Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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Still, for those 140 cars, probably not a single one is a classic, not a single one is a 80's/90'/early 2000's JDM, probably not a single one is a touring car, not a single one is a Group C car, not one Super GT car, neither V8 supercars, neither open wheelers, neither old muscle cars, old and not so old sport/supersport/supercars, hot hatchbacks, and so on. There's a lot missing, and I'm not talking about what we had as Standard cars, I'm talking about the favorite cars for some people, favorite classes, favorite classics. Those who loved something different, can't have it in any way, shape or form. The only fact is, as of now, the car list, although big enough, lacks variety.

Yeah I agree, though we don't know every car yet (do we?). Also, I'm happy to pay for DLC to get more stuff, I know some aren't so keen, and that's fair.

Though in the article below, it's strongly suggested that (at least in part) they picked the cars most people statistically prefer driving the most...

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turis...hmaking-system-sportsmanship-points-detailed/

Edit:

Also, @ImaRobot

I'm all for a penalty system, but not for getting points for things that are in no way my fault.

...How would you solve the problem?
 
No, it doesn't. If its going to revolve around getting penalized for things you aren't even doing, than that's not a good system. Hopefully this isn't the case here, but what you're suggesting just doesn't sit right.


That's hardly considered making it workable. This is what they wanted to set-up, so the least they can do is try to make it as intuitive as possible. If that's the route, why bother? Things will be getting penalized whether you're at fault or not, so it seems pretty useless if that's the route that you'd like for it to take.


For the ones doing it intentionally(to a certain degree). That is not going to stop accidents in any way whatsoever.

I'm all for a penalty system, but not for getting points for things that are in no way my fault.


The thing is iRacings iRating can't even get round that, and that's PC master race game. You have to swallow it, but it should even out in the long run.
Hopefully this system can do at least the same.
 
The thing is iRacings iRating can't even get round that, and that's PC master race game.
Not seeing why, when a penalty system is likely not something that would be restricted by hardware, but rather the rules implemented. Sure, it would be hard to judge each and every occasion. What if someone got brake checked, resulting in a rear end collision? Either way, by the time you get situated into your class and ranking, you shouldn't be encountering something like that if you're with like minded racers.

Question though, for anyone that can answer. Is this stat system and matchmaking only going to be for those sanctioned races?
 
What if someone got brake checked, resulting in a rear end collision? Either way, by the time you get situated into your class and ranking, you shouldn't be encountering something like that if you're with like minded racers.

A point against both of you I guess. Yeah that's what we all want isn't it.

In sport mode I believe, not just the M cup or N cup. On the menus their is an online tab separate to that for normal lobby, don't know if your rating would be used there. Suppose you could make rating a lobby setting.
 
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No, Kyle, that is not my problem, and I will amplify below.

Considering how quick you were to falsely attribute a quote to @Samus – while quoting the post itself – I think it really is a problem.
  • Another example, where you suggested a double standard is enforced at GTPlanet (despite zero evidence to back up the claim), because people had a different opinion to your own.
  • Another example, where you determined an arbitrary sales figure was a genre-wide, champagne-popping goal, and did not understand the issue with that.
  • Another example, where you got "your opinion should be silenced" by others posting their own. Where you took my suggestion that the Honda Element won't be missed by many as me not being aware of the Standards roster.
  • Another example, where you misunderstood someone pointing out the "affordable" cars you love of the 90's were anything but, and somehow took it as them suggesting they could afford Italian exotics. As a funny aside, the tail end of this post, and what you want from the next GT game, is a particularly accurate bit of foreshadowing.
  • Another example, more recent than the others. When told responding to others' differing opinions with insults is rude, you resort to... yep, you guessed it, an insult.
That is not what I said and you full well know it. I'd quote my original post, but you know what's in it.

Here, I'll do it for you:

RUF works marvelously as a Porsche stunt double because... well, it is a remanged Porsche and all.

If Porsche will now be free as a bird to let gaming companies license their marquee rides, that would be splendid. But with RUF around to provide a chassis for both street and racing machines, the situation really isn't such a big deal. Depending on the car, because of course there are historic Porsches, but that's a different story.

