Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Tenacious D]

The fact that people are carrying on about this is just strange.

This is human nature in the new millennium. Be offended at everything. Be jealous of everyone who has a dollar more than you. Demand free lunch or the world is unfair and Jesus hates you. Look who's running away with recent contests on the democrat side of our presidential primaries. As if the other three are much better...

I totally agree with everything you've said, and have said essentially the same thing for a week now. But logic like this flies in the face of the jealous like a mud pie with gravel in it because... well, God forbid progress happens and someone has a better toy than you. The fact that games will play the same and still look delicious on your "antique" PS4 is beside the point. If you have a shinier toy, MUST BE OFFEND!

I sure hope that PS4K thread starts pretty soo0n so it can draw the bickering away like a lightning rod. Hopefully. And then we can continue complaining about how Kaz hates us through his games... oy.

 

[Eh Team]

I really don't see why people are reacting like this, it changes nothing about PS4. Nobody has made the PS4 obsolete and Sony aren't alienating anyone lol. If the rumours about PS4K are true, all it will mean is that a higher spec PS4 will be released, likely at the same price the original PS4 launched at. The regular PS4 would likely still sell alongside it, as a cheaper option, and Sony would have to make sure all future games would still support the PS4, but there would be a higher spec option available for people who want 4K Bluray playback. As for the games, they won't be in 4K, or anything dramatically different to the current games, they will likely just be able to run in higher graphics settings.

If you bought your PS4 for racing sims, you'll still be able to play those games, with the same peripherals, as anyone who owns a PS4K, and you'll have spent far less on your console than those people will. The only difference you'll find is the games will run lower graphics settings on the PS4 than on PS4K. This is something PC gamers have had in their games forever and you don't see them spitting the dummy over it, and they spend thousands on their PCs.

I see it as a good thing. PS4K should run closer to the highest PC settings for multiplats, while still allowing older systems to run the same games at the same settings they would have if the PS4K didn't exist. The PS4 literally won't be any different than it would have otherwise, it doesn't suddenly make the PS4 weaker than it already is. The better GPU in the PS4K will also allow the PSVR to more closely compete with other VR systems on the market.

The fact that people are carrying on about this is just strange. PC gamers accept that the games will support the most powerful systems, and that after a couple of years, their system will no longer be top of the range. They understand they can still run the games, and their system will still be capable of the same graphics and performance it always has been, but the games will be capable of more thanks to the newer systems being more powerful. It changes nothing to the person with the older hardware, it just means there are newer and better options on the market. It would be hilarious if PC gamers started complaining that a better PC was released than theirs, so why is it any different for a console owner?

The backlash from a lot of people is because they got a console for its simplicity, you put in the game, and as long as the studio that made it is even half reputable, it works just fine. They buy the console on the not unreasonable assumption that everyone is on the same hardware playing field. Consoles see upwards of 7 years of game releases between generations, on a PC, you're bound to have had to upgrade something in order to play a game you want in those 7 years.

The arguable point in all of this is that games designed for PS4K could end up running terribly on the vanilla PS4, because what if for some reason a developer decides instead to not make the game run 4K and use the extra processing power on the game itself. Now the vanilla edition is struggling to keep up the same performance on the same game causing it to possibly fry itself from being overworked.

I'm not really for or against the idea of the new PS4 after thinking on it for a while, but I can understand the frustration of those who bought in to the new generation and expected to get the full 6-7 years out of it before the next one comes out.

 

[Mike_grpA]

This is human nature in the new millennium. Be offended at everything. Be jealous of everyone who has a dollar more than you. Demand free lunch or the world is unfair and Jesus hates you. Look who's running away with recent contests on the democrat side of our presidential primaries. As if the other three are much better...

I totally agree with everything you've said, and have said essentially the same thing for a week now. But logic like this flies in the face of the jealous like a mud pie with gravel in it because... well, God forbid progress happens and someone has a better toy than you. The fact that games will play the same and still look delicious on your "antique" PS4 is beside the point. If you have a shinier toy, MUST BE OFFEND!

I sure hope that PS4K thread starts pretty soo0n so it can draw the bickering away like a lightning rod. Hopefully. And then we can continue complaining about how Kaz hates us through his games... oy.

Hahaha, yeah, well said mate. I feel I should also point out I don't plan on buying a PS4K anytime soon if they do come out, I'm more than happy playing my 'outdated' PS4. Maybe I'll pick one up when the price drops, but unlikely, as I've got far more important things to spend my money on.

