GT6 'MY HOME' HUB: Awards time.

  • Thread starter photonrider
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Try this heavy macho car today. Too far to match the alien :crazy::lol:
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Finally enter the 3:14 club 👍
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Had a major improvement (0,001s., the 'Sergei Bubka-method').

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And with that pace of improving I ended up here @photonrider:

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Not a good 'drafting field' but the slowest field I guess, and it seems like third and second places are switched.
L. Zapata wouldn't bother though. And here's another mysterious driver. Makes you doubt the reliabilty of other/all timing results, at least when cars are close to each other.

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OP updated with latest results. One matter to settle:

Had a major improvement (0,001s., the 'Sergei Bubka-method').

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And with that pace of improving I ended up here @photonrider:

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Not a good 'drafting field' but the slowest field I guess, and it seems like third and second places are switched.
L. Zapata wouldn't bother though. And here's another mysterious driver. Makes you doubt the reliabilty of other/all timing results, at least when cars are close to each other.

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This now begs a question; what time do we actually extract out of this?
2nd place as per the scorecard or second place as per the timing?
What does your replay say? Who actually was in second place behind you?

Remember the challenge was the actual amount of time between first and second - so we have to be fair with you. If it was actually Brooks (not Zapata) in second place, then your best time would be 20:645, right?
 
Yes I would say second place per timing, which comes closest to the objective (the margin).
Actually depending on what the problem is with PD on the scorecard: swapping the cars, or the timing results, but we don't know and unfortunately I don't have a replay (and Zapata still claims second place and Brooks is furious).
However when timing results are decisive, in several cases the largest margin is one lap :D :D Btw this floppy second/third thing also occured before (previous page), it's a pretty regular programming fault.
 
............Zapata still claims second place and Brooks is furious.

:lol::lol:

I can't even imagine the drama in pit lane right now. Obviously a lot of pixel-pushing and digital shoving.

Yes I would say second place per timing, which comes closest to the objective (the margin).

I'll put it down as 20:645 then. That's a pretty good time, too. 👍

Actually depending on what the problem is with PD on the scorecard: swapping the cars, or the timing results, but we don't know and unfortunately I don't have a replay.

I have a habit of saving my replays - especially when the leaderboard shows some oddities, or there were some odd moments within the race - this way I can jump into the AI cars during replay and check on what they're doing.
Quite fascinating . . . and a really, really deep rabbithole. :D

However when timing results are decisive, in several cases the largest margin is one lap :D :D Btw this floppy second/third thing also occured before (previous page), it's a pretty regular programming fault.

Yes, it is. We've seen it occur a lot in the various challenges we do - but sometimes there is a logical explanation for the odd way it is recorded at the end of the race.
During the 24 Mins of Daytona Seasonal, for instance, this happened to almost everybody and the lap counter seemed totally off - but WhoosierGirl explained why it worked that way quite well in that thread.
 
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I can't even imagine the drama in pit lane right now. Obviously a lot of pixel-pushing and digital shoving.
I have a habit of saving my replays - especially when the leaderboard shows some oddities, or there were some odd moments within the race - this way I can jump into the AI cars during replay and check on what they're doing.
Quite fascinating . . . and a really, really deep rabbithole.
:D:D

Great advice 👍 Never saved any replays in such cases.. only from memorable achievements (a few) or from misplaced/ugly cars against fancy AI-cars (a lot).

I've read the 24M of Daytona thread (well, not entirely) - awesome event :eek: ... - and good explanation.
 
Broke the 6 min barrier in the process.👍

So technically you did a 5:35ish run... because they add the intro time into the overall race time, which is about 23-24 seconds on its own. I've complained about this in another thread.

Someday I'll be that fast... someday. That's my goal. If I could find a comfy setup and do manual gears, I'd stand a chance, with a lot of practice of course :lol:.

Cheers
 
Decided to throw my hat into the lions den. :P
Broke the 6 min barrier in the process. :D

Some hat; must have been Oddjob's bowler. :P

Astounding time - through traffic, too. :) 👍


I've read the 24M of Daytona thread (well, not entirely) - awesome event :eek: ... - and good explanation.

It was.
What happened to you was similar and I guess may be a good time to explain it as simply as possible to others who don't grasp what is happening.
I like to spell things out sometimes as we are an international community and I am always aware of the constraints of the language for non-native speakers and respect the fact that they can easily misunderstand or get confused.