We could argue over what the meaning of the made-up word is, I suppose.

My original post on the subject (which wasn't even a response to you, it should be noted):

While I absolutely agree RUF is in no way a replacement for Porsche proper - and the suggestion that it is is laughable - considering we've seen over half the car lineup of GT Sport and the oldest car is an '09 Evora, I doubt the vast history of Porsche would be properly represented anyway. Modern road/race cars only, it seems.

While the 919 definitely would be missed, RUF can most certainly provide a suitable Group 3 contender, especially since Polyphony have no qualms making cars up for the class. A Group B car could be done as well, and maybe something for the higher road car classes too.

I almost would rather Porsche be saved for GT7 than made to fit in the focus of GT Sport. There's simply too much to cover!

Right there, I've essentially said the same thing as you: that, sure, if people want a modern-911-shaped Group 3 competitor, a made-up RUF one would work, and hardly seem out of the norm for GT Sport, considering a rather large chunk of the known car lineup is made-up race cars.

You then took issue with the first sentence of that post – seemingly ignoring the rest of it – where I quite clearly stated I don't see Ruf as a replacement for all of Porsche. The rest of the post should drive that home.

As usual, you have to twist my meaning into something I never said. We could have had something as a discussion if you had simply left it at that middle part. But no, you had to go and turn a post that states how nice it is to have RUF in a racing game because the alternative is NOTHING, into "Who needs Porsche while we have RUF? 919 LMP? Pah, we have a remanufactured Carrera, a remanged 911, a redone 997, a Yellow Bird makeover..."

Twist the meaning? Like suggesting Ruf is unworthy of consideration in Porsche's legacy? "Cheap substitutes"?

And your original post wasn't about how having Ruf in a racing game is better than nothing. It was about how, and I quote here, it 'works marvelously as a Porsche stunt double'.

I could see a misunderstanding if english wasn't your primary language. But it is. Stuff like this is rather like trolling, and is not behavior I expect from a mod.

Using words as they're meant to be used is not trolling. Consistently misrepresenting peoples' quotes, or resorting to insults when they don't share your opinion, is. You'd think a recent warning from the staff would be enough to clue you in.

So, for the final time: I like Ruf. I like Porsche. I fully believe the former is in no way a stand-in for the latter, and if anything, I find it unfortunate that so many look at it as simply a Porsche alternative when the license isn't available, instead of its own, unique, fascinating marque. I hope recent events regarding Porsche in the sim world means they're finally going to be available to all games, but I think GT Sport's focus on new cars only (so far) would lessen the impact of the marque if it were to be included in the game.
 
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Yeah I agree, though we don't know every car yet (do we?). Also, I'm happy to pay for DLC to get more stuff, I know some aren't so keen, and that's fair.

Though in the article below, it's strongly suggested that (at least in part) they picked the cars most people statistically prefer driving the most...

DLCs are always welcome, but I doubt they will give us a completely new class of cars.
No, we don't know the full list, but what are the chances of the rest of the list being fulfilled with more variety? Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't look lite it will happen.

Where does it say that? And statistically based on what?
 
DLCs are always welcome, but I doubt they will give us a completely new class of cars.
No, we don't know the full list, but what are the chances of the rest of the list being fulfilled with more variety? Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't look lite it will happen.

Where does it say that? And statistically based on what?

I was thinking of something like the following:

A classic Grand Prix DLC with a fake GTS-style championship?
Or perhaps an E-Prix DLC with a similar structure? (FM do this already right?)

(Also, must have been thinking of somewhere else where that quote came from, sorry. I'll try and find it!)
 
Yeah I agree, though we don't know every car yet (do we?). Also, I'm happy to pay for DLC to get more stuff, I know some aren't so keen, and that's fair.

Me too, provided it's worth it (IMO, of course). The nice thing about optional, paid DLC is if it's not to your liking, you can just ignore it. I'm curious to see how GTS' DLC plan pans out, if they further bolster the existing classes, or theme each DLC release around a new style of class. I'm not sure which is better...

I was thinking of something like the following:

A classic Grand Prix DLC with a fake GTS-style championship?
Or perhaps an E-Prix DLC with a similar structure? (FM do this already right?)

