Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[super_gt]

If I get a chance to drive track at EGX next month, I will let you know how I find it.

👍

 

[another_jakhole]

You either misunderstand or pretend to misunderstand... Well, that's just human, i'm sure it happens to me also, so alright

Example - i did not speak of other games having other assists, like separating them form GTS. I said "games have other assist" not "OtHeR games have other assists" - but you jump on that.

And if you cannot verify has rl driver turned of his rl assists, and then in a video of a simulation you can't verify which assists are of and which on - how can one judge anything anything... On top of that what kinds of assists GTS even has? On top on the of the top, it can't be verified how close or far are they from rl counterparts.

SRF is one of GT's very powerful assists that don't exist.

Eek. SRF. l remember a 15th anniversary race with Lucas Ordonez and Kaz where SRF was allowed. It was horrifying watching the winner get a prize. I cried bloody Mary. Fun/ny to see if you're a sadist though.

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

Exactly! Yes! It's horribly OP assist, twisting the very fabric of nature Never use it myself... Also on the subject - rl enthusiast drivers, those that tend to go to Ring and risk life and limb, and cars - by being enthusiast they are often inclined to turn their rl assists OFF. (So, who among us can verify by watching a YouTube video if any are OFF, ON, or on some of their intermediate settings?) Also they tendto modify their cars. Change tires, balance... There are totally different cars in rl - the only thing common to all of them are the universal laws of physics, and not not not how all of those different cars react and handle those laws.

 

[Scaff]

You either misunderstand or pretend to misunderstand... Well, that's just human, i'm sure it happens to me also, so alright

I didn't misunderstand you, I simply don't agree with you.

Example - i did not speak of other games having other assists, like separating them form GTS. I said "games have other assist" not "OtHeR games have other assists" - but you jump on that.

I think the issue is that English is quite clearly your second language, how you have worded it infered other games.

And if you cannot verify has rl driver turned of his rl assists, and then in a video of a simulation you can't verify which assists are of and which on - how can one judge anything anything... On top of that what kinds of assists GTS even has? On top on the of the top, it can't be verified how close or far are they from rl counterparts.

As has already been said we know that the video posted by Super GT does have assists switched on (as he has said), we also know from a number of sources that braking in that compression will cause oversteer, yet the car in GTS has heavy understeer.

Assists are as such total irrelevant to this, regardless of if they are on or off the physics engine is clearly having an issue at that point. If assists were off then it should have oversteered, if they were on then they should have reduced the oversteer. On or off they should not result in understeer.

SRF is one of GT's very powerful assists that don't exist.

And GTS doesn't have it. I know it doesn't have it because I've spent a good couple of hours in GTS.

 

[super_gt]

Now in the case of GTS (which didn't have any 'non-real' assists when I played it) the comparison to that part if the 'ring is valid. Its a section in which every guide tells you not to brake, ever. If you do the compression will unsettle the car and it will result in oversteer. Now assist should try and reduce that or even in extereme cases remove it, but to result in the exact opposite is an indication that something is not working with the physics engine correctly (of which the assists are a part of).

Very good explanation. 👍
It will be very interesting if you make the same test in Assetto Corsa next week

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

Yeah, sure, second language - so when (in making comparison to RL assists ) I said that "games have other assists" you interpreted that as if I've excluded GTS from general category of "games". Like I've meant "other games" instead of "other assists" - perhaps you misread or misunderstood.

And some people are clearly ignoring issues that started this. And that was a Gamescom video where someone put a wheel on the grass in a manner that in RL would spin the car out... right?

So, are you guys saying that such assists in a video game (video game!) could not be coded - the like that if GTS has at its core such physics that Would spin the car out just as in RL, but that assists could (if turned ON) override it and allow car not to spin.

For example GT6 has option of big or small loss of grip on grass/rain... And you are telling me that if game has really realistic physics, but certain assist allows player to have equal (or similar) grip on grass - that car still must spin out?

Does it or not?

 

[Scaff]

Yeah, sure, second language - so when (in making comparison to RL assists ) I said that "games have other assists" you interpreted that as if I've excluded GTS from general category of "games". Like I've meant "other games" instead of "other assists" - perhaps you misread or misunderstood.

You used the term 'games' as such its perfectly reasonable to think that you are talking about 'games' and not just limiting it to the GT series.

