Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion
- Thread starter Formidable
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- 1,755
- PletdeKoe
Just ask yourself what has changed about you in all those years. Everything changes, all the time. So does the output PD gnerates, the anticipation details of all the gt fans, the marketing, the perception of gamers, the age of the average gt-fan etc.
I'll happily wait for a new gt game, whenever it is released. But I do not have the illusion the new GT will have the same impact GT1, 2 or 3 had.
I'll happily wait for a new gt game, whenever it is released. But I do not have the illusion the new GT will have the same impact GT1, 2 or 3 had.
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Probably not. They simply hit their ceiling.
Racing games were a lot simpler 20 years ago. Get a few really enthusiastic people together and give them a decent amount of time and yeah, you can do pretty incredible things.
But just because someone is a good driver in a regional series doesn't mean that he's necessarily capable of competing at an international level, no matter how much money and training you throw at him.
I think in 1998 Polyphony were in the right place at the right time with a competent group of people and a good idea. At that point, that was all that was required to dominate the market. They had that largely to themselves for the next ten years. Then came other people who were smarter and better. Polyphony simply don't seem to be able to keep up. Even with a change in focus with GTS, the game still shows a lot of the limitations that were ingrained in the PS1 generation. Like invisible walls.
There's something in management known as the Peter Principle. TL;DR: a person will be promoted until he reaches a position that he is incompetent to carry out. Maybe Polyphony are simply incapable of making a game that is a decent successor to GT4. That was their peak, and now they're out of their depth.
- 485
- Croatia
I think it's the competition that got PD. There are other players in this game now and instead of taking notes Kaz still acts like GT is untouchable. I never got the feeling PD tried to keep GT players from migrating to other games and systems. Not only that, but their absolute unwillingness to thoroughly address the problems that plagued the series for years, like the sounds. I could write pages on this stuff but we've been through all of that on the forums before.
I mean, this is Sony's first party studio, a system seller, among the top 3 top selling games for PS1, PS2 and PS3, of course people have expectations. And seemingly PD can't even do a stable 60fps frame rate.
That being said, GT Sport is not out yet and the impressions seem to be different every time they show the game. I want it to be good but so far, ehh..
I mean, this is Sony's first party studio, a system seller, among the top 3 top selling games for PS1, PS2 and PS3, of course people have expectations. And seemingly PD can't even do a stable 60fps frame rate.
That being said, GT Sport is not out yet and the impressions seem to be different every time they show the game. I want it to be good but so far, ehh..
- 1,984
- Barcelona
- mannjonusa
But again, I think a lot of the stress people feel, is the lack of communication from them. So vague statements at conferences become 'broken promises' or 'lies', delays become betrayal, features/changes and design decisions become colossal failures, etc etc.
Look at how well Kunos do with their nigh-on constant communication with their customers. People are not mad at them because they are clear about what they can do, and update you on progress.
If PD did a series of videos: car sound recordings in progress, tire modelling process or whatever, and tweeted and blogged regularly, then the fanbase would be assuaged for the most part. The game seems at least as good as other driving games, in some areas better, in some areas worse, but it's the only one that gets trashed this much on forums. This is because of the communication failures.
They need to employ a proper PR team, ASAP. Not a bunch of egits who set up impressive stands at game shows and then stop people recording the game. Or a hugely expensive launch event, and then remove all the videos online from it. Utterly, utterly idiotic.
Look at how well Kunos do with their nigh-on constant communication with their customers. People are not mad at them because they are clear about what they can do, and update you on progress.
If PD did a series of videos: car sound recordings in progress, tire modelling process or whatever, and tweeted and blogged regularly, then the fanbase would be assuaged for the most part. The game seems at least as good as other driving games, in some areas better, in some areas worse, but it's the only one that gets trashed this much on forums. This is because of the communication failures.
They need to employ a proper PR team, ASAP. Not a bunch of egits who set up impressive stands at game shows and then stop people recording the game. Or a hugely expensive launch event, and then remove all the videos online from it. Utterly, utterly idiotic.
- 40,878
Other than not putting a muzzle on Kaz and hiding the Standard/Premium thing until the last minute (the latter of which is probably more arguable as good marketing than bad), there really wasn't anything wrong with GT5's marketing. But as far as the game itself, there was clearly an earnest attempt to improve things in the series, but they were almost laughably misguided. Even among the bizarre bouts of laziness from a AAA game that spend nearly half a decade in development, you can absolutely see the logic that went into things like the change of the game structure; just that no one ever stopped to think about any consequences for them. But Kaz's social media presence and interviews following the game, plus the game actually being improved fairly substantially (albeit strangely inconsistently) over the course of two years? That was truly brilliant as far as damage control goes. GT5 was always a bit of a mess, but they managed to shape it into a good enough of one and gave it enough support that lingering problems could be ignored.
GTPSP was the same. For a game that was supposed to (and in any other developers hands, would have) come out in ~2005 and had already become the butt of jokes by 2006, it whipped up a humongous furor when it was actually announced. And when you actually play it, you see there was an earnest attempt at making a game for a portable system; just created by someone who wasn't as clever as they thought themselves to be.
