GT6 'MY HOME' HUB: Awards time.

[photonrider]

But I do know that if I ever drove the Nordschleife in person, I would wish I could have SRF and a pause/restart button 💡

Heh heh, John, so would we all. Fortunately the simulation stops short of killing us and disabling the car on the first bang, or else we would never be able to actually get to the end of the race. Nature of the game, I guess.

@photonrider As far as the slipstream of the McLaren, it seemed to me that when I was right on his back bumper at the beginning of the straight, he wouldn't accelerate fast enough. It's like he wanted me to pass him (which obviously would help him draft a bit, so maybe that was his plan ). Can't really say for certain, and I don't really know much about any of the other cars.

We have to keep investigating as we play - the more we know, the more we can understand this game. There is a weird 'slipstream' effect at play, strong enough at times to take one's car and fling it off the track, and I have spent many hours 'tail-gaiting' the AI that have this peculiar characteristic. As I mentioned before, Players that jump into a car and leave the AI in the dust don't really experience this sort of stuff. But if one hangs with them (either deliberately or because the choice of car plants them firmly in the pack) then all sorts of weird phenomena take place. This also is a characteristic of only certain cars, others will actually move over in a textbook racing style to let you pass. All these different characteristics work to give each AI driver/car combo a certain 'personality'.
And also provides for some racing excitement.
The trick is to find oneself a car that is a good 'match' (factoring in one's own particular racing/driving skills) and at that point what happens is - for example in a 5 lap race - the Player will have to fight through the pack to the end (or middle) of the fourth lap, at which point the Player meets up with the leader, and then the leader will race the player for all their worth all the way to the finish line in the last lap.
In a way it's a compressed form of a longer RL race - and considering it's a game - quite well-engineered.
Obviously the AI is a work in progress, and human ingenuity being what it is, will always be, as we push the limits of developing 'conscious' AI.

Thank you for joining us in this project. 👍

___________________________

I see a lot of work ahead of me in the next few days, so if you guys can give me a hand sorting out the winning times I would more than appreciate it.

As well - I think it would be only fair to have the winners select some Events/type of challenges for the next round.
For example the winner of last round's A-Spec Expert Level challenge could suggest the car/type of challenge for the next A-Spec Expert Level event, and so on. I will continue to set up the B-Spec Events myself.

I hope to come by later and do a whole lot of cleaning up - until then - good gaming, and may you have the most scintillating races!

 

[MTM79]

if you guys can give me a hand sorting out the winning times I would more than appreciate it.

Sure thing!

Mini VGT @ Expert seasonal

1st - John 3 16 - 7:14.071 (post #350)
2nd - nowayback - 7:14.417 (post #346)
3rd - Vic Reign93 - 7:15.276 (post #331)

300ZX @ Intermediate seasonal

1st - Vic Reign93 - 7:22.660 (post #355)
2nd - MTM79 - 7:34.686 (post #354)
3rd - hall90 - 7:39.027 (post #345)

300ZX @ Spa, GT-Series Race 2 (B-spec)

1st - Vic Reign93 - 12:13.944 (post #351)
2nd - MTM79 - 12:30.668 (post #354)
3rd - photonrider - 13:02.049 (post #334)

Bobzilla Brawl (B-spec)

1st - MTM79 - 6:39.851 (post #357)
2nd - photonrider - 7:02.060 (post #356)

Also I'm pretty sure there was at some point a challenge for Midget @ Beginner seasonal, but couldn't find it just now..

Anyway, I did go for it and finished with a time of 5:31.283 (post #357)

Nice driving everyone.

 

[photonrider]

Thank you so much, @MTM79 - very, very much appreciated. 👍 👍
Yes, there was a Midget challenge - I wiped it off the board as soon as the new Seasonals was in. Seems like you grabbed that title, too.
Now that you've done all the hard work I can focus on all the 'artsy-fartsy' stuff later on tonight and pretty up the OP and the Wall of fame.



Edit: Friday 13th March.

