Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

  • Thread starter Formidable
  • 47,132 comments
  • 4,727,298 views
That's without dynamic weather and time of day I presume. :lol:. Anyway is it a rock solid 50? :banghead:

I'd much prefer a 1080/60 than a 2K/50.

Plus, I don't really miss dynamic weather and TOD. I mean Forza 6 omitted it, and that game turned out amazing. The only game with dynamic TOD/weather in recent memory was Project Cars (IIRC), and it didn't run at a stable/locked 60fps at times.
 
Sorry, my mistake here. I meant staying still, in the same place. I meant that, if you start playing in one position, you can't change it, otherwise it will mess the view (sitting on one side of the couch, and move to the other, for example). Not sure if this happens or not. Someone with hands on experience might clarify.
Gotcha.

Yes, there is a way to reorient your view if needed, using the buttons on the controller. This way you can move to different positions and then 'reset' the view.
 
When he says 2K he's essentially talking about 1080p, it's almost identical. 2K is 2048x1080.

50fps on base PS4 is seriously worrying.

But I'm honestly more offended by the article author. 'Grandmaster-level shade' would be cringe-worthy to read in the meat of the article itself, but to see it in a headline makes me want to slap the person. It's also ridiculously exaggerated, as there is no hostile slight against Forza in any of the quotes. Just a comparison and a comment about liking to do things all in-house.

Yeah I mean it's Kotaku, so the article framing is terrible but the Kaz quotes are just mind boggling.

We didn't want to just put it out with half the cars.

So he went with 20%, instead, I guess?

"If you think about it from the release of GT6, our cycles between release have been mostly the same,"

Yeah, too long.

But in terms of the release cycle for Gran Turismo, we're on track as usual."

What does on track mean? How is 3, possibly 4 years into a generation on track? I think he means delayed as usual.
 
I'd much prefer a 1080/60 than a 2K/50.

Plus, I don't really miss dynamic weather and TOD. I mean Forza 6 omitted it, and that game turned out amazing. The only game with dynamic TOD/weather in recent memory was Project Cars (IIRC), and it didn't run at a stable/locked 60fps at times.
I am pretty sure by '2k', he means 1080p.

I really wish people would stop using '2k' because it seems to mean very different things to different people.
 
So he went with 20%, instead, I guess?
Yea, I dont quite get that comment. GT Sport is coming out with a very small amount of cars, less than Forza Motorsport 5 did, which was highly criticized for it, and that was a Day 1 launch title. He should not be bragging about anything to do with numbers of cars. Should probably avoid the topic altogether if they want to be smart with their PR.

EDIT: Whoops, meant to edit this into my previous post.
 
Perfectly calm thanks. You, on the other hand, seem quite excitable. And the vast majority of what you have written is complete conjecture. How much VR experience do you have?

You didn't look calm, really. You took it rather personal and even gave an arrogant response, with a ";)" in the end, which can be taken as offensive, cynical and/or provocative.

And no, I never experienced VR yet, that's why I placed my doubts here. Instead, you run straight to the last post, read it, and made assumptions. Didn't answer to it or any of my other posts with any kind sensible response to change my opinion or clarify my doubts.

In an era where processing power is becoming cheaper and cheaper, screens are getting bigger and bigger and there are more and more finer detail in games, down to blades of grass and cracks in the tarmac, a quadrupling of resolution is anything but a gimmick. VR also isn't a gimmick if it enhances the gaming experience, much like a wheel isn't required for a racing sim, but it sure does enhance the experience. To me a gimmick is something that draws your attention and the hype surrounding it builds it up to be something it's not, and, ultimately, it's not worth the price you paid and is unsatisfying in the long term. I don't think 4K fits that definition, and if you're someone that can tolerate the VR headset and enjoys playing with it, I don't think it fits the definition of gimmicky either.

