Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[s0cks]

So testing post patch out seems better perhaps. Not sure as I've spent the last week racing other sims.

Personally it still feels like it let's go without much warning. And catching it is very hard. It feels like it's on ice until it catches grip again very violently. Unless you can predict exactly when it's going to catch grip it's likely you'll just be thrown in the opposite direction. Of course this depends on how much you're willing to get the rear out. With time its getting easier to learn from visual clues when its starting to lose grip and then you can get off the pedal sooner making it easier to catch.

That said, I was able to mostly drive with TCS off on both road and race cars without too much trouble. I just don't enjoy it that much because I'm never sure how much throttle I can give it. If you give it slightly too much it becomes deadly, so TCS is still preferable imo.

I would agree with Dan Suzuki here. Harder to drive than other sims, cars are looser, but nevertheless it's still an enjoyable drive for the most part.

As an example, in iRacing with the MX5 you can pretty much plant the throttle mid corner and not spin out. I don't recommend that in GT7 with the same car!

 

[Td04]

I am trying a stock gt86 right now. It is definitely improved this time. It is still weird when you lock your steering and floor throttle at low rpm. The car will spin immediately ,before it had the torque needed, but overall the grip is improved and the failure more progressive than before. I am able to catch some snap and these now are more progressive .


Edit: even that broked car that was the 911 gt3 '09,now is much more less broken.
Personally I like a lot the physics on this game

 

[Tenacious D]

"Squirt soda"
How the hell do you drink that?

Maybe it's a midwest thing - and that's quite a word, seems like 75% of the US is midwest. But so far, everyone who I offered it to liked it a lot, and kept asking for it. I'll have to chase down some DC sometime. Maybe Brewski!

Anyhow, it seems GT7 is coming along, another acquired taste that some people sneer at. I hate to break for late brunch, that's how much I missed GT7, but it's almost 3pm and I'm starved.

Hopefully, Praiano and some of the other tuners will report on their experiments later today or tomorrow.

 

[Arveena]

As someone with plenty experience in racecars and fast cars in the real world some people here are completely out of touch.
GT7 physics are not perfect at all but calling GTS physics better is a bit much. Those physics were straight up garbage. You needed to overdrive every car to be fast you could cut grass literally every apex and exit. It was completely horrendous. People need to actually drive real cars in Dyno mode oder drift mode. Not the normal TC off or race modes. There is still plenty of TC there. Some cars even have way to much grip with TC off in this game Driving GT3 without TC ist just silly they are not build to drive without TC and they should not even be faster without TC.
Those cars are mainly build to sell to rich old ducks who want an easy to drive racecar and are average at best drivers. Patrick Dempsey and Michael Fassbender for example can drive these cars fast and on the limit and they started driving racecars in their 50s.... All because of TC. They all have TC and they are way faster with it. ACC models that pretty accurate. GT7 physics on the right tyres are perfectly fine. A sport soft feels very much like a Michelin pilot sport or cup depending on a car. Problem is most cars come with sport hard. Which is not the case in Reallife. That leads to the car being a bit twitchy but not worse than any of my cars with winter tyres. My model 3 performance makes donuts the second I touch the throttle in reallife in Dynomode with a bit of steering angle and winter tyres or every tyre which is not a Michelin or Pirelli sport tyre/semi slick .



Physics are fine if you want a less twitchy car get sport soft or better tyres or turn on TC like you would 1000000% in reallife

 

[Dunderbolt]

Maybe it's a midwest thing - and that's quite a word, seems like 75% of the US is midwest. But so far, everyone who I offered it to liked it a lot, and kept asking for it. I'll have to chase down some DC sometime. Maybe Brewski!

Anyhow, it seems GT7 is coming along, another acquired taste that some people sneer at. I hate to break for late brunch, that's how much I missed GT7, but it's almost 3pm and I'm starved.

Hopefully, Praiano and some of the other tuners will report on their experiments later today or tomorrow.

If you get Double Cola, where I'm at they only offer glass bottles, but in some places offer cans but not in my state, so sadly you can't snatch a 12 pack if you really like'em.

Anyway, GT7 is coming along in the physics department, if they can just get that LAST. BIT. when the tires begin to slip right. I'd fall dead happy. Eh....
Well, when they fix the butchered economy as well.

 

[B80]

Agree 100% and the F82 M4 drives almost exactly like my f80 M3 in real life. Also my F80 is a competition so it has different dampers, springs and tire sizes than the base F80s. Minor differences but overall a blast to drive with oversteer on command but controllable In the game and in real life!

