Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[OHM_fusion]

PS3 premiums are the new standard cars.

Not really. Standards are unacceptable, but PS3 premiums need to come back. I can't believe they spent six months building "future proof" cars with the PS4 quality in mind (which caused the low number of premiums in GT5 in the first place), built a library of like 400+ cars, and then what, just scrapped them and started over for GT Sport?

I really hope when Kaz says 500 cars for GTS they bring back the old premiums because if those extra 450 cars they plan to add to Sport all need to be done from scratch it will take them 10 years to reach that number.

 

[azeeza]

Not really. Standards are unacceptable, but PS3 premiums need to come back. I can't believe they spent six months building "future proof" cars with the PS4 quality in mind (which caused the low number of premiums in GT5 in the first place), built a library of like 400+ cars, and then what, just scrapped them and started over for GT Sport?

I really hope when Kaz says 500 cars for GTS they bring back the old premiums because if those extra 450 cars they plan to add to Sport all need to be done from scratch it will take them 10 years to reach that number.

He says new standard which means if PD bring back the Premium of GT5/6 without updated it wiil be the standard like we have S/P for GT5/6, cause the new cars from GTS are super premium
Premium and Super Premium, different quality like Standard and Premium

 

[OHM_fusion]

He says new standard which means if PD bring back the Premium of GT5/6 without updated it wiil be the standard like we have S/P for GT5/6, cause the new cars from GTS are super premium
Premium and Super Premium, different quality like Standard and Premium

OK but it's still not really the same thing IMO.

Visually there is not much difference between premium and "super premium", and the difference is small compared to the premium/ standard difference on the ps3. Compare the Evo X from GT5 and GTS, sure the GTS model has more polygons but it's not really a gigantic diference.

More importantly there are no functional differences, remember how the standards didn't have separate body panels, had different damage, no visual parts upgrades, no racing numbers, no modeled interiors, had extremely low poly count so details like headlights were faked with a texture instead of 3d modelled, etc... PS3 premiums have none of these problems so they should be functionally identical to GT sport premiums.

Even without any touching up these old premiums should have enough detail. Apply PS4 shaders, PS4 lighting and reflections, increase texture resolution and they should be really close to the super premiums.

 

[TS050]

I love that everyone's talking about standards again even though they were confirmed to not be in the game

 

[DefiantEnd]

I didn't mind the standards. Wouldn't want them again, but in GT6 I thought they did the job fine.

And I think it's unacceptable to do it again though.

 

[05XR8]

Thing is, how many Premium cars in GT6, are newer than 2009(the year of, so far, the oldest car in GTS[Lotus Evora])?

Edit: I'll clarify, not including VGT, as they were going to be in GTS anyway.

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

I can't believe they spent six months building "future proof" cars with the PS4 quality in mind (which caused the low number of premiums in GT5 in the first place), built a library of like 400+ cars, and then what, just scrapped them and started over for GT Sport?

I have a stereotype about Japanese (and sometimes happened to myself). If it is not 'perfect', then I prefer to start over rather than fixing what already exist. I know it is wasting time, but that happens.

...or should I call it a 'vertical solution'?

 

[OHM_fusion]

I have a stereotype about Japanese (and sometimes happened to myself). If it is not 'perfect', then I prefer to start over rather than fixing what already exist. I know it is wasting time, but that happens.

...or should I call it a 'vertical solution'?

Sure it might be a Japanese thing, but it's still baffling to me. PD is already a slow developer, if they are just throwing good assets away, then it's more like bad management.

 

[Samus]

I love that everyone's talking about standards again even though they were confirmed to not be in the game

Indeed. Now we've seen the Scapes mode with the "Super Premium" models could you imagine how hilariously bad even some of the "best" standard cars would look? You don't even need to pull out the classic LOD error Daihatsu.

They (rightfully) are never coming back, not now they've set their stall out with the scapes mode and general graphical quality on PS4.

 

[jm79]

They (rightfully) are never coming back, not now they've set their stall out with the scapes mode and general graphical quality on PS4.

Nice scape @Samus, hadn't seen that one before! (Ireland?)

