GT5 Latest News & Discussion

[Perkel]

lol @ you guys

There are two totaly diffrent builds of N-ring. One is Old and one is New. Probably we won't see old N-ring again in GT5. There is no indication to night/day cycles by thet builds.

And i will say it again , these two builds are diffrent ! It's not just shadows.
Fances crowd more detail, more colour more 3D objects etc,

 

[phosphor112]

I already explained that shadows at a different time of year would NOT be reversed. However, like Talon said, a shift in the time of day WOULD cause a reverse in shadows.

@Happy Corey- I think GT is a bit too complex for a track editor. It's kinda like saying, "Mario Kart has 40 tracks, so GT should too". I could be wrong, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

I'm contemplating creating a mock-up design for a high end simulation track creator tool. I'm generally very lazy... but I think it would be a cool project.

 

[analog]

With mod nation racers having a track creator I think that GT will be likely to have the track editor

@Happy Corey- I think GT is a bit too complex for a track editor. It's kinda like saying, "Mario Kart has 40 tracks, so GT should too". I could be wrong, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

ModNationRacers was designed from the start as a game whereby the player created everything with endless options and possiblities and it cannot be expected a track editor included in this game will make a track editor therefore more likely for GT5 apart from the fact it is proven to be technically possible.

Although a totally different game in concept or genre and MNR ( with its cartoon character ) is obviously less real or realistic, it can also not be outruled a track editor is included in GT5 perhaps somewhat the same in structure/playability ( hopefully IMO ) albeit more akin to reallife tracks ( without the loopings, etc. and limits set by the laws of physics ) and having the choice of reallife textures and backdrops.

But not getting your hopes up is perhaps still a good advice regarding this subject, as although I would love such a feature to be included ( even at the cost of consuming all of my spare time creating and finetuning my dream tracks ) I wouldn't bet on it to make the cut.

 

[Dave A]

You guys just have to look at how easily the day/night cycle works in Mod Nation Racers (at about 7:30min in the video), shouldn't it be pretty easy to do the same thing in Gran Turismo? Sure it would be a complete different system but I am confident that there will be a dynamic day/night cycle ...on the other hand I don't think that there will be dynamic weather, but that's another story.

They aren't comparable, one thing that eats up GPU power is lighting. During the daytime there is only really a single light source, the sun or rather the virtual representation of it lighting up the entire level. Night races require many light sources. This can be handled two ways, dynamic lighting where you literally create a light source for every car headlight, every street light or other light around the track. Or you can fake it, you can use brightened textures around street lights and simply use a glare effect to give the illusion that the street light is lighting that area. The "fake" option can work very well if done right and is how it has been the primary method used in the GT games night races to date as it's much more GPU friendly. The downside is that to create a dynamic 24hr cycle you need dynamic lighting which means every light needs it's own light source. When you add it up that's a lot of light sources and a lot of power required from the GPU. MNR uses much more primitive graphics and basic light sources, and less of them than a GT5 race would require. That doesn't mean it there won't be dynamic 24hr cycles in GT5, but it just means that because it's been done in MNR it doesn't mean it can be done in GT5.

 

[happycorey]

ModNationRacers was designed from the start as a game whereby the player created everything with endless options and possiblities and it cannot be expected a track editor included in this game will make a track editor therefore more likely for GT5 apart from the fact it is proven to be technically possible.

Although a totally different game in concept or genre and MNR ( with its cartoon character ) is obviously less real or realistic, it can also not be outruled a track editor is included in GT5 perhaps somewhat the same in structure/playability ( hopefully IMO ) albeit more akin to reallife tracks ( without the loopings, etc. and limits set by the laws of physics ) and having the choice of reallife textures and backdrops.

But not getting your hopes up is perhaps still a good advice regarding this subject, as although I would love such a feature to be included ( even at the cost of consuming all of my spare time creating and finetuning my dream tracks ) I wouldn't bet on it to make the cut.

That could be the case, but I could see it happening being able to make a textured track (and an existing type of location) being created as well as placing the 2D trees where necessary to create a track.

 

[freshseth83]

Doing a little research, found that another store in the UK owned by Walmart has a GT5 'expected release' of September. Not saying it's true, but this is more than 1 source/store showing a september release Read here

 

[G.T.Ace]

We had around 5 stores all using the same releasedates last year too.
Just don't read them anymore.

 

[squishydk]

I have a hard time seeing how to incorporate a good track-editor, that would be able to produce as good results as the current tracks. And i doubt that a track-editor that can do no less than that, will be in the game. Also think about the online issues, it would be rather useless for most online, unless everyone downloads the user created track of the host.

I see a lot of fun's, but most con's

I agree it's weird with the shadows. I can see no reason to change them at all, unless it's a time-cycling system.

