GT6 News Discussion

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CoolColJ
Stratis is a "small" 19 Square KM island in ARMA 3 for comparison - and is still big! :)

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Others might be disappointed, but to me an island that size would be pretty epic as a coursemaker layout. Running along the coastline, bridges over rivers, up and over the hills and mountains. Into the forest, onto the plains, maybe through some towns, an airfield...I think that would be awesome. Smaller with more attention to detail would be better to me than larger but more bland and with little character.
 
20X20 is still astonishing but dissapointing we may not actually create the tracks by day one.

GT6 from the looks of thinks feels like it needs another 6 month of development.

Thank God there is no more B-spec mandatory events, Hate them alot.
 
Zlork
There are people who believe in 100x100 or 50x50 ?! Seriously ?!

It was unthinkable. 20x20 is more realistic. Then I remember :

>> http://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/news/00_1910783.html
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I also remember Kaz was asked on this matter by Andreas because we thought it was unthinkable, and he said he really did mean 100x100.

Since that is the number that made the news here and in other sites, it will be fun when people see what was delivered was 4% or less.
 
avens
I also remember Kaz was asked on this matter by Andreas because we thought it was unthinkable, and he said he really did mean 100x100.

Since that is the number that made the news here and in other sites, it will be fun when people see what was delivered was 4% or less.
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What would you say was the threshold for a significantly smaller area? I expect that 400 square kilometers (vs. the original "tens of square kilometres") will still feel big enough for randomly generated roads (or GPS data...), and is more than big enough for hand-made circuits, should that be possible. That's the point, it's a gameplay utility, not a bragging right - how much would the gameplay be improved by going from 20x20 to 100x100?

If anything, it's likely that 100x100 is "too big" anyway, given none of that is going to have been hand-assembled. Had the reduction been from 20x20 to a "mere" 4x4 km (the same 4% area ratio; √0.04 = 0.2 = 1/5), maybe things would be different, but that's still in line with "tens of square kilometres", and would probably be a good guess for the extents of Ronda / Andalucía in the game.
 
^The currently announced size is more than fine and personally my threshold is quite low, lets say 10x10. With that said, of course I'd like the area to be infinite and with immense detail, freedom and easy of usage.

The problem is Kaz himself said 100x100 twice (10,000km) and now it is 20x20. The disparity is huge and won't be seen with good eyes by most people, certainly not by mainstream sites, though as I said I'm not really affected by it or if it is less (the word "might" used by Kaz suggests it could be more or less area).

What does affect everyone though is that the track creator itself is not confirmed to be ready at release date, with doubts coming from the person in charge. To be honest that would be an unfulfilled promise coming back from before GT5 was released (GT5's is solely a generator, not what was announced).
 
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I don't know the reasons Kaz's software guys told him they could only do 20x20. Maybe it's a sharing issue, maybe it's a memory issue, maybe it just takes too long to fill it with interesting roads. This is what happens when you get up-to-date info on a large, complex project: things change. Perhaps we shouldn't be privy to that in future.

I don't recall (aside from the name, which obviously is a marketing thing) the "creator" being "advertised" (demo'd) as anything but a generator. The "Toscana" footage in the E3 trailer positively screamed proc-gen to me. Granted, it wasn't as flexible as it probably could have been in the end - but we don't know the reasons for that, either.

Something to think about: why does the UI need special attention if it's just another generator? What extra complexity is causing this delay? Clearly something's changed from GT5, otherwise it's surely just a case of repositioning buttons and giving them a new lick of paint, right? Just like the tuning menu, or the track selection screen, etc. But we don't know that, either.


What's just occurred to me is that, perhaps, they're working on the PS4 implementations of certain features alongside the PS3 versions. They worked on GT2 and GT3 simultaneously, too. That would mean they spend time making the feature closer to what they want it to be, by working to the PS4's limitations, then have to start paring it down to work on PS3 somehow. I guess the possibility of patching makes this a "safer" choice, in a way, assuming they get the patching process itself (and the game's code / data structure) into a state that can handle larger changes, because GT5 struggled there.
 
Also no one is having in mind how long it will take to make a track/road with that size of a map.

20 square km is huge...almost as big as GTA V world. Have in mind that. Just Cause 2 is 32 square km.

By just having the size of Nürburgring alone you can make a huge track using the "inner" part of it.

If you play/use Cryengine as I do to make my custom maps and such...2 square km is massive. Imagine 10 times more.

Finally...if we get tools similar to Mod Nation Racers...I can see myself doing a small "regular sized" track in about a week or even more. Having in mind complexity and quality of course.

I also use Outerra Antewrold which is the entire planet Earth at scale 1/1 (real size with real terrain data) and I made Isle of Man and Bathurst a while back. I used Google Maps which are included in the program and just put a road above the exact place where the real one is located...it took me 2 days...but then I quit because it was too much and tools are not there.

