Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[MarrGuitar]

This relates to when iRacing had the same fundamental issue regarding over the limit behaviour being absurdly hard to catch, just to note the video creator is a professional racing driver and race school owner, but if it's not enough I can link to hoard of racing drivers swearing left right and centre about iRacing behaving like this and just how inaccurate it is.

This guy’s video is spot on. GT7 does have exactly the same issue.

He makes loads of great points in this video - and he really knows what he’s talking about - but I want to point out two of them:

He says that if you want to go as fast as possible but you are driving in such a way that completely avoids oversteering - then you are under-driving the car. You aren’t taking advantage of the limits to achieve faster lap times because you’re going much slower to avoid going into an unrecoverable spin, which happens far too easily on GT7.

His other point was that if you have to relearn how to drive in order to go fast in the game then it’s not good simulation. That’s why these comments don’t hold up for me: I’ve seen this as a solution quite a few times in this thread: “Just drive the car more gently so that you don’t spin out”. If the physics were right, we wouldn’t have to drive so cautiously. We should be able to push the limits, and deal with the oversteer accordingly. Not just spin out uncontrollably no matter what the tuning set up seems to be.

 

[unfairlane]

While the severs are still down I took a Alpine 110 for a 3-lap around the ring. It was driveable!
Had several rear-slips but no crazy spins.

Another test, in a Mazda MX5 around Interlagos this time. The FR-car acted like normal, controllable witout any epilleptic scenes

 

[Scaff]

This guy’s video is spot on. GT7 does have exactly the same issue.

He makes loads of great points in this video - and he really knows what he’s talking about - but I want to point out two of them:

He says that if you want to go as fast as possible but you are driving in such a way that completely avoids oversteering - then you are under-driving the car. You aren’t taking advantage of the limits to achieve faster lap times because you’re going much slower to avoid going into an unrecoverable spin, which happens far too easily on GT7.

His other point was that if you have to relearn how to drive in order to go fast in the game then it’s not good simulation. That’s why these comments don’t hold up for me: I’ve seen this as a solution quite a few times in this thread: “Just drive the car more gently so that you don’t spin out”. If the physics were right, we wouldn’t have to drive so cautiously. We should be able to push the limits, and deal with the oversteer accordingly. Not just spin out uncontrollably no matter what the tuning set up seems to be.

Yep, it should be a risk vs reward situation that is fair, just as it is in reality.

I know and accept that we are never going to get a 100% match with reality, but being in the same ballpark would be nice.

 

[Hobson]

This guy’s video is spot on. GT7 does have exactly the same issue.

He makes loads of great points in this video - and he really knows what he’s talking about - but I want to point out two of them:

He says that if you want to go as fast as possible but you are driving in such a way that completely avoids oversteering - then you are under-driving the car. You aren’t taking advantage of the limits to achieve faster lap times because you’re going much slower to avoid going into an unrecoverable spin, which happens far too easily on GT7.

His other point was that if you have to relearn how to drive in order to go fast in the game then it’s not good simulation. That’s why these comments don’t hold up for me: I’ve seen this as a solution quite a few times in this thread: “Just drive the car more gently so that you don’t spin out”. If the physics were right, we wouldn’t have to drive so cautiously. We should be able to push the limits, and deal with the oversteer accordingly. Not just spin out uncontrollably no matter what the tuning set up seems to be.

For the most part, I think that's what GTSport nailed in the essence of driving fast, physics might not have been the greatest but driving fast was always down to "I'ma send this 200%" while dealing with oversteer, and learn fine car control VS GT7 where it's drive below the limit or get slapped 😂😂

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I don't know whether it's more realistic, but it sure is a lot more difficult and imo less fun and less accessible than racing in GT Sport. GT Sport was very accessible, my ageing twitchy fingers could do very well there with most cars. The GR.3 Huracan could be a pain to drive but that was an exception.

So far in GT7 I've only managed to drive the Lexus and Viper SRT, that is keep them under control at speed. I tried the Citroen Race Car last night and it's completely different from GTS. I can't see, feel or hear when I'm pushing too much and fail to correct any slide every time. Is the stock set up so bad, am I just terrible, is it the controller?

Here's a race in the Citroen, edited for all the trouble spots. Enjoy my misery :/ (That's on ps4 pro btw)


I get that a lot of people on here enjoy the challenge and welcome the move towards more sim like experience. However I don't find the higher difficulty making the game more fun. Quite the opposite, and fear this change towards more sim handling, almost requiring a wheel to keep certain cars under control, will drive GT more into the niche realm of racers like all the other sim racers.

