Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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Someone had to do it, right?
This thread needs a bit of sense of humor from time to time.

The original GT hit a sweet spot: it was approachable and in-depth, satisfying both the casuals and the hardcore. The wide car list and tuning options were great, but they didn't alienate people who didn't understand the finer points. Joe Gamer could build a 900hp GTO and even without going into the tuning menu, it would be reasonably competitive.

The original formula was the best way to do. The problem came when people started asking too much from that same formula. Now we see a bunch of people wanting it to be as realistic as the top end Sims, and a bunch of people wanting the complete opposite, like a Horizon type GT.

It's kind of silly to ask questions like "when will PD listen to their fans?", when everybody wants something different. A set percentage of the player base wants ultra realistic physics, others want everything associated with how the game looks, others just want a ton of features and content overall. Then come the comparisons, "Oh, this game has better physics than GT, GT sucks", "This game has better graphics, GT sucks", "This game has an open world, GT sucks". It comes to the point where it's ridiculous, GT having to compete with every type of game in the market.

Anyway, GT should always feel like the middle ground between hardcore sims, and arcade racing games. It should be a good game that pleases most of the people who come from those opposite types of games. No one should really expect GT to beat all the other games, at the same time.
 
The original formula was the best way to do. The problem came when people started asking too much from that same formula. Now we see a bunch of people wanting it to be as realistic as the top end Sims, and a bunch of people wanting the complete opposite, like a Horizon type GT.

I wouldn't say it was the best, unless we're arguing that from a sales-numbers perspective. And even then, we'd need some hard proof that the formula was what resonated so well with buyers.

(Though, I agree; for me personally, I prefer GT's formula over most other games in the genre. 👍 )

It's kind of silly to ask questions like "when will PD listen to their fans?", when everybody wants something different.

You'll note, more often than not, the people accusing PD of not listening to their fanbase are those that aren't having their own personal demands met. ;)

A set percentage of the player base wants ultra realistic physics, others want everything associated with how the game looks, others just want a ton of features and content overall. Then come the comparisons, "Oh, this game has better physics than GT, GT sucks", "This game has better graphics, GT sucks", "This game has an open world, GT sucks". It comes to the point where it's ridiculous, GT having to compete with every type of game in the market.

The thing is, this is true of every game in the genre. Every game gets compared with the rest of its contemporaries; it's not unique to GT.

Arguably, more so than most of the competition, GT has long staked its reputation on being a jack-of-all-trades game anyway, so there is reason for people to want it to continue that by including what it is missing from the rest of the genre. It's one of the reasons why I'm skeptical of GT Sport's chances at sales success; its a completely different sort of game.

Anyway, GT should always feel like the middle ground between hardcore sims, and arcade racing games. It should be a good game that pleases most of the people who come from those opposite types of games. No one should really expect GT to beat all the other games, at the same time.

It should be whatever Polyphony wants it to be, really. 👍

I agree. I hate when people compare GT to every game that has cars in it. It's not fair. GT is in a genre of its own, imo. It's not comparable with anything else.

Resisting the urge to use the "Leave Britney Alone" meme...

GT isn't a genre unto itself. It's a racing game. It's the most successful single-platform semi-realistic racing franchise, but it's still just a racing game. Nobody would dare suggest Call of Duty is a "genre of its own".

I'm sure you've heard the saying "competition breeds excellence". If every game were walled off from comparisons within its genre, it would stagnate. GT — and every other game we feature here on GTPlanet — needs to be compared to the competition, so that it can continue to improve.

Besides, if we're going by the original GT formula, GT Sport isn't even the most GT-like game (to be) available on current-gen consoles these days (based on what we know of it, anyway): Forza Motorsport 6 is.
 
Resisting the urge to use the "Leave Britney Alone" meme...
Oh, grow up. I didn't mean it how you interpreted it. I simply mean you can't compare GT to DriveClub because it doesn't belong to the same type of game. Sure, both are racers. But they're miles apart.
GT isn't a genre unto itself. It's a racing game. It's the most successful single-platform semi-realistic racing franchise, but it's still just a racing game. Nobody would dare suggest Call of Duty is a "genre of its own".
I just meant it's unique. That kind of "genre". No other games matched GT when it was made. Not for several years until Forza came along and began to copy its unique recipe.

That's not really true, though. Older GT, or new, there is similar games.
Sure, but there wasn't any similar games before Forza.

Don't overcomplicate my post and you'll understand what I mean. GT is GT. It's unique and one of a kind.
Sure, there are better games out there in terms of physics+++ but the core of GT will always be the best.
 
Sure, but there wasn't any similar games before Forza.

