Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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No, the claim is that it will sell more then the combined lifetime sales of all Forza titles this generation.

Forza 5 is probably sitting around 1.5-2 million(it was once owned by 1/3 of all Xbox One owners.).

Forza Horizon 2 is probably sitting around 1-1.5 million

Forza 6 is clearly the fastest selling Forza this gen by hitting a million in the first holiday so let's say 1.8-2.5 million.

Forza Horizon 3 will likely sell around 500k~ at launch.

That's 4.8 - 6.5 million.



Horizon is co-developed by Turn 10.

Even if we ignore Horizon that's still 3.3 to 4.5 million in a single week.

I threw out the 3 million number originally, but that's an incredibly conservative number. All I know is that every Forza game so far has sold over one million units, but I have no idea how far past that milestone they've gone since.

Yeah I edited my post just as you both commented lol. I looked it up, and the numbers are over 1.5m for FM6 and close to 2.2m for FM5, so GTS would literally need to outdo Uncharted 4 by a million in it's first week to match those two games, and that's in the unlikely scenario that nobody buys FM6 between now and November lol.
 
I see the inclusion of vr in Gtsport as a good thing it will mean the game has to be absolutely locked 60 fps.There will be sacrifices to achieve it no doubt but it will be worth it.
 
Predicting sales is always a complicated matter, things changes. But I think people are overestimating GT6 sales as a guide to GTS sales. The circumstances are different.
I believe GT is still the biggest Sony franchise.

You're setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
NEO uses the same CPU with a bit of a speed bump.

If it's CPU-bound the enhancements won't be much in this instance.

Twice the computing units in the GPU, and higher RAM speed, that would help a bit, although NEO would still struggle, and I can only think of more stable FPS, less drop and less slowdown.
 
Twice the computing units in the GPU, and higher RAM speed, that would help a bit, although NEO would still struggle, and I can only think of more stable FPS, less drop and less slowdown.

Why I specifically said "CPU-bound" unless they use GPU compute then even three times as many CUs isn't going to do anything and GPU compute isn't much of a solution either.
 
I'll buy GTS only with discount. I don't think that GTS will have big sales during this winter. So I think that it will be not long waiting for 1st discount appearing in PSN store. Why? Because many big titles with small sales had discounted price for little period just after 2-3 monthes after release. Look at UFC2, Dirt Rally, Need for speed 2015, Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare 2, NHL 16, Uncharted 1-3 remastered, The Orden 1886 - all of them had 15-50% discount without long waiting.
 
Add rain as well, and torture the PS4, but maybe not the case with PS4 NEO.
The actual problem with that, as opposed to the curious suggestion put forward that a (on paper and rumored) 30 percent more powerful CPU and (on paper and rumored) twice as powerful GPU wouldn't be able to notably increase the performance of a game when more visual effects are on screen, is simply that the development terms of how the rumored software enhancements are supplied suggest that Neo enhancements will be for games going forward from its launch. That might mean older titles when played on a Neo could instead be locked in an OG PS4 power mode unless whatever game in question was patched to take advantage of the Neo's capabilities.
 
Forza 6 it's not a SIM, compared to PC, AC.

By that same logic, neither is GT. However, both GT and FM deserve the sim designation, because that is their shared target: simulating reality.

Since we have plenty of GT vs FM threads littering the forums, that particular discussion can head to one of those.
 
The actual problem with that, as opposed to the curious suggestion put forward that a (on paper and rumored) 30 percent more powerful CPU and (on paper and rumored) twice as powerful GPU wouldn't be able to notably increase the performance of a game when more visual effects are on screen, is simply that the development terms of how the rumored software enhancements are supplied suggest that Neo enhancements will be for games going forward from its launch. That might mean older titles when played on a Neo could instead be locked in an OG PS4 power mode unless whatever game in question was patched to take advantage of the Neo's capabilities.

I said similarly couple of time on NEO threads. I was assuming SMS would take the opportunity and patch it for Neo, because OG PS4 struggles a lot with that many cars. Who knows there would less issue with stability as well on NEO.
 
Add rain as well, and torture the PS4, but maybe not the case with PS4 NEO.