 

[Imari]

Indeed. Now we've seen the Scapes mode with the "Super Premium" models could you imagine how hilariously bad even some of the "best" standard cars would look? You don't even need to pull out the classic LOD error Daihatsu.

They (rightfully) are never coming back, not now they've set their stall out with the scapes mode and general graphical quality on PS4.

It does sort of beg the question of why they wasted time on those upgraded standards as well, if they weren't going to be used again. Spending time upgrading old assets for one game at the very end of a console life cycle seems like kind of a waste.

 

[another_jakhole]

I'm hoping this will be the GT3 of the PS4 era. If they don't use the premiums from the PS3 versions, I can't help but feel this huge letdown. I know we're not close to GT Sport being released, but a "GT Sport 2" with nothing except for wholly new models (to the series) would lose that edge PD worked to build over the first 15 years: the encyclopedia of car games. At this point, outsourcing should be taken into serious consideration. A system of modeling each car would have to be implemented so inconsistencies won't be an issue. I dream of this being a possibility.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

It does sort of beg the question of why they wasted time on those upgraded standards as well, if they weren't going to be used again. Spending time upgrading old assets for one game at the very end of a console life cycle seems like kind of a waste.

It's exactly silly things like this is why I'm not getting involved this time around.

PD making games is like my father in law doing DIY, everything's only 90% finished lol.

 

[Fredzy]

I'm hoping this will be the GT3 of the PS4 era. If they don't use the premiums from the PS3 versions, I can't help but feel this huge letdown. I know we're not close to GT Sport being released, but a "GT Sport 2" with nothing except for wholly new models (to the series) would lose that edge PD worked to build over the first 15 years: the encyclopedia of car games. At this point, outsourcing should be taken into serious consideration. A system of modeling each car would have to be implemented so inconsistencies won't be an issue. I dream of this being a possibility.

You mean GT4 of the PS4 era? Wasn't GT3 a little light on content? Or do you mean because GT3 used all new assets? It's a certainty that no garbage models will return, and I feel confident (AS IN IT IS MY OPINION) that they will re-use all "premiums" from GT6 in GT Sport.. eventually. But maybe that's excessive optimism. Doesn't matter to me, I almost don't care if this game ever comes out at this point.

It's exactly silly things like this is why I'm not getting involved this time around.

PD making games is like my father in law doing DIY, everything's only 90% finished lol.

1. I totally get this, and it is a good observation. I tried to coin a term for the disappointment that these sort of PD failures sow in my heart but I don't use twitter or hashtags.
2. Perhaps my years of leniency toward PD were on account of me being so much like your FIL?
3. I guess I don't have a third point (failure!)

 

[Ryan81]

Tell you what, who thinks GTS is not coming out this year but rather 2018/19? Wasn't it Kaz that said once GT comes to PS4 the development process is so much easier than PS3 therefore won't take too long? Four years later....140 cars including fantasies. Do people really find that acceptable?

 

[ScottPuss20]

Look I'd rather have a 140 cars which are much more newer than 1000 which are either daggy, old, or just useless. Cars I don't want to drive, in other words. GT6 severely lacked fresh metal, it's about time PD gave us some new cars to experience.

 

[another_jakhole]

You mean GT4 of the PS4 era? Wasn't GT3 a little light on content? Or do you mean because GT3 used all new assets? It's a certainty that no garbage models will return, and I feel confident (AS IN IT IS MY OPINION) that they will re-use all "premiums" from GT6 in GT Sport.. eventually. But maybe that's excessive optimism. Doesn't matter to me, I almost don't care if this game ever comes out at this point.

Hopefully the GT4 equivalent is the following iteration (GT Sport 2) with three times the amount of content.

Look I'd rather have a 140 cars which are much more newer than 1000 which are either daggy, old, or just useless. Cars I don't want to drive, in other words. GT6 severely lacked fresh metal, it's about time PD gave us some new cars to experience.

I understand the approach of including only new cars, especially since it's very different than what we're used to expecting. What bothers me is the idea of GT Sport not including the prime cars of the past. The classics and whatnot. The generations of Nissan's, Honda's or Lamborghini's that were in GT6 could be lost now.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Look I'd rather have a 140 cars which are much more newer than 1000 which are either daggy, old, or just useless. Cars I don't want to drive, in other words. GT6 severely lacked fresh metal, it's about time PD gave us some new cars to experience.

