Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[sircarltonlotus]

How do we know tuning is out? Upgrades look like they're out but kaz said you'll be able to set your car up. Maybe we will be able to set our cars up within certain parameters or rules of the class. I'm not sure we know a great deal about tuning other than we can't make a 1000HP road car

 

[dacc10]

How do we know tuning is out? Upgrades look like they're out but kaz said you'll be able to set your car up. Maybe we will be able to set our cars up within certain parameters or rules of the class. I'm not sure we know a great deal about tuning other than we can't make a 1000HP road car

The tuning as we know is out, it it wasn't, they would mention it.
Of course we will be able to set up a car, tweak suspension, transmission, aero, etc. Common sense already told us that, because of the games' nature. The part we are missing, is that non-restricted tuning, where you can tune a car for top speed, 1/4 mile races, etc. We are getting less customization, even if the suspension tuning for example, is more complex.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But this is not true. The game starts with an offline campaign and it also has an offline arcade mode and supports 20 cars on track, so you are not forced online but yes everyone knows online is the main focus of the game and for those who have no interest in online they most likely will not enjoy it as a game. But again we are basing this on a incomplete game that could have more features announced at a later date. Your complaints about online racing are bizarre, you have both official online events and you can create your own, what else would you expect?

It's absolutely true. In spite of your repeated assertions there is no offline Campaign Mode. Sure it's called that in game but if you randomly surveyed a billion GT players and asked them what the offline campaign is in Gran Turismo, a billion of them will say the offline career combined with the license tests and special events. There is no true Campaign Mode in GTSport. The focus of the racing in this game is online and in that sense it's far more limiting than any prior full GT game.

Why are you making stuff up? And when did this become the epic complaining thread, so many people complaining about stuff they imagined but I'm not sure why you would even imagine this next one. "likely put on a track you didn't choose", if you enter the event you know what track you are on because it tells you what track the event is before you enter, it tells you what time the race starts and how long the race is as well. If the race doesn't suit you you don't enter. The matchmaking magic would happen after you enter, if 1000 people enter that race they will be split up into 50 races with each grid matched according to skill and fairness of the drivers. This isn't new stuff, it's been done for years just never on a console. Yes you will be placed with people you don't know after a while you will find that you do tend to bump into some of the same people and you may even strike a friendship born from mutual respect. This is how official online racing works, it isn't some mysterious thing, it is all straightforward.

I didn't quite explain that well enough. In previous GT games, you'd enter lobbies, find people you liked to race with and then vote on tracks and mix things up all night with the same group of people. Now, you're going to race with a group of people and then sit around and wait for the exact same race or you have to leave and enter a completely random other group of people to race with. The social aspect of the game is severely diminished and, unless every car/track combination is represented in the official races, your choices under the matchmaking system will be reduced as well. If you think you're going to run into the same people on a regular basis when there are potentially hundreds of thousands of people online you're dreaming.

The freedom with Sport mode comes with this being the first online racer that lets you decide how you want to race. Do you love to cheat? Do you love to bump and run? Do you love to rub panels? Do you cut corners? Do you try to always drive clean and respect the boundaries of the track? Unlike real life and other online racing services GTS will not punish you for doing it your way, if you love being a wrecker your rating will reflect that and you will be placed with similar drivers where you can all wreck to your hearts content, Kaz said so. If you are a clean and fair driver you will be grouped with similar drivers. Of course the matchmaking will only work if enough people join a race. As for car selection, if you race in Nations Cup what are the restrictions on car selection? I don't know and I'm sure you don't either so again you are making stuff up to worry about. Here is what I can see in the pics, in daily races they are grouped according to classes so if you enter a GR. 3 race obviously you must select a car from Gr. 3 but since this is a PD race and neither Nations or Manufacturers Cup I can't imagine there will be any restriction on the car you select other than it must be from that class.

You've always had the choice of how to race, that is not new. And as far as car selection goes, it's obvious. In previous GT's you could enter any PP lobby and have maybe 100 cars or more in your garage to race with. GTSport is going to be far, far, far more limiting.

