GT Racing - GT1, GT3, Blancpain Endurance Series & National GT SeriesSports Cars

[Snaeper]

Sounds like a national homologation in similar scope to the Ginetta, Mosler and other oddballs.

 

[Diehardracer]

Sounds like a national homologation in similar scope to the Ginetta, Mosler and other oddballs.

Tell drivers like Carl Breeze and Tom Oliphant that.

 

[05XR8]

http://m.speedcafe.com/2015/10/30/record-aus-gt-entries-trigger-new-2016-series/

How cool is this now.

 

[mustafur]

Fully GT3 Sounds good.

 

[05XR8]

Yes. Another series for up and coming drivers to race in. Live doesn't have to stop with V8s. There is room for GT3 and V8SC. I can see Lowndes switching to AGT when he is done. So to V8 drivers that lose or can't get a seat in V8/DVS.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Yes. Another series for up and coming drivers to race in. Live doesn't have to stop with V8s. There is room for GT3 and V8SC. I can see Lowndes switching to AGT when he is done. So to V8 drivers that lose or can't get a seat in V8/DVS.

I like how you say it would be good for up and coming drivers then say you would expect V8SC and DVS drivers to end up there when they retire or lose their seats

 

[05XR8]

The Amatuer series for up and comers and the main GT3 for everyone else. 👍

 

[TDZdave]

http://m.speedcafe.com/2015/10/30/record-aus-gt-entries-trigger-new-2016-series/

How cool is this now.

That's great for motorsport in the country, looking forward to seeing how the endurance series pans out,

And look what's popped up for sale, The drivers list is astonishing!
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/65730/phoenix-racing---audi-r8-lms-ultra-2014

 

[Spacegoat]

Craig Lowndes and Garth Tander to join Jamec-Pem Racing for the Bathurst 12 hour.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Craig Lowndes and Garth Tander to join Jamec-Pem Racing for the Bathurst 12 hour.

I think we got the winning line-up right there.

 

[05XR8]

Yeah. Strong lineup right there. The opposition wouldn't want Lowndes leading or Tander behind the leader at the last laps to the finish.

 

[Spacegoat]

I think we got the winning line-up right there.

Yep, have to agree. Pretty formidable combination.

 

[Bo]

Does GT3 just mean "build something sportscar/supercar-ish, we'll BoP it then you're good to go" now? I thought it was getting out of hand, but the Renault situation is just plain bizarre.

If it could stop lying to itself about what it actually is, such a formula with an imposed budget cap would actually be a decent proposition to at least keep GT racing going for the foreseeable future in some shape or form. Let me run it by everyone:

• Manufacturers are allowed to develop a GT/sportscar silhouette around a fairly loose set of regulations (just things like overall dimensions kept in check and excessive over-body aerodynamic aids prohibited). This is then sold at an agreed fixed price to customer teams, say 300,000 Euros. The selling cost cap ensures that the bigger manufacturers can't go completely overboard on tech without making considerable losses.
• Manufacturer support is regulated and controlled - the price of key spare components is fixed, and engines can be rented annually for an agreed fixed price.
• Team budgets are capped at somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 Euros, which is strictly controlled.
• All cars the undergo the same BoP test as GT3 cars currently do, which is then registered at 3 month intervals by the FIA - any series wishing to use this proposed category will have to run the standardised BoP (this stops different sanctioning bodies making tweaks that can go awry, and leave teams/manufacturers unsatisfied).
• The competitive nature of the cost cap, both within the teams themselves and between manufacturers in both cars and factory support, ensures that there is a real incentive for manufacturers to keep prices down as much as they possibly can.

Thoughts?

 

[RACECAR]

Does GT3 just mean "build something sportscar/supercar-ish, we'll BoP it then you're good to go" now? I thought it was getting out of hand, but the Renault situation is just plain bizarre.

From the article:

The decision follows the R.S. 01’s new homologation granted by the French motorsport federation (FFSA) through a GT3 balance of performance. In order to be allowed to race in the GT Tour series, the Renault Sport R.S. 01 underwent significant modifications - i.e. had to be “slowed down”.

It means its only homologated for that French series, not by the FIA for every GT3 championship.

 

[catamount39]

Does GT3 just mean "build something sportscar/supercar-ish, we'll BoP it then you're good to go" now? I thought it was getting out of hand, but the Renault situation is just plain bizarre.