And some people are clearly ignoring issues that started this. And that was a Gamescom video where someone put a wheel on the grass in a manner that in RL would spin the car out... right?

Two different things and I have only been talking about one of them.

So, are you guys saying that such assists in a video game (video game!) could not be coded - the like that if GTS has at its core such physics that Would spin the car out just as in RL, but that assists could (if turned ON) override it and allow car not to spin.

No one has said it couldn't have been done, simply that if it has been done then its indicative of an issue with the physics engine, as no real world assist is is going to get you out of that situation (as the video Super GT quite clearly demonstrated) to such a degree that it turns heavy oversteer into understeer.

For example GT6 has option of big or small loss of grip on grass/rain... And you are telling me that if game has really realistic physics, but certain assist allows player to have equal (or similar) grip on grass - that car still must spin out?

No one has said that either.

Does it or not?

What?

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

Yes, but you interpreted that as if I have said "not GTS but other games apart from GTS". Now you finally understand that I meant all games - as I have clearly said because I didn't say "other games" only "other assists" - "games have other assists then RL cars in RL".

So, GTS or any other video game could (could) have most realistic simulated physics ever - and such physics would still allow for kinds of video game assists that would let inexperienced player go over grass in every way without spinning. So if someone put a wheel on the grass and didn't spin - it doesn't indicate that without (underneath) that particular assist are flawed physics, less then great physics.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, but you interpreted that as if I have said "not GTS but other games apart from GTS". Now you finally understand that I meant all games - as I have clearly said because I didn't say "other games" only "other assists" - "games have other assists then RL cars in RL".

No. I meant all games including GTS, however given that I know exactly what assists GTS has I was interested to know what other games you were referring to as well.

As you can see:

"No one has said that other titles don't have assists (and if they did they would be wrong); that those assists are more obtrusive? Well that's quite debatable as it would depend on which other title and which GT title."

So, GTS or any other video game could (could) have most realistic simulated physics ever - and such physics would still allow for kinds of video game assists that would let inexperienced player go over grass in every way without spinning. So i f someone put a wheel on the grass and didn't spin - it doesn't indicate that without that particular assist are flawed physics, less then great physics.

I'm not talking about going onto the grass, never have been. I'm talking about braking into that particuklar compression on the 'ring.

Now if you want to talk about going off track you need to be aware that even with no assists on a car going onto the grass isn't going to automatically mean you are going to spin in reality!

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

That's why I've said, generalized "over the grass in every way" just to cover my self from such amazing scrutiny, 'cause I do know that 👍

 

[Scaff]

That's why I've said, generalized "over the grass in every way" just to cover my self from such amazing scrutiny, 'cause I do know that 👍

And in the very next sentence you change that!

Honestly its not clear at all what you are trying to claim at all.

However what I am saying that an assist (that exists in reality) does something in a sim (any sim) that would not be possiable in reality, then it is an issue with the physics model of that sim. Active system are a part of the physics engine, in exactly the same way that active systems are governed by physics in reality.

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

But you do not know if in that game were employed only RL types of assists or also some that are unique to games, do you?
Like some that provides player with nearly equal grip on grass. So "what ever, how ever he drives on grass" he won't spin. (when he does things that would result with spin in RL, and anything else - without going into details of that with someone so amazing in scrutiny and disection 👍 )

 

[SlimCharles]

Graphics/Sound? Sure. It helps if you've got high-quality direct feed footage of the game (which we do), but you still need to be aware that the game is still in development and the graphics are subject to refinement.

Car/Track lists? Sure, and having complete car or track lists makes those criticisms fairly solid. I don't believe we have those for GTS yet though... but maybe I just haven't been following it as closely

No, I wasnt saying you can judge GT Sport. I was saying you can judge those aspects of a game, any game without playing it.

About GT Sport we can judge already some things. Like the low number of tracks, the large number of VGT, the beautiful (although too much contrast) graphics, the bad but improved sound, the bad collision phisics...

 

[Scaff]

But you do not know if in that game were employed only RL types of assists or also some that are unique to games, do you?
Like some that provides player with nearly equal grip on grass. So "what ever, how ever he drives on grass" he won't spin. (when he does things that would result with spin in RL, and anything else - without going into details of that with someone so amazing in scrutiny and disection 👍 )

By 'that game' I assume you are refering to GTS, in which case yes we do know what assists it has and what real life systems they are attempting to simulate.