Can we both agree that arcade mod is casual racing? As far as online racing goes it only has to be as serious as you want it to be and why would you care about what the other guy thinks. Here is what I do, if it is my fault I say sorry. If the other guy goes crazy mute him. Yes some people go crazy, want a great laugh? Go and watch some Oval iRacing on youtube, the chat is amazing. Do you get easily upset? Just drive with no chat and after the race sort out whatever needs to be sorted using social functions or just let it go, it is your choice. But here is a handy fact, if safety rating or performance rating is implemented well one race wont hurt you, these ratings are an average over time, they go up and down but they settle at the appropriate level. People who don't understand how they work might lose their minds until others explain it to them but you don't even need to think about these to have fun, they are there for matchmaking, their purpose is to put you with the right drivers so after a period of time you will not be with a guy who is going to wreck you. If the System is implemented well you know the guys in your race are just like you and if an accident happens it was bad luck. Here's a fact, if a car loses control in front of you you will cut a corner to avoid hitting him, you will lose a little fairness, who cares? You avoided a crash, the system punished you for being safe and it will not make a difference. The fact is if your rating is going down it is a reflection of you, you can't blame the other guys, you were involved too. All you can do is review the incident ans think about how you can improve.

I don't "care" what the other guy thinks, that's not the point. The point is, in offline racing you don't have to deal with anyone else, just the AI. No one yelling at you like a spoiled little child, no human deliberately running you off the track because you dared to touch them at the start of the race. If you have been around here the last few years you'll see hundreds of comments from people who avoid online racing for these very reasons and more. For them it's anything but casual.

7 million fans deserted GT between 5 and 6. Almost 12 million copies of GT5 sold and less than 5 million copies of GT6 were sold. After that type of market rejection no company comes out with the same thing next time.

Deserted is a harsh word. I'd guess most of them just moved to the PS4 and couldn't be bothered to continue playing PS3 games. Sales of dual platform games from that time indicate that this is so, even with games released right at the launch of the new console. It's dangerous to label it "market rejection" when it may not have been a rejection at all and just bad timing.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

I see, I thought people were under the impression we had no ability to tune.

 

[Tornado]

And even if it was outright market rejection, I'd question the solution of essentially saying "Instead of improving many of the things we did wrong, we'll just take them out. Happy?" Not only are you going to chop down the size of your target market, but when framed in that context it just reads like PD are clueless for why people had issues with their PS3 output; which isn't that surprising I guess since GT6 appeared that way as well in response to GT5. Not to mention how occasionally the post-GT5 pre-GT6 interviews took on a bit of "completely missing the point" as well; though that is somewhat less notable after GT6 revealed that there was seemingly little sincerity in Kaz's frank admittance with some of GT5's problems.



There was a really good game hidden in GT5 that only needed a bit of effort put into pulling it out. It always had performance problems, but there were some very dumb design decisions in there which were minor on their own but piled up until they weren't ignorable. Coupled with the obvious laziness in spots, and you have a bunch of problems which could have been easily corrected to make a GT4-beating game. They even showed that they had the ability to do so without releasing a new game, since they fixed so many major things with GT5 that the minor niggling things they didn't bother with but had just as much of an effect on the game stuck out all the more.
GT6's problem was the 3 year cumulative effort to improve GT5 showed that they still didn't really want to bother, or maybe even still didn't get the problems. They fixed some of the more superficial (albeit still legitimate) problems, padded out the length of the single player without really making it any better, strip mined some of the other problem things rather than fix them at all and made some other ones much worse; then put on the smoke and mirrors routine with all of the amazing partnerships they had.


So if their solution to GT6's reception being even cooler than GT5's is to then throw the baby out with the bathwater entirely...

 

[TexasTyme214]

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turis...sportsmanship-points-detailed/#comment-214410
Jordan finally got around to putting up some interview answers.

I love that the mention flags once again. The yellow flags in the Nurburgring renewal gameplay seemed fake.

I hope the game is really good at determining who is at fault in collisions. You don't want to be stuck with dirty racers when you're the one that keeps getting in crashes outside of your control.

