Gran Turismo 7 Will Be More Like Classic GT Titles, Says Kazunori Yamauchi

[HarVee]

Apparently (and don't quote me), around 50% of GT Sport players have never done a Sport Mode race

Can't blame them. Online racing isn't the appeal to GT for me. When I think GT I don't think international eSports. I think of a quirky Japanese-influenced car collecting game.

 

[BigJimmy]

Can't blame them. Online racing isn't the appeal to GT for me. When I think GT I don't think international eSports. I think of a quirky Japanese-influenced car collecting game.

But hopefully lots of them have had fun in the online lobbies, where its a lot more relaxed than in sport mode.

 

[Samus]

Apparently (and don't quote me), around 50% of GT Sport players have never done a Sport Mode race

It's actually far higher, around 83%.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sport_play_ratio

Only 7% have done 11+ races.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It's intentional but you're just pinning the blame on numbers just to make a point for "quality over quantity". GT is intentionally made not as realistic as the hardcore sims. One of the GT's appeals to make more than 80 million sales is its accessibility. GT is significantly easier to get on for beginners, compared to hardcore sims like Assetto Corsa, but is realistic enough for players to make it a starting ground for the hardcore sims later.

And this is where although I see what you are trying to say I do not agree with your assessment of the state of why GT gameplay is so lacking in realism.
According to you then GT is made for beginners but as a player gains experience then GT fully expects to lose that class of players and for them to move on to a sim that offers much better realism as they get better.
Are you actually believing what you wrote there?

When it comes to being "easier" that is a reason there are drivers aids built into the games and this includes titles such as AC or ACC so if a beginning player utilizes those aids then even AC is very beginner friendly.
Another thing is that The AI on a game like ACC is much more infinitely more adjustable via a slider setting that AI's performance level on a percentage basis from very easy up to a 100% and the same goes on how aggressive that AI is on a slider as well as far as trying to defend or take a position with performance that can offer a single player challenge from the rank beginner all the way up to players that are pretty good except maybe one in the alien range.
The AI on ACC at full difficulty a good player can start say 3rd and actually lose positions to the AI and if you pass the AI they will actually aggressively try to take that position back on a high difficulty level.
GT Sport on the other hand even for lower middle of the pack players the single player game and AI offers no difficulty level other than a run from the back of the pack in a short enough race to make the challenge be a joke. But yet players of GT want the game to go back to more of a single player content game which actually offers no challenge in its races except to the stark beginner, this line of reasoning I have a hard time grasping.

The difference is that currently that GT sport is not capable of offering that higher level of player a decent single player challenge while current games like ACC can offer that higher level of challenge while at the same time has physics that are at the same time much more realistic. And yes ACC does offer single player challenges and custom race weekends and championship seasons and the difficulty level can be dialed in from very easy up to very hard on a difficulty level.

And honestly having played both games the UI is much easier on ACC to navigate and figure out what they are trying to do than the UI on GTS so in many ways ACC is easier for a beginner to navigate and get started plus they are not limited to the cars they can drive within the game because those cars are behind a locked wall for the beginner.

One thing I have seen for years is how Gran Turismo fans will make excuses for the games short comings and weaknesses and the decrease in the games realism and lack of innovation in things like the AI performance and even adjustability, the poor car class combinations and BOP in the classes along with falling further and further behind the competition in physics and driving realism and instead of demanding a better product they seem complacent to a game that has fallen so far behind the competition they are not even considered to be in the same class anymore.

As a player if this satisfies your expectations great, keep buying the product but then do not complain because it does not meet expectations for performance and or realism because you keep accepting the shortcomings by buying an inferior product. Guess maybe you are right Gran Turismo as a single player experience in its current state is really just for beginners only.

 

[Dave A]

Gran Turismo through its first early releases really had no competition for a realistic driving game on the market. In this day and time that is not the case as there are other titles which in many aspects really make GT look like more of an arcade game than a driving or racing experience sim.

One mistake I think they are doing is trying too cover too wide of a spectrum across too broad of a range of cars and/or racing classes and actually doing a poor job and not really getting any of them right.

As you notice most of the current top rated sims are more focusing on a much narrower scope of cars or racing classes and doing a better job of getting those details within those cars and classes right. You cannot expect the physics or tire model for a road car, a gt classed vehicle or a Formula type of vehicle to be the same or work in a realistic manner across all classes.