Yeah I'm surprised it performs as well as it does under so much stress to be honest. Especially when you play F1 2015 which, although a great racing game in it's own right, suffers quite badly from slowdown on specific tracks when the rain sets in, and that's nowhere near Pcars physics.

As for the silly notion that "[X game] isn't a sim like [Y game]", that is just a stupid argument that little boys have over their toys. Forza, like GT, is by definition a sim.

People have made up this imaginary genre called "racing sims", where only PC games derived from ISIMotor are regarded as "true sims", and everything else is "simcade". In this world, words like "arcade" are dirty words used to put games down.

A racing simulator, is simply a racing game designed to simulate how a real car behaves, and even one which simulates a car's behaviour poorly is still a bloody simulator. Even the first GT game was a sim, and it's physics wouldn't have been a 10th as complex as Driveclub's, and Driveclub was consistently put down by sim snobs for being "arcade".

You can argue what each sim does well compared to other sims, and which ones don't do certain things so well, but flat out calling some of these games sims, and claiming others aren't sims, based solely on your belief of which ones are more realistic, is just stupid.
 
Yeah I'm surprised it performs as well as it does under so much stress to be honest. Especially when you play F1 2015 which, although a great racing game in it's own right, suffers quite badly from slowdown on specific tracks when the rain sets in, and that's nowhere near Pcars physics.

As for the silly notion that "[X game] isn't a sim like [Y game]", that is just a stupid argument that little boys have over their toys. Forza, like GT, is by definition a sim.

People have made up this imaginary genre called "racing sims", where only PC games derived from ISIMotor are regarded as "true sims", and everything else is "simcade". In this world, words like "arcade" are dirty words used to put games down.

A racing simulator, is simply a racing game designed to simulate how a real car behaves, and even one which simulates a car's behaviour poorly is still a bloody simulator. Even the first GT game was a sim, and it's physics wouldn't have been a 10th as complex as Driveclub's, and Driveclub was consistently put down by sim snobs for being "arcade".

You can argue what each sim does well compared to other sims, and which ones don't do certain things so well, but flat out calling some of these games sims, and claiming others aren't sims, based solely on your belief of which ones are more realistic, is just stupid.


I only used the term arcade for those coin op cabinet games, that was the original meaning of arcade game, coin op games :) Sega Rally is an arcade game, Daytona USA, and even the more realistic sim level Ferrari F355 Challenge ( its coin op ) People would misunderstood that though, how times have changed :P

Simcade, no such word for me :lol:
 
I only used the term arcade for those coin op cabinet games, that was the original meaning of arcade game, coin op games :) Sega Rally is an arcade games, Daytona USA, and even the more realistic sim level Ferrari F355 Challenge ( its coin op ) People would misunderstood that though, how times have changed :P

Simcade, no such word for me :lol:

Yeah very true. I'd still call the type of racing game that is not trying to simulate a real car's dynamics an "arcade racer", but I don't use that term as a put down. There's been a lot of great arcade racing games, and sometimes it's nice to pick up an arcade racer for a quick bash, when you're not in the mood for the super serious racing sims. I quite enjoy The Crew and Tabletop Racers, two excellent arcade racers on my PS4.

If I were to use the word "Simcade" I'd probably apply it to something like Driveclub, which definitely simulates many things, some things, like dynamic time and weather, it simulates better than any serious sim I've ever played. But though it does simulate some things, Evo purposely toned down some other aspects (simplified tyre model) to make the game more fun, which is a more arcade racer way to go about things.

If GTS had the physics depth of Pcars (sans bugs), and the graphics, sounds and dynamic weather and time of Driveclub, I wouldn't care about the lack of singleplayer, I'd buy it anyway.
 
Should i get a PS4 or wait for the PS4K even if i don't have a 4K TV or a VR headset?

Not to be a downer but there's also a third option which is to wait and see whether GTS gets released in November or gets delayed.

I'm only saying this based on the unveiling, after seeing the state the game is in I've seriously started wondering whether they'll make it in time. Good thing about waiting for that though is that you might see a price reduction on Neo if say GTS gets released by Mid 2017.
 
