Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Scaff]

Er no i have been saying the best for PS4 esports since the beginning of the conversation with scaff read

Even if we limit it to the PS4 we currently have two racing series that have two years of esports already done, and clear plans from both to continue it.

That GTS will sell well is almost without question, however that it will become the lead title for esports on the PS4 is a big unknown.

I certainly hope it will be a success in that regard, as it has a limited single player racing element to fall back on (unlike the other two series). However I would mainly like it to succeed in this regard as competition drives up quality across the board.

However aside from the FIA license it's not offering anything unique in terms of esports, and we have not seen anything yet along the lines of the race director and commentary tools that have been shown for PC2.

 

[ScottPuss20]

You can bet that Sony's thinking about it. It's probably not that ridiculous then.

Yeah, but we aren't Sony!

Even if we limit it to the PS4 we currently have two racing series that have two years of esports already done, and clear plans from both to continue it.

That GTS will sell well is almost without question, however that it will become the lead title for esports on the PS4 is a big unknown.

I certainly hope it will be a success in that regard, as it has a limited single player racing element to fall back on (unlike the other two series). However I would mainly like it to succeed in this regard as competition drives up quality across the board.

However aside from the FIA license it's not offering anything unique in terms of esports, and we have not seen anything yet along the lines of the race director and commentary tools that have been shown for PC2.

The success will be judged based on event management and how competitions are structured. If both of these elements work, this game could very well be a major player on the E-Sports scene - but I'm pretty sure that the popularity of the series would create a lot attention anyway. It's not like it will be ignored. Then again, Kaz has to work his butt off if he wants to realise his vision - it won't come easily or cheaply, so his team need to be prepared. There is a lot riding on this game.

 

[PzR Slim]

The success will be judged based on event management and how competitions are structured. If both of these elements work, this game could very well be a major player on the E-Sports scene - but I'm pretty sure that the popularity of the series would create a lot attention anyway. It's not like it will be ignored. Then again, Kaz has to work his butt off if he wants to realise his vision - it won't come easily or cheaply, so his team need to be prepared. There is a lot riding on this game.

Really good points. If they get the BOP and the SR to work perfectly then GTS will be a triumph as long as they continue to add cars and tracks. Another thing I'm intrigued to see is how the games plays out for those of us who aren't aliens. I'm a decent racer, quite a bit better than average but not on the same level as the really fast guys. Is the structure going to be such that drivers of all levels will feel a sense of satisfaction from taking part. With limited single player it's going to get old pretty quickly if those of us who are not troubling the winners circle don't feel some sense of accomplishment from taking part. As you say a lot riding on this one.

 

[snowgt]

IMO, it's a deliberate choice from Poly to not include a classic career mode. They want us to play online and tbh I don't know why. Maybe for the PS+ subscription that I find way too expensive.

If I had to guess, it's for the same reason they blocked everything except Sport-mode in the beta. They need as many people playing online as possible for the matchmaking to work properly.

They know they can't get away with no offline capabilities at all (hence Arcade), but an extensive career-mode with improved AI would distract people from online, so it's against GTS's concept.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah, but we aren't Sony!

The success will be judged based on event management and how competitions are structured. If both of these elements work, this game could very well be a major player on the E-Sports scene - but I'm pretty sure that the popularity of the series would create a lot attention anyway. It's not like it will be ignored. Then again, Kaz has to work his butt off if he wants to realise his vision - it won't come easily or cheaply, so his team need to be prepared. There is a lot riding on this game.

I agree, and so far we have PD only partnered with the FIA on this, both of whom are not experts in that area.

PCars esports presence was greatly helped when they joined up with ESL, who have a massive amount of experience with the event management and esports series management you mention.

I've been watching the ESL PCars series over the last few years and it's very slick, very professional and very well marshalled. Full race commentary for every event, with live streams following the action. PD had an opportunity for months to trial something of this nature within the beta and it didn't happen and a couple of months from release we have no real idea of how it's going to function as a viewable sport (and that's the key to it working as an esport).

With PC2 we know what's it's going to operate like, we know where and how it's going to be broadcast and we know the tools that it has now to be able to both direct the action that is being streamed and commentate on it without using slots on the grid (as an hour long Dev review explained how the online will work).

The point I was answering was that others will have to catch up to GTS in regard to online and esports, I utterly disagree with that, and in the case of PCars we have two years worth of evidence to support it.

Go and replay the livestream of any GTS events races and compare them to pretty much any of the ESL race events from PCars (on PS4 alone if you like), the difference in event management, race marshalling, broadcast overlays, etc is quite clear.