Dang. I just spent an hour updating the OP and when trying to save the update found myself logged out and all my work vaporised.

Guess I'll have to try again later.

* leaves disgusted.

 

[photonrider]

Well, guys, I was here this morning - did a whole bunch of work on the thread, and then in my haste became stupid and forget how the system works. So a whole lot of stuff that was input got wiped out by mistake and I have to start all over again.
I'll try to fix up everything over the weekend.
The way I read it, John takes the Expert, Vic grabs the Intermediate, and MTM has the Beginner.
MTM also swipes the Open B-Spec Bobzilla Trophy.
Vic, MTM, and I go on with the B-Spec Series Challenge - 2 more races to go in that Series, but that shouldn't put off anybody else coming in and grabbing some points.

Next step?

John sets up a challenge for the Expert, Vic thinks up a challenge for the Intermediate, and MTM chooses the challenge for the Beginner for this round; please use the current Seasonals to do so.
You may choose to have a featured car, or leave the choice as optional.
You may go for fastest time, or any other challenge you can come up with. Get creative!
No hurry - just let me know what the shenanigans are going to be at least by Sunday evening so I can set up the OP.

I already have the B-Spec 2nd race for the B-Spec Series (Hint: Lambo this time around - let's see what Bob does with a mean Italian machine) and will throw this into the OP at the same time.
I also have a Bonus challenge ready - so all in all we'll have 5 Challenges to work on over the next week - should keep us busy competing.

Pedal to the metal!

Harry.

 

[MTM79]

OK, I have a plan for the Beginner challenge. We are going for the fastest player time at Special Stage R5 in an Autozam. Must finish on 1st place overall. Not the easiest car to drive but a very fun ride. I've won three races in a row with different opponents and gap to leading AI ranging from 0,077 seconds to 0,698 seconds. Here's the current best time for you to chase.

Have fun!

 

[Vic Reign93]

Seeing what I've got to work with, I choose the Pontiac Firebird Trans Am '78 for the Trail Mountain Battle.

No time set yet so break out your inner Burt Reynolds and make that Bandit Run.

Fastest time wins.

 

[John 3 16]

Ok, the Madrid Battle:

Let's go with fastest time wins, and any allowed car, aids, etc is fair game. But no tuning to the car is allowed. The only performance changes that can be made to the car are changing tires if comfort soft isn't standard, and anything in the pits (so oil change is allowed). So basically, pick a car and drive fast! 👍

Sound good??

 

[photonrider]

OK, I have a plan for the Beginner challenge. We are going for the fastest player time at Special Stage R5 in an Autozam. Must finish on 1st place overall. Not the easiest car to drive but a very fun ride. I've won three races in a row with different opponents and gap to leading AI ranging from 0,077 seconds to 0,698 seconds. Here's the current best time for you to chase.

View attachment 329854

Have fun!

Holy crap! That is going to be a real hard challenge. For me anyway. I'm thinking I'm going to be at least 30 seconds off that time. Still - an exciting challenge to work on. Shall post my time anyway for whatever it's worth.

Seeing what I've got to work with, I choose the Pontiac Firebird Trans Am '78 for the Trail Mountain Battle.

No time set yet so break out your inner Burt Reynolds and make that Bandit Run.

Fastest time wins.

Great challenge. Impatient to try that one, too. Hope I have some time at the console this afternoon.

Ok, the Madrid Battle:

Let's go with fastest time wins, and any allowed car, aids, etc is fair game. But no tuning to the car is allowed. The only performance changes that can be made to the car are changing tires if comfort soft isn't standard, and anything in the pits (so oil change is allowed). So basically, pick a car and drive fast! 👍

Sound good??