Good man... same car as me irl! M3 f80 cp... or do you mean you have Cs?

F80 cp also has slightly higher bhp too, around 444 compared to around 425.

Great cars though aren't they. Driven most days since I bought it a year ago.

 

[llNovall]

I gave the 991 Porsche, setup in my Gt3 Cup style tune on Race hards at Lago Maggiorre. Feels exactly the same, and twitchy in the same spots. Still needs work. I too thought it had gotten better until I jumped back on this car and track combo...and still the same.

 

[B80]

As someone with plenty experience in racecars and fast cars in the real world some people here are completely out of touch.
GT7 physics are not perfect at all but calling GTS physics better is a bit much. Those physics were straight up garbage. You needed to overdrive every car to be fast you could cut grass literally every apex and exit. It was completely horrendous. People need to actually drive real cars in Dyno mode oder drift mode. Not the normal TC off or race modes. There is still plenty of TC there. Some cars even have way to much grip with TC off in this game Driving GT3 without TC ist just silly they are not build to drive without TC and they should not even be faster without TC.
Those cars are mainly build to sell to rich old ducks who want an easy to drive racecar and are average at best drivers. Patrick Dempsey and Michael Fassbender for example can drive these cars fast and on the limit and they started driving racecars in their 50s.... All because of TC. They all have TC and they are way faster with it. ACC models that pretty accurate. GT7 physics on the right tyres are perfectly fine. A sport soft feels very much like a Michelin pilot sport or cup depending on a car. Problem is most cars come with sport hard. Which is not the case in Reallife. That leads to the car being a bit twitchy but not worse than any of my cars with winter tyres. My model 3 performance makes donuts the second I touch the throttle in reallife in Dynomode with a bit of steering angle and winter tyres or every tyre which is not a Michelin or Pirelli sport tyre/semi slick .



Physics are fine if you want a less twitchy car get sport soft or better tyres or turn on TC like you would 1000000% in reallife

Yeah I'm running with 4 3month old pilot sport 4s's on my m3 f80. Back can snap out if I push peddle hard in 3rd, butnot flooring it with TCS and stability mgmt on, which does correct it, but still..

 

[Punisherofall]

Good man... same car as me irl! M3 f80 cp... or do you mean you have Cs?

F80 cp also has slightly higher bhp too, around 444 compared to around 425.

Great cars though aren't they. Driven most days since I bought it a year ago.

Yeah just a competition. I can’t rationalize a cs missing some creature comforts for $25000 more.

It’s an amazing vehicle for sure, you can barely see my sons head in the front shot. He loves dads “4 door racecar”. Seriously the best vehicle I have ever owned but it’s not my daily, I have a company car for that

 

[wheelhp]

it still feels like it let's go without much warning. And catching it is very hard. It feels like it's on ice until it catches grip again very violently. Unless you can predict exactly when it's going to catch grip it's likely you'll just be thrown in the opposite direction.

I like to imagine PD is so advanced in their mathematics that they somehow implemented chassis flex into their tyre model.... lol

 

[B80]

Yeah just a competition. I can’t rationalize a cs missing some creature comforts for $25000 more.

It’s an amazing vehicle for sure, you can barely see my sons head in the front shot. He loves dads “4 door racecar”. Seriously the best vehicle I have ever owned but it’s not my daily, I have a company car for that

Very nice! Yes love mine too. Some M3 purists sneer a bit about it being first twin turbo charged m3, but torque is phenemenol, its just there all the time.

10 min trip to shops frequently end up with 1 or 2 hour detours!

 

[Keef]

I may be wrong but it seems like the brake bias is reversed. On both my FC and R32 today I’ve noticed increasing rear bias actually stabilized the car on the limit, causing understeer. Moving the bias forward causes rotation. That doesn’t make sense because the front tires are already doing more work so how could more braking power generate that much more traction. It’s definitely acting the opposite of GTS on these cars.

 

[wheelhp]

I may be wrong but it seems like the brake bias is reversed. On both my FC and R32 today I’ve noticed increasing rear bias actually stabilized the car on the limit, causing understeer. Moving the bias forward causes rotation. That doesn’t make sense because the front tires are already doing more work so how could more braking power generate that much more traction. It’s definitely acting the opposite of GTS on these cars.

Ah the old GT Sport Brake bias exploit returns...