Yeah very true. I'd still call the type of racing game that is not trying to simulate a real car's dynamics an "arcade racer", but I don't use that term as a put down. There's been a lot of great arcade racing games, and sometimes it's nice to pick up an arcade racer for a quick bash, when you're not in the mood for the super serious racing sims. I quite enjoy The Crew and Tabletop Racers, two excellent arcade racers on my PS4.

If I were to use the word "Simcade" I'd probably apply it to something like Driveclub, which definitely simulates many things, some things, like dynamic time and weather, it simulates better than any serious sim I've ever played. But though it does simulate some things, Evo purposely toned down some other aspects (simplified tyre model) to make the game more fun, which is a more arcade racer way to go about things.

If GTS had the physics depth of Pcars (sans bugs), and the graphics, sounds and dynamic weather and time of Driveclub, I wouldn't care about the lack of singleplayer, I'd buy it anyway.

Arcade style basic sim level game :) Where the focus is more on the gaming fun, drop in and play, not necessarily trying to simulate in details. Ridge Racer is one of the best for me. Games like Driveclub would not be out of place if it's released on arcade cabinet and coin op, I bet many would play it to death at the arcades.

I would call arcade style racing games as basic sim like Ridge Racer or Burnout, and PCars or AC as advanced sim :lol: RFactor Pro, professional commercial sim, it's not really a game anymore, there's no game aspect to it, just drive, of course IMHO :)
 
I'll also add that at least 90% of the "true sims" people refer to when putting down Forza and GT games, are based on the exact same 11 year old game engine. At least PD and T10 write their own engines.
 
Yeah I'm surprised it performs as well as it does under so much stress to be honest. Especially when you play F1 2015 which, although a great racing game in it's own right, suffers quite badly from slowdown on specific tracks when the rain sets in, and that's nowhere near Pcars physics.

As for the silly notion that "[X game] isn't a sim like [Y game]", that is just a stupid argument that little boys have over their toys. Forza, like GT, is by definition a sim.

People have made up this imaginary genre called "racing sims", where only PC games derived from ISIMotor are regarded as "true sims", and everything else is "simcade". In this world, words like "arcade" are dirty words used to put games down.

A racing simulator, is simply a racing game designed to simulate how a real car behaves, and even one which simulates a car's behaviour poorly is still a bloody simulator. Even the first GT game was a sim, and it's physics wouldn't have been a 10th as complex as Driveclub's, and Driveclub was consistently put down by sim snobs for being "arcade".

You can argue what each sim does well compared to other sims, and which ones don't do certain things so well, but flat out calling some of these games sims, and claiming others aren't sims, based solely on your belief of which ones are more realistic, is just stupid.

You see, the problem is people are trying to shoehorn these games into discrete labels. The spectrum from arcade to sim is continuous, like a rank from 0-100%. You can subdivide the line into "categories", but even in the same category there will still be games that are more sim than others. Then there's the improvements in computing power from one generation to the next. What was a sim back in 1998 would be simcade right now. Also different people have different driving styles, different expectations of reality, different skill levels and different controllers (keyboard/joystick/wheel) set up different ways and you muddle up the comparison further. No one's gonna argue that NFS is arcade and AC is sim, but comparing which sim is better is not very straightforward.

For me, I divide the spectrum into 7 categories:
Fantasy - WipeOut, Mario Kart, Modnation, Trackmania
Arcade - Outrun, Burnout, Blur, Split/Second, Sega Rally, Ridge Racer
Semi Arcade - NFS, Driveclub, The Crew
Simcade - GRID, DIRT (except Dirt Rally), Codemasters F1 series, NFS Shift, Milestone WRC series, SLRE, GT1/2
Semi Sim - GT3-6, Forza series (excluding Horizon), Ferrari/Supercar Challenge
Simulation - GPL, rFactor 1/2, GTL/GTR2/Race series, LFS, iRacing, Enthusia, PCARS, AC, Raceroom, Automobilista, RBR, Dirt Rally
Real Life - self explanatory

Full grade industrial simulators used by professional race teams in F1 are probably a step above Simulation, but I doubt it's 1:1 with real life yet. Otherwise teams won't bother with real life testing (more expensive, more hassle, more danger, etc).

