GT and Microtransactions

[LaBounti]

Wasnt GT4 Prolgoe like $35? GT HD is basically that plus more. To people who keep saying they are getting ripped off do they for get they can just keep playing GT4? I dont see it as a rip off and the media eats stuff like "$975 game"

Should I sue Sony to reimburse me for the 200-300 some cars I never used in GT4? Yeah lets all sue Sony for the cars we never used in GT4!

Silly poll IMO, its like asking would you rather have $1000 or $100

 

[Famine]

To people who keep saying they are getting ripped off do they for get they can just keep playing GT4?

No one is saying that - on the fairly sane grounds that the game isn't out yet. What they ARE saying is that to achieve only the same level of content merely as GT4 is liable to cost far in excess of the cost of GT4 - unless the game costs $5 and each download, track or car, costs 5 cents.

Just to achieve the same level of content as GT4.

Should I sue Sony to reimburse me for the 200-300 some cars I never used in GT4? Yeah lets all sue Sony for the cars we never used in GT4!

I'll join in your class action lawsuit. Of course, I'd be expecting... errr... *calculates* nothing.

Silly poll IMO, its like asking would you rather have $1000 or $100

Would you rather pay $80 to get $100, or $1,000 to get $1,000?

The former is GT4 - you still haven't used some of the content, so have more than you paid for. The latter is GT5 - you get exactly what you pay for, but you pay ten times the price for it.

 

[SkylineObsession]

Spot on Famine. 👍

 

[LaBounti]

No one is saying that - on the fairly sane grounds that the game isn't out yet. What they ARE saying is that to achieve only the same level of content merely as GT4 is liable to cost far in excess of the cost of GT4 - unless the game costs $5 and each download, track or car, costs 5 cents.

Just to achieve the same level of content as GT4.

And thats the only way they see it. Given its the most obvious, its not the only way to see it.

I'll join in your class action lawsuit. Of course, I'd be expecting... errr... *calculates* nothing.

True, but you get my point at the least? I paid $50 but didnt use all of what I paid for.

Would you rather pay $80 to get $100, or $1,000 to get $1,000?

The former is GT4 - you still haven't used some of the content, so have more than you paid for. The latter is GT5 - you get exactly what you pay for, but you pay ten times the price for it.

My point there was everyone would choose $1000. Or the same answer.

 

[DuckRacer]

My point there was everyone would choose $1000.

Yeah, everyone would pay 10 times as much for the same stuff that's in GT4, minus some Ferraris and updated models.

I think you should change "everyone" to "hardcore GT enthusiasts with a big wallet".

 

[LaBounti]

Nothing is stopping anyone from playing the original game. GTHD is not GT4, that seems to be what everyone wants, GT4. But months ago so many didnt even like the idea of GT4 port. Now they have something to really cry over.

I meant, everyone would choose $1000 over $100 into thier pocket, not the cost of the game In other words the same answer. a complete port of GT4 rather than what come of it.

 

[LaBounti]

......

 

[KENJIusa]

Second choice for me.
I'd say we email them now: http://www.polyphony.co.jp/

 

[MasterGT]

WE.......... DO.......... NOT.......... KNOW..........

What PDs model will be... STOP.. PLEASE..

The ultimate problem is that we don't know how GT5 (or later versions) will work.

If GT5 is going to allow unlockable contents, just as it always has had, then what are players who buy downloads soon going to be thinking each time they unlock a new car or track that they paid good money for, just a few months earlier?

If GT5 will not have unlockable contents, as it always has had, then think of the implications of that for people who love this game, but, for whatever reason, they either can't do on-line transactions or can't get broadband Internet service, or both!

So, it all depends on what SONY/PD has planned for GT5.

We can't stop discussions until we get answers for the basic questions, such as "What will GT5 be like and what are my options with this expensive GT:HD data that I buy today?", etc. If we do, we're all going to regret it.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Keef]

Has this idea been up yet?

I think the game--there should be one version--should start with all the normal, buyable cars, like a Mustang or STi have always been, or even a Fiorano, and a few used cars. There should be no "classic" cars, high-end race cars (say, an R8 or JGTC cars), concept cars, or general unbuyable cars.
You could get a great start with the few hundred normal buyable cars, especially since these are usually the only cars people end up using often anyway. There would be no need to download those classic cars, high-end race cars, concept cars, or general unbuyable cars, but if you wanted the extra hundred or so of these "special" cars you could pay a very small price--maybe USD $.25-$.40--for access to these cars. You have to remember that few of these cars would actually be practicle for use, like the race cars, so only the real collectors would end up spending more than $20 on these special cars.
Now, these cars I speak of would be available to everyone. THey would not be special editions. That position would be reserved for truly rare and custom cars (in real life). These may cost a dollar or more and would be available only in limited numbers. I have no idea what sort of numbers--that's what PD's consumer surveys are used for.
Another idea is that the famous reward cars should be few and far between. These cars could be either the normal cars or the special cars--race cars and such--and you would recieve them via free download. I think the best times for these to pop up would be when you make a certain goal, like a percentage of completion. I think every 25% would be a good seperation, with the value of the car increasing every time, the F1 probably being last. I think some of these free downloads should occur for winning certain races, but only a few and only those where it might occur in real life or races that are huge milestones in the game, like an endurance race.