And GT6? How many people bought into it who ordinarily wouldn't have? "Look how reserved Kaz is in interviews". "Look how little is being promised for this game". "Wow, it is actually going to make its release date". "Look how frank Kaz is being about what needs to improve". There was a lot of positive sentiment for that game that wouldn't have been there if they had gone in guns blazing like they had wth GT5, and I know it got people to buy it who were otherwise expecting very little improvement and not have bothered. And how was anyone to know that the game would actually be fairly consistently a half assed, worse performing, even more bizarrely designed wreck than GT5; not the least after that game had two years of continual improvements?
It wasn't until after GT6 where the PR fell into a death spiral. Course creator delayed for a year and a half, cut down in features and external from the game with no explanation whatsoever. Partnering with a fan site to create a Q&A forum and blog, then pretty much abandoning it after they go over one question (again, with no explanation whatsoever). The huge paid post-release content announced for the game never even started. The VGT program getting delayed so long that it became irrelevant to GT6 so PD abandoned it in kind. Giving interviews about the development greatness of the next console and release date targets that end up making them look dumb when the game blows right by them; and are eerily similar to the ones they gave for the previous system as well. 2013 FIA series very quietly forgotten about. Completely shutting off any social media presence except for the guy who gives occasional half answers to questions and the blog that occasionally talks about how Kaz went to some car show or whatever. Having a public beta make up almost the entirety of your game announcement, then quietly cancelling it in the hopes everyone would forget with some vague statements of getting the game out in time, then delaying the game indefinitely anyway; none of which with any explanation.
Those are all some disastrous PR gaffes from a series that has been traditionally been pretty decent at it (GT5's delays aside) and you're technically right that they have all happened in the last few years; but there's no reason to think that they belie anything about how anyone at PD has learned anything from the last three games they have released in terms of design.
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ISRAEL ZION
(Banned)
- 4
- peru
- kill_THEM
GTS is gonna have the best visuals of any game. I don't think there is a game on PC or XBOX that will compare to it. I hope they take a leaf from PCARS and enable all kinds of customisations and varying options in menu screen. User interface is 25% of a good game.
ASSETTO CORSA user interface is missing buckets of stuff and takes away from the game play. GTS need to include a lap timer that tells lap times, sector times, best laps, time delta's and most importantly Potential lap time from all the individual segments of the track.
Also they need to include different type of FFB options. AC use steering friction, PCARS use some telemetry (don't know what, but its good).
Enable on the Fly traction control adjustment and Brake bias, Dynamic driving line. Missing a single aspect out sends the whole game in to a black hole.
Im looking forwards to it, just hope it aint going to been for nothing.
ASSETTO CORSA user interface is missing buckets of stuff and takes away from the game play. GTS need to include a lap timer that tells lap times, sector times, best laps, time delta's and most importantly Potential lap time from all the individual segments of the track.
Also they need to include different type of FFB options. AC use steering friction, PCARS use some telemetry (don't know what, but its good).
Enable on the Fly traction control adjustment and Brake bias, Dynamic driving line. Missing a single aspect out sends the whole game in to a black hole.
Im looking forwards to it, just hope it aint going to been for nothing.
- 3,280
- France
The Forza 6 HUD looks very good but I can't find my best lap time for example. However GTSport HUD looks too busy for me. More informations on screen implies less space for the game itself.
jubeiiiii246
(Banned)
- 341
- NYC
- jubei257
ISRAEL ZION
(Banned)
- 4
- peru
- kill_THEM
GTS can look at PCARS and as regards to user interface and data information because they have it 90% nailed. PD could build on that by introducing
1. Adjustment of ABS+ TC in the race lobby
2. Have a small accelerator and brake display on the RPM HUD (like iRacing).
3. Have a telemetry full HUD, and having access to the sector times, time delta, and potential Lap time on the telemetry page.
Being able to analys corner by corner the time delta alongside vehicle telemetry is extremely helpful in understanding how to improve laptime.
1. Adjustment of ABS+ TC in the race lobby
2. Have a small accelerator and brake display on the RPM HUD (like iRacing).
3. Have a telemetry full HUD, and having access to the sector times, time delta, and potential Lap time on the telemetry page.
Being able to analys corner by corner the time delta alongside vehicle telemetry is extremely helpful in understanding how to improve laptime.
- 40,878
PCars interface in general is such a complete disaster that I'm kind of shocked it released in that state. The only one I've seen that is more confusing is rFactor's, and that is definitely something PD and Turn10 have excelled at in terms of making them approachable (albeit with their own problems).
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Nah. If they were great games then people would be mad beforehand but not so much afterwards.
GT5 and GT6 just aren't really very good games in many ways. They're not bad, they're just... average. And for a series with Polyphony's pedigree and budget, that's relatively bad.
Let's back the excuses train up for a minute. There are plenty of specific, clear, unequivocal statements that Kaz, Sony and Polyphony have made about the series in the last few years that ended up not happening, often with little to no explanation.