And about this whole wheather/day-night dilema. As far as i remember, already in Tiger woods 2009? (i think) there was a weather system that could use the realtime weatherinfo from the location you chose to play at. Techincal i doubt there is any issues that prevents them from putting dynamic weather/day-night in GT5. How it will work with gameplay is a different story. For longer races, and long distance runs it would be fine. But how about 3 laps on a 2 Km track, where the weather changes, and it turns noght during those 2 runs? Would that be "simulation" as people in here talks about all the time. I really really doubt it's technical limitations that would leave it out, only gameplay issues if it is. So i wouldn't be surprised if it's shown at E3 or TGS.

I see a lot of no's but most pro's
(4 days left to the most amazing week for years...)

 

[Owen.C93]

For all th release date rumours you have to remember if one store puts a release date, then it makes sense for every other store to aswell. They might aswell put September now.

 

[freshseth83]

Stores like Walmart don't put things on display unless it's coming to their store. Game stores are different. You can pre-order games at say Gamestop much further back from a release than you can at a walmart.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Stores like Walmart don't put things on display unless it's coming to their store. Game stores are different. You can pre-order games at say Gamestop much further back from a release than you can at a walmart.

Yep...

I've had GT5 pre-ordered for a couple years now.

 

[Predwolf]

Yep...

I've had GT5 pre-ordered for a couple years now.

Well, with a comment like that, how could I not?

 

[Tapey]

They aren't comparable, one thing that eats up GPU power is lighting. During the daytime there is only really a single light source, the sun or rather the virtual representation of it lighting up the entire level. Night races require many light sources. This can be handled two ways, dynamic lighting where you literally create a light source for every car headlight, every street light or other light around the track. Or you can fake it, you can use brightened textures around street lights and simply use a glare effect to give the illusion that the street light is lighting that area. The "fake" option can work very well if done right and is how it has been the primary method used in the GT games night races to date as it's much more GPU friendly. The downside is that to create a dynamic 24hr cycle you need dynamic lighting which means every light needs it's own light source. When you add it up that's a lot of light sources and a lot of power required from the GPU. MNR uses much more primitive graphics and basic light sources, and less of them than a GT5 race would require. That doesn't mean it there won't be dynamic 24hr cycles in GT5, but it just means that because it's been done in MNR it doesn't mean it can be done in GT5.

Guerilla Games (Killzone 2) created a lighting method for the PS3 that allows them to have 1000s of lightsources onscreen at once with minimal load on the PS3s GPU. Sony promotes the sharing of first party tech so I imagine that if they were interested, PD would have recieved a little help from GG but who knows? It's certainly possible though I would think.

 

[Raitziger]

Modnation racers is actually very tough for CPU. If track editor was in GT5 it should have options to degrease image quality so that game runs smoothly.(or other way making sure that people won't greate tracks that do not run well)

 

[alucard0712]

What is Modnation Racers?And why you guys talk about it?

 

[Perkel]

Track editor is just a rumor and based on nothing. It won't happen.

only track editor i can imagine they could add is that you can choose layout yourself for eg. on twin ring motegi.

 

[alucard0712]

Track editor is just a rumor and based on nothing. It won't happen.

only track editor i can imagine they could add is that you can choose layout yourself for eg. on twin ring motegi.

Exactly my thoughts.Kaz says: "It won't be that track editor you thinking about".And keeping in mind "LOCATIONS" I also can conclude - track editor means track layout editor.

 

[trk29]

I for one think that there wouldn't be one. Just take a look at how detailed the tracks are now. Could you imagine how long it would take to create a track from scratch with grass, roads, bumper strips, sand, gaurdrails, stadiums, trees, tunnels, bridges, I could go on and on. Plus the size of them to download.

 

[Spagetti69]

Probably take about 5 years or more.

 

[Tapey]

I for one think that there wouldn't be one. Just take a look at how detailed the tracks are now. Could you imagine how long it would take to create a track from scratch with grass, roads, bumper strips, sand, gaurdrails, stadiums, trees, tunnels, bridges, I could go on and on. Plus the size of them to download.

If it was done the same way as Modnation Racers? Not very long at all. You'd just drive around an open field to set the layout, and trees/buildings/etc would just be objects you put wherever you wanted. PD could definitely do a similar track editor, but I don't think they have the time to dedicate to it. A track such as High Speed Ring however would take minutes to recreate in Modnation.

Modnation racers is actually very tough for CPU. If track editor was in GT5 it should have options to degrease image quality so that game runs smoothly.(or other way making sure that people won't greate tracks that do not run well)

That wouldn't be needed. All they would have to do is set a limit to how large the track can be (in miles or whatever) and have a limit on how many objects you can place around the track. That's how Modnation does it and there is never any slowdown when racing custom tracks because of it.

 

[trk29]

If it was done the same way as Modnation Racers? Not very long at all. You'd just drive around an open field to set the layout, and trees/buildings/etc would just be objects you put wherever you wanted. PD could definitely do a similar track editor, but I don't think they have the time to dedicate to it. A track such as High Speed Ring however would take minutes to recreate in Modnation.


.