 

[jm79]

I hope the game is really good at determining who is at fault in collisions. You don't want to be stuck with dirty racers when you're the one that keeps getting in crashes outside of your control.

I can't give you a source, but I remember reading that this doesn't happen at all. A collision is simply attributed to both parties. The hope is that while potentially unfair in specific instances, the overall effect will be beneficial.

Though perhaps there will be some kind of appeal/review system in the more important races. I can't see a clearly wrong decision being acceptable in a live Nations Cup final, for example.

 

[ImaRobot]

I can't give you a source, but I remember reading that this doesn't happen at all. A collision is simply attributed to both parties. The hope is that while potentially unfair in specific instances, the overall effect will be beneficial.

Well that just doesn't sound right.

Though perhaps there will be some kind of appeal/review system in the more important races. I can't see a clearly wrong decision being acceptable in a live Nations Cup final, for example.

I can only see something like that happening with some sort of live moderating.

 

[jm79]

Well that just doesn't sound right.

The beneficial effect is that people generally won't want to make any contact, if at all possible.

 

[ColouredBadger]

From reading some comments, it seems to me that a few people here don't want to have a GT without Standard cars, and even more not willing to pay £40 per year for PlayStation Plus.

And now, I'm probably going to upset some people.

The thing about PS Plus is. We live in an age where you get nothing for free. You want to watch TV, you pay a monthly bill. You want Netflix, you pay a monthly subscription. You want internet, you pay monthly for it. We have to pay for EVERYTHING nowadays and it's just how the world is. PSPlus has some great bonuses to it. I have had almost £200's worth of free games in 18 months from my PSPlus subscription. That's £80 for a £200 saving on games. Tropico 3 was £39.99 on PS Store, but free with Playstation Plus. Now, that's a full game paid for with your subscriptions and everything else you do is free from then on (in essence). You might say "But Badger, I don't want these games" and you're right to say so. However, you'll find something you'll want, whether it's savings on DLC for games you do own through PS Plus Discounts, or a game you do eventually want to buy that you have an interest in but don't want to buy it.

I also noticed someone made direct comparison to Xbox Live. Xbox Live charges the same as PS for the same service (well, a little less if you ask me), and it's per account on the Xbox, or at least was when I owned an Xbox 360 (if this has changed, then correct me). PS Plus covers up to 8 accounts on one console, if I remember rightly. So, again, worth the £40 a year.
You also get save file backups to a cloud-like server if your PS should die and you lose everything. Just a quick download and you're off again. There are so many advantages to PS Plus, and for £3.33 per month? It's bugger all.


If people want Standard Cars then I suggest you go buy a PS2 and GT4 because that's where they should stay. We wouldn't be having this argument over standards still in this day-and-age if PD dropped them like they should have in 2005. People need to move on. I like to play games with backwards compatibility (Crash Bandicoot, Abe's Odesee etc) but I play them on their original console (well, with emulators on my laptop). There's nothing wrong with nostalgia, but there comes a point where your nostalgia ruins the enjoyment of everyone who lives in the 2010's and above. Graphically I don't rate pCARS too highly, but if you compare that to Standard Cars then it makes GT a joke. And is that what you want? For Gran Turismo to be a joke against it's competitors in such a contested genre on consoles? I didn't think so.


Cue the quote notifications from people telling me to shut up.
Unless I get 'modded' again for having a conflicting opinion.

Viva la Fronce! xD haha

 

[ImaRobot]

The beneficial effect is that people generally won't want to make any contact, if at all possible.

Yeah, and thats beneficial how? It doesn't stop it from happening, and if it does happen, then the guy that literally did nothing to cause it will be at fault too? Not seeing how that works, to be honest.

 

[PzR Slim]

I love that the mention flags once again. The yellow flags in the Nurburgring renewal gameplay seemed fake.

I hope the game is really good at determining who is at fault in collisions. You don't want to be stuck with dirty racers when you're the one that keeps getting in crashes outside of your control.

