GT7 Daily Race Discussion

[RacingGrandpa]

Suggesting something is “baffling” is “moaning”. Yeah, sure. I don’t really see what’s so controversial about thinking one should be able to earn (or lose) the same DR/SR/credits per hour, whether that be via 3 Race Bs or 2 Race Cs.

And yes, Sport mode does need incentivising. Sport mode needs more players.

Edit: to expand further on the DR thing. Everyone wants to be a better driver, be faster, and I’m a firm believer in that to get better at something, whether that be a sport, musical instrument, video game, you need to play with people better than you are. You don’t get better by staying at the same level. In GT DR is used for this purpose, so for some folks—myself included—DR is a huge incentive.

I’m firmly a DR B driver who occasionally pops their head into A only to be slapped down to B again. But 9 or so months ago I was usually hovering around low/mid DR B mostly, lately I’m nearer the top of B much more consistently. Maybe next time I’ll stay a little longer in A, eventually get knocked back to B, and so on.

I want to race with better players in the hope I get better. It’s theoretically quicker for me to do that focusing on Race B. And therein lies the point that is being missed, but I’ll accept I didn’t explain—I just thought people would get where I was coming from.

The races are AFAIK sorted by SR first then DR. I get where you are coming from but I think that if you want to get better you should focus on C, even if your DR can theoretically go up faster in B.
Because the most important thing to learn to get better isn't speed or pure pace, it's race craft, the illusive knowledge of how to react, foresee and adapt to the people around you. And that's much better taught in longer races where mistakes are easier corrected and mend. There's also a much bigger chance of racing close to other drivers without the desperation of sprint races heightening the stakes.

The even better place to learn this is in league races, where you know and trust the people around you. You learn to read the "body language" of the cars around you.

End of "Wall of text", onto something else.
I saw a brief discussion about getting better here the other day where someone said with all the resources available here anyone could get to A.
I don't want to start another round of that but want to state my own opinion of this.
Yes, you can. If you apply a certain mindset to it and consider it the goal of your gaming.
Run time trials, get faster, learn from guides and get better, get more pace and most important, run QT for half the week before starting to race, and only race if your time is good enough to put you in the top 5 or 4 to start.

For me personally I don't care the least.about my DR, I race for the feel of being up against my fellow men, a battle of wits as much as one of of speed.
When I have the time for work I run maybe 2-3 laps of W, then that's my time for all week usually.
Then I go racing. This means my DR goes up monday-wednesday when the "try-hards" arrive. Then it goes down because now I start in the rear of the field and are not fast enough to make it up to the front.

And that's OK.
But the ratio of bad races because of dirty drivers also goes up. It's not all, bit some of the people that has been honing their speed half the week has no understanding of other people braking earlier or having a different line. These are the same people that will answer "you where slow" when you ask why they pushed you out of the way.
To me these people are the ones that makes me think it's a bad race, the ones who obviously think that only their own idea of how the race should be run counts and that only their own enjoyment of the race matters.

I have absolutely no problems getting beat by people faster than me ( god knows there's many of them) but I have trouble understanding how people can be so devout of empathy that they treat everyone as NPC's.

I think this is the primary reason there's not so many people in sport mode anymore, more than stale race ideas.

End of rant. If you have read this far I am impressed!!

 

[Nebuc72]

I think this is the primary reason there's not so many people in sport mode anymore, more than stale race ideas.

End of rant. If you have read this far I am impressed!!

I think stale races has a bigger role in it than you might think - most people I know of accept that there will be dirty drivers, as it is ultimately casual racing, but definitively aren't interested in racing the same combinations ad nauseum.

I know easily around 10 people that would be more interested in Sport Mode if the combinations reflected the rest of the game rather than being a wannabe ACC, and only a couple of those are concerned about driving standards.
It's a small sample size for sure, but it's definitely the most vocal complaint I see for actively choosing to not participate, whereas dirty driving complaints seem to annoy existing drivers rather than deter them entirely.

 

[GTWolverine]

Unfortunately I doubt we will ever see those cars in C... PD seems to think they belong in A

Including some of the most historically significant racing machines in history, then putting them in the shortest races with literally no participants and grids barely larger than the 2005 US Grand Prix, that pay the least amount of credits despite the cars themselves being among the most expensive in the game...makes total sense.

