Gran Turismo Physics(Poll)

[Johnnypenso]

The fact that those time trials only accept times for 2 weeks and they are often using a car/track combo that does not appeal to a lot of people severely limits the number of people who bother with them.

As for the people I know the physics has nothing to do with the decision to not bother with them. Instead it is that they are not in the mood to drive it in the allotted time span, they don't like the track/car/tire/tune combo they are forced to use.

We desperately need a full leaderboard system that does not limit times to those posted in a two week period and does not delete them after 4 weeks and we need the ability to run time trails on any track in any car we like.

I have ran in a few of the TTs in GT5 and in most of them in GT6 so far but I have not bothered to try and post a good time in any of them. IMO it is just a waste of time as that time will just get removed in a few days anyway and even if you get near the top to me that is meaningless as you are only competing against the small percentage of drivers who drove the trial during that 2 week period.

In GT5 you had a vast variety of car/track combinations and most of them were "open" meaning you could choose any car that fit the regs out of dozens or sometimes hundreds of choices. Payouts were often huge, especially later in the game. Yet no matter the combination the numbers consistently hovered around 1% give or take. Surely in a two week span, most people that had interest in the TT would find 15-20 minutes to run a few laps?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

By the time that they opened them up and increased the prize money myself and all of my friends had pretty much quit playing GT5. I would say that this was the case with a lot of people who bought the game.

I can't stress enough the hindrance that only allowing times to be posted over two weeks is to the turn out and then add to that that the times will be deleted right away makes it worse still. I doubt this has anything to do with the physics engine, just that people don't like these time trials much.

I will run most of them once just to get a few credits but do not find them very appealing. I still have not saw one on either GT5 or 6 that actually caught my interest as being something I really wanted to do.

 

[TokoTurismo]

GT's physics are simcade, and I like it to stay that way. It was far from a simulator from the very beginning.

 

[diegorborges]

GT's physics are simcade, and I like it to stay that way. It was far from a simulator from the very beginning.

Take a look at the tire compounds discussion thread and think again. It is a simulator, just need some more tweaks in the tire area.

At the moment, using one or two levels below the stock tires its a whole new world.

I've been comparing GT6 to Asseto Corsa, the best actual simulator imho and using comfort tires it feels surprisingly good.

 

[spencer7x7]

It's a simulator for sure, without any driving aids cars can be hard to drive.

 

[FoRiZon]

A Simulator not as realistic as some PC Simulators but enough to be realistic.

 

[HuskyGT]

The options are too biased as HBR mentioned. So I didn't vote either. I don't care about the arcade or simulation crap. GT's physics are almost always great (except GT4), so I don't feel they need a change.

 

[Rafael F]

I can't call GT simulation without tire air pressure adjustment,tires are one of the most important things for physics simulation.

True!

 

[Imari]

As it stands right now, GT6 is the best driving simulator on the market.

On console? Debatable, but it's certainly up there with the best.
On any platform? Not a chance.

 

[Exorcet]

If they want to make a game true to simulation, they'll need to discard the arcade aspects of the game(as well as the playerbase that would purchase such a game) and focus on 100% real world physics without compromise.

Or they could just use a physics slider, or aids, or whatever SRF is.

It won't be fun

I think it would be loads of fun.

it won't be nearly as popular as it is now

I've seen tons of people get excited over GT because they couldn't play it. It seems that one of the things that can attract casual players is a non casual experience. I've seen it even in games way more "hardcore" than GT:

Language warning in a few spots

Language warning in a few spots

And that game also has a game mode for when people get bored of not knowing which way is up.

They will never produce such a game because it won't gross the money that was put into it.

Eagle Dynamics and Lockheed Martin (Prepar3D) are doing it, slightly different genre but the same concept. There's no reason you couldn't have a commercially successful high fidelity sim.

Instead, PD will continue to balance the physics of GT on a double-edge'd sword to make sure both hardcore and casual gamers continue purchasing their product.

I think one size fits all is one of their problems. Also, increasing the realism of a few things isn't going to alienate the casual players. The people who already don't know how to tune will continue to not know with improved physics, but at least with better physics they could on paper look up tuning advice online from real sources.

 

[Gejabo]

Don't what it is but I like it.