Also, I bought a PS4 in the first place fully aware that it was already about 7 years outdated, so it doesn't break my balls to know that there will be another slightly better version out there lol, there's already PCs out there that make the PS4 look like an Atari lol

The backlash from a lot of people is because they got a console for its simplicity, you put in the game, and as long as the studio that made it is even half reputable, it works just fine. They buy the console on the not unreasonable assumption that everyone is on the same hardware playing field. Consoles see upwards of 7 years of game releases between generations, on a PC, you're bound to have had to upgrade something in order to play a game you want in those 7 years.

The thing is, games will still run the same as they would have anyway on PS4. You don't need to upgrade your PC to run new games, you just run them at lower settings, and the same will be true of the PS4, considering it already runs multiplats at much lower settings than PC.

The arguable point in all of this is that games designed for PS4K could end up running terribly on the vanilla PS4, because what if for some reason a developer decides instead to not make the game run 4K and use the extra processing power on the game itself. Now the vanilla edition is struggling to keep up the same performance on the same game causing it to possibly fry itself from being overworked.

The games simply will not run in 4K, as it's well beyond what the PS4K will be capable of. the '4K' refers to it's 4K blu ray drive and 4K movie playback capability. 4K gaming is the realm of multi-thousand dollar PCs. Devs will definitely use the extra grunt to run the games at a higher graphical fidelity on PS4K, but that won't affect the PS4 users, because they'd never have those graphics anyway, and their version of the game will be the same in all aspects except for graphics, which will run a lower setting, just like how the PS4 runs much lower graphics settings than the PC versions of the games.

 

[RACECAR]

I'm curious as to how many people actually own 4K TVs as well as the demand for them. I'm genuinely interested to now if there is an actual demand for that which justifies this. If not, then it'll seem like waste of investment and time.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I'm curious as to how many people actually own 4K TVs as well as the demand for them. I'm genuinely interested to now if there is an actual demand for that which justifies this. If not, then it'll seem like waste of investment and time.

The same was said about HDTVs when Sony was aggressively pushing Blu ray. I believe it's a clever marketing approach from Sony to introduce a cheap 4K movie player (current 4K movie players cost more than the PS4K will launch for, and they don't play games!), the same as how the PS3 was a relatively cheap Blu ray player at the time. The idea is it'll allow people to afford the technology to play these movies, so they'll be more likely to invest in a 4K display. Sony will likely also push the connectivity their TVs have with the PS4 to lure people into buying their 4K TVs, and it'll also entice people into upgrading their movie library to 4K, and Sony, I believe, still owns quite a few movie studios.

Edit: It also allows them to market the PS4K as a more future-proof home entertainment device than the XB1, although there are rumours that Microsoft are looking into doing something similar with regards to a mid life update for XB1.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm curious as to how many people actually own 4K TVs as well as the demand for them. I'm genuinely interested to now if there is an actual demand for that which justifies this. If not, then it'll seem like waste of investment and time.

It's not about how many owns 4k tv now, but how the market will be in a few years time. I lived in Asia, and right now, most electronic stores sell 4k tv at a price similar to 1080p tv a year or two ago ( size ranges from 40+" to 60" ) and some stores already display current year line up with more than half are 4k tv ( Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, TCL and LG ).The smart 4k tv are expensive ones, they are about 25% more expensive than 1080p smart tv from last year.

I could get 4K 42-46+" tv with around US $ 400+ to $ 600+ depending on make and features.

To consider buying PS4K, owning 4k tv should be the 1st in mind.

 

[ImaRobot]

This is human nature in the new millennium. Be offended at everything. Be jealous of everyone who has a dollar more than you. Demand free lunch or the world is unfair and Jesus hates you. Look who's running away with recent contests on the democrat side of our presidential primaries. As if the other three are much better

Well that wasn't a ridiculous statement at all.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Well that wasn't a ridiculous statement at all.

I don't see it as ridiculous. These days people expect something for nothing, are jealous of anyone with more than themselves, and are overly sensitive and get easily offended. Those traits are ridiculously common. If you're talking about the political statement, I can't comment on that, because I'm Australian, and our political system is almost as big a joke as yours.

Edit: I do think this PS4K discussion is getting way off topic though, so perhaps someone should start a PS4K thread so we don't derail this one further.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I repeatedly saying this but...
I like how people are not okay with upgrading Consoles & PC and TV's after couple years but they are totally fine on buying new phones like every year.
---
It's good that Sony made a more powerful version of PS4 but i hate the fact they did it now and not back like 2013 instead since there's people who bought the console and now they had to rebuy the same console but more powerful sounds wrong to me.

