GT5 delayed

[jodark]

Well, like a grown-up, I'll get over it, and I'll see what I can do for my own entertainment instead of complaining about what I cannot do.

I'm sorry if I expect multi-national billion dollar corporations to be able to deliver on-time like a professional entity and do some basic time management. There exist complex software development schedulers that should have been used from the beginning. These delays are freaking Bush-league.

Frankly, Kaz had no business being put as the head of this game, creative director yes; but buck-stops-here-head-designer, absolutely not. He is the most horrific time manager in the industry. I work with people like him and they cannot get to an acceptable form of completion until you literally rip the work out of their hands. People like him would continually work on the same thing until the end of time. This is easily observed by his history of delayed games.

And I want to add one more thing to put the magnitude of scheduling failure that GT5 has been. It has taken 5 years for them from inception to eventual release to get this game done. You know what else takes 5 years? Producing a REAL car. From the concept designs to the initial CAD designs then to R&D and testing, then to arranging contracts with suppliers, getting approval from government regulators in any country and state the car will be sold in, to upgrading manufacturing, tooling for mass production, then finally, mass production, it takes 5 years for a modern car to reach the consumer hands.

 

[Instrumental]

Except that they push smaller/lesser projects out of the way in order to make room for bigger/more important releases.

How easy is that process though?

 

[Slurm]

I'm sorry if I expect multi-national billion dollar corporations to be able to deliver on-time like a professional entity and do some basic time management. There exist complex software development schedulers that should have been used from the beginning. These delays are freaking Bush-league.

Frankly, Kaz had no business being put as the head of this game, creative director yes; but buck-stops-here-head-designer, absolutely not. He is the most horrific time manager in the industry. I work with people like him and they cannot get to an acceptable form of completion until you literally rip the work out of their hands. People like him would continually work on the same thing until the end of time. This is easily observed by his history of delayed games.

You know what else stands out in his history of games? The excellence of the final product. I understand your points perfectly but IMO they represent a lot of what goes wrong with businesses as they grow larger.

 

[Falango]

I'm sorry if I expect multi-national billion dollar corporations to be able to deliver on-time like a professional entity and do some basic time management. There exist complex software development schedulers that should have been used from the beginning. These delays are freaking Bush-league.

Frankly, Kaz had no business being put as the head of this game, creative director yes; but buck-stops-here-head-designer, absolutely not. He is the most horrific time manager in the industry. I work with people like him and they cannot get to an acceptable form of completion until you literally rip the work out of their hands. People like him would continually work on the same thing until the end of time. This is easily observed by his history of delayed games.

And I want to add one more thing to put the magnitude of scheduling failure that GT5 has been. It has taken 5 years for them from inception to eventual release to get this game done. You know what else takes 5 years? Producing a REAL car. From the concept designs to the initial CAD designs then to R&D and testing, then to arranging contracts with suppliers, getting approval from government regulators in any country and state the car will be sold in, to upgrading manufacturing, tooling for mass production, then finally, mass production, it takes 5 years for a modern car to reach the consumer hands.

Why don't you go make a racing game better than GT5 then? You make it sound easy. Let me know how that goes.

 

[jodark]

You know what else stands out in his history of games? The excellence of the final product. I understand your points perfectly but IMO they represent a lot of what goes wrong with businesses as they grow larger.

You know what else stands out in his history of games? Cars that sound like vacuum cleaners and AI that is embarassing. And I won't believe that either of those things has changed until I see it.

 

[Spagetti69]

Why don't you go make a racing game better than GT5 then? You make it sound easy. Let me know how that goes.

He he that ol chestnut. Gimmie 80 million and I'll have a go.

 

[Akira AC]

I'm sorry if I expect multi-national billion dollar corporations to be able to deliver on-time like a professional entity and do some basic time management. There exist complex software development schedulers that should have been used from the beginning. These delays are freaking Bush-league.