Sort of. FM6 has two expansions (Porsche and NASCAR), and they both came with their own career modes and online hoppers/events. The regular monthly car packs don't tend to follow a theme, they just take a shotgun approach to further filling the car lineup.

Ironically, the Porsche career is arguably better-structured than the middling vanilla game's! I've yet to try the NASCAR one, but I've heard similar comments.

Question though, for anyone that can answer. Is this stat system and matchmaking only going to be for those sanctioned races?

From my understanding, it'll follow you across GTS, but it won't affect you opening private lobbies or playing with friends.

It's an interesting approach. Not very surprising they'd model it after iRacing's, as it's a good balance of simplicity and results, IMO. I'm wondering how it will be weighted, since there's far more to decrease your score than there is to increase. I'm also curious about the speed-based classing, and how its determined. It'd require a lot more work, but I hope it's dynamic, taking into account all players, and shuffling on something like a weekly/monthly basis. I don't want to be locked into a higher class after doing a few good races, only to then be outclassed once all the aliens settle in. :P
 
I was wondering what will happen to dirty lobbies if the driver rating system affects our matchmaking ratio? I hope it is limited to Sport Mode and won't come in to custom p2p lobbies. I like a ramming fix when I'm bored after racing cleanly and with GT bumper car physics it's a lot of fun.
 
I was wondering what will happen to dirty lobbies if the driver rating system affects our matchmaking ratio? I hope it is limited to Sport Mode and won't come in to custom p2p lobbies. I like a ramming fix when I'm bored after racing cleanly and with GT bumper car physics it's a lot of fun.
I really, really hope it applies to all modes. If you want to drive like an idiot, save it for offline.
 
I was wondering what will happen to dirty lobbies if the driver rating system affects our matchmaking ratio? I hope it is limited to Sport Mode and won't come in to custom p2p lobbies. I like a ramming fix when I'm bored after racing cleanly and with GT bumper car physics it's a lot of fun.

That's a good point. If people are able to create private lobbies, it could be argued that their scores shouldn't be affected by what they do in them.

Or, at the least, the host should have the option to say whether they are or not. If people are running their own custom championships via private rooms, for instance, they'd probably want that hard work to be reflected in their safety and speed ratings.
 
You aren't really that myopic are you?
I guess I am. I'm just really, really tired of trying to be a nice dude online and getting slammed off by idiots who only want to crash and be dirty.

But, if PD pulls this off correctly, then dirty drivers will be lumped in with other dirty drivers so they can have their fun, and people like me get to do as much clean racing as we want. I guess that's a win-win. :)
 
I guess I am. I'm just really, really tired of trying to be a nice dude online and getting slammed off by idiots who only want to crash and be dirty.

But, if PD pulls this off correctly, then dirty drivers will be lumped in with other dirty drivers so they can have their fun, and people like me get to do as much clean racing as we want. I guess that's a win-win. :)
Yes, but like mentioned, some people like to host lobbies that aren't really structured around racing. This can produce undesirable results. They shouldn't be penalized for trying to have side-fun, and it should no way reflect on their player rating.
 
I guess I am. I'm just really, really tired of trying to be a nice dude online and getting slammed off by idiots who only want to crash and be dirty.

But, if PD pulls this off correctly, then dirty drivers will be lumped in with other dirty drivers so they can have their fun, and people like me get to do as much clean racing as we want. I guess that's a win-win. :)

I tried a couple online matches here and there on GT5 and GT6, and for the most part, I have to agree with you. Going to slow? Get bumped off the road. Try to block legally? Get punted at the next corner.

If PDI pulls this system off, online can be blast, even if I never win a race.
 
I hear there is going to be no rally/off road in the game, For me a that's a big thumbs up.
I hope and prey for it but haven't seen any info anywhere as if it has a difficulty slider.
Lets hope they forget gt6 and make it like gt3 or gt4 with better cars and please please let it be awesome.
Before I buy I will have to borrow a copy and have a go and hope it is awesome in gameplay and in VR mode.
I know I will end up getting the VR set up so lets hope this game makes the purchase worth it.
And from a personal view I don't want nascar never got on with it.
tinfoil.gif
 
Woohoo, something new to discuss. :)

I've been trying to get my head around this for a while.
Nice to see a few new details.

