Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Samus]

I get the feeling the disdain for this guy does not originate from his laptime.



Well to be fair, neither does Goodwood. In fact, you can't even select it outside time trails or that event offline.

Right, but it is tiny. My point was modelling IOM would be an absolutely mammoth task considering its limited usage and lack of 4 wheel history.

 

[dance1211]

Right, but it is tiny. My point was modelling IOM would be an absolutely mammoth task considering its limited usage and lack of 4 wheel history.

That's why video games exist so racing on it will actually be possible.

 

[dimassa19]

Right, but it is tiny. My point was modelling IOM would be an absolutely mammoth task considering its limited usage and lack of 4 wheel history.

Isle of Man? Tourist Trophy 2 [i think]

 

[AudiMan2011]

I can't see IoM being in GTS. A more realistic scenario would be to see it in GT7 as a special event in either a sort of similar vein to the Sierra Rally in GT6 or as an event to allow players to "recreate" the TT car lap record with that Subaru.

That's the way I see it by trying to think what PD would do.

 

[Samus]

That's why video games exist so racing on it will actually be possible.

How, by modelling it inaccurately so it is twice the width?

 

[GranTurismo guy]

How, by modelling it inaccurately so it is twice the width?

Time trial? Not all Motorsport is racing.

Either way if you're expecting sound logic, you're looking at the wrong developers.

 

[TayeezSA]

So lemme get this straight, GT Sports offline 117 events is really just license mode or GT4 Prologue type stuff?

 

[Johnnypenso]

So lemme get this straight, GT Sports offline 117 events is really just license mode or GT4 Prologue type stuff?

The Campaign looks like it's entirely based around driver training and preparing for online racing.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

My guess would be that it's been heavily de-powered to rein in it's top speed.
And so the big drop in power also meant a big drop in weight to keep it competitive.

No dice. I don't think there is any modification you could do to that street car to get it to 980 kgs. The only thing that would do that is a complete build of a race car from the ground up and the creation of a shell to go over it that looks like the street car.

It's pretty obvious that there is going to be some fudging going on with the numbers for BoP purposes. The aero numbers of non-race cars wouldn't approach purpose built race cars either but it'll have to in order to compete.

No dice you say.

Well originally I thought the seemingly 'equal' top speed when watching the cars run down the long straight at the 'ring after slip-streaming was a sign of altered aero physics.
But I'm beginning to think now that it's simply because the cars are Bop'd to similar top speeds.
Hence my comment.

The Bugatti is a race car, so I'm not sure the 980kgs is that wild a figure.
It's probably just as tough to get the 1650BHP engine down to 621.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No dice you say.

Well originally I thought the seemingly 'equal' top speed when watching the cars run down the long straight at the 'ring after slip-streaming was a sign of altered aero physics.
But I'm beginning to think now that it's simply because the cars are Bop'd to similar top speeds.
Hence my comment.

The Bugatti is a race car, so I'm not sure the 980kgs is that wild a figure.
It's probably just as tough to get the 1650BHP engine down to 621.

I think the race you're referring to from Copperbox had more to do with boost than anything else. The cars had no trouble making up gaps of a second or two but all of a sudden they are the exact same top speed when they are running down the straight at the end of the race.

I haven't seen the interior of the Bugatti. Does it look like a purpose built race car with a full roll cage or is it still the stock interior?

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I think the race you're referring to from Copperbox had more to do with boost than anything else. The cars had no trouble making up gaps of a second or two but all of a sudden they are the exact same top speed when they are running down the straight at the end of the race.

I haven't seen the interior of the Bugatti. Does it look like a purpose built race car with a full roll cage or is it still the stock interior?

Yes, the Copperbox race is the one.
There were some small differences in top speed, with a few cars successfully making the pass.
I remember the 458 fighting the 4C though and thought the Ferrari struggled and even may have hit the rev limiter at one stage.
But it could well be boost too.
I guess the obvious thing was that no car destroyed any other on the straight.
Which is a little unusual considering the various different types of cars doing battle.
Why, I can only guess.

The Bugatti.
I think I've seen the interior, but wouldn't know where to start looking for it.
From memory though I think it's quite a lush, full interior.
I recall it showing a map of La Sarthe on one of the displays.
Perhaps I'm confusing it with another car, but I don't think it's a stripped out bare-bones interior as you are questioning.

There are some details of the car on the GT website though.
So I took the lead from there.

"The virtual race car was developed in close collaboration with the Bugatti engineers and is based on modern racing technology and aerodynamic analyses. To attain the performance goals, the Bugatti Vision Gran Turismo is driven by a W16 engine, which delivers the engine power of 1,230 kW (1,650 BHP) and 1,580 Nm (161.1 mkgf) to all four wheels. The engineers have calculated that the Bugatti Vision Gran Turismo can drive at over 400 km/h (250 mph) on four sections of the virtual Le Mans track reaching an overall max speed of 447.59 km/h (278 mph).