GT will always be a game for everyone, so I strongly doubt that it will ever. Become a full on Sim.

 

[LightningLord]

Gran Turismo 6 is not a sim. It's simcade. But it has more realism than Forza.

 

[carracerptp]

I voted "simulator" I don't think GT6 is as bad as people claim.

99% of players treat any GT game as a simcade style game. It really is best setup for that. But... if you drop the tires down to a realistic grip level, and stay away from anything faster than 450~ PP, it can be a simulator.

Thanks to problems in GT 4-5-6 the faster your car goes the more unrealistic it gets ( @R1600Turbo pointed this out to me first ). So driving a Miata on CH tires with ABS 0 and a slightly softer than stock suspension is very realistic.

Now if you slap RH tires on 99% of all race cars you will have IMHO about the right grip for a REALLY sticky tire but in GT6 the tires make too much grip in the wrong places.

And if you put RS tires on anything it will have to much grip to be considered realistic.

Sure GT6 has more than few physics flaws but what "simulator" is perfect or even close? I have the current camps ( AC, iRacing ) and I found many problems as bad as GT6. In iRacing a GT3 car has so much aero grip it's silly and in AC you can dump a race car into a corners sideways and come out on top.

 

[CinnamonOD]

If there's room for improvement, why not?

 

[tomcat66]

I voted "simulation" because you only asked about the physics. In this regard GT6 is already rather good.

What GT6 is lacking is the racing experience - especially in offline mode. In this regard GT6 is very far from being a simulation.

 

[Master__Shake_]

On console? Debatable, but it's certainly up there with the best.
On any platform? Not a chance.

Yes, I'll admit I should've said one of the best on console; not generally speaking. But it's not nearly as good as it could be.

Or they could just use a physics slider, or aids, or whatever SRF is.

I think it would be loads of fun.

I've seen tons of people get excited over GT because they couldn't play it. It seems that one of the things that can attract casual players is a non casual experience. I've seen it even in games way more "hardcore" than GT:

I think one size fits all is one of their problems. Also, increasing the realism of a few things isn't going to alienate the casual players. The people who already don't know how to tune will continue to not know with improved physics, but at least with better physics they could on paper look up tuning advice online from real sources.

Gran Turismo will never be hardcore because they want to keep casuals. The type of hardcore I'm talking about is needing a wheel and driving rig just to play the game. No DS3 compatibility at all. When you get onto the track, you feel like the car is physically around you and your seat rumbles when you hit the edge of the track. The car doesn't hit a bump or a wall and hop into the air or go from 200 MPH to 50, but it spins out or rolls and tumbles into the grass. Things that real cars do when they hit a stationary object. To do that, along with the high demands on processing power for dynamics rendering, they might as well move the game to PC instead. Something that specific, that niche in the gaming world, would never generate the revenue to make profits. It might be fun to some people but, I believe at that point, it would be more aimed toward novice drivers that are preparing for actual races.

Maybe PS4 will have the hardware to improve GT7 immensely over 6, but it still won't be a driving simulator.

 

[jimipitbull]

Process of elimination, lets cross out all the parts that don't apply to Gran Turismo

simulation
sim·u·la·tion
[sim-yuh-ley-shuh

n]
noun
1. imitation or enactment, as of something anticipated or in testing.
2. the act or process of pretending; feigning.
3. an assumption or imitation of a particular appearance or form; counterfeit; sham.
4. Psychiatry. a conscious attempt to feign some mental or physical disorder to escape punishment or to gain a desired objective.
5. the representation of the behavior or characteristics of one system through the use of another system, especially a computer program designed for the purpose.


ar·cade
[ahr-keyd]
1.Architecture .
a) a series of arches supported on piers or columns.
b) an arched, roofed-in gallery.

2. an arched or covered passageway, usually with shops on each side.
3. an establishment, public area, etc., containing games of a mechanical and electronic type, as pinball and video games, that can be played by a customer for a fee.
4. an ornamental carving, as on a piece of furniture, in the form of a row of arches.


I don't see any crossover between these two definitions

 

[synon]

I can't call GT simulation without tire air pressure adjustment,tires are one of the most important things for physics simulation.

Why would having tire air pressure adjustment affect the physics?