ABS, TCS and ASM.

 

[Lain]

Judging by the audio, it's trying to simulate ASMR as well.

 

[PaMu1337]

Short judgement from my +- 8 minutes of playing at gamescom (1 lap Nordschleiffe in RS01 GT3):
Audio: too much background noise, couldn't hear it. No comment.
Graphics: looked great in general, but glitchy (flickering) in fences and trees.
Hud: contains proximity lights for cars on both sides. There were also two arrows, like turn indicators or something like that (they stayed off for the entire time), similar to what could be seen in early GT5 screenshots.
Physics: Felt good, not too different from GT6. FFB was good, but a bit weak (could just be the settings, and the quite worn down wheels they were using).
AI: Too short to really judge.
Menu's: Looked good, easy to use and quick. Similar to GT6.

General noteworthy things: Nürburgring was listed as having two layouts, one was at 3:00pm, and one at 8:00pm (still in sunlight). So different times are considered different layouts . Car selection was very good (didn't find any surprises there that we didn't already know about), all looked really nice.

 

[queleuleu]

Three points I'd like to share here :

1. I love the fantasy cars of Poly, espcially the group B.

2. When you think about it, it's pretty crazy : Gamescom is the biggest event in Europe and Europe is the biggest market for Poly. And what did they bring : some screenshots. Nothing new on the game, no concrete details on the game. And don't tell me they will be at the Playstation Event They are just late on their schedule I think.

3. Please Poly, pick any of your track from GT1 and GT4 and make it HD. I'm sorry but they have lost their magic with tracks since GT5 and the dirt track looks so dull. Maybe they can see with GT6 how much time players have spent on Midfield Raceway (the best update of GT6!).

 

[azeeza]

Three points I'd like to share here :

1. I love the fantasy cars of Poly, espcially the group B.

2. When you think about it, it's pretty crazy : Gamescom is the biggest event in Europe and Europe is the biggest market for Poly. And what did they bring : some screenshots. Nothing new on the game, no concrete details on the game. And don't tell me they will be at the Playstation Event They are just late on their schedule I think.

3. Please Poly, pick any of your track from GT1 and GT4 and make it HD. I'm sorry but they have lost their magic with tracks since GT5 and the dirt track looks so dull. Maybe they can see with GT6 how much time players have spent on Midfield Raceway (the best update of GT6!).

Gamescom is not a big event since few years, Sony or Microsoft dont do conference anymore.
The event that grow year after year in Europe is the Paris game Week

 

[Aiko_Mac]

Three points I'd like to share here :

1. I love the fantasy cars of Poly, espcially the group B.

2. When you think about it, it's pretty crazy : Gamescom is the biggest event in Europe and Europe is the biggest market for Poly. And what did they bring : some screenshots. Nothing new on the game, no concrete details on the game. And don't tell me they will be at the Playstation Event They are just late on their schedule I think.

3. Please Poly, pick any of your track from GT1 and GT4 and make it HD. I'm sorry but they have lost their magic with tracks since GT5 and the dirt track looks so dull. Maybe they can see with GT6 how much time players have spent on Midfield Raceway (the best update of GT6!).

To be honest, GTS needs some tracks from older games, it would be a nice touch for GT players and the game.

 

[SlimCharles]

From the people who played GT, some say the physics are like Assetto´s and others say they are not too different from GT6. Definetly has to be improvement based on many opinions from first hand. But definetly im gonna wait to play it to judge it.

My intuition tells me GT in physics is going to be near PCars, most likely below it. But very close.

 

[Nato_777]

To be honest, GTS needs some tracks from older games, it would be a nice touch for GT players and the game.

I agree what GT needs now more than any other iteration is some nostalgic original tracks just to keep a good balance between the past and the future for the series. Of course there may be some, we haven't seen all the tracks yet.

 

[05XR8]

For me, GTS does not need to reinvent itself. It needs to change the "challenges".

I don't want to buy the game(for the first time I have ever considered not buy a GT game) because, I don't want more of the same. I thought GT6 was going to be different.

-Tutorial at Brands Hatch:
Learn where buttons are, HUD, put a lap together to determine skill level, keep practicing until the player is ready.

Once I was done, nope. Pick a small car, Sunday Cup, start from back, weak AI, win.
Next race. Use small car, start from back, weak AI, win.
Next race. Use small car....