 

[Scaff]

I've just spent the last two hours in AMS2 with the Porsche 911 RSR and BMW 2002 Turbo, and I have to say, as much as GT7 has improved over GTS, those two in AMS2 highlight the gap that PD still have to fill in terms of both physics and FFB.

The BMW 2002 in particular, as its a car that you can't go full throttle on until your straight or as near as damn it, as the risk of the turbo coming on boost and throwing you into a tank slapper is significant. However, the tyre model and suspension feedback via the FFB is on another level, in particular, the feel of tyre flex is absurdly well communicated, and as such its easier to understand exactly what the car is doing, where the balance is, etc.

Anyone who has AMS2, give the following combination a go for a comparison.

BMW 2002 @ Brands Hatch
Real Weather set for 8/10/2019 @ 12 O'clock, you should have light cloud and a moist track surface.

 

[Dennismarinos]

Not true. Project cars 2 has this and it's all simulated in real time too, completely simulates water movement, even from the cars going just through them, real time dry line depending on where the car is actually going ( no fakery thing we usually see ).

Yeah ACC also has this as well and dry lines develop over time with real time calculations not pre baked .

 

[Dennismarinos]

I've just spent the last two hours in AMS2 with the Porsche 911 RSR and BMW 2002 Turbo, and I have to say, as much as GT7 has improved over GTS, those two in AMS2 highlight the gap that PD still have to fill in terms of both physics and FFB.

The BMW 2002 in particular, as its a car that you can't go full throttle on until your straight or as near as damn it, as the risk of the turbo coming on boost and throwing you into a tank slapper is significant. However, the tyre model and suspension feedback via the FFB is on another level, in particular, the feel of tyre flex is absurdly well communicated, and as such its easier to understand exactly what the car is doing, where the balance is, etc.

Anyone who has AMS2, give the following combination a go for a comparison.

BMW 2002 @ Brands Hatch
Real Weather set for 8/10/2019 @ 12 O'clock, you should have light cloud and a moist track surface.

Yeah but that is a Sim and GT7 is a arcadeish game, Gran Turismo doesn't even have a damage model, it's basically stuck in 1994 and they never evolved.
So it's a game made for a different audience pretending to be a sim, their target audience is teens playing on a controller. If it was like ACC it would be too hard for them to play and it would sell 1 copy.
Kaz doesn't really care about the level of sim, all he cares about is marketing and getting cash so he can go pretend to be from old money at pebble beach...

Why would someone that actually cared about simulation release a game with such playschool physics, it's not like they are broke, they could afford to poach the best in the business. He doesn't care it's all about making money. Which is fine, but let's not put him on a pedestal like everyone seems to do.

 

[Pfei]

Yeah ACC also has this as well and dry lines develop over time with real time calculations not pre baked .

I agree that the drying line being scripted is disappointing, but did anyone really expect something different? At least it's well implemented. The problem is that it is blatantly obvious that it is scripted because of the 50x time acceleration in the few Menu races that have rain. At Suzuka the field crossed the start finish line on a wet track, and the next lap there was already a dry line even though no car had passed since.

But even in the real world it's unusual to see anything but the ideal line drying up, so I'll give PD a pass on this one. I wasn't expecting much and they didn't deliver much, so it's even Steven for me. At least it works correctly unlike PC2 where everyone in the same room was seeing different weather conditions.

ACC is still the pinnacle for me and I wasn't expecting GT7 to challenge that. The Gr 4 and 3 cars feel good (obviously not near ACC level) and that's all I used in GTS. So for a guy like me who only uses Gran Turismo for the official online championships GT7 is a welcome improvement in spite of the unfinished, grindy buggy mess the game is in its present state.

 

[MarrGuitar]

Something that makes catching spins even harder in GT7 is the way TC works. It’s been mentioned quite a few times that it’s usually best to use some TC in GT7 to help stop the excessive oversteer. GT3 cars of course are designed to be used with TC on in real life.

But in my experience, even TC1 tends to cut too much throttle and can sometimes throw the car even further out of balance because it essentially causes lift-off oversteer. It can also stop you from controlling a slide with a bit of throttle application because it takes too much away. It’s not like on ACC where TC is modelled extremely well and you can dial it in to that sweet spot where it helps you be fast without being invasive.