 

[YZF]

GT6 has better driving physics than GT5 and it has the best physics simulation out of all GT games. There is an issue with wrong aero physics but that's just a mistake which hopefully will be fixed. Other than that, GT6 is a simulation game and it simulates many real world driving characteristics quite well.

 

[super_gt]

Why would having tire air pressure adjustment affect the physics?

Because to simulate tire air pressure GT needs more complex end realistic tire model which will lead to more realistic physics.

 

[gtracedriver1]

Simcade, what a horrible name. Hate that word

GT comes in sim category. It is not like virtual test drive though as some people complain here. They do a very good job in gameplay. Although I voted for option3 I would obviously they need to improve it every time. I like driving stock cars as it is and obviously adjust PP value, tire. I do not play much with setups at best softer suspension, racing tire.

 

[synon]

Because to simulate tire air pressure GT needs more complex end realistic tire model which will lead to more realistic physics.

Not being able to adjust something doesn't mean it is not simulated.

 

[Imari]

Why would having tire air pressure adjustment affect the physics?

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[super_gt]

Not being able to adjust something doesn't mean it is not simulated.

If GT has such physical simulation it would look like this:

 

[jimipitbull]

If GT has such physical simulation it would look like this:

Physics looks like standard cars?

 

[super_gt]

GT6 has better driving physics than GT5 and it has the best physics simulation out of all GT games. There is an issue with wrong aero physics but that's just a mistake which hopefully will be fixed. Other than that, GT6 is a simulation game and it simulates many real world driving characteristics quite well.

I'm sure that real world driving characteristics can be simulated better even on PS3 power if they want to do that!
I do my own settings with different front and rear tires an example front sport medium,rear sport hard tires on nissan gtr super gt and physics is much better and closer to the real car(onboard videos)
The car feels more agile and with better car balance and the most important thing at the limit physics is changed if you go to the corner to fast you are in trouble!

 

[Stotty]

Simcade is a fair description of GT physics, and anyone saying it’s simulation hasn’t driven a car on a track.

Personally, I don’t see that as an insult as GT has to appeal to an extremely wide range of gamers, and has to be playable on both the DS3 and wheel.

I mostly enjoy the game for what it is, but would like to see some of the key issues with the physics engine fixed...

1. FWD physics are, and always have been, rubbish – where is the entry lift off/trail brake rotation/oversteer?

2. ABS has too much of a stabilising effect on weight transfer – should simply stop a cars tyres from locking, but acts more like a stability control

3. Brake release oversteer needs to go (which I guess is linked to how ABS is modelled)

Spent a couple of hours in the X-Bow at the Ascari TT yesterday and I still enjoy the game.

 

[YZF]

I'm sure that real world driving characteristics can be simulated better even on PS3 power if they want to do that!
I do my own settings with different front and rear tires an example front sport medium,rear sport hard tires on nissan gtr super gt and physics is much better and closer to the real car(onboard videos)
The car feels more agile and with better car balance and the most important thing at the limit physics is changed if you go to the corner to fast you are in trouble!

Can the physics be improved? Without a doubt! There is still a lot of room for improvement. But that doesn't mean that current simulation is arcadish. Because in arcade racing games, developers try to create physics unrealistic on purpose. To make driving easier, to compensate players inability to drive correctly and fast. GT6 doesn't have such goal and when you turn off all aids, it tries to simulate reality and not to create alternative version of it.

 

[super_gt]

Can the physics be improved? Without a doubt! There is still a lot of room for improvement. But that doesn't mean that current simulation is arcadish. Because in arcade racing games, developers try to create physics unrealistic on purpose. To make driving easier, to compensate players inability to drive correctly and fast. GT6 doesn't have such goal and when you turn off all aids, it tries to simulate reality and not to create alternative version of it.

I have never said that GT6 physics is arcadish,it is not!
But there is still much work until reach simulation physics.

 

[86Debris86]

Simcade, what a horrible name. Hate that word

Me to. I hate most portmanteau words. It's rare it produces a nice word.

I voted "simulation" because you only asked about the physics. In this regard GT6 is already rather good.

What GT6 is lacking is the racing experience - especially in offline mode. In this regard GT6 is very far from being a simulation.

Agreed, but a pedant might be keen to point out that Gran Turismo is a driving simulator. Or at least it calls itself that.