That's about all I have right now. What do you guys think?

 

[fasj6418]

Wasnt GT4 Prolgoe like $35? GT HD is basically that plus more. To people who keep saying they are getting ripped off do they for get they can just keep playing GT4? I dont see it as a rip off and the media eats stuff like "$975 game"

Should I sue Sony to reimburse me for the 200-300 some cars I never used in GT4? Yeah lets all sue Sony for the cars we never used in GT4!

Silly poll IMO, its like asking would you rather have $1000 or $100

yeah, that´s the point. its obvious people want more content and don´t want to buy into this microtransactions thing. you sound like its inevitable. PD needs to know how we feel about it. and again, don´t bring up the 200 cars you didn´t use thing again. we´re discussing the principles of microtransactions. i´m pretty sure you also like to have more content.

when i put the figures 2.000 cars and 100 tracks, that was just a figure number, soething that would undounbtely happen with blu ray storage and also if there was no such thing as microtransactions. and since GT5 is not being hurry up for launch, they are including what they want for the game.

even if you don´t use all cars, think of how that will affect GT mode. also, in the previous 4 GT games, didn´t you ever drove a car that you never thought about before? i would never drive a pulsar if it wasen´t in GT... i just don´t want the game to lose the "encyclopedia of cars aspect" that it has since GT1

 

[MeWhiteNoise]

is how many times I've bought a car and then found it to be a piece of cr*p. Also having to pay for a car will discourage you to not try a car out that might be cr*p and turns out to be a gem. I've lost count the number of times I've bought a sleeper which turned out to be great and trashed my mate with it on 2p memory card battle

 

[Mr Fox]

I like the idea of microtransactions, BUT i can see how this could be abused by developers.

The concept seems pretty sound, so long as you pay for what you want , not for what you dont want.

thing is developer could use some dirty tactics to part us with even more cash.

Example: What if the car you buy online slowly degrades after use, similare to what we see in GT4, and theres no way to fix this, exept by buying another one.

the chassis and engines could be programmed to degrade through use (milage) or even every time you crash that increases the rate the car degrades.

PD could make a mint with a feature like that, but it would suck for the consumer.
Also other things like, after market body parts for the cars, they could charge users for the kits, rims, wings, ect ect.

I dont mind the idea of paying a small fee for the car i want, to me thats seems fair, but it would consern me if i have to pay to either replace the car due to damage, or paying to tune and customize the vehicle i have just bought.

so yeah Micro transactions seem like a good idea, but it could be abused.

 

[JTSnooks]

Also other things like, after market body parts for the cars, they could charge users for the kits, rims, wings, ect ect.

I dont mind the idea of paying a small fee for the car i want, to me thats seems fair, but it would consern me if i have to pay to either replace the car due to damage, or paying to tune and customize the vehicle i have just bought.

Well people are always complaining about the lack of realism in GT, that should add a whole new dimension! Sounds just like real life if you ask me.

I'm leaving this subject alone until the game is released. If they end up screwing us, then I just won't buy it. But, I think they'll work out something fair, and I'm not going to worry about it because nobody knows the truth yet.

 

[Tenacious D]

You have to realize that even if Sony makes us pay for everything, which is looking less likely now that the release has been pushed back a few months, this is going to work just like products for sale in real life.

If the stuff doesn't sell very much, Sony will make it attractive with price drops and package deals until it begins selling. This will definitely happen, so you don't have to worry about your wallet being mauled.

 

[harrytuttle]

If the stuff doesn't sell very much, Sony will make it attractive with price drops and package deals until it begins selling. This will definitely happen, so you don't have to worry about your wallet being mauled.

I can't see it selling too well in the beginning, but Sony may stick to their pricing scheme anyway. After announcing that the PS3 was $600, they stuck to that price even after the press & public backlash.

I'm not in favor of microtransactions under any circumstances. It's the thin edge of the wedge for companies to make you pay for every little thing you watch or listen to. I am in favor of downloads of new material and legitimate game updates, and if it's not a patch or fix, then I would be okay with paying for it. But having to pay for every little car & track for a game that was completed before the initial release is just wrong.