Perhaps I just need to get used to the way TC cuts throttle in GT7. From racing on ACC, my instinct is to use a bit of throttle and counter steer as necessary to control the slip. If I try this on GT7, my throttle inputs are blocked by TC, and by the time the car has regained traction the counter steering turns into an over correction that sends me off.

So for me there’s 2 things I don’t get on with in GT7’s physics: the tyres snapping too suddenly and the traction control being too invasive. If I don’t use TCS at all then the car is vulnerable to spinning too easily and with little warning

 

[Dennismarinos]

I agree that the drying line being scripted is disappointing, but did anyone really expect something different? At least it's well implemented. The problem is that it is blatantly obvious that it is scripted because of the 50x time acceleration in the few Menu races that have rain. At Suzuka the field crossed the start finish line on a wet track, and the next lap there was already a dry line even though no car had passed since.

But even in the real world it's unusual to see anything but the ideal line drying up, so I'll give PD a pass on this one. I wasn't expecting much and they didn't deliver much, so it's even Steven for me. At least it works correctly unlike PC2 where everyone in the same room was seeing different weather conditions.

ACC is still the pinnacle for me and I wasn't expecting GT7 to challenge that. The Gr 4 and 3 cars feel good (obviously not near ACC level) and that's all I used in GTS. So for a guy like me who only uses Gran Turismo for the official online championships GT7 is a welcome improvement in spite of the unfinished, grindy buggy mess the game is in its present state.

Yeah it's just disappointing that they didn't really do anything to improve the driving experience except adding some scripted weather. The new physics updates since gt sport are very minimal and it still feels very arcade. Which is fine as well, but they are just getting smoked by the competition like Kunos and everyone else on all fronts. Such a wasted opportunity with their budget and the might of Sony behind them.

 

[Jo3f1sh]

I think one of the main issues I'm having is the sheer lack of steering input required to turn the cars. Even at 1080 degrees set on my wheel, I barely have to move my wheel going through Blanchimont or even Eau Rouge. Through La Source, I'm turning maybe 80-90 degrees. It's also the reason I can feel the car dancing when driving straight. The linearity is all wrong, or there just needs to be less sensitivity near on center.

 

[Pfei]

I think one of the main issues I'm having is the sheer lack of steering input required to turn the cars. Even at 1080 degrees set on my wheel, I barely have to move my wheel going through Blanchimont or even Eau Rouge. Through La Source, I'm turning maybe 80-90 degrees. It's also the reason I can feel the car dancing when driving straight. The linearity is all wrong, or there just needs to be less sensitivity near on center.

That sounds like a wheel misconfiguration, either in your hardware or the in-game settings. BTW what car were you using? Because I felt something similar on the High Speed Ring circuit experience with the Zonda. Maybe some of the cars' soft locks are messed up?

 

[graesand]

A sport soft feels very much like a Michelin pilot sport or cup depending on a car. Problem is most cars come with sport hard. Which is not the case in Reallife. That leads to the car being a bit twitchy but not worse than any of my cars with winter tyres. My model 3 performance makes donuts the second I touch the throttle in reallife in Dynomode with a bit of steering angle and winter tyres or every tyre which is not a Michelin or Pirelli sport tyre/semi slick .



Physics are fine if you want a less twitchy car get sport soft or better tyres or turn on TC like you would 1000000% in reallife

Ahem. Your model 3 has like 400nm of torque instantly. A miata has not. A miata NA certainly has no TC nor ABS. Doesnt come with fancy tires. Yet it be twitching like hell in game.

My modest experience driving really crap cars with crap tires is the opposite of twitchy, to hold a slide.

In the game its easier to handle lets say a gr3 car or something with a stiff chassis and grippy tires over the limit then a miata on CS.

Oh well i guess its all about driving style too... Those who enjoy having egg under foot and those who want to push the car through the corners. I have no problem doing the latter in a kart irl yet it doesnt snap like GT lol. Just makes it slower when you over do it. All i really can acheive in GT7 so far that come close to holding a slide is stabbing at the throttle and then letting off and steering it right, making those intervals tighter but still cant call that a drift/powerslide.

Nevertheless i just spent another 8hrs with this game, of which 4 was with a former tire tester. He didnt like the dynamics at all on fr cars. Was funny to see him (he drives circles around us normally) spin out almost every time on the final left hand sweeper at deep forest in a stock c63. He said something along the lines of "feels like driving on flat tires", "pressure must be wrong".

Rx8 is still a pain to slide, on any tyre.

 

[HarVee]

Rx8 is still a pain to slide, on any tyre.