They used the MP4/4 at the World Finals, but we can't even get any F1 races that affect our DR/SR??

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I think stale races has a bigger role in it than you might think - most people I know of accept that there will be dirty drivers, as it is ultimately casual racing, but definitively aren't interested in racing the same combinations ad nauseum.

I know easily around 10 people that would be more interested in Sport Mode if the combinations reflected the rest of the game rather than being a wannabe ACC, and only a couple of those are concerned about driving standards.
It's a small sample size for sure, but it's definitely the most vocal complaint I see for actively choosing to not participate, whereas dirty driving complaints seem to annoy existing drivers rather than deter them entirely.

I agree on this. One way to partly fix it is letting race A have DR/SR again, it's a failed experiment for sure
Another way is bringing back the awesome road car races we had in GTS, like two different Porsches on the Nordschlefe and so on. Those where amazing. The total focus on GR3 and 4 in B and C is another mistake in my book

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

SR does move more in a longer race, as its lost/gained through your on track actions- not through the end result like DR is.

(unless I misread this and you are agreeing with what they do - but either way the point stands!)

I was agreeing with what they do. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Why are they called daily races if they are weekly?

Totally agree.

I have no evidence but I am convinced that, theoretically, if a single C driver was in a lobby full of A+ drivers and ended up finishing ninth or tenth, said C driver would lose DR. Maybe not much of a loss but I think that should be a gain in DR.

Here's an example. I was DR B in a lobby of DR A/A+ drivers. I started 13, ended 10, and increased my DR (though not by much). If I had been DR C, I suspect it would have been a much bigger gain.

Date​	Week​	DR​	SR​	DR %​	% Diff​	Race​	Car​	Start​	End​	CRB​	FL​	Comment
2023/08/05 15:06	2023-31​	B​	S​	|■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■__| 90.25%	+0.75​	B​	Gr.3 | 911 RSR (991) '17	13​	10​	​	​

 

[GTWolverine]

I think stale races has a bigger role in it than you might think - most people I know of accept that there will be dirty drivers, as it is ultimately casual racing, but definitively aren't interested in racing the same combinations ad nauseum.

I know easily around 10 people that would be more interested in Sport Mode if the combinations reflected the rest of the game rather than being a wannabe ACC, and only a couple of those are concerned about driving standards.
It's a small sample size for sure, but it's definitely the most vocal complaint I see for actively choosing to not participate, whereas dirty driving complaints seem to annoy existing drivers rather than deter them entirely.

This is exactly why I'll disappear from this thread for months on end. With no championship races right now, literally the only time I fire this game up is for the Time Trials or for events created by friends, and once every 2 months or so to do a single Daily Race combo that's interesting for a change...

 

[benjoi84]

I think a big problem with the DR/SR system (amongst many others) is that there isn't a positive-feedback loop for clean and respectful driving. Yes, you can earn SR by staying out of trouble and you can "earn" DR by finishing high up the grid, but you aren't going to be given any prizes for giving a position back, or letting off the throttle when you bump into someone's rear end.

It's such a negative ecosystem. What with the ridiculous track limit penalties (giving someone room in order to stay clean and you edge slightly off limits and boom 0.5s penalty for you!) and literally no ramifications for pushing to pass.

This is after a thoroughly fun week of races at Spa where I feel like I've seen it all, but remained positive. This combo just presents so many examples of what I just mentioned, that I feel like it has focused my vision onto the relatively minor grievances about the game.

It's not about the game, really anyway. It's about the people playing it.

 

[Yard_Sale]

The best deterrent for bad driving this game ever had, was the super sensitive penalty system that we had for a few months back in the GTS days. The slightest bit of contact resulted in a penalty. It sucked when you got an unfair penalty, but at least it sucked equally for everyone.

The positive by product was a lot of clean racing

 

[Mercia]

The best deterrent for bad driving this game ever had, was the super sensitive penalty system that we had for a few months back in the GTS days. The slightest bit of contact resulted in a penalty. It sucked when you got an unfair penalty, but at least it sucked equally for everyone.