I brought this up when we first heard about the 'both parties at fault' rule and was assured that that is how it is in iRacing and it does work. I'm not sure to be honest but at least they are trying something to rectify it.

 

[Aphelion]

Also, if you are a person who crashes into 10 people every match, then you loose 10 crashes worth of points, but others will only loose the amount which they were crashed into. So unless the bad drivers were targeting you, its won't come close to as many points lost as they bad driver. Truly bad drivers will drop ranks far quicker than decent drivers.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well that just doesn't sound right.
I can only see something like that happening with some sort of live moderating.

A no fault system is most likely IMO. You get points for being in a collision either way. It's almost impossible to accurately assign blame in anything but the most obvious circumstances. I would hope that things like running backwards, entering the track unsafely, exiting the pits and not respecting the white lines etc. will be assigned as entirely the fault of the person entering the track or running backwards. It'll be an epic fail if that's not the case IMO. Racing incidents are much harder to determine fault and if there is a way to assign fault it will be able to be gamed and that's not something I think they'll take a chance on.

The key thing is now going to be that you get points towards an overall rating, not penalties in that particular race, so in that sense there's going to be little incentive for dirtier drivers to cause you harm because it'll have no immediate effect on you. Once you've built up a history of competitive races it'll take a lot of incidents to affect your driver rating one way or the other.

 

[PzR Slim]

From reading some comments, it seems to me that a few people here don't want to have a GT without Standard cars, and even more not willing to pay £40 per year for PlayStation Plus.

And now, I'm probably going to upset some people.

The thing about PS Plus is. We live in an age where you get nothing for free. You want to watch TV, you pay a monthly bill. You want Netflix, you pay a monthly subscription. You want internet, you pay monthly for it. We have to pay for EVERYTHING nowadays and it's just how the world is. PSPlus has some great bonuses to it. I have had almost £200's worth of free games in 18 months from my PSPlus subscription. That's £80 for a £200 saving on games. Tropico 3 was £39.99 on PS Store, but free with Playstation Plus. Now, that's a full game paid for with your subscriptions and everything else you do is free from then on (in essence). You might say "But Badger, I don't want these games" and you're right to say so. However, you'll find something you'll want, whether it's savings on DLC for games you do own through PS Plus Discounts, or a game you do eventually want to buy that you have an interest in but don't want to buy it.

I also noticed someone made direct comparison to Xbox Live. Xbox Live charges the same as PS for the same service (well, a little less if you ask me), and it's per account on the Xbox, or at least was when I owned an Xbox 360 (if this has changed, then correct me). PS Plus covers up to 8 accounts on one console, if I remember rightly. So, again, worth the £40 a year.
You also get save file backups to a cloud-like server if your PS should die and you lose everything. Just a quick download and you're off again. There are so many advantages to PS Plus, and for £3.33 per month? It's bugger all.


If people want Standard Cars then I suggest you go buy a PS2 and GT4 because that's where they should stay. We wouldn't be having this argument over standards still in this day-and-age if PD dropped them like they should have in 2005. People need to move on. I like to play games with backwards compatibility (Crash Bandicoot, Abe's Odesee etc) but I play them on their original console (well, with emulators on my laptop). There's nothing wrong with nostalgia, but there comes a point where your nostalgia ruins the enjoyment of everyone who lives in the 2010's and above. Graphically I don't rate pCARS too highly, but if you compare that to Standard Cars then it makes GT a joke. And is that what you want? For Gran Turismo to be a joke against it's competitors in such a contested genre on consoles? I didn't think so.


Cue the quote notifications from people telling me to shut up.
Unless I get 'modded' again for having a conflicting opinion.

Viva la Fronce! xD haha

I think very few people would be happy to see standard cars back. However, I do think many people are unhappy that three years into the PS4's life we have a GT releasing with so few cars. Particularly after being promised that premium cars were future proofed. Many are asking what on earth have they been doing for the past three years.