I still think 4k is a gimmick due to it being something that, at this point, costs a lot for what it offers. I'm speaking as of now, in a time where it is something expensive with little advantages. Yes it gives more immersion, but everything that uses 4k, is expensive. 4k Blu-ray are hugely expensive for what they're worth, there's not much content reproduced in 4k on tv right now, and most of the channels that do reproduce content in 4k, are paid ones. So this leaves us with the brand new PS4 Pro and PCs. PC to reproduce 4k, needs to be powerfull, which means it's expensive, which means that, by speaking with people who have really powerfull PCs, they think that, nowadays, it's still expensive for what it offers compared to 1080p monitors. That leaves us with the PS4, which might be the only thing to reproduce 4k at an somewhat reasonable price, and even then, for what I know from people who already own a normal PS4, it's not worth spending money on it just because of 4k. So, it still ends up being a gimmick, since it's a feature yet to be used to it's full potential, and it not necessary to your experience as a gamer and/or movie enthusiast, so it's an extra. And I repeat, I'm speaking about it, as of now, with the current price ranges and amount of content that could dilute the initial cost.

Maybe if I gave the example of 3D would be better. But the point still stands. 3D is something very expensive for the use most people give to it. It's one of those things that, in the beginning when is shinning new tech, everyone wants to try it, everyone wants movies in 3D, etc. As the time goes by, the hype about said technology went down and now , if someone has a budget for a TV, they will most likely choose a good normal 1080p TV over a 3D TV for that same price.

VR could suffer the same faith (although it doesn't have the same downsides to it as 3D), or not. The thing is, for now, it still appears to be a gimmick, whether it improves immersion or not. Not many games will feature it as a big part of them, and the one's who do, are not really big titles, instead titles made with VR in mind and almost solely for that purpose. There's no full Battlefield or Call of Duty or any other best selling titles that use VR as a major part of it, and I don't see them spending time and resources in making a full VR mode for their games. They keep doing what they are used to, and maybe in a 4/5 years time, when VR is a bigger thing in gaming, they will start to develop titles with that in mind. Until then, it will still be an option for both the gamer and the game dev's to buy/use it and produce content for it, respectively.

Your personal feelings might be different, but it seems to me you're speaking for everyone other than yourself here, not generally a wise thing to do.

No, I'm expressing a perspective of what VR looks like, to me and at this point in time. The "I don't see" should lead to that. The perspective that I have of VR is that it's expensive for what it offers, and many people will see the same. In fact, I don't imagine many people playing more than one hour straight, day after day, with VR, especially with the lack of content for that system. So, it's expensive for what it offers at this point. Of course not everyone will have the same perspective. A person that has an income per month of 10x the price of the VR will think it's not expensive at all. To a poor family, loosing 5€ could hit very hard, to a rich family loosing 1000 could make no difference whatsoever. Perspective.
Maybe one day comes a game that completely changes my mind about VR, until then, it feels like an extra that, if it was cheaper, could be worth the try. For now it's kind of a shot in the dark.
 
You didn't look calm, really. You took it rather personal and even gave an arrogant response, with a ";)" in the end, which can be taken as offensive, cynical and/or provocative.

And no, I never experienced VR yet, that's why I placed my doubts here. Instead, you run straight to the last post, read it, and made assumptions. Didn't answer to it or any of my other posts with any kind sensible response to change my opinion or clarify my doubts.

Zero experience. Says it all really ;)
 
Also what the heck is 50FPS/2K? :lol:

A diplomatic way to tell they can't achieve locked 60 fps on the original PS4.

I guess they mean they can drive future high dynamic range monitors that can display high dynamic range images without resorting to tone mapping the range down to the limited range of normal monitors.

A (theoretical) 10000 nits output will inevitably need tone mapping on every existing HDR TV out there. A Dolby Vision Pulsar monitor reportedly tops at 4000 nits, the higher end consumers HDR TV’s around 1500 in optimal conditions. There is strictly no need (and close to no way) to grade your HDR content with an effective 10000 nits peak brightness output at this point. Maybe Kaz was just generally referring to the actual limit of the SMPTE 2084 EOTF that is part of the HDR10 standard? :confused:
 
We have 200 staff dedicated to this title, everything from the rendering engine, game engine, everything is developed in-house, and that's always been the case since the first Gran Turismo. That is special, compared to others.