Don't overcomplicate my post and you'll understand what I mean. GT is GT. It's unique and one of a kind.
Sure, there are better games out there in terms of physics+++ but the core of GT will always be the best.
You're the only one over complicating it by moving the goal posts. First it was that there isn't any game similar, and now it's that there isn't anything similar besides Forza.

GT is GT, no one is refuting that, it has its own quirks, but it is not the only game doing what it does. GT being the best is purely subjective.
 
I wouldn't say it was the best, unless we're arguing that from a sales-numbers perspective. And even then, we'd need some hard proof that the formula was what resonated so well with buyers.

(Though, I agree; for me personally, I prefer GT's formula over most other games in the genre. 👍 )

In a sales perspective, the old formula made it the "go to" game for those who wanted one game that could offer a lot, so is, atleast in part, a reason to outsell the rest of the games in the genre that are very limited by comparison.
It was the best because it offered a bit of both worlds along with some GT'ness to it.
Now, imagine that classic formula, with the improved physics from GTS, the improved sounds we got so far, the good looks of the game on ps3 (or even ps4), and a constantly updated car and track list. Wouldn't that make it a great game? Only lacking improved AI, that could be improved over the game's life cycle.

You'll note, more often than not, the people accusing PD of not listening to their fanbase are those that aren't having their own personal demands met. ;)

And this brings a problem, if a certain part of the fanbase wants X feature, and the other part wants the complete opposite, what should they do?
The standard cars were example of that, some people didn't want them in the game, others wanted. PD had to choose, and choosing would automatically be taken by those that weren't favored by that choice as "they don't listen to their fans". And this is a problem. There is no "greater good" in those arguments. The "greater good" probably says no to hardcore sim physics in GT, but those that want that, will say PD doesn't listen to them, as their fans.
Even the sounds suffer from that division in the fanbase. Some want realistic sounds, others exaggerated and ultra loud ones.

The thing is, this is true of every game in the genre. Every game gets compared with the rest of its contemporaries; it's not unique to GT.

Arguably, more so than most of the competition, GT has long staked its reputation on being a jack-of-all-trades game anyway, so there is reason for people to want it to continue that by including what it is missing from the rest of the genre. It's one of the reasons why I'm skeptical of GT Sport's chances at sales success; its a completely different sort of game.

I partially agree. Pretty much all the games are compared to others just because they have cars, which is wrong. But GT tends to be attacked from every side from people wanting it to be everything each of those games are, separately.

Being a jack-of-all-trades doesn't mean the game has to be the best in everything. When there are things, such as the Livery Editor, that are missing from GT, then it makes sense to ask for them. But when people ask for gameplay features (like the physics from hardcore sims), it becomes impossible to make a game that is enjoyable to almost everyone. There are features that are specific to a certain type of game in the genre, others are not.
And I'm also skeptical about this game, but I will give it a try, mainly because I love cars and GT always gave me the best, most confortable, feel while driving them. Is neither too easy or too hard, to drive the cars. The content is the only thing that makes me concerned.

It should be whatever Polyphony wants it to be, really. 👍

Yes, it will always depend on their vision of the game. And their vision from the past, was the one that I enjoyed the most and probably a lot more people will miss that.
 
And this brings a problem, if a certain part of the fanbase wants X feature, and the other part wants the complete opposite, what should they do?

In this day and age, keep looking at their back end data to see what, and what not is enjoyed and used within the game. It's absolutely pointless looking at what is written here or anywhere else to be honest.

Actually, to put it in to perspective to how little this forum is compared to the bigger picture, if you read all 11.3 million messages ever written on this whole forum, you still have not come close to the total of GT5 copies sold worldwide. The only people who will have any sort of grasp to what the overwhelming but silent majority want or like, are the people with the back end data.

What the dozens of regular people here think is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things to be honest. Sure, you might get an idea of what people want, but as you said, everyone's idea differs to some degree.
 
I have to disagree with that. Marketing could have helped to a degree but as you stated later, Sims are considered boring to many players out there. Boring, in my eyes, is the 800 lb gorilla in the room that no one really wants to talk about.

Well I think marketing does play a decent role in sales, in any videogame genre. Look at the best selling sims: GT and Forza. They both have epic marketing campaigns behind them, and they are no less "boring" than other sims, yet they sell significantly more. Of course, the public perception of racing sims is a bigger factor in why they don't sell well, but the Gran Turismo franchise by itself has proven that if marketed right, a racing sim can sell stratospheric numbers.
 
This is a perfect example of "when you know you're wrong and cant make any half decent debate in return so you just come up with sarcasm". Nice! Have a good day!