Frankly, Kaz had no business being put as the head of this game, creative director yes; but buck-stops-here-head-designer, absolutely not. He is the most horrific time manager in the industry. I work with people like him and they cannot get to an acceptable form of completion until you literally rip the work out of their hands. People like him would continually work on the same thing until the end of time. This is easily observed by his history of delayed games.

And I want to add one more thing to put the magnitude of scheduling failure that GT5 has been. It has taken 5 years for them from inception to eventual release to get this game done. You know what else takes 5 years? Producing a REAL car. From the concept designs to the initial CAD designs then to R&D and testing, then to arranging contracts with suppliers, getting approval from government regulators in any country and state the car will be sold in, to upgrading manufacturing, tooling for mass production, then finally, mass production, it takes 5 years for a modern car to reach the consumer hands.

It take years to make a real car,PD have done at least 1 real world prototype right,so therefore according to your logic GT5 should take about 7 years in development,have you ever heard of 3d models,they are just simple CAD designs,in fact 200 of them,also the car makers don't mess up with systems problems like making game engines and scripting for objects and float variables.

The Gran Turismo making car analogy its quite silly in my opinion.

and Spagetti69 wish I had 80 million,I'll make a CoD widow maker

 

[ChUnKieBaLLz]

I'm sorry if I expect multi-national billion dollar corporations to be able to deliver on-time like a professional entity and do some basic time management. There exist complex software development schedulers that should have been used from the beginning. These delays are freaking Bush-league.

Frankly, Kaz had no business being put as the head of this game, creative director yes; but buck-stops-here-head-designer, absolutely not. He is the most horrific time manager in the industry. I work with people like him and they cannot get to an acceptable form of completion until you literally rip the work out of their hands. People like him would continually work on the same thing until the end of time. This is easily observed by his history of delayed games.

And I want to add one more thing to put the magnitude of scheduling failure that GT5 has been. It has taken 5 years for them from inception to eventual release to get this game done. You know what else takes 5 years? Producing a REAL car. From the concept designs to the initial CAD designs then to R&D and testing, then to arranging contracts with suppliers, getting approval from government regulators in any country and state the car will be sold in, to upgrading manufacturing, tooling for mass production, then finally, mass production, it takes 5 years for a modern car to reach the consumer hands.

Look, PD/Kaz don't owe you a GT game every couple years. Kaz is rich enough to stop at GT5 and pursue a full-time racing career afterwards, but he's already dedicated himself and the team to start working on GT6 right after GT5. He's not making a new GT game solely to make money from you, he's rich enough already. The main reason why he's making GT games because he loves to make them. So show the man some respect for his passion and his dedication to make the best racing games in history.

 

[jodark]

Why don't you go make a racing game better than GT5 then? You make it sound easy. Let me know how that goes.

If EA can crank out a medium quality racing sim in 2 years time (NFS:SHIFT) and Microsoft can make a good quality racing game in 2 years as well, why should it take over double the time to make a great quality racing game?

Clearly, it can't be that hard for if these other multi-billion dollar corporations are doing it without hiccups.

 

[Scoop2004]

I blame this website for how annoyed I am that we still know nothing about when it's coming out. I haven't been keeping tabs on COD so when that releases in a couple of weeks ill be happy and ill have it, but because GTP has kept me informed with the developement (with tiny amounts of progress shown every few weeks/months since GT5P came out) it makes me want it a lot and hate that I cant have it. The game is possibly going to be too good for its own good and will not run perfectly on a PS3, I can see GT6 being either a mere update of GT5 or a PS4 title, which means another several years until we see it.