I know a lot of people who get the latest and greatest mobile every year or 2 years, yet i do not know one single person who buys a phone every year or buys a phone period. So this isnt even the same thing yet it continues to be parroted

 

[ImaRobot]

I don't see it as ridiculous. These days people expect something for nothing, are jealous of anyone with more than themselves, and are overly sensitive and get easily offended. Those traits are ridiculously common. If you're talking about the political statement, I can't comment on that, because I'm Australian, and our political system is almost as big a joke as yours.

Edit: I do think this PS4K discussion is getting way off topic though, so perhaps someone should start a PS4K thread so we don't derail this one further.

No, I'm talking about the whole thing. It was ridiculous.

 

[Mike_grpA]

No, I'm talking about the whole thing. It was ridiculous.

What's ridiculous about it?

 

[ImaRobot]

What's ridiculous about it?

Oh nothing, I'm just jealous.

 

[RACECAR]

The same was said about HDTVs when Sony was aggressively pushing Blu ray. I believe it's a clever marketing approach from Sony to introduce a cheap 4K movie player (current 4K movie players cost more than the PS4K will launch for, and they don't play games!), the same as how the PS3 was a relatively cheap Blu ray player at the time. The idea is it'll allow people to afford the technology to play these movies, so they'll be more likely to invest in a 4K display. Sony will likely also push the connectivity their TVs have with the PS4 to lure people into buying their 4K TVs, and it'll also entice people into upgrading their movie library to 4K, and Sony, I believe, still owns quite a few movie studios.

Edit: It also allows them to market the PS4K as a more future-proof home entertainment device than the XB1, although there are rumours that Microsoft are looking into doing something similar with regards to a mid life update for XB1.

I was just gonna mention how Sony sold its last two consoles using the clever strategy of making them cheaper media alternatives (PS2 heavily promoted as a DVD player, PS3 heavily promoted as a Blu-ray Player). Guess what I'm wondering is if Sony can pull the same trick with this.

 

[Eh Team]

Would you fine gentlemen please draw your attention the the newly created thread please? It seems to be rather needed at the moment since we are waayyy off topic of GT Sport.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ps4k-what-we-know-so-far-general-discussion.344605/

 

[Mike_grpA]

Would you fine gentlemen please draw your attention the the newly created thread please? It seems to be rather needed at the moment since we are waayyy off topic of GT Sport.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ps4k-what-we-know-so-far-general-discussion.344605/

Lol cheers mate, I literally just created one too, but you beat me to it by a bee's proverbial.

I was just gonna mention how Sony sold its last two consoles using the clever strategy of making them cheaper media alternatives (PS2 heavily promoted as a DVD player, PS3 heavily promoted as a Blu-ray Player). Guess what I'm wondering is if Sony can pull the same trick with this.

Yep, that seems to be the strategy.

Edit: I changed my PS4K thread to a poll:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ps4k-poll.344606/

 

[gtracedriver1]

PS4.5 and PS4K are both stupid names. They are just making this console because of PS VR and minimum requirement for it is 60fps. So PS4.5 will help them achieve that. I can't believe they think millions would this. GTS and other games will not be affected though.

 

[Mike_grpA]

PS4.5 and PS4K are both stupid names. They are just making this console because of PS VR and minimum requirement for it is 60fps. So PS4.5 will help them achieve that. I can't believe they think millions would this. GTS and other games will not be affected though.

I thought the PSVR had it's own co-processor to aid the PS4 in keeping a steady frame rate for the VR experience. My take on this PS4K thing is that it's just a beefed up GPU to handle the integrated 4K video playback functionality. Basically making it a PS4 that can play 4K movies.

 

[gtracedriver1]

I thought the PSVR had it's own co-processor to aid the PS4 in keeping a steady frame rate for the VR experience. My take on this PS4K thing is that it's just a beefed up GPU to handle the integrated 4K video playback functionality. Basically making it a PS4 that can play 4K movies.

You are probably right about 4K content but the leaks say it will be nearly twice as fast as PS4 which means fps will get a biggest boost. I think all 60ps game will easily hit 90 or 120fps and gfx intensive games like ratchet and clank, uncharted4, horizon: zero dawn etc will be 60fps in PS4.5.