Ah, the old "WYKYWACMAHDDIRSYJCUWS" defense. A staple of forums everywhere, from reddit all the way back to the birth of IGN.

Actually, I think it's more of the "when you know arguing with someone who treats their opinions as fact is a complete and total waste of your time, so you refuse to attempt any logical discussion and instead put as little effort as possible into interacting with them" approach.

Oh and...

Nice! Have a good day!

So you get to be sarcastic but I don't? That's no fun!
 
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Yeah, PD keep making stupid choices in their games, and taking forever to make them, but it's all Sony's fault, sure. Convenient that you'll blame GT5's delay on Sony wanting 3D, whilst ignoring all the many other useless gimmicks PD put in their games. This is the Dev that put a feature in their game that only a small handful of people in the entire world could actually use. The same dev that took two whole years after releasing a game to put a course maker in it, after the previous game already having one that wasn't much worse. PD don't need Sony's help to take forever to make their games, they're desperately slow enough all by themselves.

From PS3 Era the Story says that PD's moves is under the order of Sony...
A Dev or the president of a studio can't deny a order from the Owner of PD....



pcars has better graphics than GT6, but more importantly, the visuals in Pcars are actually consistent. The very best looking of the premium cars in GT6 are probably better than the cars in Pcars, but only on the outside. Pcars has everything modeled, even under the bonnet and such, for it's damage model. GT6's premiums are just an empty shell, which is why PD never bothered trying to make a half decent damage model, because they'd have to make all the car models again from scratch.

I don't want to continue this conversation about graphics....
1st we will never find who is right and 2nd we are at the wrong threat to compare graphics
So is better to discontinue this...

Also, saying Pcars without weather or day/night doesn't have as good graphics as GTS is a bit weird, since the whole point I made in the comment you quoted was that I would prefer the game has dynamic time and weather than photorealistic visuals, and that a racing sim doesn't need any better graphics than Pcars has. Kaz chasing once again after having the best visuals is the reason the game is taking forever, and the reason it'll likely once again not be a great sim. It'll be a pretty photomode sim, not a good racing sim.

Yes Kaz chasing for one more time the best graphics and new achievements in his game and for one more time since the very first GT1
all the other Dev can copy those achievements for their next games.

Also we are speaking for GT not for drive club so you believe that the Physics dev from PD is working now on CGI?
Are you kidding me?
I was trying and testing for 4days the GTS demo at Nurburgring's event and i feel huge jump yes in this early demo (something like GT5P to GT6) on the feeling of the car...
Do you ever try this demo????
And for the end
if the GT 5-6 it wasn't a good sim we know it from people that Racing in real life...
Also from some friends of me, friends that spend thousands km in the track searching for the
Hundredths of a second....

They love GT and they can tell you a lot of good things about the movement the reaction of the cars and the PD's special wheel feeling!!

GT is not the best sim out there but have this special wheel-car feeling (not the car collisions) that a big number of people that knows about Racing in real life
They love it... ...


make the game as pretty as possible, and end up with buggy unrealistic physics.

If is gonna be a buggy unrealistic game let the future say this.....
 
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The proportion of each will be down to each development team. It's really not surprising that Driveclub looks as well as it does. That's where the effort went, nor is it surprising what AC looks like. They spend the effort on physics.

Well, that and the fact that Evolution was a reasonably large and well funded first party studio, and Kunos is a bunch of guys in a garage. Regardless of what they chose to spend their man hours on, Evolution had a lot more man hours to spend.

Oh, grow up. I didn't mean it how you interpreted it. I simply mean you can't compare GT to DriveClub because it doesn't belong to the same type of game. Sure, both are racers. But they're miles apart.

In many ways they're actually remarkably similar. Both have a strong online focus. Both are extremely graphics intensive, to the extent that it's one of the main selling points. Both are attempting to appeal to a wide audience.

I think both games dedication to graphics and online alone is enough to be worth comparing them, at least in those areas.

Sure, but there wasn't any similar games before Forza.

Enthusia. Sega GT. I'm sure there are probably others.

Don't overcomplicate my post and you'll understand what I mean. GT is GT. It's unique and one of a kind.

It's really not. Other developers have been fiddling around with parts of the GT formula since GT1, when it became obvious that people liked that style of game. GT hasn't been unique for a long time now.
 
In a sales perspective, the old formula made it the "go to" game for those who wanted one game that could offer a lot, so is, atleast in part, a reason to outsell the rest of the games in the genre that are very limited by comparison.
It was the best because it offered a bit of both worlds along with some GT'ness to it.
Now, imagine that classic formula, with the improved physics from GTS, the improved sounds we got so far, the good looks of the game on ps3 (or even ps4), and a constantly updated car and track list. Wouldn't that make it a great game? Only lacking improved AI, that could be improved over the game's life cycle.