 

[Scoop2004]

Oh, and didnt Kaz say GT6 was already underway the other week when he said GT5 was "finished" Does this mean Gt6 is just going to be more cars/tracks on the GT5 engine (possibly just some standard ones made premium and some 2011-2013 cars added)

Is GT5 GOLD yet? Cos this hasnt been confirmed, but it shouldnt need to be, we shouldnt be able to get this info, we should be completely in the dark as i said above,it would make the delay more bearable

 

[Akira AC]

EA can crank out a medium quality racing sim in 2 years time

medium=2 years
high=4 years
GT5=5 years

OK keep it up you're making a of yourself .

 

[jodark]

It take years to make a real car,PD have done at least 1 real world prototype right,so therefore according to your logic GT5 should take about 7 years in development,have you ever heard of 3d models,they are just simple CAD designs,in fact 200 of them,also the car makers don't mess up with systems problems like making game engines and scripting for objects and float variables.

The Gran Turismo making car analogy its quite silly in my opinion.

and Spagetti69 wish I had 80 million,I'll make a CoD widow maker

The way to make 200 3D models is that you hire 100 3D artists, and send them out in pairs of 2. They get 6 months to build each car, then at the end of 2 years, you have 200 premium 3D models. To build each model they take the cars through 3D laser scanning equipment to generate a point cloud, then use the point cloud to form the car model. The models don't need to function and have production tolerances like actual metal. Do the same with all the interiors.

Division of labor was the key to getting this game done and clearly they didn't even figure that out.

 

[BeardOfChuck]

How awesome would it be if Sony is screwing everyone and just releases the thing 2 of November. I think there actually is a change that this could be the case.Because no on nor Sony or PD have given any reason for the delay except the thing on VGChartz that is needed to be polished. Kinda week. They're saying this since beginning 2010.

But if it's not the case , which I think is more probable , it is VERY unprofessional. Not even giving any decent feedback WHY , or a new release date. And that they haven't given us a new release date worries me. I think we can expect 2011. 2 November was the ideal date. But they screwed up again... If I was some Sony SEO I would KICK the ass out off the people responsible for what ever is the reason it is delayed. And give some decent feedback. I wouldn't sleep until the damn thing ships.

 

[Akira AC]

The way to make 200 3D models is that you hire 100 3D artists, and send them out in pairs of 2. They get 6 months to build each car, then at the end of 2 years, you have 200 premium 3D models. To build each model they take the cars through 3D laser scanning equipment to generate a point cloud, then use the point cloud to form the car model. The models don't need to function and have production tolerances like actual metal. Do the same with all the interiors.

Division of labor was the key to getting this game done and clearly they didn't even figure that out.

where is the tracks
where is the game engine
where is the scripting of the cars
where is the user tools(track editor)
where is the networking programming and UI creation

PD has 197 employees not 197 artists

keep it up your making progress....

 

[ChUnKieBaLLz]

where is the tracks
where is the game engine
where is the scripting of the cars
where is the user tools(track editor)
where is the networking programming and UI creation

PD has 197 employees not 197 artists

keep it up your making progress....

👍 GT isn't just about car models. I can't even imagine how long it took/takes to hammer out the big glitches and bugs after all the code is written up. That Nurburgring track bug for one looks quite a mess to fix, and I"m sure there's plenty more funky ones that PD had to fix.

 

[scope72]

If EA can crank out a medium quality racing sim in 2 years time (NFS:SHIFT) and Microsoft can make a good quality racing game in 2 years as well, why should it take over double the time to make a great quality racing game?

Clearly, it can't be that hard for if these other multi-billion dollar corporations are doing it without hiccups.

Think of it like lap times. I can lower my lap time by 5 seconds after only 2 laps. However, as I get closer to the "theoretical maximum" it takes progressively longer to gain small amounts.

Now, I am not stating an opinion on whether that is warranted or not. What I am saying is that your statement misses what I have posted above.

 

[p-rice]

Nov 2nd is just around the corner and we still don't have a release date.
This is annoying.

 

[Spagetti69]

Nov 2nd is just around the corner and we still don't have a release date.
This is annoying.

Imagine our Japanese brethren going through March and up to TGS and beyond.

