Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Soundtrack]

They would need to make Forza 7 for Scorpio userbase of ZERO first ...

Isn't that what launch titles usually do? I have no clue what Microsoft policy is regarding scorpio/xbone retro compatibility but why would you exclude a first party studio to take advantage of a new released platform?

 

[AudiMan2011]

Isn't that what launch titles usually do? I have no clue what Microsoft policy is regarding scorpio/xbone retro compatibility but why would you exclude a first party studio to take advantage of a new released platform?

MS said at E3 that Scorpio will play XB1 games, but given the colossal 🤬-up they made at the XB1 announcement, I wouldn't go holding out for long. Whether or not there will be dual launches on both XB1 and Scorpio is my cause for concern.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Forza 7? Because iRacing and AC aren't the most beautiful games...
I love the solid 60 fps in Forza 6 but the lighting and reflections are so inconsistent. The cockpit view immersion is killed by the 30 fps mirrors for example. FH3 is the first Forza with a good lighting and I hope Forza 7 will improve it.

rFactor 2 will be at CES (or at least, a custom build of it), as part of the Visa Vegas (nee "Road to Vegas") eSports event.

Meh, the 30fps mirrors don't bother me that much unless I'm just watching gameplay; I'm only ever glancing at them when I'm racing. Both Forza and GT don't simulate particle effects in the rearview mirror, and I find that more of an immersion killer than the mirror running at half the framerate.

Also assuming that both games release around roughly the similar time frame, then, whew, I'd loooove to see how this forum explodes in the aftermaths of someone making those Vs. images and posting them here.

Calling it now: even on Scorpio, FM7 won't look better than the best parts of GTS. Few racing devs get as much out of their platform as Polyphony does. Of course, few take so long to release a single game, too.

MS said at E3 that Scorpio will play XB1 games, but given the colossal 🤬-up they made at the XB1 announcement, I wouldn't go holding out for long. Whether or not there will be dual launches on both XB1 and Scorpio is my cause for concern.

I'd like to think the past three years have shown Microsoft acknowledged the mistakes that we saw at E3 2013. It backtracked on a lot of the sillier plans for the One, and have really pushed forward with their backwards compatibility program. I sure hope it wouldn't be so willing to shoot its foot again by not releasing its premier racing title on the original One at all.

 

[JKgo]

Calling it now: even on Scorpio, FM7 won't look better than the best parts of GTS. Few racing devs get as much out of their platform as Polyphony does. Of course, few take so long to release a single game, too.

...That could very well happen too, but I'm not a betting man. So I'll take a pass, if you don't mind....

 

[chengman]

Meanwhile I'm just waiting for polyphony to realise how much money they're not making by not making a PC port of GTS. Don't have to work with hardware limitations for example

 

[Tired Tyres]

Meanwhile I'm just waiting for polyphony to realise how much money they're not making by not making a PC port of GTS. Don't have to work with hardware limitations for example

Practically none. How many copies of AC or PC sold? 3-400,000? The PC might have a massive install userbase but it is massively fragmented.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Meanwhile I'm just waiting for polyphony to realise how much money they're not making by not making a PC port of GTS. Don't have to work with hardware limitations for example

Adding onto what @Tired Tyres said, it's very unlikely Sony would let one of their few remaining cash cow franchises head to PC, and thus, stop being a system seller.

Not having hardware limitations would arguably be even more of an issue than the current PlayStation exclusive situation. Polyphony always aims past the hardware it's currently working with; can you imagine that translating well to an ecosystem that is constantly updating? GT would end up stuck in a perpetual cycle of planning for the next big thing.

 

[queleuleu]

The gap between XB1 and the Scorpio is much bigger than between the PS4 and PS4 pro. Which means compromises will be bigger for Forza because they have to share the same engine on both plateforms. If like Microsoft says, the Scorpio is not a new gen, Xbox live will be the same for the two consoles and the original Xbox will restrict greatly new features like dynamic TOD/weather.
True 4k unlike the PS4 pro but with the same tech than on XB1.

 

[Tornado]

And Sony has spent the past half decade divesting all of their PC operations as well.

 

[05XR8]

Plus the 3years developing HDR for a console.

 

[Samus]

Gran Turismo isn't going to be on PC just as much as Uncharted, The Last Of Us, God Of War etc isn't going to be.

Polyphony are, for all intents and purposes, Sony. They're not an independent studio who can decide what is best for their franchise.

 

[dipsetab]

well at this point they should polish up on some esport ideas (witch i highly doubt they care about for now) i hope for more tracks to get added

 

[Samus]

I can't see them adding more tracks when they haven't even finished the ones they already have. Remember before the delay was announced there was a presentation where the track count went down to 15, presumably because if it did release in November they knew they wouldn't all be ready.