100x100...thank god we won´t get that. lol
 
^ We won't be getting anything like Mod Nations, it'll be more generated, and lay out your course on the existing map of Ronda
 
Griffith500
This is what happens when you get up-to-date info on a large, complex project: things change. Perhaps we shouldn't be privy to that in future.
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This. If a feature isn't nailed down, they probably shouldn't be announcing it as a feature. So far we've gone from "tens of km"=>100x100=>50x50=>20x20 and probably not in the game at release.

On the other hand, if they'd just popped it out as an additional feature a few months after release, they'd be hailed for having the best DLC in the world. Then again, they probably would have been lampooned on release for removing the course creator, so swings and roundabouts.

They really need to work on the clarity of their announcements. If something is a "we'd like to include this, but we're not sure we can do it", they need to be clear about it. Like they have with the engine sounds. I hate it, but they've been clear that they're trying something, but they're not sure whether they can accomplish it.
 
Or, that's what happens when your leader is gone for weeks or months at a time, kissing and dry humping Nissans while pretending to be a superstar race car driver. There's two sides to every story ;)


It's a shame to think that most of us are wondering: What in the heck will be available on day one? What am I purchasing for $60? Which features will I have to wait for and for how long?

The most basic questions are made impossible by Kazunori. Maybe we'll get clarity at TGS 2014.
 
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CorvetteConquer
Or, that's what happens when your leader is gone for weeks or months at a time, kissing and dry humping Nissans while pretending to be a superstar race car driver. There's two sides to every story ;) It's a shame to think that most of us are wondering: What in the heck will be available on day one? What am I purchasing for $60? Which features will I have to wait for and for how long? The most basic questions are made impossible by Kazunori. Maybe we'll get clarity at TGS 2014.
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ouch that was venomous. Remind me never to get on your bad side. :).

Maybe he really does (LOVE) cars and doesn't have a girlfriend.
 
Imari
They really need to work on the clarity of their announcements. If something is a "we'd like to include this, but we're not sure we can do it", they need to be clear about it.
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I dunno. I took this:
“I said, ‘that is humungous, that is unbelievable, nobody is believing this on the forums, everybody is having a big discussion about it.’ He [Translator-san] turned to Kazunori, and told him this story – he laughed, and it actually got confirmed. Kazunori said at this point right now, they are not 100% sure that it is going to be 100 by 100 by kilometers, maybe it’s going to be 50 by 50 kilometers, but that’s still humungous as well,” reported Andreas.
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To mean that from the start. Granted, I didn't think it would be something that would possibly miss the game's release so that part does catch me off guard; but it certainly seemed to me that it was always something that may have been scaled back in scope if it needed to be.
 
Griffith500
I can only assume they didn't know it was as uncertain as the sounds.
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Oh, I agree. I doubt they do it intentionally. But eventually it leads to "the little boy who cried wolf" syndrome. Customers just stop listening.

They're also running a danger in having it available post-release. That's a reasonably major feature of GT5 that may not be in GT6 at release. Reviewers will (and rightly should) rip into them for that. GT5 had game modes (ie. rallying) based around the course creator. If GT6 has something similar and the course creator doesn't make it, they'll be cut too.

Edit:
Tornado
To mean that from the start. Granted, I didn't think it would be something that would possibly miss the game's release so that part does catch me off guard; but it certainly seemed to me that it was always something that may have been scaled back in scope if it needed to be.
Click to expand...

It was originally announced as "tens" at Silverstone. It was then announced at 100x100, and it was only through a lucky accident of Andreas, bless his hardworking soul, running into Kaz that we got that additional information that it might be only 50x50. Now we're down to 20x20.

At worst we conclude that none of these numbers are reliable, at best we conclude that this is the number for today but it could change at any time.

Like I said, if it was something that could be scaled back, they needed to announce that. I'm sure it feels cool to see the look on people's faces and the buzz on the internet when you say "the course creator will be 100x100km". But it's hardly less impressive and much more accurate to say "it's going to be really big, and we're trying to get to 100x100km but we're really not sure if we can make it. We do know that we can do at least 10x10km, and we're working from there".
 
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Imari
Oh, I agree. I doubt they do it intentionally. But eventually it leads to "the little boy who cried wolf" syndrome. Customers just stop listening.

They're also running a danger in having it available post-release. That's a reasonably major feature of GT5 that may not be in GT6 at release. Reviewers will (and rightly should) rip into them for that. GT5 had game modes (ie. rallying) based around the course creator. If GT6 has something similar and the course creator doesn't make it, they'll be cut too.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, if they do as Kaz mentions and package a few CC tracks into the disc before shipping it off.