Speaking of the RX8, I just drove the RX8 in the game for the first time and to me it felt like one of the best handling cars I have driven so far. Very planted. Though I can see why this would a negative for drifting.

 

[graesand]

Speaking of the RX8, I just drove the RX8 in the game for the first time and to me it felt like one of the best handling cars I have driven so far. Very planted. Though I can see why this would a negative for drifting.

Its never been about how cars handle up to the limit. Its what they do after you pass that and how they act.

Im really into rally games (and im no driving god) but it seems to me gt still has alot of work to do. Sliding a car in gt is more binary than progressive.

 

[StogyBear]

Tire physics feel much much better. Still not as progressive as IRL, especially sport softs, but at least it’s controllable. A little more of a progressive slip and it’ll be perfect.

Side note, anyone else’s GT DD vibrate in a strange and unrealistic way when you understeer?

 

[FA_Hayes]

I think one of the main issues I'm having is the sheer lack of steering input required to turn the cars. Even at 1080 degrees set on my wheel, I barely have to move my wheel going through Blanchimont or even Eau Rouge. Through La Source, I'm turning maybe 80-90 degrees. It's also the reason I can feel the car dancing when driving straight. The linearity is all wrong, or there just needs to be less sensitivity near on center.

Try going into cockpit view. Turn the wheel 180 degrees and adjust steering angle to match.

I've found 10 to 20 degree discrepancies with my DD1. Especially GR3 cars. Some GR4 cars are 10 degrees off. I'm not sure if it's a hardware issue or game issue. Adjusting to 1080 might not have the effect you think depending how the game communicates with the wheel.

With that said steering angle changes are much more sensitive while being closer to ACC and even real life when your traveling that fast and turn the wheel.

You can also try a real world technique of bumping or nudging the wheel through corners. This is typically done to keep the tires at the limit.

 

[CnPx]

Personally I think the next gran turismo title shouldn't exist. I think PD should just quit making games. After the hot mess GT7 is I am considering selling my Playstation as the platform is running out of things that interest me. Gaming has turned to crap. Every successful game just gets ruined. I don't enjoy online competitive shooters. I don't really enjoy gaming anymore. Only single player story games are fun cos no micro-transactions but spending £50 for a game your gonna complete in a week just isn't worth it.
I wanted Gran Turismo to be a game where I could play it as my main game and then buy the odd game here and there but clearly that didn't work out because I don't like the game. I have tried to enjoy it since the new update and I just look at the race rewards and it just kills my motivation to even bother. I am not gonna play cat and mouse with some corporate a holes. We find a way to earn credits and then they nerf it. What's the point? Why have we gotta find exploits just to enjoy the game? The best answer to this is to not play the game. If you start buying credits you will spend them and then be straight back to where you were before.
I am applying for a refund soon as the chat comes online. I won't get it but its more to let them know that the game is not acceptable.

 

[CBH]

Side note, anyone else’s GT DD vibrate in a strange and unrealistic way when you understeer?

No nice and smooth when you understeer, and you try my settings if you like.

 

[Hobson]

Personally I think the next gran turismo title shouldn't exist. I think PD should just quit making games. After the hot mess GT7 is I am considering selling my Playstation as the platform is running out of things that interest me. Gaming has turned to crap. Every successful game just gets ruined. I don't enjoy online competitive shooters. I don't really enjoy gaming anymore. Only single player story games are fun cos no micro-transactions but spending £50 for a game your gonna complete in a week just isn't worth it.
I wanted Gran Turismo to be a game where I could play it as my main game and then buy the odd game here and there but clearly that didn't work out because I don't like the game. I have tried to enjoy it since the new update and I just look at the race rewards and it just kills my motivation to even bother. I am not gonna play cat and mouse with some corporate a holes. We find a way to earn credits and then they nerf it. What's the point? Why have we gotta find exploits just to enjoy the game? The best answer to this is to not play the game. If you start buying credits you will spend them and then be straight back to where you were before.
I am applying for a refund soon as the chat comes online. I won't get it but its more to let them know that the game is not acceptable.

Can I buy your PS5? 😏

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Side note, anyone else’s GT DD vibrate in a strange and unrealistic way when you understeer?

Yep. Seems worse after the update but might just be imagining it. When brakes lock up also get it too. Thought it was normal But after seeing the comment above maybe it’s not. I find it quite helpful to know I’ve hit the limit of grip but it does seem a bit overdone.