The positive by product was a lot of clean racing

It was the same when GT7 launched unfortunately it sparked many complaints and was got rid of the same

 

[Yard_Sale]

It was the same when GT7 launched unfortunately it sparked many complaints and was got rid of the same

Didn’t know that. But honestly, I only got back into sport mode at the start of this last FIA season.

IF….

Some company can crack the code to enable PSVR2 to be used on PC, I can see myself getting a gaming PC and going to Iracing, and just using Gran Turismo for FIA and COTW stuff.

But I can just as easily be swayed not to do it if PD finally decides to give us more SP content

 

[MillerGT]

We can go around the world talking about poor drivers in the same classes as us, I'm guilty for taking someone out who's pushed me out the way poorly and has little race craft but who wants to get into a private lobby tonight for some good racing 😁 I like GT3 & 4 cars hence always on daily races.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Here's an example. I was DR B in a lobby of DR A/A+ drivers. I started 13, ended 10, and increased my DR (though not by much). If I had been DR C, I suspect it would have been a much bigger gain.

Date​	Week​	DR​	SR​	DR %​	% Diff​	Race​	Car​	Start​	End​	CRB​	FL​	Comment
2023/08/05 15:06	2023-31​	B​	S​	|■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■__| 90.25%	+0.75​	B​	Gr.3 | 911 RSR (991) '17	13​	10​	​	​

I think the same as you but Famine says it doesn't work like that and that levels don't affect the points awarded/lost.

But I agree with you and thought or wish it worked that way otherwise it's just grinding top 5 finishes

 

[newmedia_dev]

I am a mild mannered person and have had no previous “run-ins” with any members of this forum. Your recent posts, however, have resulted in me engaging you in a manner that I am not comfortable doing. I will not be doing so again.

I think we some how got off on the wrong foot.

I'm a very chill guy and I apologise unreservedly if you took any issue with my posts. They are not directed at anyone and are merely opinions up for debate and not even controversial.

I think the lack of tone and sentiment on the internet can make things feel a lot more personal than intended.

So I will reiterate, I apologise if you took my posts to be reflected at you (we have never previously interacted and I have no idea who you are) and if my replies were flippant it is because I'm on holiday and just squeezing some forum time in while I queue at the bar.

 

[Voodoovaj]

The idea of matching drivers based on SR generally works well, the only glitch is the weird case where drivers close to promotion find themselves mixed in with the low SR drivers of the DR above them.

Except it doesn't happen. You get A/C in the same room as A+/S

How about grid penalties then. Low SR must start behind Higher SR. Something has to be done, because it screws up the experience for everyone else and makes everyone have to drive at that same level.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but there isn't even a snowball's chance in hell of:

1. PD caring anything about what we discuss here, and even if they did care,
2. Making any of these kinds of changes.

To paraphrase "Trains, Planes and Automobiles", we'd have better luck playing pick up sticks with our butt cheeks than ever seeing these kinds of changes from PD.

But just in case: Come on, PD, make me eat my words. Prove me wrong - I double-dog-dare you!

 

[Mercia]

Reading "something has to be done!" knowing nothing at all will be done

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can change; and wisdom to know the difference."

Or something like that.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I think the same as you but Famine says it doesn't work like that and that levels don't affect the points awarded/lost.

But I agree with you and thought or wish it worked that way otherwise it's just grinding top 5 finishes

That's not what famine said. It itd based on your DR-his DR but decided by the number of DR you both have so you get a lot more for finishing ahead of an A driver if you are a C driver and vice versa

Except it doesn't happen. You get A/C in the same room as A+/S

Because of too few players at that time.

 

[BigSarj]

It was the same when GT7 launched unfortunately it sparked many complaints and was got rid of the same

I can't say I ever played online GT7 when it was that sensitive but I do remember the time(s) GTS was like that. I hated it. But I thought it was quite clean when 'realistic damage' was implemented in GT7. I do wish they brought that back. I don't know why anyone would complain about that, especially when it wasn't so bad unless you careened into a wall at a very high speed.

 

[newmedia_dev]

That's not what famine said. It itd based on your DR-his DR but decided by the number of DR you both have so you get a lot more for finishing ahead of an A driver if you are a C driver and vice versa

Because of too few players at that time.

