Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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Imari
Fair enough. It's true. Wipeout you damn near need 60fps for the high speed classes.

Again though, you're not reacting so much in Wipeout as needing perfect timing. If you're actually reacting to the corners there ain't no way you can play phantom and above. It's about smoothness, consistency, accuracy and forward planning. Which is why Wipeout on PSP was such a pain, because even though it was 60fps it sometimes dropped and a few dropped frames was enough to throw your entire rhythm off.

Let's remember though that phantom is 700kmph or more. Those are exceptional circumstances that don't apply to a racing game like Gran Turismo, or even many other games at all. I can't think of many other games that change the screen that fast, short of 360 noscoping which I mentioned above.



Or you could be one of those people who doesn't accept it as a black and white issue. All other things equal, 60 fps is better. But all other things are almost never equal. And while there are some games for which it's nearly a necessity (although not for the reason of reactions that continues to float around), for many it's not. People make an awful lot of fuss about 60 fps being mandatory for games which it's merely nice to have.

I mean, Forza Motorsport is smoother than Forza Horizon, but anyone who makes like it's a night and day difference has an agenda to push.
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Fair points, I do have a habit of being way too bias toward 60fps. Driveclub moved me a bit on that since it was such a smooth 30.
 
Imari
Of course you can. It's much nicer to play simulations at 60, but people make out like it's game breaking to play a sim at 30 fps.

It isn't.
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Nowadays, sims shouldn't be running at 30fps, and my point is, is that you cannot have a competition like GT academy and be backed by the FIA, if the game isn't at 60FPS. This affects the reality of the game, such as braking zones, lap time leaderboards etc. I'm not saying it's unplayable at all, but when you are backed by a governing body like the FIA, you should be trying to replicate the best way possible to compete with real-life motorsports
 
JamboGT
Haha!

The key to phantom is having your inputs done in advance, whether at 30 or 60, no time to react otherwise! Nevermind Zone mode 70 and up!
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Definitely, chasing those top 20 times was always fun but my god, I can still remember every track as if it were in front of me!

(Sorry for Off-Topic)
 
adstomko
Nowadays, sims shouldn't be running at 30fps, and my point is, is that you cannot have a competition like GT academy and be backed by the FIA, if the game isn't at 60FPS. This affects the reality of the game, such as braking zones, lap time leaderboards etc. I'm not saying it's unplayable at all, but when you are backed by a governing body like the FIA, you should be trying to replicate the best way possible to compete with real-life motorsports
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Of course, but the raw hardware power doesn't exist to have a world class physics system and graphics experience running on a consumer grade computer. We know that the physics are dumbed down, even the best consumer sims make simplifications so that the hardware doesn't get swamped with fluid dynamics and soft body calculations.

The graphics are the same. There's a balance between graphical fidelity and frames per second. A game like GTS isn't only a vehicle (ha!) for FIA motorsport, it's also meant to sell a lot of copies to Joe Public. That means a balance needs to be struck. Do you make a game that looks like Driveclub, or do you make a game that looks like Project CARS? I'd say you could make reasonable arguments for going either way, given how much of a rubber stamp the FIA thing seems to be and given how incredible Driveclub looks despite being 30fps.

Real life motorsports isn't about frame rate, it's a whole experience. If that experience can be delivered better at 30fps, taking into account the sacrifices that come along with that lower frame rate, then I think that's an option. Possibly not the ideal one, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

Personally, I would say that sound and trackside environment are far more important than frame rate. I would play a 30fps sim with great tracks and great sound over a 60 fps sim with bare wastelands. But that's just me, I'm not so fussed about willy waving and numbers as long as the experience is a good one.
 
About photo mode, I'd like to see long exposure photography.

We have actually nothing to discuss... The same tracks with the same cars... Playstation meeting is our only hope.
 
Imari
Of course, but the raw hardware power doesn't exist to have a world class physics system and graphics experience running on a consumer grade computer........ But that's just me, I'm not so fussed about willy waving and numbers as long as the experience is a good one.
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I respect your point completely, I just have a different approach to racing games as I am very keen/serious, when it comes to motorsport.
As someone who used to race competitively in real-life motorsport, something in my head tells me I cannot adjust to 30FPS sims/simcades. You hit the nail on the head in the second paragraph; there are pros and cons for both sides of the argument. For me, my eyes just concentrate on the track and where to brake etc, rather than the environment. However, I can fully understand why other things are more important to other people. Gran Turismo has been an arcade game for many years, but I feel that Kaz is now looking for a sim approach after the announcement of the FIA license. He is probably asking the same question himself
 
I don't know if anyone else feels like this but to me 30fps seems more natural than 60fps.
When you play pCARS @60fps it has this kind of weird "fluidity" it seems that irl is 30fps or that is just the issue with the motion blur you expirience irl
 
RACECAR
If you supposedly can't tell the difference yourself, then how can you say that? Wouldn't that mean the supposed advantage you speak of pretty much be non-existent for you?

Also, is there any actual scientific basis on this or this based more so on perception then anything else? (Kinda like movie ratings)
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SMS's Andy Tudor said this which I thought is relevant

For a racing game, 60fps is hugely important," Tudor continued. "What people don't know is that the physics underneath runs at 600 times a second. We measure the input you're doing on the controller 250 times per second. Project Cars does that way more than any other game - they're all doing that significantly lower. The screen refreshes 60 times per second - we're measuring the tires, the physics, the suspension, all that stuff, 600 times."
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And for me aside from FPS and Sim racers, I'd gladly chose graphics over frame rate anytime. Also I don't "usually" but jumping from Dirt Rally to DC I do notice the smoothness somewhat. Granted DC has a locked 30 with brilliant motion blur so kudos to them for that.
 