PSVR is having something to sync frames but obviously gfx intensive games cannot run at 60, 90 or 120 hertz on PS4

 

[Mike_grpA]

You are probably right about 4K content but the leaks say it will be nearly twice as fast as PS4 which means fps will get a biggest boost. I think all 60ps game will easily hit 90 or 120fps and gfx intensive games like ratchet and clank, uncharted4, horizon: zero dawn etc will be 60fps in PS4.5.

PSVR is having something to sync frames but obviously gfx intensive games cannot run at 60, 90 or 120 hertz on PS4

I read the GPU will supposedly be twice as powerful, but the only mention of CPU upgrades is they are considering a better CPU. I assumed the PSVR would rely on it's co-processor, and if the PS4K gets a CPU boost it'd only be minor. Just a guess though, based on the small amount of info we've seen leaked so far.

 

[Tenacious D]

Around the world? Tens of millions will buy PS4K. I want one. Might as well get in on the ground floor with something that plays some of the best games on the market.

And just to answer the question of buying 4K TVs, Monday I'm joining the club. The 55" SONY Bravia XBR55X850C is selling in America for just shy of $1100 now with free shipping from many outlets. I will admit that if my 47" LG looked better, I'd probably stick with it. But on top of it rendering dark areas as murky mud, it's looking more like a 40" lately.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Around the world? Tens of millions will buy PS4K. I want one. Might as well get in on the ground floor with something that plays some of the best games on the market.

And just to answer the question of buying 4K TVs, Monday I'm joining the club. The 55" SONY Bravia XBR55X850C is selling in America for just shy of $1100 now with free shipping from many outlets. I will admit that if my 47" LG looked better, I'd probably stick with it. But on top of it rendering dark areas as murky mud, it's looking more like a 40" lately.

Yeah I payed $1800AUD for my 55" Bravia Smart 3D 1080P TV. Seeing how cheap 4K TVs are getting already makes me a bit jelly, but my TV is still good enough for me. If I didn't have a PS4, I'd buy the new one just in case it can play some newer games at slightly higher settings, because it'd be nice to not be so far behind the PC guys, but I've got so much enjoyment out of my PS4 that I feel I've easily gotten my money's worth out of it. I'll keep playing like a peasant on my PS4 until I've got the money spare to set up a nice high end PC for my own next gen of gaming

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yeah I payed $1800AUD for my 55" Bravia Smart 3D 1080P TV. Seeing how cheap 4K TVs are getting already makes me a bit jelly, but my TV is still good enough for me. If I didn't have a PS4, I'd buy the new one just in case it can play some newer games at slightly higher settings, because it'd be nice to not be so far behind the PC guys, but I've got so much enjoyment out of my PS4 that I feel I've easily gotten my money's worth out of it. I'll keep playing like a peasant on my PS4 until I've got the money spare to set up a nice high end PC for my own next gen of gaming

$1800 AUD may get you a nice Samsung 55" 4K smart TV or 60" non smart 4k tv which I saw last time I went to electronic store, I think the 55" had 120Hz refresh rate too. The top end 60" 4k Samsung were around $2200 AUD and still not including credit card discount promo of 10-20%.

I converted the local price to AUD

 

[cutmeamango]

I thought the PSVR had it's own co-processor to aid the PS4 in keeping a steady frame rate for the VR experience. My take on this PS4K thing is that it's just a beefed up GPU to handle the integrated 4K video playback functionality. Basically making it a PS4 that can play 4K movies.

The processor unit only handles audio for the headset and de-warping image for TV output.

The frame reprojection is handled by the PS4 and it's not a failsafe for steady framerate but a way to have more frames so movement is smoother since it'd be hard to render 90 or 120fps natively without a huge graphical hit, that's why they've been saying devs should work towards no fame drops ever.

4K video decoding can easily be done by the PS4 cpu/gpu and it already supports output for 4k at 30hz. What it lacks is support for higher refresh rates or 3D at 4K, and of course the new "UHD Premium" standard specs.

Seemingly this new iteration is to push this whole new UHD premium thing above (which could be done with a non-beefed up revision) and VR "visual quality" to some parity between non-VR games and allow them to reach solid 60fps (or 90 for games that manage 60), which from GDC presentations is quite the work with the PS4.

They probably (have reasons to) believe the video-game market is ready for frequent, incremental hardware updates, and by the looks a good part is.

Doesn't that mean some tracks won't?

It reads like that, disappointing.