Yeah, the person who said that is sure looking around for someone to outsource to.



And nice to know that abandoning dynamic time and weather has potentially allowed them to fail to hit 60 FPS for the third game in a row.
 
Last edited:
I am actually down for Kaz outsourcing development of GT Sport. They seriously need more people working on the damn thing. 3 years is just the right amount of waiting time on a AAA game, moreso since Kaz claims development on the PS4 is easy. They need to adopt similar strategies used by other dev studios out there.

I think PD should stick to their in house modelling since its second to none in the industry. They just need to expand quicker. ND should be the model they follow, and ND, while still relatively small, has expanded notably and effectively over the PS3 generation.
 
A diplomatic way to tell they can't achieve locked 60 fps on the original PS4.


:confused:
A (theoretical) 10000 nits output will inevitably need tone mapping on every existing HDR TV out there. A Dolby Vision Pulsar monitor reportedly tops at 4000 nits, the higher end consumers HDR TV’s around 1500 in optimal conditions. There is strictly no need (and close to no way) to grade your HDR content with an effective 10000 nits peak brightness output at this point. Maybe Kaz was just generally referring to the actual limit of the SMPTE 2084 EOTF that is part of the HDR10 standard?


Why 2K resolution though? stick to 1080/60? I don't understand that quote/
 
So they failed to hit stable 60 fps on 1080p. I'm betting that is why they cut down VR mode. For me personally if it is not a CPU bottleneck I would gladly take VR with lower effects (but a full game) and switch between different play styles from time to time,

That's why they will probably lock some bigger tracks etc from VR.

GT5 fps Improved after updates. Maybe just maybe ....
 
A (theoretical) 10000 nits output will inevitably need tone mapping on every existing HDR TV out there. A Dolby Vision Pulsar monitor reportedly tops at 4000 nits, the higher end consumers HDR TV’s around 1500 in optimal conditions. There is strictly no need (and close to no way) to grade your HDR content with an effective 10000 nits peak brightness output at this point. Maybe Kaz was just generally referring to the actual limit of the SMPTE 2084 EOTF that is part of the HDR10 standard? :confused:

What i meant was if you want to drive a HDR monitor and want to show a surface that is less than 10000nits bright you can just output the brightness value of your renderer, if you have a rendering engine that calculates with linear brightness values. If you have a rendering engine that doesn't model the light sources with actual linear brightness then you have a problem. I guess they switched or finished switching to calculating with linear brightness internally (with tone mapping later) and that is what they mean with "new camera".
The blue sky on a sunny day is about 8000nits bright, so if you have a 10000nits monitor and want to show outdoor day scenes (without having the sun in view) you don't need tone-mapping. Of course in a racing simulation you often have the sun somewhere (reflections) or at night typical light sources are much brighter than 10000nits so you are right that some form of tone-mapping is needed to account for very bright sources, but even this mapping is of a different kind than the usual non-HDR tone mapping for a monitor that can only output 300nits. 10000nits are quite bright and the eye is glared already when looking at a spot with that much brightness in a dark environment (that isn't so dark if a monitor with that much output is in it :sly:).
 
For anyone at SEMA or in Las Vegas: GT Sport will be playable tonight at the Gran Turismo Awards, taking place at the Marquee Nightclub in The Cosmopolitan resort and hotel. I'm not sure of the build details yet, but it should be pretty fresh. I'll share as many details as I can.

The event is open to the public (regular restrictions to the Marquee club apply), but a SEMA badge should also grant you free entry. Send me a message if you're able to stop by!

