip. I don't know how they fixed it hopefully it's good.

 

[Techlet]

"- Adjusted the model to reduce the grip lost when cars with high downforce are passing over a kerbstone while cornering at its limit."

Sounds like a very specific fix.

 

[Grandi]

this is a video of me doing the porsche cup at nurburgring with all the power bolt-ons, intermidiate tyre, LSD (30,40,10 If I remember correctly), racing suspesion, ceramic racing brake, and racing brake pad for the 997 GT3. this race almost broke me, the constant snap oversteer on tiny bump really frustrate me, I had to drive the porsche at around 70% pace just to survive this race.

For the Porsche cup I set up a 996 with SS and the entry (decel) diff much higher. Car was absolutely planted on exits but there was admittedly "work" (although manageable) on entries. To me the 10 decel seems rather precarious? Diff settings seem to have a huge impact in general.

From someone without experience from RRs on track IRL, a question to those that do (in e.g. 996s / 997s): is it a commonplace technique for you to routinely apply some throttle during turn-in for stability? This is something that's quite essential not only here but in other sims with rear-weighted cars (e.g. the iRacing Spec Racer & Skippy; haven't properly driven the Porsche Cup car there).

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Doesn't seem to be "broken when over the limit":

 

[Lord Protector]

Just read the patch notes and it said that they fixed the grip. I don't know how they fixed it hopefully it's good.

It seems to be a specific fix for the Sarthe circuit experience, but I’m updating now to check.

 

[GTboyz]

It seems to be a specific fix for the Sarthe circuit experience, but I’m updating now to check.

Okay, keep us posted!

 

[extreme car]

GT7 Drift Steering Angle Adapter - OFF


GT7 Drift Steering Angle Adapter - ON

Damn, I'm impressed how you managed to pull of this drifts, the shallow angle didn't bother me because it's a road car so I don't expect it to have a D1 spec car drift angle. I noticed at around 3.30 and 3.50 the car almost stop/spin were you trying to be more aggresive and overcooked it or the rear of the car unexpectedly lost grip?

Doesn't seem to be "broken when over the limit":

That's because he has steering angle kit on. that's like putting the drift tab on GT Sport the wheel go lock to lock faster than standard setup.

 

[Lord Protector]

I tried some cars I know well at tracks I know well and I can’t feel any difference to be honest. There’s one exception though, I took my Toyota TS050 at Sarthe and I couldn’t replicate the same crazy oversteer thing that’s in the Sarthe circuit experience. I can’t be 100% sure tho, as circuit experience don’t work offline.

 

[DPereira_2909]

Because if physics accuracy is the main draw for you in a racing sim, then areas that are very inaccurate are going to reduce the fun for you.

If a title is 100% pure arcade then I can have plenty of fun even with inaccurate physics.

It's also bloody frustrating when a title, GT7 in this case, improves in one area (below the limit physics accuracy) and then screws up massively in another (over the limit physics accuracy).

Yeah but we have people here saying they'll go back to GT Sport, which has way worse physics so I doubt that's really the reason

 

[Td04]

Yeah but we have people here saying they'll go back to GT Sport, which has way worse physics so I doubt that's really the reason

I am really confused about it. Gts physics was a huge step back from gt6...
Gt7 physics is really good, except oversteer flaws. This thread is quite toxic... Physics isn't just about how react a car on oversteer (agree that sucks a Lil on gt7). There are many things that gt7 do really good, and it is really stupid keep talking only about "snap oversteer".

 

[JDMKING13]

I am really confused about it. Gts physics was a huge step back from gt6...
Gt7 physics is really good, except oversteer flaws. This thread is quite toxic... Physics isn't just about how react a car on oversteer (agree that sucks a Lil on gt7). There are many things that gt7 do really good, and it is really stupid keep talking only about "snap oversteer".

No it’s the once you go beyond the limit talk that kills me.. like what?!?!?! I have got the car out of wack plenty times and caught it.. and some times I don’t but to master this beyond the limit handling factor I don’t really understand why this is the main thing.