Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Tired Tyres]

So this is the consensus that the online newcomer should be told "You are going to be a loser." Come on guys!
This is no real life dollar/trophy hunting where only winning matters. Online there can be impressive moments even if you are not #1. New friends, groups, communities etc. can result.

About winning: they who are willing to learn driving/racing and to reach the limits may reach the first win faster with the new driver rating system, apparently also found in other racing games coming this fall. But I think GTS will have the edge on this: there will be lobbies after lobbies to join in to find a proper group (hopefully).

About the winner ceremony. If the win is a result of legit racing it is an absolute must and deserved of course.

The PURPOSE of a RACE is to WIN. Don't judge what you find in an organised lobby as the same thing that everyone else experiences.

The rating system, no matter how good it is, will put everyone at the same level initially. That will mean Ninja Aliens, Captain Slow's and everyone in between racing each other until the ratings work themselves out.

 

[marcvic]

The cool thing about the beginners who are struggling is that they have tons of learning tools to become better at car control and circuit racing.

 

[GordonS]

The PURPOSE of a RACE is to WIN. Don't judge what you find in an organised lobby as the same thing that everyone else experiences.

The rating system, no matter how good it is, will put everyone at the same level initially. That will mean Ninja Aliens, Captain Slow's and everyone in between racing each other until the ratings work themselves out.

Yes that is the purpose of racing. But often it is not the goal but the journey in a race.

I was not referring to organized community racing. I referred to my experiences in the daily races of the beta.
We'll have to see how the rating systems build up or how fast individuals level up which is going to be interesting.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So this is the consensus that the online newcomer should be told "You are going to be a loser." Come on guys!
This is no real life dollar/trophy hunting where only winning matters. Online there can be impressive moments even if you are not #1. New friends, groups, communities etc. can result.

About winning: they who are willing to learn driving/racing and to reach the limits may reach the first win faster with the new driver rating system, apparently also found in other racing games coming this fall. But I think GTS will have the edge on this: there will be lobbies after lobbies to join in to find a proper group (hopefully).

About the winner ceremony. If the win is a result of legit racing it is an absolute must and deserved of course.

If the rating system works as intended or even close to it no one will win any faster than anyone else in ranked lobbies. You'll always be paired up with people who are close to you in perfomance and if you outperform them you'll be levelled up. In theory, your average driver will win once out of every 16 races, assuming all the lobbies are full. Some may do slightly better, but, if you are, you should continue to be levelled up until you reach parity. Only at the very beginning, when the system hasn't figured out where you belong, will anyone be able to have an advantage.

I'm sure many of us hardcore racers are only looking for good battles. Personally I'll take a good, fair battle over an easy win any day but in my experience I/we are in the tiny minority.

 

[dimassa19]

Really? Racing is only losing? I dare to disagree.
For newcomers I would say this:
I believe most people don't feel as losers even if they are second, fourth or ninth for example. There can be really intense and enjoable battles in the field even if the leader would be over skilled/powered.
Racing is not losing. It is racing.

I started to play video games with GT4. I bought it just to see the cars in the dealerships! lol... After that I decided to learn to drive, and when I, with considerable effort managed a podium (third), was the most memorable race in my "career"!
[I don't remember my first win...].

 

[Scaff]

So this is the consensus that the online newcomer should be told "You are going to be a loser." Come on guys!
This is no real life dollar/trophy hunting where only winning matters. Online there can be impressive moments even if you are not #1. New friends, groups, communities etc. can result.

About winning: they who are willing to learn driving/racing and to reach the limits may reach the first win faster with the new driver rating system, apparently also found in other racing games coming this fall. But I think GTS will have the edge on this: there will be lobbies after lobbies to join in to find a proper group (hopefully).

About the winner ceremony. If the win is a result of legit racing it is an absolute must and deserved of course.

No. The consensus is that's how they see it themselves.

A reason has to exist for the fact that for an average racing title 90% of the people that buy it never go online at all, and for those that do the majority do not last more than a few races before giving up.

The point of the video was to highlight this to the community as a whole, as it certainly doesn't appear to be well known.

Now no one is saying that not being a winner is the only reason (and other online genres have worked around this), but to dismiss it out of hand is not going to help the SIM racing community grow at anything other than a snails pace.

 

[UnkaD]

A big part also comes down to the nature of racing titles, I believe. In a shooter, anyone can jump in and play. You just run around and shoot the gun. It doesn't matter how well you do relative to others. The experience is relatively the same.