 

[Tenacious D]

The price for the PS2 was $300 for a LONG time, years. But do you know why? It was selling. See?

If it had sat on the shelves, both retailers and Sony would have cut the price until it began to sell. With downloadable content, it's not like hardware or software that has to be produced, packaged and shipped, so you can lower the price drastically. You don't have nearly as many cost issues with a physical product. There is no comparison except at the most basic level of something offered for sale.

Besides, Kaz and Sony have already altered their tune on the structure of GT HD, saying that nothing had been decided as to what will end up on the sheves.

 

[Fredzy]

Kaz said that it takes one employee 6 months to generate a car model as seen in HD Premium. You want 2000 of these on release? 200 even? And what about the tracks? Of course their detail must be on par with the cars.

GT will be a much different game in the future. It will not be hundereds of monotonous redundant races and cars. It will focus on the cars and the quality of the driving experience very specifically. The content and price of the game and downloads will be based more on the manhours that went into producing it (and I'm worried that those efforts will be lost, as I could give a damn about amazing graphics with respect to gameplay.)

Thechnology has screwed us in that it can not be utilized as expected without the additional cost of manpower.

My expectations are low at this point, sadly. I think the concept of Gran Turismo will be tested to an extreme, and Polyphony is definitely overestimating the value of "awesome graphics." I see GT5 hitting the shelves with 1/70th the content of say GT4, and us true fanatics having to shovel out perhaps $200 to get anywhere near a satisfying amount of content like we enjoyed in GT4... this, I swear to god I will not do.

If GT5 has more than 10 tracks and 100 cars when it is released, I will be astonished. I might even find someone with a PS3 and try the game out. The hundreds of dollars that they will expect me to fork over will go into a fraction of the monthly payment on my new GTR that I'm getting in spring 08'.

 

[Fredzy]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734938p1.html

 

[Der Alta]

Kaz said that it takes one employee 6 months to generate a car model as seen in HD Premium. You want 2000 of these on release? 200 even? And what about the tracks? Of course their detail must be on par with the cars.

GT will be a much different game in the future. It will not be hundereds of monotonous redundant races and cars. It will focus on the cars and the quality of the driving experience very specifically. The content and price of the game and downloads will be based more on the manhours that went into producing it (and I'm worried that those efforts will be lost, as I could give a damn about amazing graphics with respect to gameplay.)

Thechnology has screwed us in that it can not be utilized as expected without the additional cost of manpower.

My expectations are low at this point, sadly. I think the concept of Gran Turismo will be tested to an extreme, and Polyphony is definitely overestimating the value of "awesome graphics." I see GT5 hitting the shelves with 1/70th the content of say GT4, and us true fanatics having to shovel out perhaps $200 to get anywhere near a satisfying amount of content like we enjoyed in GT4... this, I swear to god I will not do.

If GT5 has more than 10 tracks and 100 cars when it is released, I will be astonished. I might even find someone with a PS3 and try the game out. The hundreds of dollars that they will expect me to fork over will go into a fraction of the monthly payment on my new GTR that I'm getting in spring 08'.

SO you're expecting something "GT: Prologue" instead of a real game? Prior work shows that you're likely to be right.

 

[Tenacious D]

I see GT5 hitting the shelves with 1/70th the content of say GT4, and us true fanatics having to shovel out perhaps $200 to get anywhere near a satisfying amount of content like we enjoyed in GT4... this, I swear to god I will not do.

Uh... 9 cars and 0.7 tracks in GT5? Sure.

Anyway, you guys can grouch all you want. It will undoubtedly stay in Polyphony's and Sony's radar screens and may have a positive effect as far as how they deal with content. Kaz has admitted that they haven't decided yet how the content of GT HD will be handled when released.

But with them saying that 30 premium Edition cars and two tracks being included with the disc in their initial plans, with another set of 30 cars and 2 tracks at least available for download on the day of release, I expect quite a bit more than 9 cars and 1 track in either version. With the release delayed till late spring to summer now - and perhaps even next holiday, I anticipate a fairly large GT HD with plenty to experience.

 

[Dave A]

GT5 will be a packaged product, Kaz has already said this, GT:HD however will not offer huge ammounts of content packaged. Look at GT:HD as an expandable GT5rologue and you won't be dissapointed. Ofcourse GT5 will more than likely offer after release downloads but the majority of the games total content will likely be packaged. I don't expect GT4 levels of content though, but if the quality of what we do get is a big improvement over GT4's and the races become more fun again then I don't care.

