GT4 WRS Week 27: "Formula For Success"

[Kolyana]

Guys - esp. CFM - thank you! I took off the -6 rear toe and it made an immediate and noticeable difference! I actually put -1 back on again, because I found I was understeering a little too much at '0' ... but man o man, what a difference 👍

Additionally, feathering the throttle through the T2 chicane has really helped (I was completely letting off), but the main thing was increasing the rear toe ... it really helped through here.

Now ... what the fluff do I do with my suspension? Is there a way to get anything more out of it?

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd ... what's the best way to hit the left-left turn after the long sweeping right hander (just before the T2 chicane)?

 

[Kolyana]

Board updated. Over to you balls'

 

[Puck927]

Getting a late start, first run of the week:

Lap 1
T1 - 17.229 (saw 17.0xx)
T2 - 46.554

Lap 2
T1 - 10.979
T2 - 40.093 👎

All I need is to not blow the second lap like I did there and I should be good.

 

[Kolyana]

Just added you Puck.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Alright well I have yet another questionable time, but I honestly think is legal, but I sent it in to CFM, just to be sure, so if it turns out to be invalid I or CFM will let u guys know. Now that that is out of the way:

Polyphony Digital Formula Gran Turismo @ Tokyo R246

2 Lap Family Cup Race

AI -10

TCS 0

- The ()'s are my current goals -

Lap 1:
T1 - :16.871 (:16.7xx)
T2 - :45.643 (:45.5xx)

Lap 2:
T1 - :10.692 (:10.6xx)
T2 - :39.413 (:39.2xx)

Total T1 - :27.563 (:27.3xx)
Total T2 - 1:25.056 (:1:24.7xx)


jump_ace

 

[KLR142]

If you look at a car from the top view, toe out would look like this ( a little exaggerated, consider the dotted line as the axle, the slashes being the top view of the rear tires ):

\ ------ /

And toe in would look like this ( again exaggerated ):

/ ------ \

I don't know what negative toe represents, whether it's toe out or toe in, but I know that to help with turning, a slight toe out is good in RL.

Agree completely.

Odd... According to this thread: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56694, toe out is positive, in is negative... Which would make sense on this car as you'd want mega toe in for high speed turning stability.

This is another setting which has confounded me in the past like the "reversed" spring rates. Please, PLEASE someone clarify!!! :^)

-Scott

I agree with the reversed spring rates as well. And yeah, it makes sense that you'd want toe in, and I don't know for sure, but F1 cars do have some large toe in or toe out in RL, anyone have an aerial view of one on the track?

Anyway, I was playing with toe last week, and while going around one of the other tracks in the same area as the Ghymkhana(sp?), the basic course or whatever and just playing with toe. Positive toe values gave me better turning, which would/should be toe out, which is what I was going for. Thus I ended up with 4/3 being my extreme toe settings on my Jag. Now, for the F1 car, with that much supposed toe in, why would it be more stable with less toe in? Maybe it actually gets worse on both far ends of the spectrum and zero toe is the most stable...?

I'll get to going around the track again sometime tonight, with zero toe all around most likely.


EDIT: Haha, all three main Portlanders are on... 👍

 

[Kolyana]

Jump ... man ... you can't keep sending replays to CFM for verification; you're single handledly ensuring that he doesn't have any form of semblence of life!

 

[Jump_Ace]

P-Town ROX!

jump_ace

 

[Jump_Ace]

Jump ... man ... you can't keep sending replays to CFM for verification; you're single handledly ensuring that he doesn't have any form of semblence of life!

I know I know, I really dont mean to. Man now I feel about 1.5" tall.... . EDIT: Told CFM not to worry about it, after a good point made by 'anonymous'

jump_ace

 

[Z]

Fun circuit for the F1 -- except for some of the red-paved areas. Will enjoy this week if I can just stay off the walls.

Edit:

L1/2
T1: 16.620
T2: 45.238

L2/2
T1: 10.585
T2: 38.441

 

[Drew22]

Just had my first session, not pretty but it's a start

17.764
48.782

11.007
41.720

Total T1: 28.771
Total T2: 1'31.502

 

[KLR142]

Yay! First real, clean race! Toe at zero front and back, keeping full downforce... FWIW, I tried popping the rear toe to -1, and it seemed to make the car understeer more... So, I guess the real key to getting through that fast chicane is a mainly easy with the steering, or if you can't just do that quite yet, lift a LITTLE on the gas(like me). Although I plan on being able to go through there all out by the end of the week.