Maybe GT should narrow their focus to a smaller scope of vehicles at a time and really get those right first and then branch out to other car types and classes. With multiple titles already doing GT cars and Formula cars and even Nascar and most doing a very realistic excellent job maybe GT should focus on Touring car, mini style club racing classes using the road cars they like so well as the base to develop those classes and series.

If Gran Turismo ever wants to be considered in the conversation as a serious driving or racing sim (except for maybe here) rather than more of a console based arcade type of title they really need to focus on doing something driving wise at least as well if not better than other sim titles on the market.

Something else I have brought up before even if they start getting the driving and physics end top notch if they really want to be serious about being considered a top online e-sport racing title Sony needs to remove the ridiculous restrictions placed on the allowable sim gear to be used on the Playstation Console as many top online drivers are not going to be using or buying "special"associated with Sony gear to race on that platform.

Sony and Gran Turismo need to decide do they want to be an arcade classed game or be considered an actual serious driving sim moving forward.

I have been a Gran Turismo fan since the franchise first began but today there are just to many other titles that make GT to much like an arcade experience when you compare them side by side.

No, those other games already fill those niches. I don't want Gran Turismo to become a clone of something else. I want it to evolve as Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo has never been the most realistic driving simulation availalbe of it's time, never, it's always compromised for the sake of mass appeal.

The USP of Gran Turismo back when the first one was pitched was not to be the most realistic driving sim, but to drive your car in a game. And when the first Gran Turismo launched, it was unlike anything else in scale. Since then we have had Forza Motorsport as well, but there's still very little that relly covers the brief of Gran Turismo other than Forza. Sure there are other games where yo buy cars, tune them, race them in various competitions, games like Project Cars 3, but there aren't many that have a feel of owning your car and have quite the scope and potential to include car modesl that a lot of people will likely have owned in real life in them.

There's always an argument for quantity, but you need quality as well. The issues with GT Sport and to a lesser extent GT5 and 6 aren't that the physics are bad. They aren't the best, they certainly aren't in any way arcade game like (assuming arcade like = unrealistic), they are realistic, they just aren't the pinnacle of realism. GT7 needs to find some way to innovate without losing it's appeal, and it has huge appeal, this whole website is borne out of that, but it needs to stick to some of it's roots.

If I want a GT racing game, ACC has me covered, if I want a F1 game, guess what, I'm covered, if I want a WRC title, covered again etc. etc. I don't buy Gran Turismo titles for that niche experience. The physics will no doubt continue to improve yet continue to fall some way short of the most realistic sims around, I expect the same for future Forza Motorpsort titles, that's unlikely to change.

Also don't confuse realistic with difficult to drive, a real car is not made to be difficult to drive fast, but there are many supposed "sims" where I've struggled to keep a car in the straight line that I categroically know I can drive faster and harder than I tried in that said sim.

 

[TS050]

And this is where although I see what you are trying to say I do not agree with your assessment of the state of why GT gameplay is so lacking in realism.
According to you then GT is made for beginners but as a player gains experience then GT fully expects to lose that class of players and for them to move on to a sim that offers much better realism as they get better.
Are you actually believing what you wrote there?

When it comes to being "easier" that is a reason there are drivers aids built into the games and this includes titles such as AC or ACC so if a beginning player utilizes those aids then even AC is very beginner friendly.
Another thing is that The AI on a game like ACC is much more infinitely more adjustable via a slider setting that AI's performance level on a percentage basis from very easy up to a 100% and the same goes on how aggressive that AI is on a slider as well as far as trying to defend or take a position with performance that can offer a single player challenge from the rank beginner all the way up to players that are pretty good except maybe one in the alien range.
The AI on ACC at full difficulty a good player can start say 3rd and actually lose positions to the AI and if you pass the AI they will actually aggressively try to take that position back on a high difficulty level.
GT Sport on the other hand even for lower middle of the pack players the single player game and AI offers no difficulty level other than a run from the back of the pack in a short enough race to make the challenge be a joke. But yet players of GT want the game to go back to more of a single player content game which actually offers no challenge in its races except to the stark beginner, this line of reasoning I have a hard time grasping.

The difference is that currently that GT sport is not capable of offering that higher level of player a decent single player challenge while current games like ACC can offer that higher level of challenge while at the same time has physics that are at the same time much more realistic. And yes ACC does offer single player challenges and custom race weekends and championship seasons and the difficulty level can be dialed in from very easy up to very hard on a difficulty level.

And honestly having played both games the UI is much easier on ACC to navigate and figure out what they are trying to do than the UI on GTS so in many ways ACC is easier for a beginner to navigate and get started plus they are not limited to the cars they can drive within the game because those cars are behind a locked wall for the beginner.