GT6 might have more "fresh metal" vs. GT5 when all is said and done, than GTS has over GT6. The VGT's are already carryovers and there may be quite a few more to come.

 

[ScottPuss20]

GT6 might have more "fresh metal" vs. GT5 when all is said and done, than GTS has over GT6. The VGT's are already carryovers and there may be quite a few more to come.

I don't think you understand my point
I'm saying that GT Sport has cars which have been made quite recently, while the majority of premiums in GT6 weren't that new. That was one of my complaints about GT6. Not many of them were new to the franchise, unlike GT Sport which will feature a lot of cars never seen in previous GT games.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't think you understand my point

I don't. GT6 had over 400 premium cars, industry standard at the time, with nearly 100 of those introduced with the launch of GT6. GTS will have significantly less premiums in total at launch and might barely exceed the 100 mark in terms of "fresh metal", and many of those may be near duplicates of themselves, like the 3 versions of the 4C, 3 versions of the Mustang etc. At this point it looks like the fresh metal in GT6 and GTS are pretty comparable.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I don't. GT6 had over 400 premium cars, industry standard at the time, with nearly 100 of those introduced with the launch of GT6. GTS will have significantly less premiums in total at launch and might barely exceed the 100 mark in terms of "fresh metal", and many of those may be near duplicates of themselves, like the 3 versions of the 4C, 3 versions of the Mustang etc. At this point it looks like the fresh metal in GT6 and GTS are pretty comparable.

Yeah but not all of them were built after 2009. There's more vehicles from the last 5 years being implemented in GT Sport than GT6, no? Maybe I should look at the car list properly. I don't think I explained this correctly - there's more "new" cars (in a real-world context) being put into GT Sport, not necessarily more new cars to the franchise.

 

[05XR8]

Yeah but not all of them were built after 2009. There's more vehicles from the last 5 years being implemented in GT Sport than GT6, no? Maybe I should look at the car list properly. I don't think I explained this correctly - there's more "new" cars (in a real-world context) being put into GT Sport, not necessarily more new cars to the franchise.

This is how the Sport name comes into play. There is a real GT4 Lotus Evora set to race this year. We'll actually be able to race a similar one in GTS.

The racing world does look like what GTS is proposed to be. GT3 cars are hot right now. GT4 is gaining momentum. Production car racing is still alive and kicking. Most cars in each of these series are fairly new(LMP in GTS, is a whole other story).

I know most of us want classic cars. GTS is actually up to date with the racing world.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yeah but not all of them were built after 2009. There's more vehicles from the last 5 years being implemented in GT Sport than GT6, no? Maybe I should look at the car list properly. I don't think I explained this correctly - there's more "new" cars (in a real-world context) being put into GT Sport, not necessarily more new cars to the franchise.

But you just said this:

That was one of my complaints about GT6. Not many of them were new to the franchise, unlike GT Sport which will feature a lot of cars never seen in previous GT games.

Cars introduced in the base version of GT6 that were built in 2009 or later:

Spoiler: Count: 44

1. Abarth 500 '09
2. Abarth Grande Punto '09
3. Acura NSX CONCEPT '13
4. Alfa Romeo MiTo 1.4 T Sport '09
5. Alfa Romeo TZ3 Stradale '11
6. Aston Martin One-77 '11
7. Audi R18 TDI (Audi Sport Team Joest) '11
8. Audi R8 LMS - Team Oreca '10
9. BMW E92 M3 (BMW Motorsport) '10
10. BMW Z4 GT3 '11
11. Cadillac CTS-V Coupe '11
12. Chevrolet NASCAR Chevrolet SS '13
13. DeltaWing 2013
14. Fisker Karma EcoSport '12
15. Ford NASCAR Fusion '13
16. Ford Mustang Boss 302 '13
17. Ford Shelby GT500 '13
18. Honda Fit RS'10
19. Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
20. Jaguar XKR-S '11
21. KTM X-Bow R '12
22. Land Rover Range Rover Evoque Coupe Dynamic '13
23. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package '12
24. Mazda Demio Sport '10
25. Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3 '11
26. Monster Sport SX4 Base Model '11
27. Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 '13
28. Pagani Huayra '11
29. Peugeot RCZ '10
30. Renault Sport Clio R.S. '11
31. Renault Sport Mégane R.S. Trophy '11
32. Renault Sport Mégane Trophy '11
33. SRT Viper GTS '13
34. Subaru BRZ GT300 Base Model '12
35. Subaru Impreza WRX STI spec C '09
36. Subaru S206 NBR Challenge Package '12
37. Tajima 2012 Monster Sport E-RUNNER Pikes Peak Special
38. Tesla Motors Model S Signature Performance '12
39. Toyota 86 "Racing" '13
40. Toyota NASCAR Camry '13
41. Toyota Aqua S '11
42. Toyota GAZOO Racing TOYOTA 86 #166 '12
43. Toyota Vitz F '12
44. Volkswagen Scirocco GT24 Base Model '08 *