This is nothing.

 

[Zeeco_9]

The game should be here soon.

Rumor has it the delay is just due to the addition of motorcycles, intercontinental jetliners, submarines, cargo ships, bicycles, quads, snowboards, helicopters and a cross continent railroad. They are also having trouble accurately modeling the Magic Carpet as Aladdin is reluctant to grant them access to the only existing Magic Carpet in the universe.

Don’t worry folks, the game will be here just about the time when we’ve stopped using automobiles as our primary means of transportation and televisions are capable of broadcasting the 5D. See the catchy title… “GT5 in 5D” doesn’t get better than that.

 

[RAVELLRON]

however theres another sony keynote the last day of the paris games week... 31 sunday at 17:00...........

 

[sirjim73]

Ok, I am not sure what this means, but no-one else has mentioned it yet so here goes.
The Official PS3 magazine came out in the UK on Wednesday this week (i.e. 27 October). In the magazine, about 6 pages in (opposite the "Who we are" page), there is a one page advert for GT5. All it says on it (apart from the GT5 logo) is...

"TAKE IT TO THE TRACK IN NOVEMBER".

Now I know nothing about the official mag, but I am guessing, if that advert was already planned before the delay, the advert would have been removed from the magazine if the month was incorrect?

Remember this is the Official PS Magazine and they would look kinda silly if they still had the date wrong after what 2/3 weeks? They publish the magazine monthly, so surely it wasn't preprinted a month ago without anyone noticing the mistake since. I am guessing that originally it was going to run with the date of Nov 5 (the planned date) and someone has made a minor edit.

So, the question is, is the advert still incorrect (and therefore Sony have made a huge and obvious error), or do they already know the date and are just not telling us because they are waiting for the "official" announcement (maybe at the show on Sunday)?

Remember the Nov 2 date was announced at the show (E3 i think?), so it would be consistent if they used a press junket to announce the revised date (and maybe with a release trailer lined up?). My two pence worth (I am english, we trade in pence not cents lol!)

Jim

 

[jodark]

where is the tracks
where is the game engine
where is the scripting of the cars
where is the user tools(track editor)
where is the networking programming and UI creation

PD has 197 employees not 197 artists

keep it up your making progress....

Exactly. Only 197 people. They should have had a staff of at least 500.

 

[jodark]

How awesome would it be if Sony is screwing everyone and just releases the thing 2 of November. I think there actually is a change that this could be the case.Because no on nor Sony or PD have given any reason for the delay except the thing on VGChartz that is needed to be polished. Kinda week. They're saying this since beginning 2010.

But if it's not the case , which I think is more probable , it is VERY unprofessional. Not even giving any decent feedback WHY , or a new release date. And that they haven't given us a new release date worries me. I think we can expect 2011. 2 November was the ideal date. But they screwed up again... If I was some Sony SEO I would KICK the ass out off the people responsible for what ever is the reason it is delayed. And give some decent feedback. I wouldn't sleep until the damn thing ships.

YES. At any other company, heads would be rolling, careers would be eradicated and the only future contact that Kaz would have with cars is wiping windshields at traffic lights. But not at PD.

The bottom line is that Kaz was the wrong person to put in a pure managerial role.

 

[jodark]

Ok, I am not sure what this means, but no-one else has mentioned it yet so here goes.
The Official PS3 magazine came out in the UK on Wednesday this week (i.e. 27 October). In the magazine, about 6 pages in (opposite the "Who we are" page), there is a one page advert for GT5. All it says on it (apart from the GT5 logo) is...

"TAKE IT TO THE TRACK IN NOVEMBER".

Now I know nothing about the official mag, but I am guessing, if that advert was already planned before the delay, the advert would have been removed from the magazine if the month was incorrect?

