Gran Turismo games used to be fun for me. GT6 single player was not, it was a boring, tiresome slog. That's why we're talking about AI, because for those of use that don't care for online the GT games are just not so fun any more and we hope they make strides for GTS, otherwise it doesn't seem worth buying.
Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion
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- Neomone
But running the AI on the player physics is usually just a waste of compute power.
A lot of the fidelity of a physics system is only perceptible when you're actually in control, which is why judging from Youtube videos and the like is often dubious. So if the player is only going to be watching the AI drive, you might as well run a simplified physics system on them. It saves compute power for other things, and depending on how you do it makes it easier for the AI to control as well.
So if the requirements are:
-Graphics similar or slightly lesser than GT
-A solid frame rate of 30 or 60fps
-Drives well as an acceptable simulator, at or slightly below the level of GT5/6
-On PS3
There are lots of games that fit that description. Probably most of the simulator and simcade games on PS3 except for the super buggy ones like Shift 2. I would like to make honourable mention of Ferrari Challenge, for one. Great game.
I'd argue that you should also be considering X360 games, because the actual performance of the hardware is very comparable. In which case the list grows even further to include certain competitors.
Probably. There are plenty of LFS era simulators that have equivalent or better physics systems than GT6. I doubt that they're particularly demanding.
I always sensed PD made a lot of compromise just to bump up native res in GT6
Oh yes. I still think that GT6 looks worse than GT5, which in turn looks worse than GT5P. GT5P is so clean and crisp, it's still beautiful to look at in motion.
Yes, they do. And they have been since GT5. The graphical and physics issues with GT5 and 6 are well documented.
And that's why. You enjoy GT not because it's realistic, but because in some ways it isn't and that's more fun for you. I don't feel the same about GT, but I do have other racing games (like Grid:Autosport) that I feel similarly about. I drive them because they're fun, not because they're particularly realistic.
That's why PD settle for second best in terms of physics. It's not a better simulator, but it is for many more fun because of that. That's fine and it's absolutely a valid design choice, although it makes their marketing angle of being a supremely accurate simulation a bit disingenuous.
I think a lot of people have trouble with Gran Turismo not being the best at some things. As it stands right now, it's not really the best at anything, and yet it's still quite a good game. You don't have to be the best at anything to be able to put together a compelling package that is enjoyable to play.
I think Polyphony could do well to remember this too. We don't need a thousand cars and crazy features out the wazoo. The only superlative that's actually worth aiming for is most enjoyable.
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- ron1986
The thing is that GtPlanet used to be a news site just for Gran Turismo, hence the underline "covering the world of gran turismo".
And now 90% you see on the news page are articles of other racing games. Back then i jumped in the air everytime i saw that some new article was available, presumably showing something new of Gran Turismo. No i cant jump in the air anymore, because everything i get to read about are what DLC for Need For Speed or Forza are availabe, or that some mobile App for Driveclub is ready to download.
I didnt used to be a site which covers everything about racing games - it was a site about covering the world of gran turismo. And thats what bugs people like me when a new GtPlanet Facebook post about some other game is made.
Its like you have your favourite PlayStation Website, which just brings PlayStation news, and you liked that site just because of that, because you only get to see stuff you want to see. But then suddenly your site which always covered only the world of playstation starts putting up news about xbox stuff.
There isnt a game with similar good physics or graphics as GT6 on PS3. All the other games made those compromises everybody here talks about. And thats the reason nobody plays them! Just take a look at all those sluggish 25 fps Dirt, Grid and F1 Games with that bad 720p resolution. Gran Turismo 5 and 6 was miles ahead of its PS3 competition!
I play Grid Autosport at the moment, which definitely makes fun but definitely isnt comparable with the overall quality of Gran Turismo. In terms of picture quality all those games are pretty much a joke compared to GT, and physics wise there isnt anything near either. And you have to consider that GT has 15 times more stuff in it than everything else on PS3.
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That depends. Do you mean GT6 when it looks like this:
Or like this:
Because I can name plenty when it's the latter, and it's completely valid as a reference to what GT6 can look like.