John - one of the problems we have with 'Forum' challenges is credibility.
Yes, we can all agree to be honest, but there is no way in heck that we could prove that everyone is following 'agreed-upon' rules. For instance everyone here may strictly follow the 'agreed-upon' rules but if some newcomer enters with a faster time and they have tweaked their car even a little bit we would not be able to disprove that, and that would lead to bad feelings.
There are of course many 'stock' type challenge threads out there and we all take it for granted that every player in there is following the rules and not secretly tuning their BB or using 'Chase-cam' when 'Driver's-eye' view was agreed upon.
For those that want to participate in those type of challenges those threads are available and we do not interfere in their doings - in fact many of the players who take part in the challenges here, at the AI Center, also take part in the 'agreed-upon'-ruled challenges in those threads. So those who don't like the 'Level-playing-field' challenges in here have no lack of such 'no-tuning-allowed!' challenges.
However - the challenges in here are unique.
In fact, some of them are unrepeatable and once done are gone and are never able to be repeated again. And because the rules are locked in place by the rules governing the event itself and are strictly applicable to all participants the leeway to cheat is minimal.
So I do ask you to reconsider the challenge you have offered up - and tailor one where the possibility of tweaking in any way other than what the event itself permits, is minimal.
For the stock challenge we can always go off to the stock challenge thread.
And for racing stock - we can always participate in COTW challenges; a great series that I recommend to anybody interested in racing cars stock.

 

[John 3 16]

@photonrider - I understand and agree completely 👍 So my updated challenge is this- the Madrid battle using a Mini Cooper S '11. Fastest time wins.

 

[photonrider]

Thank you for understanding; I add another scholar and gentleman to my list. 👍
And good choice on the Cooper - that is going to be fun.
Just sent my B-Spec driver off in a Ford GT '06 on RS to do the Rainmaster Challenge at de la sarthe and set him to 'My own Pace' and he wiped the board clean. No interference from me. This guy is starting to make me feel jealous.

Back to the console now to work on some of the challenges - not sure what to begin with - the Trans-Am sounds intriguing, the Autozam somewhat suspenseful, and the Cooper a lot of fun. Guess I'm going to do them all anyway.

Back to the future soon.

____________________________

Edit:

Took the Trans Am out first and first shy got me an 8:56:390. Obviously even if I manage to clip 2- 3 secs off a lap that's not going to help when Vic comes in with his sub-8:00 time.
This car is heavy!
I'm thinking of sacrificing top end and mass momentum for a lighter car and some agility. I would think low end torque is important here.
To the drawing board again . . .

Edit:

Rally suspension and a lighter car netted me 8:47:159, but the car is gasping on the straight before the final corners to the home stretch. Need to further tune this beast.

Edit:

Down to 8:40:476 now with a slight boost to the tranny. Meanwhile those lead rabbits keep up whatever pace I'm making and hang on to my tail. Just to bug me I suppose.

 

[MTM79]

Might as well post initial results for the Trans Am and Mini.

 

[photonrider]

Wham! Bam! Alakazam!

No more playing for me today, maybe later.
The Autozam is the Japanese answer to the Stratos. Not the easiest of cars to drive.
Had to drive exceptionally clean to not get flung off the track by the AI.
Great challenge. But nowhere close to the fast time.

 

[MTM79]

Wham! Bam! Alakazam!

No more playing for me today, maybe later.
The Autozam is the Japanese answer to the Stratos. Not the easiest of cars to drive.
Had to drive exceptionally clean to not get flung off the track by the AI.
Great challenge. But nowhere close to the fast time.

Nice one! Can't beat the feeling when you're racing for the finish line and the headlights in the rear view mirror start to catch up.

Had one more go with the Trans Am. Starting to find my inner B.Reynolds.

 

[John 3 16]

I've seen a couple of cars using Reverse in Turn 1 at Madrid (myself included)

I did run an 8:43.296 (not using Reverse).

 

[photonrider]

Nice one! Can't beat the feeling when you're racing for the finish line and the headlights in the rear view mirror start to catch up.