 

[BrainsBush]

If I had to guess, it's for the same reason they blocked everything except Sport-mode in the beta. They need as many people playing online as possible for the matchmaking to work properly.

They know they can't get away with no offline capabilities at all (hence Arcade), but an extensive career-mode with improved AI would distract people from online, so it's against GTS's concept.

And to add on that, may be this online racing push is also stimulated by Sony? It's like a business model. Just a thought: PD gets (also) paid for every online concurrent user afterwards. That way Sony hopes the numbers of PS+ users will grow even more rapidly. But maybe a complete wrong thought? Could also be a chicken-egg situation. Will GTS generate new PS+ members or will only PS+ members buy GTS (besides the exceptions and think in the bigger picture)? Time will tell.

 

[Mr P510]

E-Sports or not,I think this will be the lowest selling GT ever.
Too little ,Too late .

 

[marcvic]

Do FM7/PC2 have a running T10/SMS sanctioned championships/regularly revolving events?

 

[Scaff]

Do FM7/PC2 have a running T10/SMS sanctioned championships/regularly revolving events?

I can't speak for Forza, but in the case of PC they are now the largest racing esports platform. They run a large number of regular series across all three platforms, with sanctioned and sponsored series and gave been doing for two years.

http://www.projectcarsesports.com/

I don't see it getting smaller with PC2, quite the opposite.

 

[jm79]

I can't speak for Forza, but in the case of PC they are now the largest racing esports platform. They run a large number of regular series across all three platforms, with sanctioned and sponsored series and gave been doing for two years.

http://www.projectcarsesports.com/

I don't see it getting smaller with PC2, quite the opposite.

What about AC?

 

[Scaff]

What about AC?

Nothing for AC, but its a much smaller and more niche product.

The WRC series is not as big, but it has a fairly strong esports series each year.

 

[marcvic]

I can't speak for Forza, but in the case of PC they are now the largest racing esports platform. They run a large number of regular series across all three platforms, with sanctioned and sponsored series and gave been doing for two years.

http://www.projectcarsesports.com/

I don't see it getting smaller with PC2, quite the opposite.

Very cool 👍

Can you explain how it works (a general overview)? I can't tell if this is something that is all organised and tracked in-game or if it requires going through an external platform?

Also, how are the regularly rotating events set up?

 

[Scaff]

Very cool 👍

Can you explain how it works (a general overview)? I can't tell if this is something that is all organised and tracked in-game or if it requires going through an external platform?

Also, how are the regularly rotating events set up?

That would depend on the series in question, they range from the main series' which require registration and run a team set-up over a year long series of rounds and heats across all platforms.

You then have support series which can be run as individuals and a number of affiliated series that are supported by SMS and ESL (leagues don't apply for these, SMS actively watch leagues and will invite those they consider to meet the standards they are looking for).

Currently its run via a separate website and the PSN events tool, so once you are registered you can join teh events directly via the PS4. However PC2 will be bringing that into the actual title so you will be able to follow and join the events from within PC2, as well as being able to watch events run live and catch-up on past events.

On top of that you then have the regular community events that run as time trials, these have supported DLC, and some have again been sponsored and carry prizes from 3rd parties. These are still going and can be accessed from within the game itself (and will be returning for PC2 as well).

Overall its been well run and organized for PC1 (and a lot of that is down to partnering with ESL - the importance of a body that understands esports can't be underestimated at all), and only looks to improve for PC2.

It's exactly why I stand by the 'rest' not playing catch-up with GTS, but quite the opposite.

 

[rono_thomas]

That would depend on the series in question, they range from the main series' which require registration and run a team set-up over a year long series of rounds and heats across all platforms.

You then have support series which can be run as individuals and a number of affiliated series that are supported by SMS and ESL (leagues don't apply for these, SMS actively watch leagues and will invite those they consider to meet the standards they are looking for).

Currently its run via a separate website and the PSN events tool, so once you are registered you can join teh events directly via the PS4. However PC2 will be bringing that into the actual title so you will be able to follow and join the events from within PC2, as well as being able to watch events run live and catch-up on past events.

On top of that you then have the regular community events that run as time trials, these have supported DLC, and some have again been sponsored and carry prizes from 3rd parties. These are still going and can be accessed from within the game itself (and will be returning for PC2 as well).

Overall its been well run and organized for PC1 (and a lot of that is down to partnering with ESL - the importance of a body that understands esports can't be underestimated at all), and only looks to improve for PC2.

It's exactly why I stand by the 'rest' not playing catch-up with GTS, but quite the opposite.

I agree that pCars has a great platform to work from, the only downside for me was that as a family man I found the times of the events were to rigid and not enough on offer, I could never fit it into my schedule.