One thing I have seen for years is how Gran Turismo fans will make excuses for the games short comings and weaknesses and the decrease in the games realism and lack of innovation in things like the AI performance and even adjustability, the poor car class combinations and BOP in the classes along with falling further and further behind the competition in physics and driving realism and instead of demanding a better product they seem complacent to a game that has fallen so far behind the competition they are not even considered to be in the same class anymore.

As a player if this satisfies your expectations great, keep buying the product but then do not complain because it does not meet expectations for performance and or realism because you keep accepting the shortcomings by buying an inferior product. Guess maybe you are right Gran Turismo as a single player experience in its current state is really just for beginners only.

TL;DR - "I want GT to be ACC"

 

[Samus]

I don't think he's saying that, he's just saying he wants GT to provide a challenge to more than beginners, like ACC (and other games) does. Having highly skilled AI as an option for players doesn't suddenly turn it into a hardcore racing sim.

The fact GT Sport asks every single player irrespective of experience to do "This is a steering wheel, this is an accelerator pedal, this is a brake pedal" driving school tests is absurd, and the difficulty doesn't exactly ramp up from there.

I've never been to a racing school but I'm pretty sure they don't treat everyone as if they've just laid eyes on a motor vehicle for the first time.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

TLR - "I want GT to be ACC"

No actually I want GT as a single player experience to offer me a degree of realism in its physics but yet with its AI offers me a challenge that rises above the level of only doing so for a very rank beginning player and that when designing its racing classes can actually offer a BOP level that makes any car in the class actually be competitive. GT in its current state totally fails in all of those categories.

And the reason I use the title ACC for the comparisons is not because I want GT to be ACC but rather that is a title just like GT I have spent enough time and hours playing to fully be able to in my opinion be fair in my assessment of their strong points and weak points in comparing what is good and what basically sucks between the titles.
The sad part is is as a decades long GT fan that I can literally find no advantage in GT compared to ACC with the exception of its varied models of cars and its livery customization shop.

Granted in honesty I do not own ACC on the console only the PC version so maybe a little advantage to ACC there.
But I find it disappointing that as a fan and buyer of every Gran Turismo title to date and every Playstation from 1 through 4 I am at a point that the Gran Turismo franchise in its gameplay, realism and ability to be THAT game the franchise has failed to keep pace with the advances of the competing titles to a point that I do not see me buying the upcoming release as in so many areas as a new supposedly AAA type game release it basically does not live up to its reputation or hype.

 

[Dave A]

I don't think he's saying that, he's just saying he wants GT to provide a challenge to more than beginners, like ACC (and other games) does. Having highly skilled AI as an option for players doesn't suddenly turn it into a hardcore racing sim.

The fact GT Sport asks every single player irrespective of experience to do "This is a steering wheel, this is an accelerator pedal, this is a brake pedal" driving school tests is absurd, and the difficulty doesn't exactly ramp up from there.

I've never been to a racing school but I'm pretty sure they don't treat everyone as if they've just laid eyes on a motor vehicle for the first time.

He was initially talking about physics not, the AI. I totally agree, the AI needs to improve, but he's being a bit disingenuous as far as the physics go. They are relastic, just not the most realistic. Gran Turismo is not bieng left behind in terms of physics either, it has consistently kept it's pace a little bit behind what are considered the harcore sims of it's time.

It's never been the pinnacle of race sim physics ever, so to say it's being left behind is plain false when it still occupies that same spot in comparison to other racers as it always has. It's always compromised for the sake of mass appeal and if that isn't for everyone, fine, but it's unlikely to change. Same for Forza Motorpsort.

As for improving other elements of the gameplay, yes there's huge scope for improvement there.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

He's quite specifically talking about physics not, the AI. I totally agree, the AI needs to improve, but he's being a bit disingenuous as far as the physics go. They are relastic, just not the most realistic. Gran Turismo is not bieng left behind in terms of physics either, it has consistently kept it's pace a little bit behind what are considered the harcore sims of it's time.