It is a gut-wrenching feeling. There is no thought of blocking - even if I had the inclination; in a car this light the AI would just run you over. There is only one way to beat them - run like hell and hope to get away.
Even though I have played Gran Turismo for years and through many iterations (leaving TT aside) I cannot remember ever running the Autozam. What an eye-opener!
I first ran the car stock - 'bone' stock - nothing touched. I was mesmerized by the way it drove. 'People actually build cars like this?' I thought. It was very 'driveable' though excrutiatingly slow in contrast to the field. So I took it back to GTAuto, painted it, gave it new wheels, boosted it up in every way possible and took it out again.
Now I had what would happen if the Stratos and the Midget had had a child.

If I said that I had taken it to the finish line only twice that would be the truth. But not the whole truth.

I had several restarts till I had figured out this little heart-stopper. TG I drive Manual.
Used my usual settings, TCS 1, ABS 1, no NOS, but had to lock SRF on for the second more successful run.
Interesting car and definitely a keeper. I intend to run this all off at the novice events soon - going to be very engrossing. I was breathing hard throughout.
The rabbits were mad as hell.

Had one more go with the Trans Am. Starting to find my inner B. Reynolds.

View attachment 330342

Funny you should mention Burt Reynolds - since another Reynolds came to mind recently - Osborn Reynolds, the guy who came up with the Reynolds number pertaining to Chaos Theory. There is something going on with the AI.
More on that later . . ..

Still work to do on the OP which I will complete tomorrow.

 

[nowayback]

A few laps with Mini, pretty good handling.
should get under 8:30 .
And firebird, didn't expect such a nice drive with it here. 3rd lap crash here

And the Zam.

Like all 3 tracks, don't know which one I will stick with.

 

[photonrider]

I see you found your way back to suitably add to my humiliation.



Good to see you throw in your times again. 👍 I'm beginning to like these three events - in addition to what we can do to our usual grinding at the Seasonals.
Haven't tried the Expert yet, but that's because with what little time I had I was curious about what the 'Zam could do, as well as playing bandit with the Firebird.

The OP was further enhanced with a full list of all previous winners.
The Wall of Fame still needs work - have to find all the relevant records of the past few events, and the help from MTM helped of course.
Also more work needed on the Rabittionary, as well as the History of B-Spec Bob; I intend to make this thread a good read for all those interested in the AI of this game.

Seems like the only thing now actually getting in the way of me playing Gran Turismo is GTPlanet.

 

[MTM79]

Tough times @nowayback . Going to be difficult to keep up. I only managed to improve my Trial Mountain time today.



Enough for 2nd place at the moment.

Funny fact @photonrider . Hadn't heard from Reynolds' number for a long time so I took Google out to refresh memories. Turns out there is a movie titled Chaos Theory, starring Ryan Reynolds.

 

[Vic Reign93]

Did someone order a sub?

A sub 8:00 time that is.

 

[MTM79]

Some serious times.. If I were to beat those times, I would have to drive with a beafed up Corvette or Viper at Trial Mountain and an Elise 111R at Madrid. No chance with the feature cars. Not to mention the Autozam.. I can only see improvement through track specific tunes and that is beyond my skills or schedule. Nice times, really! 👍

But, that also freed me to explore different cars and while doing so, I noticed something funny at the expert event. I made a test, going first with a stock Renault Megane. Finishing 9th, terrible time and so forth. Then I tuned the car to the max and drove the same race, same line up. I won and my time was over one minute faster! Some effect the tuning has.

You would expect that the AI would drive faster also, as they have been doing in the previous races, but no. The lead rabbit actually was faster when I drove stock.. Go figure.

Spoiler: Race results

 

[photonrider]

Funny fact @photonrider . Hadn't heard from Reynolds' number for a long time so I took Google out to refresh memories. Turns out there is a movie titled Chaos Theory, starring Ryan Reynolds.

Having just come away from reading Stephen King's 11/22/63 this makes a lot more sense to me than you could ever imagine. Harmonic distortion.

You would expect that the AI would drive faster also, as they have been doing in the previous races, but no. The lead rabbit actually was faster when I drove stock.. Go figure.