If it could stop lying to itself about what it actually is, such a formula with an imposed budget cap would actually be a decent proposition to at least keep GT racing going for the foreseeable future in some shape or form. Let me run it by everyone:

• Manufacturers are allowed to develop a GT/sportscar silhouette around a fairly loose set of regulations (just things like overall dimensions kept in check and excessive over-body aerodynamic aids prohibited). This is then sold at an agreed fixed price to customer teams, say 300,000 Euros. The selling cost cap ensures that the bigger manufacturers can't go completely overboard on tech without making considerable losses.
• Manufacturer support is regulated and controlled - the price of key spare components is fixed, and engines can be rented annually for an agreed fixed price.
• Team budgets are capped at somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 Euros, which is strictly controlled.
• All cars the undergo the same BoP test as GT3 cars currently do, which is then registered at 3 month intervals by the FIA - any series wishing to use this proposed category will have to run the standardised BoP (this stops different sanctioning bodies making tweaks that can go awry, and leave teams/manufacturers unsatisfied).
• The competitive nature of the cost cap, both within the teams themselves and between manufacturers in both cars and factory support, ensures that there is a real incentive for manufacturers to keep prices down as much as they possibly can.

Thoughts?

Calm down...the Renault is only allowed in that one single small championship.

 

[Bo]

From the article:



It means its only homologated for that French series, not by the FIA for every GT3 championship.

The car competed in GT Open today under FIA GT3 homologation. That may have been the original waiver, but there wasn't anything stopping any other series from letting it in with the same BoP and calling it a GT3 car.

Even if it is a daft waiver, what's to stop it from happening in future with another car?

 

[catamount39]

The car competed in GT Open today under FIA GT3 homologation. That may have been the original waiver, but there wasn't anything stopping any other series from letting it in with the same BoP and calling it a GT3 car.

Even if it is a daft waiver, what's to stop it from happening in future with another car?

The FIA. The Renault isn't even a bloody production car. If other championships allow it then that's their problem.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Does GT3 just mean "build something sportscar/supercar-ish, we'll BoP it then you're good to go" now? I thought it was getting out of hand, but the Renault situation is just plain bizarre.

If it could stop lying to itself about what it actually is, such a formula with an imposed budget cap would actually be a decent proposition to at least keep GT racing going for the foreseeable future in some shape or form. Let me run it by everyone:

• Manufacturers are allowed to develop a GT/sportscar silhouette around a fairly loose set of regulations (just things like overall dimensions kept in check and excessive over-body aerodynamic aids prohibited). This is then sold at an agreed fixed price to customer teams, say 300,000 Euros. The selling cost cap ensures that the bigger manufacturers can't go completely overboard on tech without making considerable losses.
• Manufacturer support is regulated and controlled - the price of key spare components is fixed, and engines can be rented annually for an agreed fixed price.
• Team budgets are capped at somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 Euros, which is strictly controlled.
• All cars the undergo the same BoP test as GT3 cars currently do, which is then registered at 3 month intervals by the FIA - any series wishing to use this proposed category will have to run the standardised BoP (this stops different sanctioning bodies making tweaks that can go awry, and leave teams/manufacturers unsatisfied).
• The competitive nature of the cost cap, both within the teams themselves and between manufacturers in both cars and factory support, ensures that there is a real incentive for manufacturers to keep prices down as much as they possibly can.

Thoughts?

The trouble is GT3 doesn't have technical regulation. You build it, it gets Bopped, then you race it. It is, at the same time, the biggest weakness and the greatest strength of the category.

 

[05XR8]

Is that GT4 XBOW coupe a production car? KTM found a way to make their roadster into a closed coupe. Same could be for the Renault.

 

[RACECAR]

Pretty sure the FIA has to allow it in order for the car to race everywhere else.

The car competed in GT Open today under FIA GT3 homologation. That may have been the original waiver, but there wasn't anything stopping any other series from letting it in with the same BoP and calling it a GT3 car.

This is the same championship that allows old GT1 cars as well as GTE cars, doesn't it?

Of all the championships, I wouldn't look at that one as the genesis for such a thing.

 

[Bo]

The Renault isn't even a bloody production car. If other championships allow it then that's their problem.

...Which is exactly my point.

It's one thing to run a waiver in your own national series to keep numbers up, but it's completely another for that waiver to not be restricted and other GT3-only series jump on board too. The FIA can't just jump in and draw the line now, because it'd have to be a black and white ruling - either it is a GT3, or it isn't - they can't pick and choose what series get special dispensation.