Splits with a good launch, nothing else good though:
T1: 16.704
T2: 46.524
T1: 11.247
T2: 41.475

Cumi. T1s: 27.951
Cumi. T2s: 1'27.999

Woah! That puts me right behind you Nat... I better go beat that time...

EDIT:
Ok, beat it... Faster by 1.3 seconds overal... With first lap T1 of a full second slower!

T1: 17.735(crappy start... )
T2: 48.390
T1: 10.882
T2: 40.830

Cumi. T1s: 28.617
Cumi. T2s: 1'29.220?(wow, my first race must've sucked)

Ok, those splits suck hardcore... Don't put them in! I'll have some REAL fast ones in a few minutes... 💡

 

[Kolyana]

You little bugger 🤬

Let me update the board in order to celebrate the recent influx of times.

 

[veilsidebr]

Is it allowed to discuss laptimes from practice mode?

 

[GT3mich]

Is it allowed to discuss laptimes from practice mode?

From the 1st post in the race thread.

Rules:


Only discuss "T" times! No full lap time discussion allowed.

Here are my T's
T1 17.148
T2 45.989

T1 10.890
T2 39.832

Driving this car at this track is like driving down a narrow tube.

 

[veilsidebr]

Ok, but i´ve seen many laps being discussed around here.

 

[CFM]

Like I said before, Negative Toe is Toe Out, and Positive Toe is Toe In. Toe out on the rear will make the rear of the car swing out very easily, hence it is handy for cars that have slow turn in, such as FWD cars. Linky:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

"The toe angle identifies the exact direction the tires are pointed compared to the centerline of the vehicle when viewed from directly above. Toe is expressed in either degrees or fractions-of-an-inch, and an axle is said to have positive toe-in when imaginary lines running through the centerlines of the tires intersect in front of the vehicle and have negative toe-out when they diverge. The toe setting is typically used to help compensate for the suspension bushings compliance to enhance tire wear. Toe can also be used to adjust vehicle handling.

Increased toe-in will typically result in reduced oversteer, help steady the car and enhance high-speed stability. Increased toe-out will typically result in reduced understeer, helping free up the car, especially during initial turn-in while entering a corner."

"With four-wheel independent suspension, the toe must also be set at the rear of the car. Toe settings at the rear have essentially the same effect on wear, directional stability and turn-in as they do on the front. However, it is rare to set up a rear-drive race car toed out in the rear, since doing so causes excessive oversteer, particularly when power is applied. Front-wheel-drive race cars, on the other hand, are often set up with a bit of toe-out, as this induces a bit of oversteer to counteract the greater tendency of front-wheel-drive cars to understeer.

Remember also that toe will change slightly from a static situation to a dynamic one. This is is most noticeable on a front-wheel-drive car or independently-suspended rear-drive car. When driving torque is applied to the wheels, they pull themselves forward and try to create toe-in. This is another reason why many front-drivers are set up with toe-out in the front. Likewise, when pushed down the road, a non-driven wheel will tend to toe itself out. This is most noticeable in rear-drive cars."

This is how I always tuned in GT3 and I doubt it's changed for GT4. I think the only difference in GT4 is that the spring rates were accidentaly reversed by the programmers.

 

[GT3mich]

I know. Kent removed some of them. Some I saw are slow anyway.

 

[veilsidebr]

I know. Kent removed some of them. Some I saw are slow anyway.

Im not discussing about being fast or slow, im discussing about being laptimes. If its not allowed, so take them out.

 

[KLR142]

First of all, the "Thread:" link in the leaderboard doesn't work for this week, it just goes to the leaderboard...

Second of all, this is REALLY pissing me off. Earlier tonight it was fun, and didn't matter all that much when I played pinball. NOW, it's REALLY getting to me. I actually know what I'm doing now... But whenever I do something decent, I mess up either at T2, or after it when I'm going around the second right after it, go WIDE and smash into the wall.

I've seen first lap T2s of 45.48x once, 45.5xx twice, and 45.8xx/45.9xx a couple times as well. I've gotten my T1 for first lap down to 16.4xx once! See .6/.7 more often though. I've got the launch down, (well, sometimes it peels out and pisses me off to wait through the stupid retry/restart buttons, why don't they just have a restart button right as you pause the game while you're racing?!), blah. Back to it, I NEED to get a clean race in. It'll be at least three seconds faster than my last fastest.