GT has always put accessibility at the front, best sim lite experience you could get on a controller while still enjoying the strategies in pitting, managing tires and fuel use. Now I'm feel I'm competing with the car far more than with the other players. The car has become the opponent and there just happen to be other people struggling with their cars on the track. It's not a race anymore, it's survival.

It might get better over time, or GT7 might lose a lot of players. It doesn't help the game is very stingy with credits so trying out different cars to find one that might suit me requires a ton of grinding. I guess I'll stick to the Lexus and Dodge for now. I also tried the Huracan, which I've seen people do well with. Maybe it's the setup, it's probably me, I can't keep the thing on the track. Another 600K wasted lol.

 

[kilesa4568]

Yep, trust issues surely lower enjoyment. Have you tried turning the wheel just a little bit less, so you're not on the limit of tyre traction when you start applying more throttle? That way you'll feel a difference when you reach that limit while applying throttle. If you pass it, you start sliding too much. If you've turned your wheel like 15 degrees beyond that limit and then start applying throttle, when it breaks traction you'll definitiely spin violently.

--

Then there are some general things, which may help if you're not doing it already. Sit closely to your wheel so that you can turn it as quickly as possible from side to side. Catching slides in GT7 requires quicker and snappier movements compared to GTS, from my experience.
Also, find the in-game max torque (1-5) that's correct for you; strong enough that you can feel what's happening but weak enough that you can twist the wheel quickly.

I managed to drive through most of the slides (burning 800 calories an hour) after a couple of days but it doesn't stop it feeling broken fractionally over the limit.

I wish I knew what to say without sounding big headed but I do know how to drive and I know what I'm feeling is wrong. I've even been vindicated by more talented drivers feeling the exact same thing.

Yeah but we have people here saying they'll go back to GT Sport, which has way worse physics so I doubt that's really the reason

Rear wheel drive road cars are a lot of fun in GTS and I've still got the race cars in GT7 to play with. It's not an either/or thing. Its the best of both worlds.

 

[Punisherofall]

Another test, in a Mazda MX5 around Interlagos this time. The FR-car acted like normal, controllable witout any epilleptic scenes

Tire model is vastly improved the cars are easily more controlllable on standard tires, the oversteer is very manageable now, feels perfect to me and I am loving just trying to beat lap times

 

[graesand]

Tire model is vastly improved the cars are easily more controlllable on standard tires, the oversteer is very manageable now, feels perfect to me and I am loving just trying to beat lap times

I cant even start the game right now. Update is downloaded and installed. Ps4.

 

[Td04]

This guy’s video is spot on. GT7 does have exactly the same issue.

He makes loads of great points in this video - and he really knows what he’s talking about - but I want to point out two of them:

He says that if you want to go as fast as possible but you are driving in such a way that completely avoids oversteering - then you are under-driving the car. You aren’t taking advantage of the limits to achieve faster lap times because you’re going much slower to avoid going into an unrecoverable spin, which happens far too easily on GT7.

His other point was that if you have to relearn how to drive in order to go fast in the game then it’s not good simulation. That’s why these comments don’t hold up for me: I’ve seen this as a solution quite a few times in this thread: “Just drive the car more gently so that you don’t spin out”. If the physics were right, we wouldn’t have to drive so cautiously. We should be able to push the limits, and deal with the oversteer accordingly. Not just spin out uncontrollably no matter what the tuning set up seems to be.

This guy’s video is spot on. GT7 does have exactly the same issue.

He makes loads of great points in this video - and he really knows what he’s talking about - but I want to point out two of them:

He says that if you want to go as fast as possible but you are driving in such a way that completely avoids oversteering - then you are under-driving the car. You aren’t taking advantage of the limits to achieve faster lap times because you’re going much slower to avoid going into an unrecoverable spin, which happens far too easily on GT7.

His other point was that if you have to relearn how to drive in order to go fast in the game then it’s not good simulation. That’s why these comments don’t hold up for me: I’ve seen this as a solution quite a few times in this thread: “Just drive the car more gently so that you don’t spin out”. If the physics were right, we wouldn’t have to drive so cautiously. We should be able to push the limits, and deal with the oversteer accordingly. Not just spin out uncontrollably no matter what the tuning set up seems to be.

I agree, but it is the same for Acc if Valentino Rossi, Le clerc and Pecco don't understand why they lost the rear of the car, don't take the good line for a corner and need live coaching from a virtual pilot used to the game.

 

[Punisherofall]

I cant even start the game right now. Update is downloaded and installed. Ps4.