I look forward to reading your opinion on latest demo :)
 
And no, I never experienced VR yet, that's why I placed my doubts here. Instead, you run straight to the last post, read it, and made assumptions. Didn't answer to it or any of my other posts with any kind sensible response to change my opinion or clarify my doubts.
You have a lot of negative opinions about something you've never tried.

I still think 4k is a gimmick due to it being something that, at this point, costs a lot for what it offers. I'm speaking as of now, in a time where it is something expensive with little advantages. Yes it gives more immersion, but everything that uses 4k, is expensive. 4k Blu-ray are hugely expensive for what they're worth, there's not much content reproduced in 4k on tv right now, and most of the channels that do reproduce content in 4k, are paid ones. So this leaves us with the brand new PS4 Pro and PCs. PC to reproduce 4k, needs to be powerfull, which means it's expensive, which means that, by speaking with people who have really powerfull PCs, they think that, nowadays, it's still expensive for what it offers compared to 1080p monitors. That leaves us with the PS4, which might be the only thing to reproduce 4k at an somewhat reasonable price, and even then, for what I know from people who already own a normal PS4, it's not worth spending money on it just because of 4k. So, it still ends up being a gimmick, since it's a feature yet to be used to it's full potential, and it not necessary to your experience as a gamer and/or movie enthusiast, so it's an extra. And I repeat, I'm speaking about it, as of now, with the current price ranges and amount of content that could dilute the initial cost.
4K tv's aren't expensive anymore. You can buy 4k tv's for a couple of hundred dollars more than a 1080p for a similar size. 4k tv's also automatically upscale, so even 1080p images look better than they do on a 1080p screen. Yes the content is more expensive but so is anything else for the early adopters, that's how the market works. PC's that can do 4k are more expensive but again, early adopters, that's how the market works. If you can't afford it you don't buy it, pretty simple. That doesn't make it a gimmick, it makes it like very other new tech, ever.

VR could suffer the same faith (although it doesn't have the same downsides to it as 3D), or not. The thing is, for now, it still appears to be a gimmick, whether it improves immersion or not. Not many games will feature it as a big part of them, and the one's who do, are not really big titles, instead titles made with VR in mind and almost solely for that purpose. There's no full Battlefield or Call of Duty or any other best selling titles that use VR as a major part of it, and I don't see them spending time and resources in making a full VR mode for their games. They keep doing what they are used to, and maybe in a 4/5 years time, when VR is a bigger thing in gaming, they will start to develop titles with that in mind. Until then, it will still be an option for both the gamer and the game dev's to buy/use it and produce content for it, respectively.
The tech is in it's infancy and the processing power of consoles hasn't quite caught up to what is need to reproduce games at a constant frame rate with outstanding graphics. Still doesn't make it a gimmick.

No, I'm expressing a perspective of what VR looks like, to me and at this point in time. The "I don't see" should lead to that. The perspective that I have of VR is that it's expensive for what it offers, and many people will see the same. In fact, I don't imagine many people playing more than one hour straight, day after day, with VR, especially with the lack of content for that system. So, it's expensive for what it offers at this point.
This doesn't sound like you're speaking for yourself, hence my comment:
Third, what's your point? That you and a couple of people you know are in love with such technology, that you became addicted to it? For the "normal" person, will they play that long? Will they play with VR systems everytime they load the game? Probably not. So, your point is...? It isn't a gimmick? Well, it is.
Of course not everyone will have the same perspective. A person that has an income per month of 10x the price of the VR will think it's not expensive at all. To a poor family, loosing 5€ could hit very hard, to a rich family loosing 1000 could make no difference whatsoever. Perspective.
That's not perspective, that's affordability. Again, new tech, early adopters, that's how the market works.
 
You should check out iRacing. It's pretty interesting.

Except there's only 2,000~ people online at any given day, and the most popular NASCAR Peak Anti Freeze Series video on Youtube has only 17k views (their biggest series), compared to the most popular CSGO e sport video having 6.8 million views.