Remember this is the Official PS Magazine and they would like kinda silly if they still had the date wrong after what 2/3 weeks? They publish the magazine monthly, so I surely it wasn't preprinted a month ago without any one noticing the mistake since. I am guessing that originally it was going to run with the date of Nov 5 (the planned date) and someone has made a minor edit.

So, the question is, is the advert still incorrect (and therefore Sony have made a huge and obvious error), or do they already know the date and are just not telling us because they are waiting for the "official" announcement (maybe at the show on Sunday)?

Remember the Nov 2 date was announced at the show (E3 i think?), so it would be consistent if they used a press junket to announce the revised date (and maybe with a release trailer lined up?). My two pence worth (I am english, we trade in pence not cents lol!)

Jim

Magazine's are prepared 1-2 months ahead of time. They were finishing the copy of the late October issue in late September. Though they probably could have swapped out the advert after the delay was announced.

 

[tyl0r_r]

Exactly. Only 197 people. They should have had a staff of at least 500.

No! They should have had a staff of 10,000 men and 40 unicorns! The game could've been done in a day!

It doesn't matter what they "should have had", they have the people they have and it's taking this long for those people to do it. Should it have been done already? Yeah, it should've been done in March when it was due out in Japan. This is Gran Turismo, when it SHOULD be finished doesn't mean a lot to this series, as a matter of history.

Also, you're TRIPLE posting... the mods are going to tie you up and throw rocks at you.

Edit: And if Kaz were the wrong man for the job they wouldn't be letting him have his 6th crack at it with GT5, would they? Hell, GT6 is already basically confirmed for development even. If he were the wrong man for the job the series would have gone stagnant or tanked by now.

 

[jodark]

No! They should have had a staff of 10,000 men and 40 unicorns! The game could've been done in a day!

It doesn't matter what they "should have had", they have the people they have and it's taking this long for those people to do it. Should it have been done already? Yeah, it should've been done in March when it was due out in Japan. This is Gran Turismo, when it SHOULD be finished doesn't mean a lot to this series, as a matter of history.

Also, you're TRIPLE posting... the mods are going to tie you up and throw rocks at you.

Sorry, I couldn't find the "Multi-quote" option/button. Where is it found?

*Edit* NVM, found it. It just looks different in this forum. My apologies.

Edit: And if Kaz were the wrong man for the job they wouldn't be letting him have his 6th crack at it with GT5, would they? Hell, GT6 is already basically confirmed for development even. If he were the wrong man for the job the series would have gone stagnant or tanked by now.

I said he's the wrong man to put in a head managerial role.

 

[sirjim73]

Sadly, I kind of agree with the post above. Kaz is a wonderful producer and designer and the game is going to be awesome, but he needs some kind of MD to take overall responsibility and kick butt when Kaz goes all ADD on us.

For those people who say that it takes 5 years to get a great game out, all I will say is Naughty Dog released Uncharted 1 and Uncharted 2 in four years.

I am aware I am not using a driving game for comparison so please do not harangue me for it lol

http://cache.gtpla.net/forum/images/smilies/scared.gif

BUT Uncharted 2 has just won the poll for best game on any Playstation ever (PS1, PS2 and PS3) in the UK magazine, and Uncharted 1 was in the top 50 as well. So in the time we have been waiting for GT5, they have managed to create the best game ever made on a Playstation AND its predecessor, whilst PD have given us GT5 Prologue (which was actually pretty decent for a demo I thought, but not as good as Uncharted 1 which took about the same amount of time to make), and GT5 which is still not yet out.

If Uncharted 2 was made in 2 years, GT5 has to be 2.5 times better than Uncharted 2 to have earned the right to take 5 years to make?

I am a big fan of GT and always will be (and have bought all previous versions, even bought a PSP when GT PSP came out), and I will be buying GT5 whenever it turns up. But, whoever/whatever was responsible for the delay, heads should roll.