Rushing through here, since I'm flying in and out on my way to work - but question: Were you close to the rabbits when you were driving stock, and conversely - did you stretch the 'rubberband' to the max when you were running a tuned car?
The more we learn about GT AI it seems the more we learn that the less we know.

If you look at the times I posted when I ran the Firebird, you will see that the AI were giving me a race. To put it another way, they hang back just enough to make you run at your fastest, like precise driving instructors dogging your tail and saying "One mistake, buddy, one mistake, and we'll have your scalp."

But if you get too far, they lose interest and go back to racing each other.

Back later tonight.
Keep running!

 

[MTM79]

Rushing through here, since I'm flying in and out on my way to work - but question: Were you close to the rabbits when you were driving stock, and conversely - did you stretch the 'rubberband' to the max when you were running a tuned car?
The more we learn about GT AI it seems the more we learn that the less we know.

These were the first two races I ran when the event appeared, so I don't recall all the details anymore. But looking at the timetables I posted, in the stock race I was 50 seconds behind the leading pack. So quite safe to say they raced each other without me getting in the way.

On the tuned race, I took 1st place on lap 3 or 4 and eventually won with a gap of almost 9 seconds. This tells me that they had at least one lap to give their best trying to crab the lead back. Still the end result in these two races from AI's part was almost same, about 2 seconds apart in final time

If you look at the times I posted when I ran the Firebird, you will see that the AI were giving me a race. To put it another way, they hang back just enough to make you run at your fastest, like precise driving instructors dogging your tail and saying "One mistake, buddy, one mistake, and we'll have your scalp."

But if you get too far, they lose interest and go back to racing each other.

This is exactly what I would have expected, them to 'wait' for me to catch up in the slow car and then giving pressure after being overtaken.

Only explanation I can come up with is, that the current patch of AI drivers can do a 9 minute race on their own. This is what happened in the stock race, they raced peacefully and in good order. I managed only to cause disturbance for the last few drivers. In tuned race I took first place and V.Hagen with the Clio tries to respond, but perhaps loses control and hits a wall? As a result he falls behind L.Noel's Peugeot and can't overtake anymore.

I'm puzzled because at the previous events where we tried to find best possible AI time, they reacted to our own times always. If I did 10 seconds faster overall time, the AI would improve their own time by a certain amount. Always. Here it didn't happen.

 

[photonrider]

....................

I'm puzzled because at the previous events where we tried to find best possible AI time, they reacted to our own times always. If I did 10 seconds faster overall time, the AI would improve their own time by a certain amount. Always. Here it didn't happen.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Remember, though, that at some events the leaders, when pushed, went so fast that they wiped out - Papp at Brand's hatch, and David at Laguna Seca come to mind.
In a tight course with hard corners pushing the leader seems to throw their 60FPS calculations into a tizzy.

This gets more interesting. Hm.

Edit: 19th March;

Just swinging by to say that I'm getting more and more caught up in RL. Don't let this stop you guys from competing with each other. I'll try to keep maintaining the momentum as best as i can; unfortunately the system is set up in a way that I cannot hand over the thread to another - so we will have to work like this for some time. Can't remember when I last had a 5-day login bonus - always many days in between my chances to play.
In any case, don't give up on pushing the envelope and tearing into the guts of the GT AI.

 

[photonrider]

Another round over . . .
Time flies.

I've updated the OP - simply took off the previous-to-last round's winners, and closed the last round.
Decisions now as to who is the Mountain Bandit, who the Hot Hatch Hondo, and to whom goes the AUTOZAMMER Award.
Pick your bones!

I, of course, retreat, licking my wounds.

____________________________________

A fresh round of events coming up - guess we should let it settle in for a few days, and as usual formulate something over the coming weekend, thinking up ways to challenge our skills.
And as usual - the winners of each challenge get to pick a way to pit ourselves against each other as well as against the AI for the particular challenge they won; Beginner Winner designs new Beginner Challenge and so on . . ..
I still have the challenges ready for the promised B-Spec events, but haven't had proper time to post them clearly and securely. Believe I'm impatient to do so - you will find them interesting.