I disconnected my internet connection ( turned off in ps5 options menu) and was able to time trial all the courses as the game boots right up. You can only go to the one location but you can play all courses you have unlocked

 

[driftnick13]

Doesn't seem to be "broken when over the limit":

Just because you can do it just mean it's realistic, drifting in GT7 is far from being realistic.

 

[unfairlane]

Another test, in a Mazda MX5 around Interlagos this time. The FR-car acted like normal, controllable witout any epilleptic scenes

Tire model is vastly improved the cars are easily more controlllable on standard tires, the oversteer is very manageable now, feels perfect to me and I am loving just trying to beat lap times

Will hold my breath until it`s back online & can be confirmed but the tiregrip-problem seems to be fixed

 

[Hobson]

Just because you can do it just mean it's realistic, drifting in GT7 is far from being realistic.

I'm so over the drifting physics that I just called it quits for right now, if I felt like speed drifting and watching my rear end give up on me mid drift I'd play NFS.
Trying to drift on controller vs wheel is a joke right now in terms of difficulty, and holding 90 degrees/reverse entries is h a r d. I feel like controller users were just left in the dust honestly.

And I'm on CH for reference, old habits die hard

 

[Shiodome]

Well there's no sense arguing here anymore about physics. Unless you can provide credentials of being an F1 driver who's had at least 5 podiums in the last season, no one will accept your feedback that the physics kinda suck for FR cars.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I hope it just because it’s offline or something to do with different conditions but hot lapping the r8 I’ve been using for race c this week at Daytona feels very different. Awful understeer kicking in. Reminds me of FF cars in sport. Also feels like they’ve upped the understeer FFB so it’s all rattly and horrible like sport was and feeling brake lockups a lot more it seems. I don’t know, maybe because I’m looking for stuff that isn’t there or placebo or whatever. Feels different to me.

 

[wheelhp]

Well there's no sense arguing here anymore about physics. Unless you can provide credentials of being an F1 driver who's had at least 5 podiums in the last season, no one will accept your feedback that the physics kinda suck for FR cars.

Yeah there's so many good comments throughout this thread that use logic and support their experiences with evidence. All of it just goes right over the heads of a vocal minority however... just flies over their heads like a Boeing 747. If I could Count the 747s that flew over their head, I'd have enough money to make an update to GT7

 

[rtsbasic]

I hope it just because it’s offline or something to do with different conditions but hot lapping the r8 I’ve been using for race c this week at Daytona feels very different. Awful understeer kicking in. Reminds me of FF cars in sport. Also feels like they’ve upped the understeer FFB so it’s all rattly and horrible like sport was and feeling brake lockups a lot more it seems. I don’t know, maybe because I’m looking for stuff that isn’t there or placebo or whatever. Feels different to me.

From my limited time trial testing with Miata, 07 m3 and SR3 while in offline mode it feels the same as pre patch. Once you select a time trial you can then change to any of your garage cars.

Time to dust off rFactor 2 for the evening I think. Something a little different

 

[NikNakTobasco]

From my limited time trial testing with Miata, 07 m3 and SR3 while in offline mode it feels the same as pre patch. Once you select a time trial you can then change to any of your garage cars.

Time to dust off rFactor 2 for the evening I think. Something a little different

Hopefully just me being paranoid then

 

[Granadier]

Tire model was updated?

His other point was that if you have to relearn how to drive in order to go fast in the game then it’s not good simulation.

Preach.

 

[unfairlane]

It is definetly improved, was able to powerslide a stock modern Mustang around Daytona Speedway roadcourse now, this has been way out of reach on controllers earlier. But the physics still bites a bit harder than IRL if pushed. Seems to be acceptable though

 

[JDMKING13]

It is definetly improved, was able to powerslide a stock modern Mustang around Daytona Speedway roadcourse now, this has been way out of reach on controllers earlier. But the physics still bites a bit harder than IRL if pushed. Seems to be acceptable though

I’m doing TT at trial mountain with the mustang and I’m like this feels like it has more grip. You can still spin out as you said but I had to really floor it.

 

[s0cks]

Why do the patch notes not mention anything then? All there is this:

9. Physics Simulation Model
　- Adjusted the model to reduce the grip lost when cars with high downforce are passing over a kerbstone while cornering at its limit.

Nevertheless, I'm intrigued to give it a go this evening.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I’m doing TT at trial mountain with the mustang and I’m like this feels like it has more grip. You can still spin out as you said but I had to really floor it.