Let's take a look at what happened to you.

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Brooks should be second according to his time but has been recorded as being third in his placement on the leaderboard.

We must keep this in mind:

There are two 'Recorders'.
One records the position, the other records the time.


Let's look at this diagram:


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Now in the above picture the Stratos (you) are about the cross the finish line - the grey line with the little man in red standing by.
Brooks in the Focus and Zapata in the S2000 (I couldn't find a GTO :embarrassed: ) follow with Brooks clearly in the lead.

In the frame below the Stratos has crossed the Finish line and the first Recorder (little red man) registers your position as 1st.

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Now the Stratos is heading towards the second Recorder (the little yellow man).
This guy registers the results as at the end of the race in terms of 'positions' (not time lapsed at the end of the sector or lap.)

This is the amount of time that passes between you crossing the finish line and the technical end of the race for the CPU.
This is the area between the grey line and the yellow line.

So, below, we can see that Brooks crosses the finish line second, and according to his time taken to finish the race is also pegged as second by the first Recorder.
Zapata follows hot on his heels for third place - according to the timings.

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But then Zapata is pissed - so he keeps going like a maniac; he probably wants to ram the Stratos. :lol:

Brooks came in second and is taking it easy. Zapata flies past him before the second Recorder is reached:

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When they pass the second Recorder, in the pic below, the little man registers Zapata's position as second - since for the yellow man (who seems to be in a parallel reality that exists in a time-warped future) Zapata is in second position, never mind what time Zapata checked in when he passed the first Recorder.

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So the yellow man raises the leaderboard (with the first Recorder's timings attached) as showing that Zapata passed him second and Brooks passed him third - which as far as he was concerned is entirely true.
Perceived reality is directly proportional to the belief applied. ;)


In a long lap there are many of these little red and yellow men. Metaphorically speaking, of course. :mischievous:







 
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Nice and clean explanation there photon. Thank you. :cheers:

BTW - you don't drive an automatic Mercedes-sort of car in real life do you?
:dopey:
I'll explain later.

By the way, where did this come from? :lol: It is correct in some aspects, I do drive an european car but that's about it. I have a diesel Volvo with manual gears. I HATE auto gears IRL.
 
@photonrider that's amazing!! :cheers: The little red en yellow men.. :bowdown: :D
Thanks.

Nice and clean explanation there photon. Thank you. :cheers:

My pleasure, guys. :) :cheers:

By the way, where did this come from? :lol: It is correct in some aspects, I do drive an european car but that's about it. I have a diesel Volvo with manual gears. I HATE auto gears IRL.

Bingo. I was not too far off the mark, then - I merely underestimated how smart you were. :lol:

Just wrapping up a tiring work week - so hope to spend more time at the console and computer this weekend on more recreational activities. ;) I will explain in detail then - suffice to say I have been working on the theory that the AI in the game reflects the player - as well the B-Spec driver given to the player also is affected by the player.

In effect - fast players get fast AI and will eventually have a fast B-Spec driver - even if we leave the B-Spec driver to go it alone; the Tsukuba Tests brought that home forcefully.
A slow player will have a slow B-Spec driver.
If a slow player and a fast player give their bots the same test and leave the drivers alone, the fast player's B-Spec driver will be faster. Again the Tsukuba Tests showed that.

In addition - the B-Spec drivers will opt for certain settings as being better than others, and again this will reflect the player's personal choice of settings.

From looking at the readouts that we did after the Tsukuba tests I came to the conclusion that you are the type of driver that would be driving a heavy/powerful Euro IRL - A Merc came to mind right away - should have kicked it up a notch and thought of a diesel Volvo. :lol:
What confused me was the 'auto' part of the style - and then I realised that you play with a controller - and this is also then influencing your driving style.
If you were using a wheel and pedals to play the game you may be unbeatable playing manual when it comes to powerful heavy machines that deliver torque.
JMHO. :lol:
 
Good observations. I've also had a gut feeling that the AI learns from my driving and choices. All the tests and races only seem to back this up.

RWD is my absolute favorite ingame. And honestly, if I didn't need to have a rational car IRL, I would happily donate one of my fingers for a BMW M3. So you might have been on to something. :lol:
 
Good observations. I've also had a gut feeling that the AI learns from my driving and choices. All the tests and races only seem to back this up.