 

[Mike_grpA]

The processor unit only handles audio for the headset and de-warping image for TV output.

The frame reprojection is handled by the PS4 and it's not a failsafe for steady framerate but a way to have more frames so movement is smoother since it'd be hard to render 90 or 120fps natively without a huge graphical hit, that's why they've been saying devs should work towards no fame drops ever.

4K video decoding can easily be done by the PS4 cpu/gpu and it already supports output for 4k at 30hz. What it lacks is support for higher refresh rates or 3D at 4K, and of course the new "UHD Premium" standard specs.

Seemingly this new iteration is to push this whole new UHD premium thing above (which could be done with a non-beefed up revision) and VR "visual quality" to some parity between non-VR games and allow them to reach solid 60fps (or 90 for games that manage 60), which from GDC presentations is quite the work with the PS4.

They probably (have reasons to) believe the video-game market is ready for frequent, incremental hardware updates, and by the looks a good part is.

Ah ok cool thanks for the link. Well then yeah it is probably a necessity to ensure the PSVR is up to the task of taking on it's rivals. Stable FPS and high resolution are vital to the VR experience, so it makes sense to upgrade the PS4 to make best use of the VR tech.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This is human nature in the new millennium. Be offended at everything. Be jealous of everyone who has a dollar more than you. Demand free lunch or the world is unfair and Jesus hates you. Look who's running away with recent contests on the democrat side of our presidential primaries. As if the other three are much better...

Gross exaggeration. You forgot to mention gross exaggeration.

 

[JTB10000]

It reads like that, disappointing.

I wonder what the excuse for that would be. I can't think of any plausible one.

 

[Tenacious D]

Gross exaggeration. You forgot to mention gross exaggeration.

If you had Black Lives Matter raising cain everywhere and politicians being chummy with communist dictators in Canadia, you might have a slightly different opinion.

You should be on one of those music forums I frequent. People want extremely powerful synthesizers for peanuts, and scream class warfare (no lie) about Moog Music remaking their classic modular synthesizers for... about what they're worth, which is tens of thousands of dollars. Which if we sold the Voyager at the same price as the original Minimoog Model D, it would sell for $7-8000, not the $3000 it's going for.

You can accuse me of gross exaggeration. I'd say head in sand for you.

 

[jm79]

If you had Black Lives Matter raising cain everywhere and politicians being chummy with communist dictators in Canadia, you might have a slightly different opinion.

You should be on one of those music forums I frequent. People want extremely powerful synthesizers for peanuts, and scream class warfare (no lie) about Moog Music remaking their classic modular synthesizers for... about what they're worth, which is tens of thousands of dollars. Which if we sold the Voyager at the same price as the original Minimoog Model D, it would sell for $7-8000, not the $3000 it's going for.

You can accuse me of gross exaggeration. I'd say head in sand for you.

Dude, drop all that political polemics crap. This is a forum dedicated to a driving game. Jeez.

 

[tillbot8]

Dude, drop all that political polemics crap. This is a forum dedicated to a driving game. Jeez.

He stated it once making a point and then only responded to empty criticisms about it. He is right, that is the climate which has seeped into everything nowadays, there is such an entitlement society going on and democratic socialist policies in conjunction with the left wing media is causing it! We don't get Gran turismo games if you don't have a free market! 'you didnt build that' nonsense and every blue haired misandrist and special snowflake feeling like they can collectively blame everybody else for their own problems. Hence a climate of entitlement!

I will not say anymore!

 

[Samus]

If you had Black Lives Matter raising cain everywhere and politicians being chummy with communist dictators in Canadia, you might have a slightly different opinion.

You should be on one of those music forums I frequent. People want extremely powerful synthesizers for peanuts, and scream class warfare (no lie) about Moog Music remaking their classic modular synthesizers for... about what they're worth, which is tens of thousands of dollars. Which if we sold the Voyager at the same price as the original Minimoog Model D, it would sell for $7-8000, not the $3000 it's going for.

You can accuse me of gross exaggeration. I'd say head in sand for you.

You say it's not a gross exaggeration for you to claim that it's just human nature today and then you say to see this behaviour you need to be at best in a certain country, at worst some specialist music forums with audiophile snobs.

You don't think, just maybe, you're experiencing minorities, minorities that have existed since time began? To claim this is what the whole of human nature is like is today like you did is indeed a gross exaggeration. Unless you have something more conclusive than a few protesters or audio snobs on a couple of forums.

But anyway, this has nothing to do with GT Sport.