 

[Aphelion]

A no fault system is most likely IMO. You get points for being in a collision either way. It's almost impossible to accurately assign blame in anything but the most obvious circumstances. I would hope that things like running backwards, entering the track unsafely, exiting the pits and not respecting the white lines etc. will be assigned as entirely the fault of the person entering the track or running backwards. It'll be an epic fail if that's not the case IMO. Racing incidents are much harder to determine fault and if there is a way to assign fault it will be able to be gamed and that's not something I think they'll take a chance on.

The key thing is now going to be that you get points towards an overall rating, not penalties in that particular race, so in that sense there's going to be little incentive for dirtier drivers to cause you harm because it'll have no immediate effect on you. Once you've built up a history of competitive races it'll take a lot of incidents to affect your driver rating one way or the other.

Not to mention the angry comments from 'wrongly' accused people, who were assigned blame when they feel they shouldn't have been. And then the other guy who thinks it was his fault. It just wouldn't work.

 

[ImaRobot]

The thing about PS Plus is. We live in an age where you get nothing for free. You want to watch TV, you pay a monthly bill. You want Netflix, you pay a monthly subscription. You want internet, you pay monthly for it. We have to pay for EVERYTHING nowadays and it's just how the world is. PSPlus has some great bonuses to it. I have had almost £200's worth of free games in 18 months from my PSPlus subscription. That's £80 for a £200 saving on games. Tropico 3 was £39.99 on PS Store, but free with Playstation Plus. Now, that's a full game paid for with your subscriptions and everything else you do is free from then on (in essence). You might say "But Badger, I don't want these games" and you're right to say so. However, you'll find something you'll want, whether it's savings on DLC for games you do own through PS Plus Discounts, or a game you do eventually want to buy that you have an interest in but don't want to buy it.

I think one of the main problem people have with PSPlus, is the fact that it just wasn't needed in the past, and now its forced. It's a tough pill to swallow, especially considering all the flak PS users would give to Xbox about having to pay for subscriptions. Now said people are forced to eat their hat.

I also noticed someone made direct comparison to Xbox Live. Xbox Live charges the same as PS for the same service (well, a little less if you ask me), and it's per account on the Xbox, or at least was when I owned an Xbox 360 (if this has changed, then correct me). PS Plus covers up to 8 accounts on one console, if I remember rightly. So, again, worth the £40 a year.
You also get save file backups to a cloud-like server if your PS should die and you lose everything. Just a quick download and you're off again. There are so many advantages to PS Plus, and for £3.33 per month? It's bugger all.

One Xbox live account will span over every account on that Xbox, I'm fairly positive it covers any and all accounts without limit. As for the cloud, they function the same on both consoles.

A no fault system is most likely IMO. You get points for being in a collision either way. It's almost impossible to accurately assign blame in anything but the most obvious circumstances. I would hope that things like running backwards, entering the track unsafely, exiting the pits and not respecting the white lines etc. will be assigned as entirely the fault of the person entering the track or running backwards. It'll be an epic fail if that's not the case IMO. Racing incidents are much harder to determine fault and if there is a way to assign fault it will be able to be gamed and that's not something I think they'll take a chance on.

My concern is getting points for someone rear ending me

 

[Grandea GTR]

My concern is getting points for someone rear ending me

Enthusia had a system where you can get penalized for someone rear-ending you.

Sure hope something like that doesn't happen with the system used in GTS.

 

[jm79]

I think very few people would be happy to see standard cars back. However, I do think many people are unhappy that three years into the PS4's life we have a GT releasing with so few cars. Particularly after being promised that premium cars were future proofed. Many are asking what on earth have they been doing for the past three years.

"So few"...? It's one hundred and forty cars for crying out loud. At insane level of detail. With a livery editor. Totally fine with this.

Yeah, and thats beneficial how? It doesn't stop it from happening, and if it does happen, then the guy that literally did nothing to cause it will be at fault too? Not seeing how that works, to be honest.

Ummm... Not sure how to elaborate on that point... Penalising collisions means collisions are a bad thing?
The GTP article said it: 'consequence'

 

[PzR Slim]

"So few"...? It's one hundred and forty cars for crying out loud. At insane level of detail. With a livery editor. Totally fine with this.