I am talking about the game as a whole and yes Physics is a place that compared to other games and that want to be considered a "serious driving or racing experience" as GT always claims that is what it is as compared to the "hardcore" sims as you class it seems games such as ACC or F1, Gran Turismo are way further behind modern titles than they were the competing titles in past decades.
That is the point is years ago there was no where near the level of serious competition in the Sim genre and GT offered enough performance level as compared to the other titles to still be in the same league overall.
Today that is not true, their advancements lag further and further behind other modern racing titles with each title they release.

so to say it's being left behind is plain false when it still occupies that same spot in comparison to other racers as it always has

Apparently I see and hear different stuff than you do, there was a time GT was considered as a pretty good racing game and sim across the titles offered. Over the last few years in most peoples opinion it even ranks behind Forza by a pretty good margin in single player anyway.
I know of no actual dedicated racing sims except for this forum where Gran Turismo is even in the conversation to be considered a better competitive racing sim than the other major sim titles.
When the original AC which was released (Dec.2014) just about a full 3 years prior to the release of GT Sport(Oct.2017) is still considered by most to be a superior racing game to GT Sport you may want to start rethinking that "not being left behind" thing!

The argument that @VFOURMAX1 was making that Gran Turismo should narrow it's focus to a single type of car or discipline so it can be the more realistic racing sim falls flat beucase we have those single dicsipline focused games already,

The purpose of that statement is it is pretty apparent that Grand Turismo cannot focus across such a wide spectrum of content to improve the game to the level it needs to improve.
By narrowing down that focus they can then concentrate on getting the content they release performance wise to be actual top quality instead of just a lot of quantity with mediocre quality performance.

When you talk about improving tire models or physics every class of car has different requirements, it is not one size fits all if you want the cars to actually mimic the driving experience of its real life counterpart.
And what player does not want a Porsche to handle and behave like a real life Porsche or an Aston to drive and behave again like the actual car would in the same scenario and yes physics, tire models and grip and even brakes affect that duplication. And whether that is a road car, gt4 car or gt3 car they all are completely different and have different physic requirements.
Honestly my opinion in GT a road car physics are just make it feel floaty, slide the rear easy and not turn worth a darn is GT's overall formula for those cars.

And the AI, the AI needs to be developed and programmed differently for every car class and every track and every weather condition not to mention if you want realism to react differently to different situations and also for each difficulty level. Try

So as you said there are already GT cars, F1 cars and so forth in other more narrow focused sims why I recommended GT focus on road cars and club racing classes based more off of the road cars they like so well and is the base of what sets them apart. Even stuff like touring car classes is not as much of a focus as other games and allows GT to regain its own identity while making the amount of content be at a level they can actually improve areas like the physics, the AI and single player content to be on the level to offer all players a realistic challenge and car feel regardless of their experience beginner or expert.

I do not see why people seem so against GT doing what it needs to do to really again be considered a top shelf game and experience. Say what you want still but as other titles continue to advance their games and experience even further ahead of GT with every new title or at times each update the shortcomings of gt are even more apparent to many players.
And again in my opinion GT needs to narrow its focus somewhat to be able to really improve in a lot of technical areas. I am not knocking the game or putting it down just stating it needs to get a lot better and has been riding on its past success and too much and it is starting to really show.

Starting to remind me in some ways of EA sports and the Madden franchise and over the years have lost the very things that made the game great.

 

[o000o]

One thing I have seen for years is how Gran Turismo fans will make excuses for the games short comings and weaknesses and the decrease in the games realism and lack of innovation in things like the AI performance and even adjustability, the poor car class combinations and BOP in the classes along with falling further and further behind the competition in physics and driving realism and instead of demanding a better product they seem complacent to a game that has fallen so far behind the competition they are not even considered to be in the same class anymore.

As a player if this satisfies your expectations great, keep buying the product but then do not complain because it does not meet expectations for performance and or realism because you keep accepting the shortcomings by buying an inferior product. Guess maybe you are right Gran Turismo as a single player experience in its current state is really just for beginners only.

Yeah, keep degrading anyone who doesn't continually bash GT and being all negative. I'm trying to be fair, I want to give credit for what GT does, but I also will criticize their questionable decisions. I never even talk about GT AI being good. I also think the car class combination and BOP in GTS is an utter ****. Who in the hell thinks it's a good idea to base car performance strictly on HP? By this logic Elise 190 and Civic Type-R (EK) is equal, when the former is on different league. And this is the reason why X-Bow is broken, due to it being classified as N300 due to its hp alone, ignoring its weight, which puts its performance on par with supercars like 458 Italia (based on PP). PP is imperfect too, but it's better way as it takes into account not only on hp.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Yeah, keep degrading anyone who doesn't continually bash GT and being all negative. I'm trying to be fair, I want to give credit for what GT does, but I also will criticize their questionable decisions. I never even talk about GT AI being good. I also think the car class combination and BOP in GTS is an utter ****. Who in the hell thinks it's a good idea to base car performance strictly on HP? By this logic Elise 190 and Civic Type-R (EK) is equal, when the former is on different league. And this is the reason why X-Bow is broken, due to it being classified as N300 due to its hp alone, ignoring its weight, which puts its performance on par with supercars like 458 Italia (based on PP). PP is imperfect too, but it's better way as it takes into account not only on hp.