In a racing game, some just can't grasp the basic concepts and always end up crashing into others or getting stuck outside every corner. They get beaten by the game before they can even think about challenging other players.

There's a lot more to it, and a lot of players don't want to put forth the effort to learn. I'm talking about average gamers who don't really have an interest in cars or racing outside of what's super trendy or in movies and video games.

I have three nephews that try to race me in GT and Forza sometimes, and the only one I notice showing any progress at all is the one that talks shop with his dad. The others still just hold full throttle and never let go no matter how many times I tell them "just slow down."

 

[ScottPuss20]

Put simply:
If you want to become a racing driver, prepare to lose. Sorry average Joe, you can't win them all. Most people are too idiotic to understand this and it ruins the experience for those who genuinely want to enjoy racing.

 

[sparkytooth]

Personally I like to race for the fate of the planet.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Put simply:
If you want to become a racing driver, prepare to lose. Sorry average Joe, you can't win them all. Most people are too idiotic to understand this and it ruins the experience for those who genuinely want to enjoy racing.

You appear to be confusing the real world, where your point would make perfect sense, with a VIDEO GAME which is a method of enjoying some spare time.

 

[another_jakhole]

You appear to be confusing the real world, where your point would make perfect sense, with a VIDEO GAME which is a method of enjoying some spare time.

But even when I'm gaming or racing, I'm looking for a challenge. Unless I'm playing a video game for the story (or in a special case), I don't like hand holding. It feels pointless to not challenge myself (unless it's a special case). The Evil Within, I've said it. That's the special case. I just can't stand the slow character. I can be unreasonably impatient.

 

[PzR Slim]

You appear to be confusing the real world, where your point would make perfect sense, with a VIDEO GAME which is a method of enjoying some spare time.

His point does make perfect sense in video games though. As I read it @CLowndes888 is saying that the absolute mess that the vast majority of public lobbies end up in is as a result of average Joe not understanding his point.

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

Oh, people just want to win? And they hate everything else? Do you know PUBG game, player unknown batleground game?
8 mil.current user base and whatever...
100 players start, ONLY ONE WINS. not just that but EVERYONE else DIES!!!! Bwahahawahaha... How come it's popular? And its online only?!

In online racing nobody dies, and you compete agains cca.20 players, not 100, for some chance of winning. And you cant create your own online championship with people from this forum with all benefits of that - mulitple races, community, learning together, all that PUBG does not have.

 

[sems4arsenal]

In a lot of ways, I feel GTSport is more "noob" friendly than any GT title. The campaign is like a giant tutorial (that gives you credit depending on how well you do). Arcade mode as well seems to give you credits so there is that. The great DS4 support will be very useful.

It's the most beginner friendly of all the sim racers I'd say. Heck, I see myself mostly spending my time in Arcade mode (like every other GT game).

 

[NixxxoN]

In a lot of way, I feel GTSport is more "noob" friendly than any GT title. The campaign is like a giant tutorial (that gives you credit depending on how well you do). Arcade mode as well seems to give you credits so there is that. The great DS4 support will be very useful.

It's the most beginner friendly of all the sim racers I'd say. Heck, I see myself mostly spending my time in Arcade mode (like every other GT game).

That was Kaz target since the beggining. Make an user-friendly sim that anyone (or most people) could play without feeling overwhelmed by all the technical stuff.

Regarding competitive racing, and winning-losing, anyone can find their place where they feel comfortable in. If they don't, its their own fault only.
There is the rating system and there are also lobbies, that will have many levels of skilled drivers.

Some people will want to go to a high level lobby, and some others to a lower level ones.

In my case, I consider myself a somewhat quick driver but really like where I've been playing since a long time ago, a lobby with people that are usually a bit less skilled than me and they are not obsessed in winning and they just want to have a good time, because I also like to have fun and not to take it too seriously. I usually have tons of fun by starting last, overtaking everyone and finish up there even if its 2nd or 3rd instead of starting in pole and getting away, for me this is boring.

 

[Scaff]

Oh, people just want to win? And they hate everything else? Do you know PUBG game, player unknown batleground game?
8 mil.current user base and whatever...
100 players start, ONLY ONE WINS. not just that but EVERYONE else DIES!!!! Bwahahawahaha... How come it's popular? And its online only?!

In online racing nobody dies, and you compete agains cca.20 players, not 100, for some chance of winning. And you cant create your own online championship with people from this forum with all benefits of that - mulitple races, community, learning together, all that PUBG does not have.