Ok but as I understand it then, it's basically a fixed point scale based on position.

With 8th being the decider on positive points and they get better the higher you finish.

Quitting is obviously the worst thing because you lose DR at max and SR at Max.

That is not how ELO works though.

When match making happens with ELO the higher ranked player loses more to anyone lower ranked that beats them and it's proportional to the differential in ranked skill level.

How GT works as explained to me is that skill level has nothing to do with it and that a E/C driver beating a whole A+/S lobby only gets the plus 80 points.

It's their system and their game so they can run it the way they want but it essentially creates a grind fest for positions over out performing people (imagine being 6th as a DR B player, 2 A+ behind you that you fend off) that scenario doesn't yield you any better points that being 6th in a D lobby.

It seems weird to me, but PD have a method to their madness.

 

[MillerGT]

I can't say I ever played online GT7 when it was that sensitive but I do remember the time(s) GTS was like that. I hated it. But I thought it was quite clean when 'realistic damage' was implemented in GT7. I do wish they brought that back. I don't know why anyone would complain about that, especially when it wasn't so bad unless you careened into a wall at a very high speed.

Realistic damage sounds like a good idea BUT it's highly irritating when someone wipes you out and for half a lap your car is pulling constantly, for the ones lacking brain cells who will happily leave and DNF after taking you out will ruin our races even more so than the current setup.

 

[Nebuc72]

Ok but as I understand it then, it's basically a fixed point scale based on position.

With 8th being the decider on positive points and they get better the higher you finish.

Quitting is obviously the worst thing because you lose DR at max and SR at Max.

That is not how ELO works though.

When match making happens with ELO the higher ranked player loses more to anyone lower ranked that beats them and it's proportional to the differential in ranked skill level.

How GT works as explained to me is that skill level has nothing to do with it and that a E/C driver beating a whole A+/S lobby only gets the plus 80 points.

It's their system and their game so they can run it the way they want but it essentially creates a grind fest for positions over out performing people (imagine being 6th as a DR B player, 2 A+ behind you that you fend off) that scenario doesn't yield you any better points that being 6th in a D lobby.

It seems weird to me, but PD have a method to their madness.

You're misreading it. The equation Famine sent (80+([Their DR-Your DR]/500) to everyone who beats you.) includes both yours and their DR values.

As a result, if you beat higher rated drivers (eg you are rated 1000 and everyone above you is rated 10,000) you are getting a DR change of ([80 + 9000] / 500) from the drivers you beat. This works out to be a smaller number if the difference in DR between you and the other driver is smaller, if it was only a difference of 100 DR then it'd be [80 + 100] / 500 instead.

Therefore, beating higher ranked drivers gives you a bigger DR adjustment, as the difference between your DR and their DR is a core part of the final value.

 

[newmedia_dev]

You're misreading it. The equation Famine sent (80+([Their DR-Your DR]/500) to everyone who beats you.) includes both yours and their DR values.

As a result, if you beat higher rated drivers (eg you are rated 1000 and everyone above you is rated 10,000) you are getting a DR change of ([80 + 900] / 500) from the drivers you beat. This works out to be a smaller number if the difference in DR between you and the other driver is smaller, if it was only a difference of 100 DR then it'd be [80 + 100] / 500 instead.

Therefore, beating higher ranked drivers gives you a bigger DR adjustment, as the difference between your DR and their DR is a core part of the final value.

Now that makes sense!

 

[Yard_Sale]

I know I’ve contradicted what I’m about to say before…

But the only place I’ve consistently had clean races, is in top split lobbies. Yes, there’s some dirty drivers from a particular country that are always there in the 2-4pm pst slot And there is also a particular WT American player that races from the back that just shoves everyone aside…but for the most part, it’s pretty damn respectful.

I think in part, it’s because the faces in the lobbies don’t change much, and therefore everyone gets used to each other. What’s funny is that when I first started to consistently get placed there about 3 weeks ago, all the A+ drivers would basically treat me like I was a ghost, and ram their way past me. But now that I’ve been there for a bit, things have mellowed out some.