Yes but the detail between the two games is very different.. If someone just made a dirt oval track, and a nurburgring the total file size would be dramatically different. I'm sure you would see a file size over a 1gb if someone got crazy with the tool.

 

[IROC89CAMARO]

I for one think that there wouldn't be one. Just take a look at how detailed the tracks are now. Could you imagine how long it would take to create a track from scratch with grass, roads, bumper strips, sand, gaurdrails, stadiums, trees, tunnels, bridges, I could go on and on. Plus the size of them to download.

Probably take about 5 years or more.

 

[CoolColJ]

Man I must say the Kaz on the ring footage looks a hell of a lot like the recent GT5 vids of the same track we've seen lately!

http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/gallery/d9298n2.html

And to the people who think wind and road noise is not loud in a race car at speed, watch the above vid

 

[trk29]

Man I must say the Kaz on the ring footage looks a hell of a lot like the recent GT5 vids of the same track we've seen lately!

http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/gallery/d9298n2.html

And to the people who think wind and road noise is not loud in a race car at speed, watch the above vid

Yes after watching so many vids of the ring on GT5 it does look really good and exact.

About the noise. I wonder what that noise is clack clack clack when he goes tight and slow in the curves? Front of the body hitting the ground? I don't know.

 

[Tenacious D]

only track editor i can imagine they could add is that you can choose layout yourself for eg. on twin ring motegi.

That's not a track editor. Choosing "courses" is what we get in all Gran Turismos.

By the way, I was reminded that Kaz set the second best lap in the team, so whoever said he wasn't all that great a racer might want to be a bit more precise on what they mean, exactly.

 

[paskowitz]

The Ring in the most recent GT5 videos look really good compared to KY's lap. The lighting is almost exactly the same. Its that late afternoon, heavy shadow but still really bright time of day. At first it seemed a bit exaggerated but I far prefer it to that other racing game's overcast calm before the storm vibe.

 

[Griffith500]

Regarding lighting: I don't know about Killzone, but I do know that Dirt 2 uses deferred lighting to allow for the crazy number of lights in the night-time events - it also allows for a kind-of environment lighting model (by simulating aggregate light bounces as separate light sources - adding huge numbers of lights, typically.) I'm not sure if Dirt 2 does the latter, though its environments (in the daytime) are typically "well lit". Indeed, the recent footage of GT5 has a similar "environmental" feel to the lighting.

Anyway, deferred lighting is no holy grail of rendering - it has its downfalls.
Here's an example discussion.

Here's a nice summary.
The main con is clearly anti-aliasing related. Also, dynamic (scene) shadowing negates the performance gains for complex geometry. The former is a non-issue if PD use the "new" MLAA (MorphoLogical Anti-Aliasing) algorithm (which would be executed on the SPUs, not the GPU; effectively in software, not hardware - it's all software executing on hardware, mind you; I didn't "invent" the terms...).
The latter could have huge implications for a day / night cycle in GT5, depending on how many sources cast shadows. I don't remember much about dynamic scene shadowing algorithms, but I do know they're all a pain to properly optimise.

Anyway, I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to whether any of these techniques are suitable to be applied to GT5.

The bottom line for Day / Nights cycles on PS3 in GT5 is:

1. It's possible - without even a shadow of a doubt (either using deferred lighting or some other combination of techniques).
2. It's one hell of a technical challenge given the "standard" of the visuals we are all now expecting.
3. If PD chose to do it, then they probably have a working system. Whether it makes the final cut is another issue...

 

[Quintin03]

Could you imagine how long it would take to create a track from scratch with grass, roads, bumper strips, sand, gaurdrails, stadiums, trees, tunnels, bridges, I could go on and on. Plus the size of them to download.

I'm trying to find it out.

 

[Perkel]

That's not a track editor. Choosing "courses" is what we get in all Gran Turismos.

By the way, I was reminded that Kaz set the second best lap in the team, so whoever said he wasn't all that great a racer might want to be a bit more precise on what they mean, exactly.

Nope dude. I mean you can create your layout on track, also you could add :

 

[Dave A]

That's not a track editor. Choosing "courses" is what we get in all Gran Turismos.

By the way, I was reminded that Kaz set the second best lap in the team, so whoever said he wasn't all that great a racer might want to be a bit more precise on what they mean, exactly.

It was me. He drove faster than a journalist and a road tester. His team featured 1 professional racing driver, who was the fastest.

The others like Kaz had racing experience but weren't professional racing drivers. There was no point bringing it up again really. If he had dedicated his life to racing he might have been a great driver and he might not have been, we don't know. There's plenty of racing drivers who can drive as fast or faster than Kaz. If I'm knocking him down it's only off that stupidly high pedestal some people place him on, he's a great driver compared to me but I bet he'd get thrashed racing against Jason Plato or Matt Neil in a BTCC race. Ultimately though what matters isn't how fast he can race, but how he can use the experience to improve Gran Turismo.