I've already covered this kind of thing before, unless you are the very first to die then no it's not the same at all.

Every FPS online is specifically engineered to be full of micro wins, and picking an outlier in terms of mechanics (and I'm quite sure you know it's not the norm) actually further illustrates that.

Every bit of kit you get, every kill you make all punch into the human reward centre, and it's easy to pick up the mechanics and work with. A sim is not even close to operating in the same way, certainly not in terms of how the are currently structured on line.


I've said it before and I will say it again, if you claim was true then we would not be seeing 90% of racing title owners never going near online, and a lot less staying around.

That was Kaz target since the beggining. Make an user-friendly sim that anyone (or most people) could play without feeling overwhelmed by all the technical stuff.

Regarding competitive racing, and winning-losing, anyone can find their place where they feel comfortable in. If they don't, its their own fault only.
There is the rating system and there are also lobbies, that will have many levels of skilled drivers.

Some people will want to go to a high level lobby, and some others to a lower level ones.

In my case, I consider myself a somewhat quick driver but really like where I've been playing since a long time ago, a lobby with people that are usually a bit less skilled than me and they are not obsessed in winning and they just want to have a good time, because I also like to have fun and not to take it too seriously. I usually have tons of fun by starting last, overtaking everyone and finish up there even if its 2nd or 3rd instead of starting in pole and getting away, for me this is boring.

So you deliberately try and balance a lobby in the direction that you will always be able to win the majority of races?

Sorry but that kind of approach is part of the problem not the solution, and certainly doesn't make it the other players fault. Unless this is just worded in a way that doesn't come across well, and you are actually saying you want a lobby with close racing with those who are equal in skill.

However you do illustrate a key point as to why racing online is not the same as a shooter, qualify well and don't mess up and it can be boring.

 

[NixxxoN]

So you deliberately try and balance a lobby in the direction that you will always be able to win the majority of races?

Sorry but that kind of approach is part of the problem not the solution, and certainly doesn't make it the other players fault. Unless this is just worded in a way that doesn't come across well, and you are actually saying you want a lobby with close racing with those who are equal in skill.

However you do illustrate a key point as to why racing online is not the same as a shooter, qualify well and don't mess up and it can be boring.

I said you just should search the places you are comfortable in. And if you don't, its your fault for not searching for good lobbies for you...

I'm comfortable in a lobby where most people are a bit slower than me (not much, just a bit) and I really like to charge from the back of the grid, battle and overtake people, thats why I'm in such lobby and I also give an advantage to the others by starting last deliberately.
In fact, most of the time we do the "reverse position" grid, where the winner of the previous race starts last and the slowest one starts on pole.
If others were not confortable in the same lobby they would leave but they dont, they enjoy too

 

[Scaff]

I said you just should search the places you are comfortable in. And if you don't, its your fault for not searching for good lobbies for you...

I'm comfortable in a lobby where most people are a bit slower than me (not much, just a bit) and I really like to charge from the back of the grid, battle and overtake people, thats why I'm in such lobby and I also give an advantage to the others by starting last deliberately.
In fact, most of the time we do the "reverse position" grid, where the winner of the previous race starts last and the slowest one starts on pole.
If others were not confortable in the same lobby they would leave but they dont, they enjoy too

I take it you can back up that anecdotal claim that they enjoy it too?

That impossible task aside, you are still deliberately biasing the grid in your favour, and assuming that everyone else likes getting beaten by you.

The 10% is getting more and more understandable, as you don't seem to understand that what you are doing is impossible for everyone to do. How exactly does everyone bias a grid to favour them (and the vast majority are going to want to win)?

 

[NixxxoN]

I take it you can back up that anecdotal claim that they enjoy it too?

That impossible task aside, you are still deliberately biasing the grid in your favour, and assuming that everyone else likes getting beaten by you.

The 10% is getting more and more understandable.

We are an online club, like a group of online friends, we know each other, we always talk with mic when we play, we even have a whatsapp group.
Me being the quickest of this group along with another guy who is about on par with me, we try to help the slower guys when they have problems with the car settings and so on.
The slower ones dont care about losing, but they just want to have some fun. They know not everything is winning, not even close. We are grown up men, not spoiled kids that start crying and quit when we are not up to pace. No one of us is obsessed with winning.
We usually also set up 15 lap races with random weather dry/wet setting so it can help the slower ones in certain circumstances when it starts raining and they can pit and put wet tires.
Dont expect the game to set up and solve everything for you, you have to put your part in it. Good attitude and good social skills from members to create a good fun lobby of people to play.