And FM5 was lambasted by many for a similar number of cars at the release of a new console. 140 cars is not a lot particularly when you realise how much other content and features have been removed compared to past games. You might be totally fine with the bones, no matter which cut of the meat they supported, PDI are throwing you but many people aren't.

 

[Grandea GTR]

Ummm... Not sure how to elaborate on that point... Penalising collisions means collisions are a bad thing?
The GTP article said it: 'consequence'

The thing is, collisions in motorsports in a sense is inevitable, as it happens. Most penalty systems in games, such as Driveclub, penalize the player for collisions when they were not even at fault.

 

[ImaRobot]

Ummm... Not sure how to elaborate on that point... Penalising collisions means collisions are a bad thing?
The GTP article said it: 'consequence'

No, you're not comprehending what I said, I never said penalizing collisions was a bad thing. If a guy is slowing down for a turn and the guy behind him doesnt notice and slams into the back of the guy turning, then the guy in front that literally did nothing wrong is going to be penalized too? That's what I'm hoping not to happen. That is why you're example is not beneficial.

 

[jm79]

And FM5 was lambasted by many for a similar number of cars at the release of a new console. 140 cars is not a lot particularly when you realise how much other content and features have been removed compared to past games. You might be totally fine with the bones, no matter which cut of the meat they supported, PDI are throwing you but many people aren't.

Grisly analogy haha. Let's see if I can beat that....

How many 'corpses' would satisfy your personal morgue?

 

[Johnnypenso]

"So few"...? It's one hundred and forty cars for crying out loud. At insane level of detail. With a livery editor. Totally fine with this.

Ummm... Not sure how to elaborate on that point... Penalising collisions means collisions are a bad thing?
The GTP article said it: 'consequence'

There's already duplication in the list and it's not 140 completely unique cars as we've already seen. More than a 1/4 of the list so far is a single model of car altered to compete in multiple classes.

Collisions are a bad thing but no one enjoys taking penalties for things that aren't there fault. Surely you can understand this.

EDIT:

Grisly analogy haha. Let's see if I can beat that....

How many 'corpses' would satisfy your personal morgue?

Seems you don't understand it at all and think that glib responses are an answer to genuine concerns.

 

[ColouredBadger]

I think very few people would be happy to see standard cars back. However, I do think many people are unhappy that three years into the PS4's life we have a GT releasing with so few cars. Particularly after being promised that premium cars were future proofed. Many are asking what on earth have they been doing for the past three years.

They were still making assets up until 2013/14 for GT6, so I'd imagine half the team was working on GT6 with it's updates etc. But, I agree. The car count is very low, and I honestly think they've been spending a lot of time putting needless detail into the cars. Does it matter if the 'S' on Aston Martin is perfectly rounded on the wheel nut? No. But PD think it's important. They spent 6 months making each Super-Premium car for GT6. It wouldn't surprise me if it's taking 12 months for these. I also think it's because a damage model has been created (supposedly). I remember Kaz saying there was a system but it wasn't in the game yet, or something. But I dunno. I was expecting 200 cars, and I'd have been happy with 200 too.



@ImaRobot . That's very true. It is a bitter pill to swallow. But National Service and Enrolment was forced upon people from 1939 to 1945 to join the Armed Forces. Doesn't mean we still have to keep doing it. Times change, and things move on. People need to move on to.

And regarding the Xbox Live statement. Fair enough, I wasn't 100% sure on that. Was just going off what it was like when I had a 360.

 

[scholesy1899]

Awesome post but one question, why does your custom car collecting game need to be created by PD? There are some awesome ones out there already, treat sims like Pokemon, it is more fun. By the way did you know Kaz said that they are not trying to compete with GT, they are trying to compliment?

It doesn't have to be made by PD, but they have a good track record of making games that talk to ME, don't know any other game that has so many cars and just the pure quirkiness distilled within.

You seem to think you know how I game or how I should game (this is a theme) better than I do!

I spent 5 years running a DFGT/G27 up until last year. Forearmed with the knowledge that if I wanted to continue console racing (I don't want a gaming PC) I would need to upgrade most of my hardware and peripherals.