And this is where you take my comments wrong, I am not degrading ANYONE that does not bash GT.
I am in the same boat and have continued buying the game even though it is getting worse and by doing that am doing nothing but supporting the release of a half baked product in many areas.
I will no longer do that but would love to see them get their act together in the area they are now so weak and dysfunctional. You see a lot of the weakness as well and point it out in your post

 

[DefNotJake]

It's actually far higher, around 83%.

https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sport_play_ratio

Only 7% have done 11+ races.

That is insane, and kinda funny too. I've been told by Sports players ever since the release that the Sport mode was the future of the series, and singleplayer content was the past and never coming back the way it once was. Also seems that more players even played the watered down campaign mode.

Very amusing for sure.

Can't blame them. Online racing isn't the appeal to GT for me. When I think GT I don't think international eSports. I think of a quirky Japanese-influenced car collecting game.

And when I think of GT online racing, I don't think of international eSports, I think of stuff like this...

 

[Dave A]

I am talking about the game as a whole and yes Physics is a place that compared to other games and that want to be considered a "serious driving or racing experience" as GT always claims that is what it is as compared to the "hardcore" sims as you class it seems games such as ACC or F1, Gran Turismo are way further behind modern titles than they were the competing titles in past decades.
That is the point is years ago there was no where near the level of serious competition in the Sim genre and GT offered enough performance level as compared to the other titles to still be in the same league overall.
Today that is not true, their advancements lag further and further behind other modern racing titles with each title they release.

That's not true of 1995 either, there have always been more realistic racing sims than Gran Turismo, Gran Turismo wasn't even unique in that is aspired to appear realistic and it was on consoles. It was not alone in this regard though, titles like the original TOCA preceded it.

Apparently I see and hear different stuff than you do, there was a time GT was considered as a pretty good racing game and sim across the titles offered. Over the last few years in most peoples opinion it even ranks behind Forza by a pretty good margin in single player anyway.

The which is better, Gran Turismo or Forza is no more than fan opinion with some preferring one over the toher for whatever reason that they have.

I know of no actual dedicated racing sims except for this forum where Gran Turismo is even in the conversation to be considered a better competitive racing sim than the other major sim titles.
When the original AC which was released (Dec.2014) just about a full 3 years prior to the release of GT Sport(Oct.2017) is still considered by most to be a superior racing game to GT Sport you may want to start rethinking that "not being left behind" thing!

Read what I'm saying again, GT has never been the pinnacle of realism at any respective time. What has happened recently is more realistic racing sims have increased in popularity. That is not the same thing as Gran Turismo slipping behind in realism when it has always held that realistic but with compromises position.

The purpose of that statement is it is pretty apparent that Grand Turismo cannot focus across such a wide spectrum of content to improve the game to the level it needs to improve.

Needs to improve according to who?You? My point exactley. Gran Turismo sells far more copies than ACC and similar titles, which while they have gained some popularity are still far more niche than GT or Forza. So why exatcly does Gran Turismo need to aspire to these more nich, less popular titles?

By narrowing down that focus they can then concentrate on getting the content they release performance wise to be actual top quality instead of just a lot of quantity with mediocre quality performance.

And there is your problem, you describe something that's actually good as mediocre. Certianly there are penty of ways to improve Gran Turismo, certainly there are more realistic sims out there, but Gran Turismo is most certainly not mediocre.

When you talk about improving tire models or physics every class of car has different requirements, it is not one size fits all if you want the cars to actually mimic the driving experience of its real life counterpart.
And what player does not want a Porsche to handle and behave like a real life Porsche or an Aston to drive and behave again like the actual car would in the same scenario and yes physics, tire models and grip and even brakes affect that duplication. And whether that is a road car, gt4 car or gt3 car they all are completely different and have different physic requirements.

This is both ture and not true, it highly depends on the scope and quality of the physics model being used. You do not necessarily need a different physics model for one type of car over another. But if the physcis model is limited you may need to "tweak" things to get a close to desirable result.