We knew of 'Driver Class' and 'Sportmanship Points', and also the 'Level' from the profile image.
Good to get some info. regarding how those first two are scored.
And I'm assuming the 'driver rating' Jordan mentions in his news article is the 'Level' value.

I was wondering what will happen to dirty lobbies if the driver rating system affects our matchmaking ratio? I hope it is limited to Sport Mode and won't come in to custom p2p lobbies. I like a ramming fix when I'm bored after racing cleanly and with GT bumper car physics it's a lot of fun.

I would put my money on it being limited to Sports Mode.
Match-making is really only needed for the Daily Races, Special Championships, and FIA Cup events.
The GT website makes a brief mention of it.
"Introducing a sportsmanship point system evaluating online race behaviour, a player’s skill and behaviour will be judged in daily races, and players with the same level will be matched in a fair manner."
http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gtsport/sport_mode/

My guess is Online Mode lobbies are open slather and won't effect your score.
But perhaps they will give us the option to set a minimum 'Level' to join the room, if you wish to have your room run that way.


@Johnnypenso
That clip you mentioned in the news article regarding notification was from the latest Inside Sim Racing video.
 
I hear there is going to be no rally/off road in the game, For me a that's a big thumbs up.
I hope and prey for it but haven't seen any info anywhere as if it has a difficulty slider.
Lets hope they forget gt6 and make it like gt3 or gt4 with better cars and please please let it be awesome.
Before I buy I will have to borrow a copy and have a go and hope it is awesome in gameplay and in VR mode.
I know I will end up getting the VR set up so lets hope this game makes the purchase worth it.
And from a personal view I don't want nascar never got on with it.
tinfoil.gif
I would say that you're going to be in for a little disappointment then. There are rally cars and tracks confirmed and, while there is AI and three levels of difficulty so far, there is no traditional Gran Turismo offline career mode to use them in. It's about as far away from GT3/4 as you can get really.
 
And even if it was outright market rejection, I'd question the solution of essentially saying "Instead of improving many of the things we did wrong, we'll just take them out. Happy?" Not only are you going to chop down the size of your target market, but when framed in that context it just reads like PD are clueless for why people had issues with their PS3 output; which isn't that surprising I guess since GT6 appeared that way as well in response to GT5. Not to mention how occasionally the post-GT5 pre-GT6 interviews took on a bit of "completely missing the point" as well; though that is somewhat less notable after GT6 revealed that there was seemingly little sincerity in Kaz's frank admittance with some of GT5's problems.



There was a really good game hidden in GT5 that only needed a bit of effort put into pulling it out. It always had performance problems, but there were some very dumb design decisions in there which were minor on their own but piled up until they weren't ignorable. Coupled with the obvious laziness in spots, and you have a bunch of problems which could have been easily corrected to make a GT4-beating game. They even showed that they had the ability to do so without releasing a new game, since they fixed so many major things with GT5 that the minor niggling things they didn't bother with but had just as much of an effect on the game stuck out all the more.
GT6's problem was the 3 year cumulative effort to improve GT5 showed that they still didn't really want to bother, or maybe even still didn't get the problems. They fixed some of the more superficial (albeit still legitimate) problems, padded out the length of the single player without really making it any better, strip mined some of the other problem things rather than fix them at all and made some other ones much worse; then put on the smoke and mirrors routine with all of the amazing partnerships they had.


So if their solution to GT6's reception being even cooler than GT5's is to then throw the baby out with the bathwater entirely...

Reading this reminds me so much of the pure madness that went on during GT5's life span, like the poor way the DLC was initially handled, GT5's badly designed single player causing people to abuse the gifting system (and the ensuing meltdown here once PD restricted it) so they could get the cars they wanted in a timely manner, and of course, the infamous SSR7 money glitch.



I hope PD never forgets these incidents when making games from now on, because I sure didn't. Here's hoping things in GT Sport go smoothly. :lol:
 

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