 

[Fredzy]

Yea, what I tell my buddies is if GT5 doesn't come with at least 20 tracks (not counting "reverse" derivatives) and 300 cars, I probably won't consider it. Graphics just aren't justification for reduced content.

Here's what I am keeping in mind: GTHD will pretty much be a test mule/work in progress for GT5. You can potentially pay hundreds of dollars to get a couple dozen tracks and a few hundred cars - this is known. They said that any of the content you purchase for GTHD may be transferred over to GT5 upon its release.

"Polyphony hopes to make content that has been downloaded for GTHD available for use in the Gran Turismo that follows it (Gran Turismo 5)." - IGN

Hopes (meaning may or may not) to make all of the content that has been downloaded (meaning what you have already paid for) for GTHD available in GT5 when you buy it.

That statement dooms GT5 as far as being a traditional GT title. If GT5 were to come with 20 tracks and 300 cars for $60, then how will the people who poured so much money into GTHD feel when all of that content is released in classic GT form through GT5 so shortly after - say 6 months to a year and a half. That is not going to happen, and GT5 will be a much different game.

Think of how racing games were before GT. There were 10-30 cars, 3-12 tracks (for example) and it was fun for a little while, got old quick, and you chucked it under your bed or something. I'm afraid GT5 will be just like that, only Sony/Polyphony are banking on us opting to pay to keep entertained and not forget about the game. The online community that Kaz dreams about should help keep us involved, too.

I don't know - maybe it will be like real life in that you only need a handful (10-40) of cars that you are specialized with to tour the world challenging people... maybe it will be a whole new world of awesome. I don't know. Don't think I'm a sony/Polyphony hater or anything, I just see that without a doubt, GT as I know it is going to change, and nobody can tell at this point if it is gonna be for the better.

 

[Dave A]

I don't think they're talking about the GT:HD classic content, but the GT:HD Premium content being carried over. GT:HD Classis is not running on the same graphics engine as GT5 will be, GT:HD Premium is. I don't think your a PD hater, I just think your very confused about the whole situation.

 

[Fredzy]

I understand that GTHD Premium content is representative of GT5 - extreme high detail/reolution models and tracks with intricate physics, not just models ported from GT4 be HD looking (classic.) It's the way that the content in question is going to be "carried over" that I'm so concerned (and maybe confused) about.

Will all of the content from GTHDP (Premuim) that was available for download (not that you've already downloaded) be packaged in GT5? Or will GT5 come bare bones like GTHDP and you break out the Visa? I believe the success of GTHD in general will determine this.

 

[Raitziger]

i would realy like have a game disc.
Reasons:
1) HD material takes good amount of space in hard drive.
2) Sometimes i might need to format hard drive.
3) GT5 over internet costs far more than 59€(retail price for blu-ray games)

Tough temptation might be to much. I could go and get GTHD if i knew if all GT5 data could be downloaded via internet.

 

[Fredzy]

"OK, let me hear you say it..."

"It's Ridge Racer! RIIIIIIIDGE RACER!"

"Heh h-no no not that, come on..."

"Playstation 3 will retail for five hundred and ninety nine U.S. dol-"

"WROOOONG!"

 

[IMADreamer]

GT5 will be a packaged product, Kaz has already said this, GT:HD however will not offer huge ammounts of content packaged. Look at GT:HD as an expandable GT5rologue and you won't be dissapointed. Ofcourse GT5 will more than likely offer after release downloads but the majority of the games total content will likely be packaged. I don't expect GT4 levels of content though, but if the quality of what we do get is a big improvement over GT4's and the races become more fun again then I don't care.

I think that statement by Kaz is open to a great deal of interpretation. If I remember correctly he was talking about whether or not they would even need a disc or not. I took the statement to mean that GT5 would be a disc you would have to physically go to the store and buy rather then download the entire game online. Not that GT5 would be full game on the disc. I think it leaves the possibility open for a situation like GT:HD where you get maybe 20 cars and 6 tracks but download the rest.

Personally I hate the downloadable content idea. I would rather see them release a game then immediately get to work on the next version rather then release a game and continue to make content for that game.

Either way I won't be buying a PS3 or any new GT games unless they bring out a full version with a butt load of cars, tracks and much improved AI. If they don't do those things then it's just not worth it.

 

[Dave A]

I didn't read it like that, by that definition GT:HD is already a packaged product, but they were clearly talking about the differences between GT:HD and GT5. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I hope I'm right .

 

[IMADreamer]

I didn't read it like that, by that definition GT:HD is already a packaged product, but they were clearly talking about the differences between GT:HD and GT5. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I hope I'm right .

I hope you are right too!