I'll admit though, I agree it'd be a valid criticism point if the entire Course Generator isn't even available from Day 1. That's a backwards step from GT5, and given the amount of time between the two games, I can't think of a reason for it.

Without that feature, nor updated sounds, nor a full-featured livery editor (or at this point, even a basic one), I can't help but wonder exactly how big of a jump GT6, at least v1.00, will be from GT5. New physics, some new cars, a handful of new tracks... and a better single player mode, though really, it sounds more like a return to GT4's form after GT5's flawed one than anything else.

The game felt better last week than I remember GTAcademy feeling, but I'm not sure how well the game will fare in a very, very competitive marketplace if its this incremental of an improvement. I suppose the positive way to look at things though, is that the less time PD is spending wheeling the game around in public domains (like TGS), the more time they could be spending working on it 👍
 
Like the interview mentioned, it seems certain tracks and cars are the 'popular choice'. Making sure you appeal to the masses seems to take a toll on the other unique features most don't bother with much. "Of the 9-10 million copies, who plays with the course maker" seems like the reasoning its not at the forefront of things to have at launch. If you're of the majority, you'll do a-spec or career mode first. Maybe (if included) license tests. So things like those modes and the 'popular choice' cars/tracks need priority. This is my take at least.
 
SlipZtrEm
I'll admit though, I agree it'd be a valid criticism point if the entire Course Generator isn't even available from Day 1. That's a backwards step from GT5, and given the amount of time between the two games, I can't think of a reason for it.

Without that feature, nor updated sounds, nor a full-featured livery editor (or at this point, even a basic one), I can't help but wonder exactly how big of a jump GT6, at least v1.00, will be from GT5. New physics, some new cars, a handful of new tracks... and a better single player mode, though really, it sounds more like a return to GT4's form after GT5's flawed one than anything else.

The game felt better last week than I remember GTAcademy feeling, but I'm not sure how well the game will fare in a very, very competitive marketplace if its this incremental of an improvement. I suppose the positive way to look at things though, is that the less time PD is spending wheeling the game around in public domains (like TGS), the more time they could be spending working on it 👍
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The problem is if the Course Generator/Creator (whatever it ends up being) isn't on the disc you are quite right in saying it's a backward step from GT5 (even if only temporarily) and PD can ill afford that. There are a good number of people who feel they got burnt with GT5 and if GT6 ships with too much 'missing', pending updates you can be sure they will feel they're getting burnt again and the chances are they will not return for GT7 for fear of getting burnt yet a third time. All the new physics, tracks and cars in the world may not make up for the potentially absent updated sounds, livery editor, course generator, improved AI etc...
I have faith that GT6 will come good (eventually) and I'll happily play the 'vanilla' version we get out of the box in the meantime but I fear I may be in the minority. :scared:
 
He said most people play the top cars and tracks. A large portion buy GT and play only a-spec or arcade mode. I know of a few who can't beat GT5's a-spec! Thats not an excuse, but those are the core aspects of any GT game. If track maker is free dlc thats not a problem for me, but I can see those who don't have internet being pissed.
 
Clearly they have bitten off more than they can chew - and yet still they've tried to stuff more into their gob, hence their unrelentingly tense juggling act over what will/won't/could/might make it.

Diagnosis : Chronic digital indigestion

Prognosis : Bloating and joint pain will continue unless excess intake is sensibly reduced resulting in a more productive and responsive system. Left untreated the system will simply regularly overload as simple transmissions of data become unnecessarily cluttered due to intake exceeding optimal functioning limits.

Treatment : Trim excess fat; reduce bloating by not cramming too much into system,especially when a beer gut already droops heavily over the waistline.

Result : Removal of tendency to over indulge produces a slimmer,trimmer system operating at peak performance and peak stamina. Efficient transient information flow is improved and restored, blockages and clots disappear. Overall improvement is both obvious and immediate.

Final Analysis : Cured.
 
Im not reading into the top tracks/top car thing. Online will be different with the new race cars and aero options we'll have. At anyone time the, majority of rooms will feature Nurb and Monza( this might change to Brands Hatch and Mt Panorama :) ). Speaking for myself, I prefer to race offline and wouldnt mind not having a course creator at launch(if this means the core game is good). However, I totally agree many will be unhappy if some portion is not at launch.
 
I for one am not worrying too much about the next instalment. GT6 can be a minor update to GT5 for me, fixing the most glaring issues (for me that is A-Spec and customization) leaving the big features for GT7. Getting them as DLC, well, all the better! For all I know, GT7 will be made much faster due to hardware being easier to program for, so I expect less time juggling with graphics and physics engines (and thus getting a basic game up and running) and more time for comprehensive features!
 
The developing pattern of 'maybe we can patch it in some time after release' is getting a little concerning. Not been much in the way of great news this past couple of weeks especially after TGS bombed.
 
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