It was actually really nice to see the Renault run amongst the other cars today, as it was a breath of fresh air compared to the usual suspects everyone is used to. What was really not nice to see was that the lines are being blurred to the point where it apparently doesn't even matter what you bring along anymore - if you get it BoP'd against GT3 cars, it then apparently is one, but what championships agree with that is hit and miss. Early days on the situation, but there really are no lines being drawn, anywhere.

Is that GT4 XBOW coupe a production car? KTM found a way to make their roadster into a closed coupe. Same could be for the Renault.

The coupe X-Bow can still be roughly passed off as a X-Bow though. Renault's only hope of a family resemblance is the Spider.

I'm not against this happening, by the way - I'm more than happy for all the pretending to end and people can bring along what they want and get it BoP'd. I just don't want the lines blurred on what is and isn't acceptable.

This is the same championship that allows old GT1 cars as well as GTE cars, doesn't it?

If you dial back the years, but as of 2015, all cars had to be FIA GT3 spec. I'm fairly certain they also run the SRO/FIA BoP too.

There are some cars given dispensation ("Guest" class), but they're to fill a kind of pseudo-GT4 class, with Carrera Cup cars and Radicals. What annoyed me is that Monlau were allowed to enter the Renault as a full-on, PA, FIA GT3 entry, eligible for championship points.

 

[05XR8]

The Renault I'm seeing, looks like an R8.

i don't see a problem. Unless, I'm missing something.

 

[Northstar]

i don't see a problem. Unless, I'm missing something.

It's a bespoke race car with no road going counterpart.

 

[Retro Racer]

A bit like the Ginetta G55 GT3 then...

 

[05XR8]

...and the Chevron GR8 in GT4. That's FIA approved. Those both might get a pass because those groups(Roberta and Chevron) make those race cars specifically. The Renault went from concept to testing to spec series I guess.

 

[Bo]

A bit like the Ginetta G55 GT3 then...

...and the Chevron GR8 in GT4.

No.

The G55 is at least relatable to the G50, which is a road-based GT car. It's more of an evolution of the G50. The GR8 was also initially a trackday car, which also served as a GT4, and was then turned into a GT3. Both cars were designed and sold specifically as GT3 class cars from the outset.

The Renault is essentially a single seater with closed wheels, not created to satisfy any category requirements. It's marketed as a stepping stone for GT500, DTM, LMP2 and the like. It shouldn't suddenly be recognised as a GT3 car just because it underwent a BoP test.

 

[05XR8]

No.

The G55 is at least relatable to the G50, which is a road-based GT car. It's more of an evolution of the G50. The GR8 was also initially a trackday car, which also served as a GT4, and was then turned into a GT3. Both cars were designed and sold specifically as GT3 class cars from the outset.

The Renault is essentially a single seater with closed wheels, not created to satisfy any category requirements. It's marketed as a stepping stone for GT500, DTM, LMP2 and the like. It shouldn't suddenly be recognised as a GT3 car just because it underwent a BoP test.

Those both might get a pass because those groups(Ginetta and Chevron) make those race cars specifically. The Renault went from concept to testing to spec series I guess.

For sure. That's why I put that in there.

 

[Snaeper]

No.

The G55 is at least relatable to the G50, which is a road-based GT car. It's more of an evolution of the G50. The GR8 was also initially a trackday car, which also served as a GT4, and was then turned into a GT3. Both cars were designed and sold specifically as GT3 class cars from the outset.

The Renault is essentially a single seater with closed wheels, not created to satisfy any category requirements. It's marketed as a stepping stone for GT500, DTM, LMP2 and the like. It shouldn't suddenly be recognised as a GT3 car just because it underwent a BoP test.

You make good points, but regardless of how they arrived to the point, they're still bespoke racecars with no road going counterparts in my opinion.

I dont expect to see any more Renault's racing than Ginetta's and welcome the addition.

If it makes it into Blancpain GT then I'd be concerned.

 

[catamount39]

You make good points, but regardless of how they arrived to the point, they're still bespoke racecars with no road going counterparts in my opinion.

I dont expect to see any more Renault's racing than Ginetta's and welcome the addition.

If it makes it into Blancpain GT then I'd be concerned.

Which it won't because the SRO isn't stupid.

In my mind the Ginetta G55 GT3 is no crazier than the BMW Z4 GT3, at least it's a road car you can buy.

 

[IforceV8]

This lap is 4 sec faster than the WEC GTE pole lap from this year.



The car is awesome but it would need to lose it's carbon brakes and add 150-200 kg of ballast to run in a normal GT3 series and even then it might be too quick. It is best left to the handicap series like GT Open and those other mixed class series.