And this brings a problem, if a certain part of the fanbase wants X feature, and the other part wants the complete opposite, what should they do?
The standard cars were example of that, some people didn't want them in the game, others wanted. PD had to choose, and choosing would automatically be taken by those that weren't favored by that choice as "they don't listen to their fans". And this is a problem. There is no "greater good" in those arguments. The "greater good" probably says no to hardcore sim physics in GT, but those that want that, will say PD doesn't listen to them, as their fans.
Even the sounds suffer from that division in the fanbase. Some want realistic sounds, others exaggerated and ultra loud ones.



I partially agree. Pretty much all the games are compared to others just because they have cars, which is wrong. But GT tends to be attacked from every side from people wanting it to be everything each of those games are, separately.

Being a jack-of-all-trades doesn't mean the game has to be the best in everything. When there are things, such as the Livery Editor, that are missing from GT, then it makes sense to ask for them. But when people ask for gameplay features (like the physics from hardcore sims), it becomes impossible to make a game that is enjoyable to almost everyone. There are features that are specific to a certain type of game in the genre, others are not.
And I'm also skeptical about this game, but I will give it a try, mainly because I love cars and GT always gave me the best, most confortable, feel while driving them. Is neither too easy or too hard, to drive the cars. The content is the only thing that makes me concerned.



Yes, it will always depend on their vision of the game. And their vision from the past, was the one that I enjoyed the most and probably a lot more people will miss that.
This is the issue facing PD right now. Who do you listen to? You can't have everything in this game people. For the sake of the business argument, you have to impress the majority - some minorities will never be satisfied; that's just the way it is. GT will NEVER be a hardcore sim, but it can get close to one. It would completely ruin the franchise, more so than any e-Sport venture ever could. You see, the sales of a GT would game would fall dramatically if the game focused purely on sounds and physics - I simply CANNOT imagine a GT game like that. Could you? It would be great for the hardcore player, but not the average one.

One thing which could make this game great is the way it's marketed. You see, most people do NOT consider Motor Racing a sport as such, because people just don't know what the physical demands are at the highest level. The best racing drivers are elite athletes, just like the guys and girls who play baseball, football, soccer, cricket, basketball, WHATEVER sport it is. If GT market this as a "sports" video game like 2K and Fifa, I reckon the success would be huge.
 
This is the issue facing PD right now. Who do you listen to? You can't have everything in this game people. For the sake of the business argument, you have to impress the majority - some minorities will never be satisfied; that's just the way it is. GT will NEVER be a hardcore sim, but it can get close to one. It would completely ruin the franchise, more so than any e-Sport venture ever could. You see, the sales of a GT would game would fall dramatically if the game focused purely on sounds and physics - I simply CANNOT imagine a GT game like that. Could you? It would be great for the hardcore player, but not the average one.

One thing which could make this game great is the way it's marketed. You see, most people do NOT consider Motor Racing a sport as such, because people just don't know what the physical demands are at the highest level. The best racing drivers are elite athletes, just like the guys and girls who play baseball, football, soccer, cricket, basketball, WHATEVER sport it is. If GT market this as a "sports" video game like 2K and Fifa, I reckon the success would be huge.
They'd have to pick a series though. ToCA 1&2 worked because they were BTCC focused(ToCA 2 also had TVRs and a Jaguar-I think). F1 works because it's F1 focused.

GT1-4 worked because the core game was buy & collect. PD have missed out on perfecting the buying & collecting of cars. Even if all players walked around in racing suits, interacting with dealerships and forming race teams, assigning friends as pit crew, challenging other players in pit crew times during online races or PlayStation link games, that is how GT should have been if they were trying to engage new and old players to the franchise.

Edit: I have to type something else. Wasn't Kaz in the Japan photo mode? How in the world are we not given him as an avatar? Just his helmet. Where is a Seji Ara avatars? Today's games feature avatars that we can pretend to be. Whether fictional of actual sports players or race drivers. Forget licencing. Why can't we create a player that interacts with the game environment. I believe it's something they have no interest in when the rest of the gaming world does.
 
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From PS3 Era the Story says that PD's moves is under the order of Sony...
A Dev or the president of a studio can't deny a order from the Owner of PD....

If you're going to continue to claim that the many delays GT games have had are all due to Sony demanding extra things be put into the games, you'll need to back this up with sources.


Also we are speaking for GT not for drive club so you believe that the Physics dev from PD is working now on CGI?
Are you kidding me?