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I have Ferrari the Race Experience, not sure if that's great but I do enjoy it a lot for years now. Didn't know that GT5P was more crisp and cleaner to look, never have it There was one used to be on sale, a JP copy for around US $ 10, but I didn't buy it as I already have GT5 back in 2013.
There was one used to be on sale, a JP copy for around US $ 10, but I didn't buy it as I already have GT5 back in 2013.
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I believe that's called moving the goalposts.
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- ron1986
Everything is possible, but that really shouldnt happen. And i think the majority of people would be pissed, because there is a reason they read on site that covers exclusively one theme.
That depends. Do you mean GT6 when it looks like this:
Or like this:
Because I can name plenty when it's the latter, and it's completely valid as a reference to what GT6 can look like.
Even when you take standard cars they look better in gameplay then any of the cars in those other washed out bad Anti Aliasing 720p games. When you would put a standard car of GT6 in lets say Grid Autosport, you wouldnt even be able to see all those jaggies because of the miserable picture quality
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That depends. Do you mean GT6 when it looks like this:
Or like this:
Because I can name plenty when it's the latter, and it's completely valid as a reference to what GT6 can look like.
All I'm going to say is...
Thank all the appropriate deities that Polyphony decided that it might be a teensy bit, er, incongruous, to have PS2 quality cars in a PS4 RACING GAME. The top pic looks superb, no doubt about it, but there's no doubt either about the fact the bottom pic looks like a decade old PS2 game...
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Why did you limit it to PS3 when we were talking about settling for second best? So that the obvious competitor can't be the answer?
Nice.
Kind of inevitable when there's no news about Gran Turismo. Either GTPlanet diversifies or it goes into hibernation for six months while we wait for more news after the first trailer.
GT also made compromises, and that's the point. People cherry pick the best of what GT6 has to offer, but the compromise that GT made is that the quality varies far more than any other game.
At it's best, GT6 is far superior to any other racing game on comparable hardware, but at it's worst it's also worse than pretty much any other racing game on PS360 I can think of except Shift 2. One could ignore that and say that GT6 is the best, but I think realistically you've got to put the two together and evaluate the game as a whole. Which means that it comes out somewhere in the middle.
Didn't know that GT5P was more crisp and cleaner to look, never have it
I think GT5P is worth picking up for cheap if you can. I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it, and $5 is probably more like a fair price. But it's still interesting. It's a decent little game, if you like GT then you'll enjoy playing through it even though it's short. The physics are slightly different to both GT5 and 6, in an interesting way. And the graphical treatment is what we might have seen if they hadn't done the whole light and weather thing and just went for simple, clean, high resolution graphics.
Some people may think that it's better or worse than the other games, but it's an interesting alternative at least. If you haven't played you'll probably get at least a few hours of fun out of it.
Can you get any more hyperbolic? You make it sound like 720p is 240p. Those games can and do look great. Maybe you need a new TV.Everything is possible, but that really shouldnt happen. And i think the majority of people would be pissed, because there is a reason they read on site that covers exclusively one theme.
Even when you take standard cars they look better in gameplay then any of the cars in those other washed out bad Anti Aliasing 720p games. When you would put a standard car of GT6 in lets say Grid Autosport, you wouldnt even be able to see all those jaggies because of the miserable picture quality
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If PD pulled off:
60fps
near Driveclub weather effects
VR
day/night cycles
dropped ps2 Era cars
more refined course maker
older wheel support
then GTS might actually have a chance at bringing new life to the series. But this no news stuff is probably costing Sony console jumps instead of pushes.
60fps
near Driveclub weather effects
VR
day/night cycles
dropped ps2 Era cars
more refined course maker
older wheel support
then GTS might actually have a chance at bringing new life to the series. But this no news stuff is probably costing Sony console jumps instead of pushes.
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From what we know so far:
- Locked 60fps is possible since that is a minimum requirement for VR compatibility (assuming they don't restrict the VR to a "Hi-Fi Mode" type thing, and it can be used at any time, 60fps *might* be a thing).