 

[dipsetab]

I can't see them adding more tracks when they haven't even finished the ones they already have. Remember before the delay was announced there was a presentation where the track count went down to 15, presumably because if it did release in November they knew they wouldn't all be ready.

true PD has a lot on their plate before they can say anything fun related

 

[Imari]

Practically none. How many copies of AC or PC sold? 3-400,000? The PC might have a massive install userbase but it is massively fragmented.

Yeah, 400k copies x ~$20 profit apiece is only $8 million. Practically none.

There are good reasons for Sony not wanting GT on PC, but because it wouldn't make money isn't one of them.

 

[SlimCharles]

"Wolfgang Porsche, chairman of Porsche SE, center, looks on as Martin Winterkorn, chief executive officer of Volkswagen AG, left, shanks hands with Kazunori Yamauchi, president of Polyphony Digital, during the IAA Frankfurt Motor Show in Frankfurt, Germany, on Tuesday, Sept. 15, 2015"

I hope they talked about a deal

I dont believe its irrelevant. 2015 is too far away from today, if they had a deal it should show up already (like AC deal or Iracing). And Winterkorn, the men who "knew every single bolt in his cars", was fired after dieselgate.

Yeah, 400k copies x ~$20 profit apiece is only $8 million. Practically none.

There are good reasons for Sony not wanting GT on PC, but because it wouldn't make money isn't one of them.

I believe that's a lot of money for Kunos. They have spent 5 million in the game.

Also I think GT would sold a lot in PC. Probably not console figures, but still, a lot.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Yeah, 400k copies x ~$20 profit apiece is only $8 million. Practically none.

There are good reasons for Sony not wanting GT on PC, but because it wouldn't make money isn't one of them.

There's no way that number can be correct. AC hasn't sold at the same price since its release - there are always sales of one sort or another on Steam.

That's if the cut they make is correct anyway. Then there's development cost.

In PD's case. Estimated annual cost around GT5 time at 12 million a year. A lot more staff and licences than Kunos of course, but I seem to remember Stefano saying they had gone from 30k budget to seven digits. I might not be remembering that correctly though.

Sales numbers like that for PD would not support a profit for them on PC. The game would have to change drastically both in scope and staff levels for that to happen. It simply wouldn't be Gran anything anymore then.

 

[Imari]

There's no way that number can be correct. AC hasn't sold at the same price since its release - there are always sales of one sort or another on Steam.

That's if the cut they make is correct anyway. Then there's development cost.

In PD's case. Estimated annual cost around GT5 time at 12 million a year. A lot more staff and licences than Kunos of course, but I seem to remember Stefano saying they had gone from 30k budget to seven digits. I might not be remembering that correctly though.

Sales numbers like that for PD would not support a profit for them on PC. The game would have to change drastically both in scope and staff levels for that to happen. It simply wouldn't be Gran anything anymore then.

I'm sorry, did we skip from talking about a PC port to a PC only release of GTS somewhere in there? I'm pretty sure it doesn't take a whole 200 person studio years to port an already working on console game. One that presumably already paid for itself with console sales too.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I'm sorry, did we skip from talking about a PC port to a PC only release of GTS somewhere in there? I'm pretty sure it doesn't take a whole 200 person studio years to port an already working on console game. One that presumably already paid for itself with console sales too.

True enough, AC was ported to PS4 and Xbox1 by two people plus Stefano when needed.

PD is a first party of Sony. Their purpose is to support Sony consoles. Nothing else. Microsoft can release their stuff on PC 'cos Windows but it is not PD's job to assist them in selling OS's with either a none optimised port aimed at the large variable spec of PCs or optimise it for a tiny number of high end PCs.

 

[Imari]

True enough, AC was ported to PS4 and Xbox1 by two people plus Stefano when needed.

PD is a first party of Sony. Their purpose is to support Sony consoles. Nothing else. Microsoft can release their stuff on PC 'cos Windows but it is not PD's job to assist them in selling OS's with either a none optimised port aimed at the large variable spec of PCs or optimise it for a tiny number of high end PCs.

That's why I said there are good reasons for them not to port it to PC, but money isn't one of them.

Look.

There are good reasons for Sony not wanting GT on PC, but because it wouldn't make money isn't one of them.

Come on. It's hardly a complicated concept I'm trying to get across here. You suggested that there's basically no money to be made by a Gran Turismo port on PC. That's obviously bollocks the moment anyone does basic math on it, a PC version would be basically guaranteed to make at least as much money as it cost to port and then some.

But there are plenty of other reasons why Sony/Polyphony won't and probably shouldn't make a port. As you identified above. But not because there's no money to be made on PC.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

Come on. It's hardly a complicated concept I'm trying to get across here. You suggested that there's basically no money to be made by a Gran Turismo port on PC. That's obviously bollocks the moment anyone does basic math on it, a PC version would be basically guaranteed to make at least as much money as it cost to port and then some.