And the winners are . . .

*opens envelop.

 

[MTM79]

Quick check of last rounds results. Top 3 for each event:

Beginner:
1-nowayback
2-MTM79
3-photonrider

Intermediate:
1-Vic Reign93
2-nowayback
3-MTM79

Expert:
1-nowayback
2-John 3 16
3-MTM79

Correct me if I'm wrong. Trying to sort em out on the phone while putting my kid to sleep so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something.

 

[photonrider]

Looks good to me.

@nowayback! Have you got lost again? You get to keep John and MTM in suspense?

So David is back, and doing 1:15s or thereabouts. If pushed too hard he spins out, but it seems like the majority of players dread this guy. Beating him is the thing.
Another thought - Some events booted up the fastest rabbit in the lineup right away - first go.
But now it seems like David waits in the wings and then jumps in ----why? When?
I got Gross on my first try, then David on my second.
From all the tests done so far, this driver David is one of the fastest drivers overall in many of the high speed events.
It's a good feeling to beat him.

Beginners Event is extremely fun, considering the wide varierty of cars that can be used. A great opportunity to take some smaller cars back to the shop and play with them, from small convertibles, to small-block compacts.

Intermediate is extremely addictive.
I took a '84 GTO out, and kept getting win after win, reeling through the fields only to find that the fastest driver I could find was Calabrese in the Zonda. The GTO, stock, delimited, is just a dream drive around the Alps - what a chance to drive this thoroughbred horse around this countryside dodging traffic, and exotic traffic at that.
You could even mistake it for a race, hoping to not see any flashing lights behind you.
Now I want to drive every dang Ferrari I have up and down that hill and around and around those hairpins, roaring round the sweepers.

Haven't driven the Expert, yet, just rolled through the fields for my records, checked the line-ups - there are some very interesting slower fields, where one can relax a bit and enjoy the course and the car a bit more. looking forward to that soon - and especially my own battle with David, that rabid bastard.

 

[MTM79]

Lot's of new opponents this week. One stood out with his name. At intermediate event I spotted A.Vatanen driving a TVR Griffith 500!! Some big boots to fill for that AI.

 

[photonrider]

Some run. Pretty scary - I have new respect for that car. Infinite throttle control and an iron will at the cliff edge - he also needs a third hand - to keep the glare out of his eyes.
Another mystery - why the Griffith? And the GT6 version of Vatanen sure has some big boots to fill.

Saw your note about the mistake in the Gullwing Commander Nordschleife 300 SL '54 award, and now fixed; thanks a lot, MTM.

TGIF. Finally the weekend looms and my chance to sit down and hunt David. My P4 awaits.

 

[nowayback]

Expert ....Shelby daytona '64, I think...wont be near PS3 till Sunday night. Closest to David. Win if you can or best time.

 

[photonrider]

So . . . closest to David? We don't have to win?
That could be fun, tailing him and trying to steal the win.
Shelby Daytona '64. A legendary monster against the newcomer. A different take on high-speed aerodynamics.
This could be more than fun, this could interesting.
Trying to get David to play is the only thing . . . wonder if flowers and chocolates would work.

To encapsulate:
Expert Level - set by nowayback. Car: said Daytona. Object: Narrowest time between David and Player. Regulations: All options as per the Online event as set by PD.

Good one 👍
I have about half an hour right now at the console before I leave again for work - will try this out right away.
I took the P4 out this morning for a first run - Gross on pole, David in P2, but I was dawdling, figuring out this track - only raced it a couple of times before at COTW races.
Such a great track - I'm quickly getting addicted to it - seems like this round it is the Expert race that is going to hold most of my attention. These high speed sweepers and sudden elbows mixed with deceptive straights make a great course for the higher PP cars.

Also, @nowayback, apologies for the mix-up in laying out the Awards - consider me duly chastised (*horrible images.)