* - Included due to it seemingly being the base for the car in GT Sport

I didn't even include the duplicates (R18, E92 M3, etc). Or the Veyron. Or the C7 Vette, since it technically premiered in GT5 (same with the HSV-010). I also didn't include PD-designed cars. For what it's worth, a quick Cmnd+F on the official car list for '09 through to '13 (and ignoring cars added in updates) shows 108 cars, though that skips the NASCAR vehicles, and a few others (the Pikes Peak cars).

Cars so far revealed in GT Sport, following the same criteria (not PD-designed, new to franchise):

Spoiler: Count: 31

1. Alfa Romeo 4C Launch Edition '14
2. Audi R8 LMS (Audi Sport Team WRT) '15
3. Audi TTS Coupe '15
4. Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3 '12
5. Aston Martin V8 Vantage S '14
6. BMW M6 GT3 '16
7. Chevrolet Camaro SS '16
8. Dodge SRT Viper GT3-R
9. Dodge SRT Hellcat '15
10. Ferrari LaFerrari '13
11. Ferrari 458 Italia GT3 '13
12. Ford Mustang GT Premium Fastback '15
13. Ford Focus ST '15 *
14. Honda NSX '17
15. Jaguar F-Type
16. Lamborghini Veneno '13
17. Lexus RC-F
18. Mazda Roadster S (ND) '15
19. McLaren 650S GT3 '15
20. McLaren 650S Coupe '14
21. Mercedes-AMG GT S '14
22. Mercedes-Benz A 45 AMG 4MATIC '13
23. Mercedes-AMG GT3
24. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X Final Edition *
25. Nissan GT-R '17 *
26. Peugeot 208 GTi '15
27. Renault Sport R.S.01 GT3 '16
28. Subaru WRX STI Type S ' 14
29. Toyota SF-R
30. Toyota SF-R Racing Concept
31. Volkswagen Golf VII GTI '14

* - All included, but very similar to previous incarnations (the Evo especially)

Obviously, with 48 cars left to be unveiled, there could still be some shake-ups. But considering almost half the new-to-franchise cars in GT Sport so far are PD-designed Gr.x cars, or VGT's, I don't expect many new real-world models to show up, at least at launch.

This is how the Sport name comes into play. There is a real GT4 Lotus Evora set to race this year. We'll actually be able to race a similar one in GTS.

The racing world does look like what GTS is proposed to be. GT3 cars are hot right now. GT4 is gaining momentum. Production car racing is still alive and kicking. Most cars in each of these series are fairly new(LMP in GTS, is a whole other story).

I know most of us want classic cars. GTS is actually up to date with the racing world.

There's a 2009 base model Evora entering a GT4 series this year? That's brave!