Much appreciation to you and all the other guys in here who help test all this and help us get a better grasp of the game.
For those of us who have played this series consistently from the beginning every new version brings not only something new but the gameplay is enhanced by our experiences of the older versions.
By the time we are done with GT6, maybe a year and half or so from now we will have learned so much that will take us to a higher level of consciousness with the next version.
GT5 was a quantum leap from GT4 and blew us away with what was possible, making it only the more frustrating that we lacked many of the goodies we doted on in GT4, for instance.
GT6 only made us hungry for more.
Meanwhile, as consistent players of the series, come what may, we have immersed ourselves in its culture, and therefore are more open to what is to come, and will enjoy to the fullest when familiar tracks like El Capitan or Seattle come back, or Trading, Remote racing of B-Spec drivers, etc, make an appearence again.
As well, we are increasingly familiar with the way the Artificial Intelligence works in the game.

RWD is my absolute favorite ingame. And honestly, if I didn't need to have a rational car IRL, I would happily donate one of my fingers for a BMW M3. So you might have been on to something. :lol:

Hold on to those fingers - there are many good deals out there. Just keep them crossed.
The M3 would surely be a great 'all-round' car for you. You may never get out of it. :lol:

_______

EDIT:
Leaderboards in the OP updated upto this post.
 
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Never had a chance to try NASCAR 2011 when it came out; while I had played the '09 version I was also busy working with the AI in TDU2 was well as several of the NFS games - all this done with a keen focus on investigating the behaviour and evolution of driving and racing AI.
I don't have the time to do this with all the games available - it would be a phenomenal effort for someone to do this and write an analytical paper on the state of the present AI - but what a great job it would be. :D

We would of course have to have a special AI Sub Forum to bring in such topics under an umbrella - comparisons of AI across the games, analysis of particular AI, intra-game similarities, programmer cheats, possible emergence, etc - but at this point as we have not expanded the site to have consistent activity related to such discussions this thread will have to do.

I skipped NASCAR 2011 when it came out - and still have NFS games unopened - but seeing this at the local TRU for $10.00 decided to pick it up.
Took GT6 out (heresy!) slipped NASCAR in, and wow, I was back in a different world.
Everything from that olde worlde American charm (the kind that Coca Cola salesmen used - Pause. Happiness) to the voice of the spotter in my ear (hilarious - he once asked me: "Can you explain this to me?" after I spun out and sat fuming on the apron) all of it brought home the feeling of NASCAR (and I've been a fan since I could push a HW across the floor.)
But what about the AI?
It's shocking what a comparison can do for one's neurons.
At this point in time - since I've not got into the NASCAR game fully yet for a proper comparison - I can say that the AI in GT6 are vastly more intuitive - more 'conscious' is the best way I can put it - of us as we drive with them in GT6.
Hundreds of tests I've conducted on the GT6 AI show a certain 'twitchiness' about their behaviour when we get close to them to feel 'threatening' enough.
They signal their awarenesss of our positions with that 'twitchiness'.

In the NASCAR game the AI predictably take you out or predicatably ignore you. So far. I'm not sure yet how far they will go since I have just played some Eliminator for a couple of hours.
This is a vast contrast from the AI generally in NFS who seem to be 'super-aware' (probably programmer cheats) and very aggressive and the AI in TDU2 who are zombies but therefore can also be as unpredictable as actual human traffic.
 
@photonrider have you ever tired any of the F1 games by codemasters? I have been moderately impressed with the AI in both of the F1 games I've tried so far (2010 & 2011). 2011 is much better than 2010 and they have their own major issues but it was the best "offline" racing I've experienced.
 
I loves this PD biking simulator more than any biking game until today. Using the first generation Ds3 stick is same as now. Valencia is the only track that isn't available on GT. Still remember racing at El Capitan. Hope PD to make it available/playable on PS3.
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@photonrider Have you ever you tried to get in contact with a GT game developer? :D ;)
Personally I never noticed real developments in the AI-behavior (in the way they learn/adjust to the driving skills, except the adjusting of their speed to the different cars the player drives), so it's interesting to read your findings/analysis.

Got some new times, including a try with the Tesla and the Mustang (still figuring out how and where to gain seconds.... :confused: Nevertheless, great car).

Tesla:
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Mustang:
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Stratos:
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