 

[jm79]

That would depend on the series in question, they range from the main series' which require registration and run a team set-up over a year long series of rounds and heats across all platforms.

You then have support series which can be run as individuals and a number of affiliated series that are supported by SMS and ESL (leagues don't apply for these, SMS actively watch leagues and will invite those they consider to meet the standards they are looking for).

Currently its run via a separate website and the PSN events tool, so once you are registered you can join teh events directly via the PS4. However PC2 will be bringing that into the actual title so you will be able to follow and join the events from within PC2, as well as being able to watch events run live and catch-up on past events.

On top of that you then have the regular community events that run as time trials, these have supported DLC, and some have again been sponsored and carry prizes from 3rd parties. These are still going and can be accessed from within the game itself (and will be returning for PC2 as well).

Overall its been well run and organized for PC1 (and a lot of that is down to partnering with ESL - the importance of a body that understands esports can't be underestimated at all), and only looks to improve for PC2.

It's exactly why I stand by the 'rest' not playing catch-up with GTS, but quite the opposite.

Cheers for the info Scaff.

For me, good quality, well informed commentary is absolutely crucial. How well is this done for these events? Is it to @Tom levels of awesome?

 

[PzR Slim]

This is what I meant when I said GTS is playing catch up. FM and PC are going to be on their second iteration of e-sports. And how all three are implemented will be compared. That's not to say GTS wont come out on top.

 

[Scaff]

I agree that pCars has a great platform to work from, the only downside for me was that as a family man I found the times of the events were to rigid and not enough on offer, I could never fit it into my schedule.

I found a similar issue with the GTS beta, which is part of the reason why a significant single player element is also important.

Cheers for the info Scaff.

For me, good quality, well informed commentary is absolutely crucial. How well is this done for these events? Is it to @Tom levels of awesome?

No ones as good as @Tom, but its pretty good in my view, that is however of course very subjective.

 

[GordonS]

I found a similar issue with the GTS beta, which is part of the reason why a significant single player element is also important.

Wasn't the talk about the Pcars eSport aspect he couldn't join in?
GTS Beta didn't focus on that side. There was only the beta limited couple of hours daily races, a whole different subject.

 

[Scaff]

Wasn't the talk about the Pcars eSport aspect he couldn't join in?
GTS Beta didn't focus on that side. There was only the beta limited couple of hours daily races, a whole different subject.

And?

You do know that the AUP permits members to discuss a conversation topic in anyway they want as long as they stick to it, and nothing in it bans a reply along the lines of my post.

Its perfectly acceptable to say that one found a similar situation with regard to another title and these absurd attempts to shut down conversations and discussions need to stop.

I mean rather than agreeing that such issues can be a problem, and sharing that it can affect a number of platforms and explaining that's why I find a good single player mode to be important I should just not have bothered responding, because that's how a conversation evolves.

However thanks for prompting me, as I had a quick look and I had forgotten about the PCars 1 on 1 cup, which by next weekend will have reached its 88th series. That runs over a number of days and between 17:45 and Midnight in Europe. Not full grid races, but a 1 on 1 shoot-out series, still its racing and esports for those that find other series tricky to join in with.

 

[GT6mebe]

Racing games have been very niche in esports compared to other genres and its mainly due to the none of them being really popular (and racing being not a traditional esports game unlike fighting games).

GTS is the only IP that has this chance. If it does not bring more awareness to racing as an esports than nothing else will....and tbh thats okay. Not everything has to be esports. GT Academy was sufficient up till now.

 

[Scaff]

Racing games have been very niche in esports compared to other genres and its mainly due to the none of them being really popular (and racing being not a traditional esports game unlike fighting games).

I would totally agree.

GTS is the only IP that has this chance. If it does not bring more awareness to racing as an esports than nothing else will....and tbh thats okay. Not everything has to be esports. GT Academy was sufficient up till now.

Based on what?

That GTS is limited to a single platform limits it's draw, so I'm interested to know why no other title stands a chance of doing so.

 

[jm79]

I would totally agree.



Based on what?

That GTS is limited to a single platform limits it's draw, so I'm interested to know why no other title stands a chance of doing so.

I guess he's saying it has a big mass market appeal, no?

 

[Scaff]

I guess he's saying it has a big mass market appeal, no?

On a single platform and not as an esport title.

Direct appeal in the past doesn't mean it will automatically transfer to a market leading esport title, beating out multi platform title.

As such I'm wondering if it's based on anything other than assumptive optimism.

 

[jm79]

On a single platform and not as an esport title.

Direct appeal in the past doesn't mean it will automatically transfer to a market leading esport title, beating out multi platform title.

As such I'm wondering if it's based on anything other than assumptive optimism.