- VR is definitely happening - the power of the GT name alone will sell VR units on the promise of compatibility, and racing games probably stand to gain the most out of VR. Kaz said testing the game in VR was a "very good and very natural" experience, too.
- PS2 cars are quite possibly gone, according to the Facebook message saying "GT Sport's cars will all be super-premium".
The rest is all up in the air - I can see weather and time change being part of the game (it would be an odd regression from GT6 to ditch it altogether rather than refining and tweaking it I feel), no idea how close it will be to DC.
Course Maker may or may not be a thing, considering the focus on the FIA - this might mean in turn a greater focus on real world tracks and motorsport rather than fictional ones.
Wheel support is a tough one, too, as it still remains unclear as to who or what is responsible for the issue - Logitech said the G27 and G25 are incompatible because of the lack of a supposed security chip that is required for PS4 compatibility, hence the G29 having a separate switch for PS4 and PS3 modes. However, I remember reading also that all that would need to be done for PS3 wheels to work was for game developers to write and include their own drivers in PS4 games - in which case they could be compatible, and the whole "security chip" thing isn't an issue...
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- ron1986
My TV definitely isnt the problem. The problem is not only 720p, which wouldnt be a problem at all at a respectable distance to the TV but the poor Anti Aliasing most of the games use. I mean, look at Grid Autosport for example, in comparison to GT5 oder GT6 it really looks horrible due to the bad picture quality, graphics wise i am sure it will look pretty good on a good PC although the car models are very crappy compared to Gran Turismo (or Forza).
GTPlanet did go into hibernation in the past when there wasnt anything GT related to talk about - and with that i was fine. I mean, why should the planet who "covers the world of Gran Turismo" post anything when there isnt anything to post about [Gran Turismo related]? That whole "news about any other racing games" stuff started about a year ago without any information that GTPlanet no longer covers exclusively Gran Turismo News, it just happened over night and some people like me are pissed to get their facebook page now spammed with news of stuff they dont care about. It was really great to have that one Website that just focused on Gran Turismo.
Since older Fanatec Wheels work on the PS4 with Project Cars its obvious Logitech lied about that security chip and only wants you to buy that crappy G29 which isnt anything better than the G27.
But i still hope Polyphony Digital will somehow magically manage to support my G25 in GTS
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It is efficient for current game too, get higher quality assets such as Premium cars and laser scanned tracks which must be a big chunk of where development resources goes into.
Not surprised how that turned out, PS3 does not get magically a lot more powerful so late into its life. Low amount of RAM and poor GPU are big problems to overcome. A small difference in hardware could have made a big difference in terms of how well the PS3 was perceived, if only it had a GeForce 8 series graphics and a bit more memory it would have made likely a huge difference on how well all games ran on the platform.
Naughty Dog new game is set to come out this year like PD. Also this was known before PS4 released. Link
Being first party studios who made heavy use of the Cell CPU, won't be surprised if they will be the ones making most use of GPGPU coming close to year 3 of platform.
Governing body like FIA, technology company like nVidia, even road names changed and film makers wanting to create something about GT so reputation is at an all time high.
It's rubber band style they implemented, they speed up unrealistically and slow down so the player is in as much a race as possible given the poor AI. I can't remember too well but I think on seasonal events, the AI are set with different characteristics on say Expert races.
I do think the AI is a lot more simplistic which should help free up CPU resources to improve other things. Less time spent on making AI on old platform should mean more time on building on a new platform, same goes for sound. I doubt they will be twiddling their thumbs when they can work on making better AI for another platform which is more capable to make a bigger difference.
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And probably some people were interested to know about new games that they hadn't otherwise heard of.
The people who run GTP seem like reasonable sorts. Make your case to them why they shouldn't cover other similar games and I'm sure they'll listen. If they agree then maybe they'll stop covering other games.