Long FIA races are usually pretty clean too

 

[MrHatss]

Recap of a good day of race B:
Q 6 F4
Q6 F4
Q5 F3

90% good luck: avoided bad guys, good guys flying out of track by themselves and me just standing right by my own at my pace finishing my race
The pity: I'm so bad at setting a good QT, don't know, I just struggle with it.
Another couple of good race and will be back fighting to survive in B

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

I guess pigs do fly. I got a win at Spa!

The things that made this happen:

1. Starting out P2 helped, obviously.
2. P1 must not have been at his PS, because his car didn't move at the start, and caused a major pileup for all the cars behind me.

I'll take it any way I can get it. Had FL until the last lap.

Had a 4 minute lead until the last lap, where I almost completely lost it and decided to be more careful the rest of the lap. Gotta go change my shorts now.

 

[TheNormsk]

Talking of DR, I think I got screwed over by GT. I'm trying to recover my SR, even though I could not explain how it dropped to a C after a mostly clean race (see my other post on that), so I have been taking the approach of not caring where I finish, only that I have clean races. Not that easy as it happens when others still hit you....

This morning, my first race, I was hit turn 6 lap 1 and went off. Not a good start. Finished 13th and was still at C. Next race I was going well in 4th then over steered out at Stavelot (my fault this time) and hit wall so I waited for the entire field to pass before joining in last. I did not hit any cars but because of the wall hit still not CRB but the SR did improve to B. Next two races were 100% clean affairs with a 2nd and a 4th respectively. Disappointingly no SR improvement even with the CRB

Let's talk about the DR. That race I highlighted dropped me 14% points. How is that even possible? No I did not forget to record a race - I record them all and start screen shots of starting and ending grids. The field was all DR B and even if they were all low ranked Bs I would not expect that much drop based on DR difference. Typically a 16th finish would earn a 7% drop as the next one did (and others I've recorded). A 13th, based on other results is usually -3 or -4% (see below) so it makes not sense.

As I appear to start in Q4 in most races, as long as no one hits me lap 1, I can usually go okay as long as I stay on track myself. The 2nd and 4th place finishes were nice with the CRB but it is disappointing how little DR they gave compared to what you lose at the bottom of the back.. Currently my DR is back to where I started the week and my SR is a lot worse. I should have just not raced...

I have to say that I am currently seriously considering trying my hand at iRacing instead, though I am weary of needing a second mortgage for that one!

 

[Cherryturbo]

As someone who is most definitely guilty of the “why me” attitude on occasion, I do feel that sometimes we fail to see the shortcomings of our own performance whilst focussing on being unfairly treated by either/both the game and/or other racers.

Despite contradictory remarks to the the opposite, we all have too much focus on DR / SR ratings. Not so much in general but specifically our own.

Too many people here are championing these ratings as insignia of ability. They are simply a reflection of:

a) How fast you can get from start to finish. (DR)
b) How you managed to do so whilst respecting fellow racers who are trying to do the same. (SR)

Whilst I fully appreciate people wishing to either celebrate their successes or bemoan their failures, do we really need to have pages upon pages of mathematical evidence regurgitated here?

Personally, I don’t care about your ratings. I don’t care that your ratings went up or down. I just want some insight as to general car performance coupled with any driving insights that may assist my endeavours.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the basic understanding that if your DR goes up, it’s because you finished in front of more folks than finished in front of you. likewise if your SR goes down, it is because you have breached acceptable standards. Yes there may be some anomalies and yes you may be the occasional victim of those.

Ratings fixation has ruined Sports Mode for me and, I suspect, others. What about how cool the scenery was or how diverse everyones liveries are? What about the glorious soundtrack of 16 car engines as we all pull away?

Nope, none of that.

Just mathematical details regurgitated in ever finer detail. People so consumed by ratings that alts are now created in order to protect the ratings of main accounts. People wondering wether it’s worth racing if their ratings or statistics don’t improve.

Let’s just get back to what it should be. Fun.

 

[Yard_Sale]

“Fun” means different things to different people.

Food for thought

 

[Cherryturbo]

“Fun” means different things to different people.

Food for thought

You are correct sir.
However, I can only give you my opinion, not theirs.