But there are plenty of other reasons why Sony/Polyphony won't and probably shouldn't make a port. As you identified above. But not because there's no money to be made on PC.

The problem is that the concept you are trying to get across is flawed and makes little sense from Sony's standpoint. That's not making Sony money, that's potentially losing Sony money.

 

[dipsetab]

The problem is that the concept you are trying to get across is flawed and makes little sense from Sony's standpoint. That's not making Sony money, that's potentially losing Sony money.

Ding witch brings me to... what will it take to make GTS a hit and shift racing games as a whole to esports? I've been thinking about this for awhile.

 

[queleuleu]

Another car pack for FH3 here, another one for AC there. It's like Poly is an indie dev with a small budget. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more cars as DLC in FH3 than all the cars known so far in GTsport. A whole year of GT3 cars and Brands Hatch/Nurb... That's the answer of a first party dev. Unfortunately for Turn 10, they have at the moment the best product but the genre is no more popular.

 

[Imari]

The problem is that the concept you are trying to get across is flawed and makes little sense from Sony's standpoint. That's not making Sony money, that's potentially losing Sony money.

Possibly in the overall picture of sales of consoles and other games, although it'd be impossible to prove either way. Sony thinks so because that's their strategy, but they would.

But still it doesn't invalidate the point that there's no money for a port of GT to make. There is. But there are other reasons why Sony/Polyphony would choose to give up however many million dollars they might make selling a port for value in other areas.

You, like I, can do the math and see that a few million dollars from a port could actually be a worse decision than tens of millions in Playstation associated sales in general. That's why Sony/Polyphony doesn't make a port. Not because they couldn't sell a port or wouldn't make money on it, but because not doing so is (supposedly) better.

If still you don't get that, then I don't know what to say. Maybe you're just arguing for the sake of it, because anyone who legitimately believes that GT wouldn't sell at all on PC is an idiot.

 

[TrevorPhilips]

I never said GT would not sell a lot on PC, I honestly do not know how you got that from my post?? Quite the opposite in fact, it would probably be one of the genre's biggest sellers on that platform. That's not the point, you obviously know that's not the point too considering all that came before it.

The concept is flawed because PD are bankrolled to sell systems not software.

 

[Imari]

I never said GT would not sell a lot on PC, I honestly do not know how you got that from my post?? Quite the opposite in fact, it would probably be one of the genre's biggest sellers on that platform. That's not the point, you obviously know that's not the point too considering all that came before it.

You should read the thread of the conversation before jumping in with both feet. This was what started it.

Meanwhile I'm just waiting for polyphony to realise how much money they're not making by not making a PC port of GTS. Don't have to work with hardware limitations for example

Practically none. How many copies of AC or PC sold? 3-400,000? The PC might have a massive install userbase but it is massively fragmented.

Perhaps this gives you a little perspective on what was being discussed instead of you diving on a single paragraph out of context because you thought it said something other than what it did.

Then again, maybe it's my fault for assuming that you'd read the last page and were following the conversation before putting your two cents in.

 

[queleuleu]

Poly must think : "how?!" when they see the massive cars yet to come in FH3. I know outsourcing is the keyword but it shows IMO that the Poly way of modeling is no more viable today. 3 years for 140 cars.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Another car pack for FH3 here, another one for AC there. It's like Poly is an indie dev with a small budget. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more cars as DLC in FH3 than all the cars known so far in GTsport. A whole year of GT3 cars and Brands Hatch/Nurb... That's the answer of a first party dev. Unfortunately for Turn 10, they have at the moment the best product but the genre is no more popular.

Most big car devs have significant car pack DLC every month or so, which begs the question since GTSport has been delayed for a significant time, why aren't we getting more cars with that delay?

 

[Samus]

3 years for 140 cars.

Not even that, well not 140 unique models anyway, since there are a lot of base 3D models that have been worked into one or more similar models. For example It might take 6 man months to build the base road Evo X but the rally, Gr4 and Gr3 versions would've been much quicker to generate from that model.

Of the 92 so far, I think it's about 60 that are 100% unique 3D models.

This, as written on the Sony website:

Every vehicle has been digitially recreated in remarkable detail. From the internal structure of the headlights to the stitching of the seats, the team at Polyphony Digital Inc. have set out to infuse every vehicle with same passion that drove it's original designers.

Shows why they take so long, they're focusing on the details that you'll only ever see in the non-driving/racing modes.

 

[GTEFGHA]

Poly must think : "how?!" when they see the massive cars yet to come in FH3. I know outsourcing is the keyword but it shows IMO that the Poly way of modeling is no more viable today. 3 years for 140 cars.

I think Kaz is too busy snorting coke of geishas in his dojo and racing at 24h to notice...