This wasn't a hard decision as I knew I would have at least 4-5 titles to race on PS4 this year. I have 2, eagerly awaiting another 3 now.

This is my rig for hopefully the lifetime of the PS4:



Up until I suffered Kubica level hand injuries recently, I was taking part in CRAP DiRT Rally online events and had been doing ESL racing with Project Cars every Sunday.

So please don't categorise me as a one franchise man when you know nothing about me. I eat up as many games as I can, I'm not a fanboy I'm a grown man.

I am very hyped for Sport. I will love it if it Jordan's recent interview about the system pans out like iRating (or even better)

But I don't need you to keep telling me and us, at great length, so much so that most are now not reading your points that it's the be all and end all of the GT franchise for the foreseeable.

And to your question.....GTSport will compliment what GT? Maybe the one I would still like after Sport has run its race?

I wouldn't mind having 2 types of GT in the future.

No one knows if this will be the model PD follow from here on out. You could at least start your long winded posts with 'I speculate that......' And not use Kaz's dreamy musings or use market spiel verbatim.

 

[jm79]

No, you're not comprehending what I said, I never said penalizing collisions was a bad thing. If a guy is slowing down for a turn and the guy behind him doesnt notice and slams into the back of the guy turning, than the guy in front that literally did nothing wrong is going to be penalized too? That's what I'm hoping not to happen.

Collisions are a bad thing but no one enjoys taking penalties for things that aren't there fault. Surely you can understand this.

I wouldn't enjoy it either. But it has to happen.

That's what I'm saying. To make this at all workable they have to do this. Otherwise they would have to employ a few thousand virtual incident stewards to make sure everyone wasn't displeased.

In general, a penalty system for collisions generally makes them less likely to occur.

Also, as @Chameleon said:

if you are a person who crashes into 10 people every match, then you loose 10 crashes worth of points, but others will only loose the amount which they were crashed into. So unless the bad drivers were targeting you, its won't come close to as many points lost as they bad driver. Truly bad drivers will drop ranks far quicker than decent drivers.

 

[PzR Slim]

Grisly analogy haha. Let's see if I can beat that....

How many 'corpses' would satisfy your personal morgue?

I think you slightly misunderstand my point.

As for how many cars would be acceptable to me. I think 200 truly unique cars with more duplicates would be acceptable for a total somewhere in the region of 300 cars.

 

[dacc10]

"So few"...? It's one hundred and forty cars for crying out loud. At insane level of detail. With a livery editor. Totally fine with this.

Still, for those 140 cars, probably not a single one is a classic, not a single one is a 80's/90'/early 2000's JDM, probably not a single one is a touring car, not a single one is a Group C car, not one Super GT car, neither V8 supercars, neither open wheelers, neither old muscle cars, old and not so old sport/supersport/supercars, hot hatchbacks, and so on. There's a lot missing, and I'm not talking about what we had as Standard cars, I'm talking about the favorite cars for some people, favorite classes, favorite classics. Those who loved something different, can't have it in any way, shape or form. The only fact is, as of now, the car list, although big enough, lacks variety.

 

[ImaRobot]

I wouldn't enjoy it either. But it has to happen.

No, it doesn't. If its going to revolve around getting penalized for things you aren't even doing, than that's not a good system. Hopefully this isn't the case here, but what you're suggesting just doesn't sit right.

That's what I'm saying. To make this at all workable they have to do this. Otherwise they would have to employ a few thousand virtual incident stewards to make sure everyone wasn't displeased.

That's hardly considered making it workable. This is what they wanted to set-up, so the least they can do is try to make it as intuitive as possible. If that's the route, why bother? Things will be getting penalized whether you're at fault or not, so it seems pretty useless if that's the route that you'd like for it to take.

In general, a penalty system for collisions generally makes them less likely to occur.

For the ones doing it intentionally(to a certain degree). That is not going to stop accidents in any way whatsoever.

I'm all for a penalty system, but not for getting points for things that are in no way my fault.