The Bugatti Vision Gran Turismo is the ultimate race car, and at the same time a true Bugatti."
http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/vgt/bugatti/


Make of that what you will I guess.

 

[Samus]

Time trial? Not all Motorsport is racing.

Either way if you're expecting sound logic, you're looking at the wrong developers.

You're right but you have to weigh up the value against the dev time. Would it be worth PD spending several years creating a detailed huge track that then only has limited usage in the game? To me the answer is no. Don't get me wrong, it'd be a fun track to drive but not at expense of 5, maybe 10 other tracks that would be more multi purpose.

 

[Adam41]

Impressions? How did it feel? 1:11 seems a bit quick for that car but I don't think there is any real world comparison beyond Mansell's 1:09.

It feels good. I think there could be something to deter people from using the grass on an inside of the corner though, but I know a few games struggle with this. A lot of the drivers seemed to like it. A definite improvement over GT6.

I noticed a few small improvements from the Copperbox. The tyre noise seemed turned down a little. And comfort tyres sound awesome.

@FrzGT @jm79 Fittipaldi's son set a 1:19, he's a karting champion in the US.

 

[Griffith500]

Pikes Peak to me would be reasonable because despite it's relatively long length there isn't a lot of detail to it, it's mostly just trees and mountain texture. Isle of Man however, I would not understand in the slightest if PD themselves have decided to map out half the Island in detail, the track passes through several villages full of buildings and other intricate detail. It would take forever, all for a track with a) has next to zero history with cars and b) isn't wide enough to actually race cars on.

I've come to the conclusion that they can automate a lot of it with video capture, as I described in another thread, and as was discussed in the news article about the "Blackbird" - it's called photogrammetry.

Ronda, I suspect, was an example of such an approach, possibly along with Zahara. They were reported to have taken a lot of aerial photographs, and they've been videoing trips 'round the Nordschleife for years. The same approach would work well for any location.

 

[MMX]

You're right but you have to weigh up the value against the dev time. Would it be worth PD spending several years creating a detailed huge track that then only has limited usage in the game? To me the answer is no. Don't get me wrong, it'd be a fun track to drive but not at expense of 5, maybe 10 other tracks that would be more multi purpose.

We're talking about the same people that created a few events on the moon, that could be done in just a few minutes, with no use afterwards. Logical thinking is not PD's strong suit.

 

[Mike_grpA]

The Bugatti is a race car, so I'm not sure the 980kgs is that wild a figure.
It's probably just as tough to get the 1650BHP engine down to 621.

Hold on, that Bugatti weighs 980kg? There's no way that's possible in the real world. The Bugatti W16 engine weighs around 400kg on it's own, so when you consider the addition of the heavy-duty 4WD drivetrain and the excessive cooling the engine requires, that would leave next to no headroom for the chassis, body, suspension, wheels, interior, etc. There's just no way that would be possible. A 1.6l turbo F1 engine weighs less than 150kg, and despite this, teams struggle to get their cars down to the 700kg minimum weight limit, and that's a car designed to be as light as possible, with barely enough room for the driver, no interior bar a bare cabon seat and a steering wheel, and made entirely from composites.

 

[Brend]

I wonder how long it will take for you to be FIA-Certified and thus able to enter the FIA Online Championship. You'd think the tests would be pretty extensive, also reading material by the looks of it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It feels good. I think there could be something to deter people from using the grass on an inside of the corner though, but I know a few games struggle with this. A lot of the drivers seemed to like it. A definite improvement over GT6.

I noticed a few small improvements from the Copperbox. The tyre noise seemed turned down a little. And comfort tyres sound awesome.

@FrzGT @jm79 Fittipaldi's son set a 1:19, he's a karting champion in the US.

Thanks for the feedback:tup: You mean 1:09 right?

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Hold on, that Bugatti weighs 980kg? There's no way that's possible in the real world. The Bugatti W16 engine weighs around 400kg on it's own, so when you consider the addition of the heavy-duty 4WD drivetrain and the excessive cooling the engine requires, that would leave next to no headroom for the chassis, body, suspension, wheels, interior, etc. There's just no way that would be possible. A 1.6l turbo F1 engine weighs less than 150kg, and despite this, teams struggle to get their cars down to the 700kg minimum weight limit, and that's a car designed to be as light as possible, with barely enough room for the driver, no interior bar a bare cabon seat and a steering wheel, and made entirely from composites.

Future technologies!!

The Chiron VGT is obviously made of a potent cocktail of negative matter and unobtanium

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Hold on, that Bugatti weighs 980kg? There's no way that's possible in the real world. The Bugatti W16 engine weighs around 400kg on it's own, so when you consider the addition of the heavy-duty 4WD drivetrain and the excessive cooling the engine requires, that would leave next to no headroom for the chassis, body, suspension, wheels, interior, etc. There's just no way that would be possible. A 1.6l turbo F1 engine weighs less than 150kg, and despite this, teams struggle to get their cars down to the 700kg minimum weight limit, and that's a car designed to be as light as possible, with barely enough room for the driver, no interior bar a bare cabon seat and a steering wheel, and made entirely from composites.