Honestly my opinion in GT a road car physics are just make it feel floaty, slide the rear easy and not turn worth a darn is GT's overall formula for those cars.

Your opinion differs to mine.

And the AI, the AI needs to be developed and programmed differently for every car class and every track and every weather condition not to mention if you want realism to react differently to different situations and also for each difficulty level. Try

The AI would benefit for much improvement, I agree with that. It's unlikely to happen though because GT occupys a space where it proves to remain considerably more popular than other more niche titles. But I would love to see improvements in the AI.

So as you said there are already GT cars, F1 cars and so forth in other more narrow focused sims why I recommended GT focus on road cars and club racing classes based more off of the road cars they like so well and is the base of what sets them apart. Even stuff like touring car classes is not as much of a focus as other games and allows GT to regain its own identity while making the amount of content be at a level they can actually improve areas like the physics, the AI and single player content to be on the level to offer all players a realistic challenge and car feel regardless of their experience beginner or expert.

You are missing the point of Gran Turismo still.

I do not see why people seem so against GT doing what it needs to do to really again be considered a top shelf game and experience.

It already is considered a top shelf game, it's sales numbers reflect that. What you want is for it to be considerewd a hardcore sim, but it doesn't need to be one. It sits just fine where it is in terms of driving simulation, which improves as other games do but doesn't go so far as the likes of ACC.

Say what you want still but as other titles continue to advance their games and experience even further ahead of GT with every new title or at times each update the shortcomings of gt are even more apparent to many players.
And again in my opinion GT needs to narrow its focus somewhat to be able to really improve in a lot of technical areas. I am not knocking the game or putting it down just stating it needs to get a lot better and has been riding on its past success and too much and it is starting to really show.

Say what you want, Gran Turismo has been improving too. It operates at it's level on the scale and it likely to continue to be successful and popular by not being niche. I want Gran Turismo to be the best experience it can be, but you are describing it as though it's miles off the pace, when the fact is it's a decent sim, just not a top one where driving physics are concerned. Where AI is concerned it could do with vast improvement, and wher the single player structure is concerened that's a massive topic that generates a wide range of differing responses.

And this is where you take my comments wrong, I am not degrading ANYONE that does not bash GT.

You literally moments before implied that people who play Gran Turismo are just beginners. That is so wrong on so many levels.

 

[Darla Starch]

And when I think of GT online racing, I don't think of international eSports, I think of stuff like this...View attachment 990983

All it needs to be perfect is a Midget II.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

That's not true of 1995 either, there have always been more realistic racing sims than Gran Turismo, Gran Turismo wasn't even unique in that is aspired to appear realistic and it was on consoles. It was not alone in this regard though, titles like the original TOCA preceded it.

The which is better, Gran Turismo or Forza is no more than fan opinion with some preferring one over the toher for whatever reason that they have.

Read what I'm saying again, GT has never been the pinnacle of realism at any respective time. What has happened recently is more realistic racing sims have increased in popularity. That is not the same thing as Gran Turismo slipping behind in realism when it has always held that realistic but with compromises position.


Needs to improve according to who?You? My point exactley. Gran Turismo sells far more copies than ACC and similar titles, which while they have gained some popularity are still far more niche than GT or Forza. So why exatcly does Gran Turismo need to aspire to these more nich, less popular titles?

And there is your problem, you describe something that's actually good as mediocre. Certianly there are penty of ways to improve Gran Turismo, certainly there are more realistic sims out there, but Gran Turismo is most certainly not mediocre.

This is both ture and not true, it highly depends on the scope and quality of the physics model being used. You do not necessarily need a different physics model for one type of car over another. But if the physcis model is limited you may need to "tweak" things to get a close to desirable result.

Your opinion differs to mine.

The AI would benefit for much improvement, I agree with that. It's unlikely to happen though because GT occupys a space where it proves to remain considerably more popular than other more niche titles. But I would love to see improvements in the AI.

You are missing the point of Gran Turismo still.

It already is considered a top shelf game, it's sales numbers reflect that. What you want is for it to be considerewd a hardcore sim, but it doesn't need to be one. It sits just fine where it is in terms of driving simulation, which improves as other games do but doesn't go so far as the likes of ACC.

Say what you want, Gran Turismo has been improving too. It operates at it's level on the scale and it likely to continue to be successful and popular by not being niche. I want Gran Turismo to be the best experience it can be, but you are describing it as though it's miles off the pace, when the fact is it's a decent sim, just not a top one where driving physics are concerned. Where AI is concerned it could do with vast improvement, and wher the single player structure is concerened that's a massive topic that generates a wide range of differing responses.