Let's not make it sound like people are getting upset because of nothing. There are those people too, but there's plenty of stuff that Polyphony have either straight up BS'd about, or changed and simply didn't bother to tell anyone else about. There is more than enough reason at this point to straight up disbelieve anything that Polyphony say, no matter how clear and concise a statement it might be.
- 1,003
- Spain
Not agree. I think PCars has a very good interface. All is where you expect it to be. In the main menu, right for options and left for racing (one column for career mode, another for quick racing, another for online and another for hot lap challenges).
Another thing is that it has a huge amount of options (wich is good) or it doesnt have a decent predefined force feedback or pad set up (wich is very bad).
Speaking of that, I think is going to be very difficult that another game will have the freedom PCars offers. You can do whatever you want: play with a keyboard (this is amazing for the possibilities it offers, like making a hand made hand brake), adjust your seat, adjust the HUD, endless set up options...
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Yes. But let's not pretend that those perceptions are based on "vague statements", because a lot of them weren't. A lot of them are based on concrete statements and actions from Polyphony.
Bad communication leads to a bad perception of the company. But bad perceptions don't make those concrete failures into a big deal, they were a problem regardless.
GTAV and Rockstar are pretty universally well regarded, and the BS surrounding Heists was still a big deal.
- 1,984
- Barcelona
- mannjonusa
It doesn't matter whether they were 'vague statements' or not, you can call them what you will.
A game dev gives an indication of x appearing, concrete or vague, and you then feel entitled to expect x.
When it doesn't arrive, you form a negative perception.
Both the creation of an expectation of something, and then the lack of info regarding the subsequent lack of that something, are both communication problems.
AC gets a huge amount of goodwill, despite, to all intents and purposes, being a terrible 'game'. This doesn't matter because they have clearly communicated that their priority is mainly the physics, the feel, whatever it might be. So everyone understands what is going on.
ISRAEL ZION
(Banned)
- 4
- peru
- kill_THEM
Never have console users been given such freedom. And at the start I thought I was too much but as I played the game realised it was a far sighted moved from SMS. AC have done a terrible job on menu and option. Feels like a "game boy" options menu's lol. Not a massive fan of games that don't allow personalisation of driving immersion.
With Forza moving to PC I assume they will allow more customisation, so on that assumption PD ought to be aware of this.
I'm happy the game is delayed hoping they implemented many features. The last thing I hope for is they launch a product sufficent for casual gamers, neglecting the longer term user.
With Forza moving to PC I assume they will allow more customisation, so on that assumption PD ought to be aware of this.
I'm happy the game is delayed hoping they implemented many features. The last thing I hope for is they launch a product sufficent for casual gamers, neglecting the longer term user.
Tired Tyres
Premium
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
- 1,984
- Barcelona
- mannjonusa
No, they've definitely failed in both. GT5 1.00 had absolutely terrible game design and had to be patched several times to fix many of the failures. GT6 wasn't much better, the need to grind massively had gone from the start but the GT mode was still badly designed IMO, Kaz just played Angry Birds and thought he'd copy the stars idea. It didn't do anything to refresh the now dull mode and you still had other bad game design ideas like only 20 cars in Arcade Mode, rubber band AI that literally doesn't want to win, probably more that I've forgotten.
- 720
- Austria
- ron1986
GT5 to me was the best GT ever until GT6 replaced it. I mean, GT5 hat about everything that made GT4 great plus tons of more goodness, GT6 was a much improved next title which replaced GT5 from my trhone of the best game i ever played.
I still play GT6 today (and would play GT5 if there wouldnt have been a GT6) - i cant say that about any other game i owned. So, the last two GTs definitly where worth the money for me.
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
You called them vague statements. I'm pointing out that there were many examples of statements that were not by any measure vague.
And it does matter if they were vague when you're trying to paint it as if being upset at Polyphony's inaccurate statements is somehow simply a miscommunication. It was not.
As any reasonable, rational person should. I would question the person that didn't form a negative perception from that interaction.
No, not really. That's communication working more or less exactly how it is supposed to. The developers communicate that this is what their game is going to be. The customers then communicate their displeasure with the fact that the game doesn't match that description.
Polyphony's problem is that they don't realise that there's a difference between the game that they've actually made and the game that they envision in their heads.
If GT5 1.01 was advertised exactly as it appeared, very few would have bought it.
If GT6 1.0 was advertised exactly as it appeared along with accurate descriptions of the future features, even less would have bought it.
Polyphony communicate just fine when they want to. They're simply very good at making sure that what they're saying is not entirely reflective of the product. That's not a communication problem, that's a problem with the people who are choosing what they say.
- 4,935
- Bulgaria
- 40,878
For GT5, sure. But considering how little GT6 actually changed over the fully patched GT5, how few of those changes couldn't have just been patched in to GT5, and how few of those changes weren't changes that made the game worse than GT5, I similarly cannot understand what justification there was to drop $60 on it if you already had GT5. I daresay if Sony hadn't shuttered the GT5 servers it would have remained popular online to this day.just a tiny little bit exaggerated?