Tokyo in a twitchy car is vexing me, no pun intended. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeez. I need to get rid of some more snap oversteer at that one chicane, but how, I'm not sure.

EDIT: Solution to the snap oversteer: Had the toe at 1/1, and changed it to 1/3, might switch down to 1/2 though. So, on this car, positive toe is indeed toe-in. Yeah, switching to 1/2, 3 takes just a tad too much oversteer away from the car. With the 1/3 settings though, I could even get hairy in that chicane but SAVE IT! Woah. Oh, and I'm also running custom other settings as well, I'll post them all when I get a clean, fast race done. Hopefully soon because I have to work in the morning, but I need to get this tonight!

 

[Kolyana]

KLR, thanks for telling me about the link ... I blanked it out yesterday and forgot to come back to it 👍

 

[MinorShunt]

Wait for me Koly! I'm not on the board yet!
All this toe talk has got me scratchin' my head. (no not with my toe!)
Everything CFM says makes sense, and tests exactly like he said, it's just the way that GT4 describes + and - that has got my screw loose.
But anyway, as long as I was losing sleep, I rethought my setup, and got some new splits. Clean as a whistle, but still left a bunch of time on the track.
More fun for next session.

L1
T1: 16.761
T2: 45.019

L2
T1: 10.880
T2: 39.136 (Terrible! seen 38.6)

Here I come Z, Puck and Fasj!

 

[MisterWeary]

Yeehaa...this is my favourite combo so far I think, I just love weaving this car in and out of city streets, I feel so...dangerous

T1: 0'17.473
T2: 0'47.511
------------
T1: 0'10.790
T2: 0'40.665

My race still looks a bit messy in a few sections so I'm hoping to find another second or so but I am LOVING this race, nice combo CFM 👍

<edit> Oh yeah, I have my toe settings at 2/6...it's off to Driftsville baby, population...me! </edit>

 

[KLR142]

Seeing 16.36xs! Twice now... Gotta finish a good race though! I've had a couple, but I'm not where I want to be yet for tonight... Argh. I want to sleep!

 

[fasj6418]

well, since i will only be playing this agin over the weekend, new splits, now without TCS:

T1 - 16´895
T2 - 44´773

T1 - 10´993
T2 - 38´242

saw 44´4 in the first and 37´927 in the second, but worst time and full off touches...

best in practice was 36´9, so it might be a second difference between practice and the race...
still sucking at the start (now i´m starting in 3rd, to avoid many restarts), and i still didn´t have a perfect lap, one that i put all my best corners togheter...

but over the weekend will be fun...

 

[amp88]

3 seconds quicker than before. Before I did this run I never thought I'd improve much over my last run, but I was really underestimating the limits of the car. I've not driven the F1 car in GT4 much because I just didn't enjoy the handling at all.

Lap 1

T1: 17.515
T2: 48.103

Lap 2

T1: 11.085
T2: 41.730

 

[KLR142]

Oye, more than an hour and a half after my last clean two laps, I got this one. First lap is my fastest first lap ever, but second lap has quite a few areas where I don't go fast in order to preserve the race... I want to go to sleep! When I come back to this combo, I'll have to hit the practice mode to shave down my laps, I'm really sucking it up compared to the top runners(who I want to get nearer to this week) from T1 on. I'll be at the beach from Sat noon - Monday noon, so I'll be missing out on some playing time. Hopefully I'll wing something together with faster splits all around, except for T1 on lap one, that was my fastest ever(overall and splits wise) there, don't expect to be able to get much more than MAYBE a tenth shaved off there. One of three 16.35x's though.

T1: 16.350(NOT a typo)
T2: 45.430
T1: 10.722
T2: 40.156(meh compared to the fastest guys, I've only seen a 39.8xx twice in race mode so far)

Cumi. T1s: 27.072
Cumi. T2s: 1'25.586

 

[Casio]

First run at this, some pretty hopeless splits.

T1 - 17.291
T2 - 47.612
----
T1 - 10.908
T2 - 41.321

My settings are....

17.4/16.0
55/55
4/5
8/9
1.5/0.5
2/-3

Gears auto 21, Diff standard

Only one word to describe my final time, 'Gay', my final time is seriously gay.

 

[Randymcchickenf]

no clean, seeing 16.6 and 44.9 , 10.8 and 39.7

 

[Magdelayna]

im just doing the 24h Nurburgring to get the F1 car but ive got a question...can i just leave it on the Race monitor at 3x speed or do i have to press x everytime i go in pits to confirm it??