GTEFGHA
I don't know if anyone else feels like this but to me 30fps seems more natural than 60fps.
When you play pCARS @60fps it has this kind of weird "fluidity" it seems that irl is 30fps or that is just the issue with the motion blur you expirience irl
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If you play more 30FPS games it's going to look more natural than something you aren't used to. If all games were 60FPS it would look natural.

I.e: All Wii U games I play are 60fps except a few titles and they look horrible because I'm used to 60 on that console. 👍
 
GTEFGHA
I don't know if anyone else feels like this but to me 30fps seems more natural than 60fps.
When you play pCARS @60fps it has this kind of weird "fluidity" it seems that irl is 30fps or that is just the issue with the motion blur you expirience irl
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It is like when you compare movies in the cinema compared to tv soap opera series on the silver screen. The movements in the movies are a bit slower, ie cooler compared to fast paced/sharp/odd looking movements in soap operas.
maybe you have the natural motion fuction enabled on the tv if you play on the console?
 
GTEFGHA
I don't know if anyone else feels like this but to me 30fps seems more natural than 60fps.
When you play pCARS @60fps it has this kind of weird "fluidity" it seems that irl is 30fps or that is just the issue with the motion blur you expirience irl
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At 30 fps you can often afford a bit of motion blur, that's probably why you find it more natural.
 
syntex123
But that's on PCs, not consoles? @FrzGT
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Kinda? Been looking alot of analysis videos about that on Youtube :D

I think the argument here is that since GTS is emphasized on Online Competitive, less input lag is required and a good Frame per Second is one of key factor of it.

Note that i said one of, not the only. Others include how devs code the input, compatibility of hardware, etc.
 
queleuleu
About photo mode, I'd like to see long exposure photography.

We have actually nothing to discuss... The same tracks with the same cars... Playstation meeting is our only hope.
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I hope I'm wrong but I get the feeling if they're going to show off GTS on the Neo it's going to be with the most polished and bug-free assets and content and we know what that is. Hopefully I'm wrong though and they've got other fully finished, stunning tracks ready to show off with night and weather on top.

I'm fully expecting another trailer with Nurburgring, Brands and GT3 though.
 
Samus
I hope I'm wrong but I get the feeling if they're going to show off GTS on the Neo it's going to be with the most polished and bug-free assets and content and we know what that is. Hopefully I'm wrong though and they've got other fully finished, stunning tracks ready to show off with night and weather on top.

I'm fully expecting another trailer with Nurburgring, Brands and GT3 though.
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No Please No more Brands Hatch and Nurb... I love the Nurb for example but all the games look the same with this track.
 
Those who played (especially latter) games for PS1 can truly ecaluate 60 fps. (GT4 is smoother than GT6, also from direct feed, the GTS seems to be at the same smoothness as GT4)

I've tried japanese GT1 and is night and day compared to european GT1. You have so much more time to decide how to take the corner. And thats comparison between 25 and 30 fps (roughly)
 
Samus
Well it's not like PD are giving us much else to talk about. Someone needs to give them a poke.
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I just hope this silence produces a good result later this year... Maybe with all the hype and gaming events (that community would like to see them in) they do need some quiet time to focus on completing and polishing the game as of now...
 
GTEFGHA
I don't know if anyone else feels like this but to me 30fps seems more natural than 60fps.
When you play pCARS @60fps it has this kind of weird "fluidity" it seems that irl is 30fps or that is just the issue with the motion blur you expirience irl
Click to expand...

Its the same for me. When you drive a car in real life even at low speed and you lool out of the side window you will notice that the surroundings are blurred and more like 30fps than 60fps.

I dont know anything about the human eyes framerates but when you consider looking at the whole field of view my eyes definitly dont deliver a fluid view. When i look at a TV or a monitor (which only takes a small amount of the view) i surely can see the fluidity of 60fps compared to 30 fps but when i look at my whole sight everything but the point i focus on becomes non fluid and blurred.

And therefore i say 30fps with good motion blur is more realistic than 60fps.
 
ron86
i surely can see the fluidity of 60fps compared to 30 fps but when i look at my whole sight everything but the point i focus on becomes non fluid and blurred.

And therefore i say 30fps with good motion blur is more realistic than 60fps.
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I agree; in fact, I find 60 fps to be too fast for me.
 
I recommend watching this video explaining FPS. Its focused on Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, a competitive e-Sports fps game, but the main points are still there.

You will play better at a higher FPS. You will feel the difference when you play. You won't see the difference. In a casual game, 30 fps is sufficient I would say. But if you're trying to be the best player, you will need 60 fps. If you're not competing with anyone, 30 fps will be fine.

If GTS is going to be an e-Sports game, I believe 60 fps will be a requirement. For VR, it will be a bare minimum.

 
Right now, Nissan are waiting for PlayStation staff to arrive.
01MVW2ph.jpg


This is the wheel. I don't use one.
UfJqWxth.jpg


Lots of glare on screen. Tough to get a good angle with the video I took.
 
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