How will GTS begin? History of GT tells us I can only drive a race car once I go through many hours of grinding. Get enough Cr. Blow it all and then grind even more to get another one.

If GTS allows us to choose any Group to begin a player's discipline, that would be a first.
If GTS allows us to choose any car at onset, that would be a first.
If GTS allows us access to all cars and tracks, that is a first.

I'm not wishing for anything. I'm just a little tired of rushing to get a GT game and it turns out to be the same game I bought in '97. Just with better graphics.

We're seeing videos of game play. That's fine but, we're not getting much info about how this game is played.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I agree what GT needs now more than any other iteration is some nostalgic original tracks just to keep a good balance between the past and the future for the series. Of course there may be some, we haven't seen all the tracks yet.

There probably will be some. Right offhand, the only GT game I can think of (besides GT1, obviously) that hasn't included older original tracks from previous iterations would be GT HD Concept, since it only came with Eiger Nordwand Short.

 

[Robbks]

If GTS allows us to choose any Group to begin a player's discipline, that would be a first.
If GTS allows us to choose any car at onset, that would be a first.
If GTS allows us access to all cars and tracks, that is a first.

I'm not wishing for anything. I'm just a little tired of rushing to get a GT game and it turns out to be the same game I bought in '97. Just with better graphics.

We're seeing videos of game play. That's fine but, we're not getting much info about how this game is played.

^^ Exactly this is how I hope GTS will play out.
I believe it will.

We (they) have the numbers and testing of QM and online seasonals to allow you to jump into a GR.3/ GR.B machine and compete, either against AI or Other real life beings.
How the rest of your progression plays out..? who knows. (well, PD do obviously)

 

[Samus]

Pretty sure the first proper thing you'll have to do is most of campaign mode AKA licence tests and the like. After that isn't clear but my guess is you're gifted a couple of cars to get started, probably Gr.N or Gr.4 and then it's off into Sport mode or online to earn credits to buy more.

 

[Renan_]

All the pages are full of important information about the game, no offtopics. You should read them all.

Sadly, I just did that

 

[ScottPuss20]

For me, GTS does not need to reinvent itself. It needs to change the "challenges".

I don't want to buy the game(for the first time I have ever considered not buy a GT game) because, I don't want more of the same. I thought GT6 was going to be different.

-Tutorial at Brands Hatch:
Learn where buttons are, HUD, put a lap together to determine skill level, keep practicing until the player is ready.

Once I was done, nope. Pick a small car, Sunday Cup, start from back, weak AI, win.
Next race. Use small car, start from back, weak AI, win.
Next race. Use small car....

How will GTS begin? History of GT tells us I can only drive a race car once I go through many hours of grinding. Get enough Cr. Blow it all and then grind even more to get another one.

If GTS allows us to choose any Group to begin a player's discipline, that would be a first.
If GTS allows us to choose any car at onset, that would be a first.
If GTS allows us access to all cars and tracks, that is a first.

I'm not wishing for anything. I'm just a little tired of rushing to get a GT game and it turns out to be the same game I bought in '97. Just with better graphics.

We're seeing videos of game play. That's fine but, we're not getting much info about how this game is played.

Hopefully we aren't in the dark for much longer about the way the game is played. I definitely don't want it to be the same formula as all the previous games - this game is the perfect opportunity to change up how we play, not just what we play.

 

[jm79]

The link is a little off-topic, but this VR Driveclub assessment by Digital Foundry gives me more hope for GTS being able to do something cool with VR too...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-hands-on-with-driveclub-vr

The VR racing experience is better than all other PC attempts, apparently. That's some statement, considering the cost of a good VR PC and the associated VR kit.

 

[Aiko_Mac]

The link is a little off-topic, but this VR Driveclub assessment by Digital Foundry gives me more hope for GTS being able to do something cool with VR too...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-hands-on-with-driveclub-vr

The VR racing experience is better than all other PC attempts, apparently. That's some statement, considering the cost of a good VR PC and the associated VR kit.

So GTS may get VR treatment?

 

[Samus]

Hopefully we aren't in the dark for much longer about the way the game is played. I definitely don't want it to be the same formula as all the previous games - this game is the perfect opportunity to change up how we play, not just what we play.

We already know it's not the same formula, the core mode is online, not offline. The only thing we're really still in the dark is how cars are earned but it seems fairly logical to me they are bought from winnings earned online racing.