 

[Robbks]

Cars so far revealed in GT Sport, following the same criteria (not PD-designed, new to franchise):

Spoiler: Count: 31

1. Alfa Romeo 4C Launch Edition '14
2. Audi R8 LMS (Audi Sport Team WRT) '15
3. Audi TTS Coupe '15
4. Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3 '12
5. Aston Martin V8 Vantage S '14
6. BMW M6 GT3 '16
7. Chevrolet Camaro SS '16
8. Dodge SRT Viper GT3-R
9. Dodge SRT Hellcat '15
10. Ferrari LaFerrari '13
11. Ferrari 458 Italia GT3 '13
12. Ford Mustang GT Premium Fastback '15
13. Ford Focus ST '15 *
14. Honda NSX '17
15. Jaguar F-Type
16. Lamborghini Veneno '13
17. Lexus RC-F
18. Mazda Roadster S (ND) '15
19. McLaren 650S GT3 '15
20. McLaren 650S Coupe '14
21. Mercedes-AMG GT S '14
22. Mercedes-Benz A 45 AMG 4MATIC '13
23. Mercedes-AMG GT3
24. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X Final Edition *
25. Nissan GT-R '17 *
26. Peugeot 208 GTi '15
27. Renault Sport R.S.01 GT3 '16
28. Subaru WRX STI Type S ' 14
29. Toyota SF-R
30. Toyota SF-R Racing Concept
31. Volkswagen Golf VII GTI '14

* - All included, but very similar to previous incarnations (the Evo especially)

That looks like a good enough Roster to keep me busy for 24-36 months.

Just give us the friggin game and take my money

 

[bdj57]

An article and impression about VR Mode at CES :
http://thekoalition.com/2017/ces-2017-gran-turismo-sport-psvr-demo

 

[05XR8]

There's a 2009 base model Evora entering a GT4 series this year? That's brave!

If you want to call it a base model GT4, sure is.

Can't recall if someone posted this already

 

[Samus]

and I feel confident (AS IN IT IS MY OPINION) that they will re-use all "premiums" from GT6 in GT Sport.. eventually

They won't. The reason they're not used it not because the overall model quality isn't high enough, it's because they're not compatible with the latest rendering technique. I don't know a great deal about it personally, it's called 'Physics Based Rendering' or PBR for short, but it means none of the premiums can be used, apparently. It's the same thing Forza ran into and why Forza 5 had so few cars.

I was mistaken, see below.

 

[Fredzy]

They won't. The reason they're not used it not because the overall model quality isn't high enough, it's because they're not compatible with the latest rendering technique. I don't know a great deal about it personally, it's called 'Physics Based Rendering' or PBR for short, but it means none of the premiums can be used, apparently. It's the same thing Forza ran into and why Forza 5 had so few cars.

It's hard to imagine a scenario where they would have to start those models from scratch. I just read up a bit on physically based rendering out of curiosity, and don't think any changes would be required to any 3D geometry. It would appear all "textures" would need to change. I would expect a lot of that work could be done via scripts/routines.

I may sound overly optimistic, but they have millions of dollars tied up in those very adequate models and would be mad to obsolete them.

 

[Samus]

It's hard to imagine a scenario where they would have to start those models from scratch. I just read up a bit on physically based rendering out of curiosity, and don't think any changes would be required to any 3D geometry. It would appear all "textures" would need to change. I would expect a lot of that work could be done via scripts/routines.

I may sound overly optimistic, but they have millions of dollars tied up in those very adequate models and would be mad to obsolete them.

Actually looking back it seems I was mistaken, as I say not my area of expertise, sorry. It seems in actuality you're right, they don't need to remodel from scratch for PBR but they would if they wanted to use Adaptive Tesselation on every model. A few models had it on GT6 but if they decided they wanted to use AT on every model then any premium not made with it at in mind would apparently be no good.

So that is potentially where the issue lies, although of course this is only theory based on what the more knowledgeable people here know about these technologies. We can't really say for certain.

 

[James medrala]

I Definitely wont be Purchasing another GT Game Ever again . Been ripped off and Let down to many Times with PD & Sony Franchise Racers .( it will be full of Bugs and needs fixes and Patches )! Kept waiting months on end .
It was a good Semi Arcade Racer in its Day ,but is old hat Now . Im looking for a bit more immersion and Sim these days .
Its still bumper cars and sounds Terrible from what ive seen so far . It looks Ok ,but it should do now . Sorry GT fans ,but i wont be fooled into buying anymore Japanese - Crap ,FIA involvement will be its saving Grace , everthing else looks the same as all the other Failures .
Anyone who pre orders this Game ,is making a huge mistake. It just sends out the wrong message to the Development Department at PD Sony . You will be left frustrated and let down again ! With a Demo version of the Next one . RIP GT .