And yes, I do hold an iRacing subscription, in fact I'm planning to buy another year :D
 
I think PD should stick to their in house modelling since its second to none in the industry. They just need to expand quicker. ND should be the model they follow, and ND, while still relatively small, has expanded notably and effectively over the PS3 generation.
Naughty Dog actually uses a whole lot of outsourcing help. ;)

So they failed to hit stable 60 fps on 1080p. I'm betting that is why they cut down VR mode. For me personally if it is not a CPU bottleneck I would gladly take VR with lower effects (but a full game) and switch between different play styles from time to time,

That's why they will probably lock some bigger tracks etc from VR.

GT5 fps Improved after updates. Maybe just maybe ....
If it's a CPU bottleneck, it's probably less an issue of graphics or track sizes, but of physics and car counts. Things that are much harder to 'compromise' on.
 
GT Sport will run at 1080p, 60fps (no solid maybe) on PS4 vanilla.

Personally, I didn't have issue with framerate when I played at Gamescom.
 
@tarnheld

I wasn't considering the rendering engine but the outputted signal; while you can indeed code a 10000 nits value in a 10 bit HDR signal, there is just no TV panel out there that will be able to accurately display it. With anything above 1500 nits being either arbitrary rolled-off (or even worse clipped) on even the best HDR displays available today you may wonder how practical this new "camera" will end up being.
 
So the same as last gen. Minus dynamic time and weather. It's not a great achievement, is it?



Ah yes, the amazing Gamescom build that nobody else has seen with amazing AI, perfect framerate and more.

All the hype about 4K, VR, does not change that the game is still in PS2 era.
 
Zero experience. Says it all really ;)

So, because I haven't experienced VR, I can't express my doubts about it? Isn't this a forum for, huh, discussion?
Yet, you as such an experienced person in VR technology, fail to point out anything that helps clarify my doubts. You fail to bring to the table any point to the discussion other than "I played 3h straight with VR".
This says it all really, about your maturity towards the discussion, when others politely clarified my doubts.

You have a lot of negative opinions about something you've never tried.

I have doubts, which is different than opinions. So yeah, if those doubts are potential negative sides to this product, I'd like them to be clarified.

4K tv's aren't expensive anymore. You can buy 4k tv's for a couple of hundred dollars more than a 1080p for a similar size. 4k tv's also automatically upscale, so even 1080p images look better than they do on a 1080p screen. Yes the content is more expensive but so is anything else for the early adopters, that's how the market works. PC's that can do 4k are more expensive but again, early adopters, that's how the market works. If you can't afford it you don't buy it, pretty simple. That doesn't make it a gimmick, it makes it like very other new tech, ever.

A couple hundred bucks is still a lot of money... And it's not about comparing side-by-side their price, it's about spending extra money replacing a 1080p tv/monitor, for a 4k. Is it worth it if you alredy own a TV that's already good and in perfect conditions? Probably not. The advantages that you will get from it, are not that big.

The tech is in it's infancy and the processing power of consoles hasn't quite caught up to what is need to reproduce games at a constant frame rate with outstanding graphics. Still doesn't make it a gimmick.

You basically disagree, by agreeing. At this point, 4k is not worth the money because it's in its earliest state, which means has yet to reach its full potential, specially in terms of content, which was basically what I said. It will be worth it when, 1-the prices get lower, or 2-there is more content available to be reproduced in 4k.

This doesn't sound like you're speaking for yourself, hence my comment:

It's fairly simple. He brought up the point that he plays with VR for 3h straight, and I pointed out that, probably, not many people will be playing the same way as he does. The player base and the content available right now do not favour that type of technology to be used for extra long time. Maybe in a couple of years this changes, but right now, games for VR seem fairly limited, and the big names in the gaming industry are not fully focused on this feature, yet.

That's not perspective, that's affordability. Again, new tech, early adopters, that's how the market works.

Affordability automatically changes the perspective of what's expensive or not. A rich person will have a different perspective of the price of a car, compared to a middle class person.
 
Back