The track temperature makes a huge difference. Doing a 24h race (in 3 hours) on N24 had very different feel at night and in the morning, compared to late afternoon. The track also looked shiny in the afternoon sun, while looking 'cold' in the morning. I was getting new tires every second lap so that was the same. However I had to adjust my braking distances and turning speed a lot, laps were a lot slower at night and in the morning with higher risk of breaking / spinning out.

What track temperature does the time trial use? It would be helpful if GT7 would give you some more info for the races. The wind speed is a nice touch yet outside and track temperature make a much bigger difference in handling.

 

[JDMKING13]

The track temperature makes a huge difference. Doing a 24h race (in 3 hours) on N24 had very different feel at night and in the morning, compared to late afternoon. The track also looked shiny in the afternoon sun, while looking 'cold' in the morning. I was getting new tires every second lap so that was the same. However I had to adjust my braking distances and turning speed a lot, laps were a lot slower at night and in the morning with higher risk of breaking / spinning out.

What track temperature does the time trial use? It would be helpful if GT7 would give you some more info for the races. The wind speed is a nice touch yet outside and track temperature make a much bigger difference in handling.

I have notice when doing the events and when it goes from day to night the car as you said handles different. It would be nice as you said to get a track temperature or better heat/cold diagram for the tires. My TT were in early morning I will switch time to midday to see if there’s a difference.

 

[Td04]

It is definetly improved, was able to powerslide a stock modern Mustang around Daytona Speedway roadcourse now, this has been way out of reach on controllers earlier. But the physics still bites a bit harder than IRL if pushed. Seems to be acceptable though

Even little improvements are welcome. Hope we don't have to wait many patches for nail the physics at 100 %

 

[rtsbasic]

The time trials I ran earlier today post-patch using the same time of day and car setup were within a tenth of the same laps I set yesterday after a few settling in laps. I only tested a small sample of cars but the conditions were identical..

 

[Scaff]

Even little improvements are welcome. Hope we don't have to wait many patches for nail the physics at 100 %

No title exists that hit 100% for the physics, GT7 isn't going to do it either.

 

[Td04]

No title exists that hit 100% for the physics, GT7 isn't going to do it either.

Yes I don't mean 100% of realism. That is quite impossible and I don't think is the target which aim gt.
I mean 100% as without major flaws that can ruin the driving pleasure.

 

[Johnnn]

Why do the patch notes not mention anything then?

Physics is sensitive topic. Last change was hidden too. They can always say you just accommodated to it.

 

[Dunderbolt]

We are not talking about “at the limit” though people are talking about beyond and above the limit. Which I don’t know what car is usable once you go over the limit… I mean I watch motorsports all the time and it’s common to hear them say “he went over the limit” and that’s what caused what ever negative outcome..

I have caught the rear of my car and while I didn’t crash when it comes to times it’s not optimum to slide the car around. We all have pushed the car to see where the limits of the car is, even if you think you pushed the car to the limits there is another driver that can probably push it further. So it’s not so much of the car limits but your skill combined with the cars limit.

This is where I get confused if someone can’t drive the RX-8 stating it slips everywhere, they are spinning out, it’s terrible to drive etc. Ok that’s respectable, but if I take the same car which I did at Tokyo and pretty much floored the throttle the whole race on stock tires, it’s automatically well the car doesn’t do well when it’s beyond its limit?
Again I have went beyond the limits and it’s a 50/50 with me if I go to crazy yea it’s probably 20/80. As a driver I’m cool with that when I mess up it’s usually my fault.

It sounds as if you misinterpreted intentionally or unintentionally pages upon pages of posts. When everyone was saying "at the limit" or "above the limit" it was In reference to the angles when the tires begin to slip, not "far beyond the limit of grip of the tires". Tire slip doesn't or nearly doesn't exist in-game and several people have said that already. This is the same issue with multiple videos illustrating what people were talking about as well that you just scratch your head at.

To clarify, once again:
Your car is planted firmly on the road.
You push the car slightly too hard.
The game decides you no longer have grip.
It snap oversteers you.

In real life: The vast majority of cars DON'T BEHAVE THIS WAY. Maximum grip has a slight amount of slip, even the GT7 manual SAYS this. If you push the car harder, you would lose that extra grip from slip

These graphs are somewhat simplified to the complexities of tire grip.

But in GT7, the tires don't feel as if they follow this trend. Instead, it's a straight shot downward into oversteer central if you even hit 1 degree of tire slip. This is why people are saying "You have grip until you don't" you're effectively on rails with no feed back (even wheel players reporting this as an issue, so this isn't a wholly gamepad issue)

Again, if multiple people can have their skills translate to a multitude of other sims, and GT7 is the oddball out here. This sounds like a GT7 problem.