Tired Tyres
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@Tired Tyres Maybe you can bring evidence of that Logitech responsibility in a more appropriate thread, as I'm really interested to find the missing pieces between PD's unconditional praise of the DFGT to switching to Thrustmaster in the scope of half a game generation...
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Did they stop supporting the DFGT?
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The venture with Polyphony appeared solid with GT5P, not sure not supporting them afterwards would have done Sony any good...
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I asked this question earlier and didn't get a response, so I would like to ask again what you're so confident about happening today with regards to GT Sport and "knowing the truth".
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Scaff
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Sorry did none of those other studios release titles on last gen platforms as well?
As far as sales figures go that has no bearing at all on this, you are basically saying that PD haven't released anything on the PS4 in three years, but that's an acceptable time frame because Forza doesn't sell as well? No correlation exists between those two things, let alone causality.
Now aside from the fact that right now the size of the community (outside of Sony and PD staff) for GT on the PS4 is zero, you seem to be equating quantity with quality. Does that maker Justin Beiber the most talented musician of this generation?
And not everyone is like you, some of us (many of whom have followed the series from day 1) are/have moved away from it. If you go back and read my posts you will notice that this (as in both sides) is something I have already covered.
I would suggest you be very careful about throwing around such accusations.
Now as you seemed to be aiming that at me, I do wonder which parts of what I posted were not valid observations and opinions from a long term member of the site who has owned and played every version of GT?
Why only the PS3? Did other systems at that time not offer any racing titles?
However I can name you two titles on the PS2 that had better physics than any GT title has had (Enthusia and Richard Burns Rally), and as far as graphics go well for the minority of GT5/6 then nothing on another platform could touch it. However for the majority of the GT5/6 content (i.e. the standard cars and tracks) then just about any game on the PS3 looked better than it, as they were not reusing PS2 material.
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Hm, it doesnt seem to be just my problem, as SlipZtrEm said that many people are complaining about that change -->
It just doesnt fit with "Covering the World of Gran Turismo" anymore. An article on the site about that change of direction and a different line like "Covering the World of sim racing" would have made things clearer.
Scaff
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Its not actually 'many' people at all. Its a small number of people (the same each and every time), many of whom would either not last a day as a member based on how they conduct themselves or (and this is my favorite) people who have been banned from GT Planet and very loudly and abusively informed that they would never be back.
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No no, those are reasonable points. When I see the "Covering the World of Gran Turismo" tagline right above an article about PCARS, I get really confused too. I just stare at the screen not knowing what to do, it's awful.
And don't get me started on the Facebook page! Spamming my feed with up to 3 articles per day! No one can cope with simply ignoring that amount of interesting and well written content. Disgraceful, GTPlanet.
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I haven't followed PS VR development much, what do you mean by a "Hi-Fi Mode"? I was under the impression that 60fps was a minimum requirement too, do you think there's a way they could put in VR without the game running at locked 60? (and without Sony being very cross?
)
I suppose the other thing to consider with VR is whilst it is a promised feature, I don't believe it's been specifically promised to be there at launch..............
And don't get me started on the Facebook page! Spamming my feed with up to 3 articles per day! No one can cope with simply ignoring that amount of interesting and well written content. Disgraceful, GTPlanet.
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I haven't followed PS VR development much, what do you mean by a "Hi-Fi Mode"? I was under the impression that 60fps was a minimum requirement too, do you think there's a way they could put in VR without the game running at locked 60? (and without Sony being very cross?
)I suppose the other thing to consider with VR is whilst it is a promised feature, I don't believe it's been specifically promised to be there at launch..............
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My favourite GT title on PS3. I think the handling balance of cars was better, managed to find one video I recorded when I was quite new to using a wheel. I didn't enjoy driving the F2007 on GT5 but on GT5P I think it was a lot better.I have Ferrari the Race Experience, not sure if that's great but I do enjoy it a lot for years now. Didn't know that GT5P was more crisp and cleaner to look, never have it
If they still had leaderboards up, probably would still play it and see if I've improved over the years or got worse.
GT SPORT better have leaderboards like that game.