I'll also add that at least 90% of the "true sims" people refer to when putting down Forza and GT games, are based on the exact same 11 year old game engine. At least PD and T10 write their own engines.

Age and using someone else's engine doesn't make it any less valid. ISImotor is over a decade old and has been used by more than a dozen games but it was way ahead of its time, and it certainly feels more realistic than GT6 still. If you look at Automobilista (basically ISImotor Perfect Version) it can still trade punches with AC on a few aspects of the simulation. It does have limitations though, and has less scope to expand compared to the versatile engine in AC for example.
 
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You see, the problem is people are trying to shoehorn these games into discrete labels. The spectrum from arcade to sim is continuous, like a rank from 0-100%. You can subdivide the line into "categories", but even in the same category there will still be games that are more sim than others. Then there's the improvements in computing power from one generation to the next. What was a sim back in 1998 would be simcade right now. Also different people have different driving styles, different expectations of reality, different skill levels and different controllers (keyboard/joystick/wheel) set up different ways and you muddle up the comparison further. No one's gonna argue that NFS is arcade and AC is sim, but comparing which sim is better is not very straightforward.

For me, I divide the spectrum into 7 categories:
Fantasy - WipeOut, Mario Kart, Modnation, Trackmania
Arcade - Outrun, Burnout, Blur, Split/Second, Sega Rally, Ridge Racer
Semi Arcade - NFS, Driveclub, The Crew
Simcade - GRID, DIRT (except Dirt Rally), Codemasters F1 series, NFS Shift, Milestone WRC series, SLRE, GT1/2
Semi Sim - GT3-6, Forza series (excluding Horizon), Ferrari/Supercar Challenge
Simulation - GPL, rFactor 1/2, GTL/GTR2/Race series, LFS, iRacing, Enthusia, PCARS, AC, Raceroom, Automobilista, RBR, Dirt Rally
Real Life - self explanatory

Full grade industrial simulators used by professional race teams in F1 are probably a step above Simulation, but I doubt it's 1:1 with real life yet. Otherwise teams won't bother with real life testing (more expensive, more hassle, more danger, etc).

See this is just ridiculous. Putting so many labels on games, for no reason other than your own personal opinion on which is more realistic. Again, most of what you call a true simulation is based on the same 11 year old engine. I also seriously doubt you have the relevant data or racing expertise to be able to accurately judge which of those games belong in which of those imaginary categories you've made up.

Based on your post, you also consider Gran Turismo 1 and 2 to be on the same level of realism as all of Codies games from the last two gens (bar Dirt rally), NFS Shift, and SLRE, and more realistic than Driveclub. Absolutely absurd.

Also, the input method used by the player, and their skill level, has absolutely nothing to do with whether a racing game is a simulator or not.

Like I said, you can argue which sim does better or worse than other sims in whatever way you please, but it's just stupid to make up so many sub-genres for sims, based solely on your completely subjective, and wholly uneducated opinion on which is more realistic.
 
How well a game implements an input method is a factor. For example pCARS is horrible with a DS4, no matter what settings I use I just find it frustrating to drive (PS4) and on PC a controller seems no better. Whereas AC drives brilliantly with a DS4, so no matter how good pCARS physics are, they are practically useless if the control method sucks.
 
As long as it has wheels with a body, it can turn, it brake, it can accelerate on the surface/ground, it simulates driving, that's the basic. How much details simulated, how to achieve it, how it looks, that's where the variety of games since DOS days till today varies in level and scope of simulation, accuracy as well as realism in controls and feedback. I remembered playing F1 games on old 486 DX2, under DOS, does that not simulate F1 car, even if only in 2D with keyboard ? People keep mixing up different things, even in arcade cabinet games there is a genre called simulation. F18 Strike Fighter, F355 Challenge, both are categorized as simulation, complete with realistic controls, and before that Sega even made Jet fighter R360 arcade with full rotation pod, harness, and can simulate jet plane cockpit movement. It has shoddy graphics, more like 2D, but it still considered as simulation.

http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=844

This is in 1990 :

r360open.jpg



Maybe sim that often used by people is not simulation in actual meaning ...
 

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