 

[azeeza]

It s not necessary to win a race to enjoy it, even if you re last.

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

Whatever Scaff said in regards of pubg having "micro wins" and then pretending (maybe faking?) like racing does not have TONS of same stuff in racing context (imo just to win an argument, obsesed with winning maybe?) I totally disagree.

 

[Scaff]

We are an online club, like a group of online friends, we know each other, we always talk with mic when we play, we even have a whatsapp group.
Me being the quickest of this group along with another guy who is about on par with me, we try to help the slower guys when they have problems with the car settings and so on.
The slower ones dont care about losing, but they just want to have some fun. They know not everything is winning, not even close. We are grown up men, not spoiled kids that start crying and quit when we are not up to pace.
We usually also set up 15 lap races with random weather dry/wet setting so it can help the slower ones in certain circumstances when it starts raining and they can pit and put wet tires.
Dont expect the game to set up and solve everything for you, you have to put your part in it. Good attitude and good social skills from members to created a good fun lobby of people to play.

So not even remotely a part of what is being discussed at all, which is the experience people who are in the 90% would have if they were to just drop into a lobby.

Oh and the passive aggressive digs are not the sort of thing that are going to help either. You are basically saying 'im ok and anyone else it's just your own fault'.

Whatever Scaff said in regards of pubg having "micro wins" and then pretending (maybe faking?) like racing does not have TONS of same stuff in racing context (imo just to win an argument, obsesed with winning maybe?) I totally disagree.

If your going to reply to someone then please quote or tag them so they have a chance to see it and respond.

Given your claim you will have no problem detailing what racing titles do this and how? I'm talking about recognition within game, and in comparison to all shooters not a single outlier current available on only one platform.

 

[NixxxoN]

So not even remotely a part of what is being discussed at all, which is the experience people who are in the 90% would have if they were to just drop into a lobby.

Oh and the passive aggressive digs are not the sort of thing that are going to help either. You are basically saying 'im ok and anyone else it's just your own fault'.

Did you fully got what I wrote? Passive digs?
Some people are comfortable racing with people more skilled than them to learn, some others are comfortable racing against people of roughly the same level, and others like myself are comfortable racing with people with a bit less skills and willing to help them improve.
Its all about yourself searching for a place you are comfortable in, it is that simple.

 

[sems4arsenal]

@Scaff The micro wins are there though. An overtake or a better lap time or increasing your SR are still mini objectives during the race.

 

[rono_thomas]

@Scaff The micro wins are there though. An overtake or a better lap time or increasing your SR are still mini objectives during the race.

I never even considered SR as a mini objective, good insight.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I never even considered SR as a mini objective, good insight.

The whole mini objective argument is really interesting. Driveclub's implementation is fantastic.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff The micro wins are there though. An overtake or a better lap time or increasing your SR are still mini objectives during the race.

My point is that aside from SR (which I will come back to in a minute) they are not recognised within the race. In a shooter just about every action is incentived and rewarded, this is either never or rarely done in a racing title.

SR did attempt it in the beta, however as many who took part will attest, it wasn't always seen as either fair or well done.

It's a step in the right direction, but its not the norm, which is the point I'm making.

 

[sems4arsenal]

My point is that aside from SR (which I will come back to in a minute) they are not recognised within the race. In a shooter just about every action is incentived and rewarded, this is either never or rarely done in a racing title.

SR did attempt it in the beta, however as many who took part will attest, it wasn't always seen as either fair or well done.

It's a step in the right direction, but its not the norm, which is the point I'm making.

That's a fair point. I'd like to see proper mini objectives. Stuff like finishing above your starting position, leading laps, etc get rewarded with credits. I still feel that these things reward the player mentally.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Whatever Scaff said in regards of pubg having "micro wins" and then pretending (maybe faking?) like racing does not have TONS of same stuff in racing context (imo just to win an argument, obsesed with winning maybe?) I totally disagree.

You can totally disagree all you like mate. Watch Destiny PvP or COD PvP fights on Youtube. Notice what pops up on screen when you do something. Show me a Gran Turismo, Pro Cars or Assetto Corso online race that does the same. That is a micro win.

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

Fps also dont give you money/stuff for majority prevously mentioned "microwins"... Regarding the amout of times they do i still recon its about same on both fronts. Even more in case of championships, because of greater picture (future races in that championship and relationships with same players you are going to drive in that).