Well it's a bit more than that, no? Millions more people, most likely, will own the game, and there is a very visible e-sports push in the marketing.

It has the FIA thing. I've seen it with amazing commentary, the instant replay feature is great, it looks a tonne better than any other title...

That isn't 'assumptive optimism' - I disagree with your appraisal there.

 

[Scaff]

Well it's a bit more than that, no? Millions more people, most likely, will own the game, and there is a very visible e-sports push in the marketing.

Millions may by it, how many of them will commit to it as a long term esports package is totally unknown.

It has the FIA thing.

How much esports experience does the FIA have?

I've seen it with amazing commentary,

You do know that's not going to happen for every event, it's going to have to rely on tools that PD provide and users taking advantage of them. None of which we have seen.

the instant replay feature is great,

It is, but we haven't seen it in use in the wild, it wasn't a part of the beta.

it looks a tonne better than any other title...

And? What does that have to do with esports success.

That isn't 'assumptive optimism' - I disagree with your appraisal there.

Feel free to do so, I don't agree it's as black and white as suggested.

 

[jm79]

Millions may buy it, how many of them will commit to it as a long term esports package is totally unknown.

Agreed, but each copy sold is another chance for someone to get involved. The more copies, the better.

How much esports experience does the FIA have?

Zero, and a very good point. However, they're at least a fairly big deal in real world motorsports. This has to help, surely?

You do know that's not going to happen for every event, it's going to have to rely on tools that PD provide and users taking advantage of them. None of which we have seen.

Agreed, good point again, but for the big events, full commentary will be amazing!

It is, but we haven't seen it in use in the wild, it wasn't a part of the beta.

Again, true. We can only wait and see!

And? What does that have to do with esports success.

This is where you're wide of the mark, I think. A realistic, beautiful game is a huge, huge draw for an esports audience. Witness the underwhelming reception that iRacing (?) got when it was used for that Vegas event. This is, in my opinion, really important for a spectator sport. The closer it can look to real-world motorsports, the more viable as an e-sport it will be.

Feel free to do so, I don't agree it's as black and white as suggested.

You're right, it's not black and white, just disagreeing with your appraisal, is all. And we can only guess, both of us.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The one major advantage GT Sport has over the other racing games in terms of esports is that it's a first-party Sony product. Sony could put the big esport events up on its various social media channels and it would almost instantly have more viewers than the existing PCARS/FM events have managed. Or iRacing.

Whether that alone is enough to deem it a success is a whole other matter. Racing games haven't made a dent in the esports world: is being the king of of a (tiny) hill in a landscape filled by mountains a huge selling point? Does a game's commercial viability in the esports realm make it a better experience for the average user? We'll see.

Will the FIA tie-in draw crowds in to watch and play? It might — though racing itself has been seeing a decline. Not that a lack of a real-world governing body with an unclear tie to the on-screen action has hurt DOTA, Rocket League, or Street Fighter. Maybe those games have succeeded because they have the most realistic graphics in their genre? Nope, not that...

Outside of Mario Kart and (maybe) Need For Speed, no other racing game has the widespread name recognition of GT. I'm hopeful that's enough to overcome what seems to be a general indifference from gamers/audiences about racing game esports (because GT's success is the genre's success), but so far all we have to go on is the limited-schedule beta and the handful of live events. I'm looking forward to seeing what fills the middle ground between those.

 

[jm79]

Will the FIA tie-in draw crowds in to watch and play? It might — though racing itself has been seeing a decline. Not that a lack of a real-world governing body with an unclear tie to the on-screen action has hurt DOTA, Rocket League, or Street Fighter. Maybe those games have succeeded because they have the most realistic graphics in their genre? Nope, not that...

No, you're right, because the realism of Street Fighter 5 compared to the real-world tournament is pretty bad. Also, Rocket League is nowhere near as realistic as the real sport either. Super good point. Sorry, I got that one a bit wrong

 

[PzR Slim]

No, you're right, because the realism of Street Fighter 5 compared to the real-world tournament is pretty bad. Also, Rocket League is nowhere near as realistic as the real sport either. Super good point. Sorry, I got that one a bit wrong

A good looking game certainly wont hurt but it'll take more than that to ensure success. More importantly for me is how it will be presented to the audience and how easy it will be them to view what they want when they want.

But at the end of the day the vast majority of us on here will probably want to be on the start line taking part in the race!

 

[Tornado]

The gap between iRacing to GTS and modern games to GTSport is quite a bit different. Is GTS so much better than everything else that would be obvious and strongly preferred when livestreamed at 720p to a computer monitor?


And looking at the games that are already big in eSports, Evo especially, does it really matter?