I am an Accountant and if I tell our biggest client that a job will be completed by a certain date then I have to get it done by that date. NO EXCUSES. If I do not get it done in time, we likely lose the client and I probably lose my job. There are many many people who have been made unemployed in the world in the last 2 years, who never missed a major deadline. Why should employees of Sony/PD be any different with the biggest release Sony will make on the PS3? I do not know who is to blame, but in the end the buck must stop somewhere right? Rant over. Now back to waiting for the revised release date...

http://cache.gtpla.net/forum/images/smilies/crazy.gif

EDIT - I took out the smilies because I do not know how to get them to work properly lol.
SECOND EDIT - NFS Hot Pursuit is a driving game that Criterion have produced in 2 years. And they produced Burnout Paradise in 2 years. So they can manage to do what PD can't. Maybe we should ask them to do GT6? As far as I can remember, they have never missed a deadline on umpteen Burnout games... lol

 

[Devedander]

How awesome would it be if Sony is screwing everyone and just releases the thing 2 of November. I think there actually is a change that this could be the case.Because no on nor Sony or PD have given any reason for the delay except the thing on VGChartz that is needed to be polished. Kinda week. They're saying this since beginning 2010.

This is highly unlikely... it's a lot of bad press, some of which has already taken it's toll (ie people have blown their video game budget for the near future on something else) and a lesson was learned by the entire industry from Sega with the dreamcast.

 

[BORDER323]

Sadly, I kind of agree with the post above. Kaz is a wonderful producer and designer and the game is going to be awesome, but he needs some kind of MD to take overall responsibility and kick butt when Kaz goes all ADD on us.

For those people who say that it takes 5 years to get a great game out, all I will say is Naughty Dog released Uncharted 1 and Uncharted 2 in four years.

I am aware I am not using a driving game for comparison so please do not harangue me for it lol

http://cache.gtpla.net/forum/images/smilies/scared.gif

BUT Uncharted 2 has just won the poll for best game on any Playstation ever (PS1, PS2 and PS3) in the UK magazine, and Uncharted 1 was in the top 50 as well. So in the time we have been waiting for GT5, they have managed to create the best game ever made on a Playstation AND its predecessor, whilst PD have given us GT5 Prologue (which was actually pretty decent for a demo I thought, but not as good as Uncharted 1 which took about the same amount of time to make), and GT5 which is still not yet out.

If Uncharted 2 was made in 2 years, GT5 has to be 2.5 times better than Uncharted 2 to have earned the right to take 5 years to make?

I am a big fan of GT and always will be (and have bought all previous versions, even bought a PSP when GT PSP came out), and I will be buying GT5 whenever it turns up. But, whoever/whatever was responsible for the delay, heads should roll.

I am an Accountant and if I tell our biggest client that a job will be completed by a certain date then I have to get it done by that date. NO EXCUSES. If I do not get it done in time, we likely lose the client and I probably lose my job. There are many many people who have been made unemployed in the world in the last 2 years, who never missed a major deadline. Why should employees of Sony/PD be any different with the biggest release Sony will make on the PS3? I do not know who is to blame, but in the end the buck must stop somewhere right? Rant over. Now back to waiting for the revised release date...

http://cache.gtpla.net/forum/images/smilies/crazy.gif

thing is with Uncharted 2 it was not written from scratch.. same with the COD games.
They create an engine that will last for 2 maybe three titles and tweak it along the way.

Gt has been almost completely re-written for GT5.

It would take quite a period of time just to write the new code for the new engine. then add all the content.
when they say it took 2.5 years to make rome.. believe it.

I have made cars for Rfactor before ( with a small team ) and it could easily take 250-300 hours just to make one car ( and we were nowhere near the same level of detail as GT )

http://www.racingpaintshop.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=691&Itemid=275

GT6 will not take as long as Kaz has said. the reason is the engine has already been written.

all GT6 will be is additional content .. and engine tweaking.

to write a completely new engine , then add all the new tracks and amazingly detailed cars... 5 years is an ok time scale IMO.