You literally moments before implied that people who play Gran Turismo are just beginners. That is so wrong on so many levels.

You have your viewpoint and I have mine.
Does not make either one of us right or wrong just different ideas of what Gran Turismo is and what it should aspire to be.
But it is apparent we are no where near on the same page on our thoughts concerning Gran Turismo or the racing game genre as a whole actually.
That though is okay as well.

 

[Dave A]

You have your viewpoint and I have mine.
Does not make either one of us right or wrong just different ideas of what Gran Turismo is and what it should aspire to be.
But it is apparent we are no where near on the same page on our thoughts concerning Gran Turismo or the racing game genre as a whole actually.
That though is okay as well.

Viewpoint = I prefer Forza to Gran Turismo.

Viewpoint = I think Gran Turismo would be better with more realistic physics.

Wrong = Gran Turismo must have better physics to succeed.

Wrong = Gran Turismo is for beginners.

 

[DefNotJake]

You have your viewpoint and I have mine.
Does not make either one of us right or wrong just different ideas of what Gran Turismo is and what it should aspire to be.
But it is apparent we are no where near on the same page on our thoughts concerning Gran Turismo or the racing game genre as a whole actually.
That though is okay as well.

I have an iRacing account, and even have an A-License for road courses. Yet, I still have the belief that if Gran Turismo ever abandoned their fun > realism mindset, I would never have a reason to play the game again. I even play GT with a controller, even though I own a wheel that is fully compatible with my Playstation. Why? Because Gran Turismo is a game I enjoy playing. iRacing is a hobby, and some times can feel like a second job if you don't have the proper mindset. I'm so tired of fellow sim racers who play other realistic sim racing games, and then insist every racing game should strive to be realistic as well... and if it isn't, then somehow its simply not as good? Believe it or not, some people just want to sit on their couch and play a racing game where they can share a laugh with friends. Not everyone wants to be sweaty after a gaming session.


...and not to mention, not everyone wants to buy a $300+ dollar wheel to get a decent experience on any game that considers themselves a sim. Even GT Sport is starting to have the issue of giving wheel users large advantages, and in my opinion, they should reverse this as soon as possible.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Viewpoint = I prefer Forza to Gran Turismo

Never owned an X-box or played Forza a day in my life just going by what seems to be the dominate consensus on multiple forums and message boards over the past few years.

Viewpoint = I think Gran Turismo would be better with more realistic physics

Without a doubt! In my opinion even project cars 2 has better physics than GTS and look at how small a studio released that game.
Polyphony should be ashamed really they do no better than they do with the size of the studio and financial backing they have when they usually only release a game every 4 or 5 years.
Kunos is all the way up to 25 employees now and look at the job they do, sort of a David and Goliath and Goliath just like in the original story is still getting his butt kicked.

Wrong = Gran Turismo must have better physics to succeed

If they want to actually release what they claim to be then most definately there is no question!
"The Real Driving Simulator" which is a quote directly off their retail package front cover for GTS.

Wrong = Gran Turismo is for beginners

And gets more to that level with every release in my opinion as compared to other modern racing titles.

 

[Samus]

Single player Gran Turismo Sport is absolutely for beginners, and the game treats everyone as one.

 

[Dave A]

Never owned an X-box or played Forza a day in my life just going by what seems to be the dominate consensus on multiple forums and message boards over the past few years.

I didn't mean that was your opinion, just highlighting the difference between an opinion and what is wrong.

Without a doubt! In my opinion even project cars 2 has better physics than GTS and look at how small a studio released that game.
Polyphony should be ashamed really they do no better than they do with the size of the studio and financial backing they have when they usually only release a game every 4 or 5 years.
Kunos is all the way up to 25 employees now and look at the job they do, sort of a David and Goliath and Goliath just like in the original story is still getting his butt kicked.

Again, fine as an opinion.

If they want to actually release what they claim to be then most definately there is no question!
"The Real Driving Simulator" which is a quote directly off their retail package front cover for GTS.

Explain why it needs this to be a success? Is it not a success? Will GT7 sell fewer copies than Assetto Corza Competizione if it doesn't improve it's physics to a comparable level? By mid-2019 GT Sport had sold in the region of 8 million copies. Certainly no sign that GT7 will be anything other than a success. Unless you are defining success as your own personal enjoyment of the game, but that's not an accurate definition.

And gets more to that level with every release in my opinion as compared to other modern racing titles.