No, nor did I say anything of the sort. Focusing so much of the PS4's grunt on the graphics will leave far less for the Physics. PD do this with every game though, so it's not surprising. The higher graphical fidelity is also why they haven't been able to put dynamic time of day and weather in GTS. It's got nothing to do with a "physics dev" working on "CGI", it's about PD using up way too much of the PS4's resources on making the game pretty.


I was trying and testing for 4days the GTS demo at Nurburgring's event and i feel huge jump yes in this early demo (something like GT5P to GT6) on the feeling of the car...
Do you ever try this demo????

No I haven't, but your own personal anecdote means nothing to me, considering your fanatical defending of PD and GT, and your profile pic of you hugging Kaz, you don't come across as particularly impartial.


And for the end
if the GT 5-6 it wasn't a good sim we know it from people that Racing in real life...

If you're referring to promotional material with real racers endorsing GT games, they're as worthless as professionals endorsing any product they have been paid to do so. These people were paid to say good things about the game. Put it this way: I've yet to see any real racing team using GT to test setups or for driver practice and training... :lol:


They love GT and they can tell you a lot of good things about the movement the reaction of the cars and the PD's special wheel feeling!!

"Special wheel feeling"?? You mean force feedback? Because GT games have never had particularly great force feedback.


GT is not the best sim out there but have this special wheel-car feeling (not the car collisions) that a big number of people that knows about Racing in real life
They love it... ...

People that know about racing in real life love GT? What do you mean by "know about racing"? Do you mean they know that racing exists? They watch racing? Or are you trying to say that real life professional racers love GT? Because if it's the third option, which I suspect is what you were trying to claim, I'm gonna need some good sources for that.

Now, just so you know, I have a (brief) real life competitive racing background, and have owned and raced a few track day cars, and spent countless days driving hard on tarmac rally roads in various road cars I've owned over the years, so I'm well aware of how a car behaves at the limit. GT games in the past have had quite simple physics for a sim, and are demonstrably unrealistic in that changing the setup of the car produces unrealistic results in every GT game I've played (which is every GT game).

Given that GTS is a brand new game, I would be expecting the physics to be better, but better than GT6 isn't hard to achieve. GT6 was already way behind Forza 4, which itself was well behind PC sims. From the videos of GTS I've seen, I haven't seen very realistic looking car behaviour. I'll reserve final judgement for when it comes out and I can give it a go, but I'm fully expecting it to be a small step up from GT6, with the same focus on graphics at the cost of gameplay and physics that I've come to expect from the series, and the same setup oddities that lead to hilariously unrealistic exploit setups being at the heart of all the top leaderboard times.
 
If you're going to continue to claim that the many delays GT games have had are all due to Sony demanding extra things be put into the games, you'll need to back this up with sources.

Yeah, I bet Sony was just standing over Kaz's shoulder thinking of ways they could get GT PSP to get pushed all the way to the end of 2009; and taking time off from working on GT5 to do so.

:lol:
 
Are we still doing that thing where we look at all the different online stores and treat whatever placeholder they come up with as the release date?

It's different from the other placeholders. Not 31/12/2017 and it's the biggest french reseller in videogames.
The Last Guardian : 07/12/2016 is also a Wednesday. (http://www.micromania.fr/the-last-guardian-69766.html) And it's a first party game.
Nothing official for sure.
 
As i'm planning and "working" to do something, i looked at how many times did we get "major" info's about the game and it seems to notice how there isn't plenty of major news.

Like it started with an announcement on the Paris Games Week then almost dead silent until that Cooper Event and E3 then another dead silent until we heard a delay from them and then HDR and PSVR support at a PS4 Pro London Event. That's like only 3 events/news! (i wouldn't count E3 since the only thing that's new was a trailer). All we see now is just that same/similar demo build we see in gaming events around the world.

I just hope we going to see actual news about the game and it's progress, probably revealing some new stuff. As Much as i'm having a blast with Forza, i can't wait until i come back to you GT (as longs as you get improved). If things are going as i'm thinking, i'm expecting to be able to try out the demo on January next year, considering a small local Sony Event will be held where i live. Hopefully i can share my opinions about the game and maybe record some footage?
 
So, PD have about 3 months to complete this game, with the last month to distribute. Might as well change the name to "Patches 2".
 
I wouldn't put much stock in that date. It was only last month people were taking the guy who said it was coming out in January as gospel.
 
a51f1dea37.png
15th March 2017?

Whilst I'm personally expecting it to come out in the first half of 2017 rather than the second I'd avoid coming to any specific conclusions based simply upon the fact that anticipating an unconfirmed date will only serve to disappoint.

I'm sure we'll get a new release date soon. Probably. Maybe.
 
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