Well according the the chart on page 619 it does.
At least, so far as the Gr. 1 version of it anyway, if the chart is to be believed.
I don't believe the 'true' weight has ever been revealed.

But hey the SRT GT-S, with it's 7.0l V10, weighs 663 kgs.
You know, fantasy cars and all that.

 

[dacc10]

I haven't seen the interior of the Bugatti. Does it look like a purpose built race car with a full roll cage or is it still the stock interior?

This is the best I can get you from the interior of the Bugatti. 4:26

 

[Tired Tyres]

So lemme get this straight, GT Sports offline 117 events is really just license mode or GT4 Prologue type stuff?

Think if it as the licence hall from GT4 or GT5. Then nothing else to do except trade the game in if you don't race online.

 

[dacc10]

Think if it as the licence hall from GT4 or GT5. Then nothing else to do except trade the game in if you don't race online.

Let's not jump into conclusions yet...

 

[7HO]

Arcade is offline.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Well according the the chart on page 619 it does.
At least, so far as the Gr. 1 version of it anyway, if the chart is to be believed.
I don't believe the 'true' weight has ever been revealed.

But hey the SRT GT-S, with it's 7.0l V10, weighs 663 kgs.
You know, fantasy cars and all that.

Yeah I know it's just a fantasy car, and I'd have expected unrealistic specs in some of the GT6 VGTs, but it's just surprised me that the specs are so far away from anything close to reality, considering the whole emphasis on realistic racing and the FIA championships and all that.

Considering the engine, dry, by itself, weighs 400kg, you can imagine what it would weigh when in a car, when you add an exhaust system and an intake, both of which have to connect to four turbochargers, plus the piping for the radiators (assuming it uses the same layout of ten radiators the Veyron uses. You could eliminate one if it doesn't run AC, still leaving nine radiators), plus the weight of so much coolant and oil, plus the weight of a 7 speed DSG, the three diffs of the awd system, and the shaft to the front diff. Then think about the miles and miles of wiring such a complex engine and drivetrain would require just to run. Once you add all of that up, I would be surprised if the weight was under 700kgs, and that's just the engine and drivetrain, and everything they require to run. The chassis and body on top of that would weigh a bare minimum of 800kgs in stripped out race trim, and with composites being used everywhere possible.

I would be mighty surprised if that car could legitimately be built to weigh less than 1600kgs. The Veyron already used tons of composites and other lightweight materials everywhere they could, to keep the weight below 2 tons, and in the end it weighs in at a shade under 1900kgs.

 

[Tornado]

But hey the SRT GT-S, with it's 7.0l V10, weighs 663 kgs.
You know, fantasy cars and all that.

I don't think you'll get many people who think that is any less stupid, but one can at least guess that that V10 isn't outrageously different from the Viper V10, which is nearly half as heavy as the Veyron engine.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

That's all well and good, and of course you are free to express your opinion.

'Realistic racing'.
What is that?
If there is a dominant car in the field then racing is unfair.
Does de-tuning that 'real' race car so it is no longer dominant still constitute realistic racing?
Or should we all cross fingers that we get the GSX-R, and if not just quit?

I have no issue with cars being tweaked for similar performance.
Be it replicas of real life cars, or VGT's.
Each to their own I guess.

I do however find it interesting how some like to complain about 'fantasy' cars.
And then proceed to apply 'real world' conditions to it.
As if to find yet something else to complain about.

If the cars are of equal performance, what's the issue?

 

[sems4arsenal]

Am I the only one who prefers GT games' old-fashioned GT mode to sim games Career mode like the ones in PCARS and Dirt Rally?

I don't get the appeal of PCARS's career when I can race any car on any track of my choosing online or offline at the time of my choosing.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Am I the only one who prefers GT games' old-fashioned GT mode to sim games Career mode like the ones in PCARS and Dirt Rally?

I don't get the appeal of PCARS's career when I can race any car on any track of my choosing online or offline at the time of my choosing.

No, you're not alone.

 

[7HO]

Am I the only one who prefers GT games' old-fashioned GT mode to sim games Career mode like the ones in PCARS and Dirt Rally?

I don't get the appeal of PCARS's career when I can race any car on any track of my choosing online or offline at the time of my choosing.

I can understand why people would prefer one over the other. The appeal of those sims is simple, they are trying to simulate what you could do in real life if you had the resources, they allow you to play out a fantasy. From what I have seen of PCARS I think their approach looks like the best of any game in my opinion but I haven't played it and can't be sure. In real life there is a ladder to certain classes but often multiple paths and your path is your own. If I had the money I can start in any of the classes I dream of racing in and never race anything else if I wished, if I could do that in real life why should I be forced to race in a whole bunch of cars I have no interest in just to get to the actual class i dream about racing in?