And yet some of those who enjoy GT Sport are people who compete in professional motorpsorts. Certainly beginners those guys.

 

[05XR8]

That's what Kaz says in an interview. He makes it for those that never driven a car and those new to Gran Turismo.

 

[redhed17]

That is insane, and kinda funny too. I've been told by Sports players ever since the release that the Sport mode was the future of the series, and singleplayer content was the past and never coming back the way it once was. Also seems that more players even played the watered down campaign mode.

Very amusing for sure.





And when I think of GT online racing, I don't think of international eSports, I think of stuff like this...View attachment 990983

That image for me highlights what GT does badly sometime in putting inappropriate (imho) cars, and in this image pickups, in an offline race. For me, it just breaks the immersion. There should be options to choose which cars you want included in any class race. And indeed there should be the option to choose whichever cars you want in a race, even if they are not in the same class. If you give the option for customisable races, make them fully customisable.

 

[DefNotJake]

That image for me highlights what GT does badly sometime in putting inappropriate (imho) cars, and in this image pickups, in an offline race. For me, it just breaks the immersion. There should be options to choose which cars you want included in any class race. And indeed there should be the option to choose whichever cars you want in a race, even if they are not in the same class. If you give the option for customisable races, make them fully customisable.

It was an old online race replay (i think shuffle mode), where the Dodge Ram won.. while on an indoor go-kart track. It's awesome.

 

[05XR8]

Well, I mean...

 

[DefNotJake]

Well, I mean...

The gen 4 NASCAR took me by surprise lol

 

[05XR8]

The gen 4 NASCAR took me by surprise lol

First time I've seen this combo. Just decided to see if there were utes racing sedans.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Explain why it needs this to be a success? Is it not a success? Will GT7 sell fewer copies than Assetto Corza Competizione if it doesn't improve it's physics to a comparable level? By mid-2019 GT Sport had sold in the region of 8 million copies. Certainly no sign that GT7 will be anything other than a success. Unless you are defining success as your own personal enjoyment of the game, but that's not an accurate definition.

Guess it depends on what you rate as a success, to me GTS promoting the e-sport aspect as its primary focus and so very few players doing what was it like 7 or 8 total races is not a success of what your goal was.

Out of those total sales how many people are still playing the game at all or how many bought the GT Sport game and as a result of their experience with that game and its content or game play may never buy the franchise again?
Again ACC is a small studio with 25 employees so what a small studio can consider a major success a large well financed studio like Polyphony may consider a total loss.

I would tend to guess from online reviews and average public opinion that ACC and its games reputation for gameplay and really good content in the arena they advertise to be in is definately on an upward positive swing from what they have released over the last couple of years.
I am not sure I would make that same claim as to what GT Sport has released as to the non fanboy of the opinion of the franchise over the last few years of the game.

But again the bar for success may well be different, one one side the size of the studio and a payroll of over 170 employees and the overhead associated with a studio that size and actually a reputation of a top shelf game that spans decades that in my opinion the latest content is failing to meet those expectations for many people.

And the bar for a small studio who has just recently grown to 25 employees and only released their first game less than 7 years ago and both of their releases have done well and they are quickly becoming one of the major players in the racing sim world. I would rank that a major win in the success world and with a lower overhead and a growing fan base who knows what or where their limit and success may peak.

And yet some of those who enjoy GT Sport are people who compete in professional motorpsorts. Certainly beginners those guys

Actually by far iRacing sports the most big name top tier series actual racers.
But there are a few actual Blancain GT3 drivers who have been known to participate in ACC events and races. N. Thiim and D. Perel are well known to have done so.
As far as real world top tier circuit racers who has competed in GTS events that were not being paid to do so?

 

[DefNotJake]

Actually by far iRacing sports the most big name top tier series actual racers.
But there are a few actual Blancain GT3 drivers who have been known to participate in ACC events and races. N. Thiim and D. Perel are well known to have done so.
As far as real world top tier circuit racers who has competed in GTS events that were not being paid to do so?

This Nicki Thiim?

Spoiler: Language warning

Just because drivers use a certain platform, doesn't mean they think the driving experience is realistic.

 

[ScottPuss20]

If you want a 100% realistic, uncompromised driving experience, do not buy Gran Turismo. It's that simple. I don't want it to be a full on simulator, and it will never be one so if you're here to bash this game senseless because of that, you're in the wrong forum. The people I play with are not beginners, and neither am I so no, Gran Turismo is NOT reserved for beginners.