(GTOR) | [GTTCC-3] Gran Turismo Touring Car Championship S3 - xflow1390 takes back to back titles!Finished

[Ian_83]

was a quick tot up

I suck

I'll remember that.

I was so 🤬 lucky in race 3. If there wasn't such a scrap going on for 2nd place I wouldn't have won that. Because of the scrapping behind I was able to worry about my own race, it was a sheer fluke that I escaped that one.

Despite a few issues yesterday, there is no doubt in my mind that we have a great number of talented drivers here and as I'm technically the n00b I'm so pleased to see that the standards are ok-ish. OK there are a couple of issues happening here and there, but on the whole it's good racing and that's what's important and I'm sure that things will calm down once we all get into the season. 👍

Well done @True-blue-8 for making this happen, it isn't easy and I appreciate the time you're putting into the series. It's a shame that you can't actually host, but lets be honest, your internet doesn't seem quite up to the job at the moment. If @sb360 is happy hosting then I think we've got ourselves a good solution to that.

Incidentally, who are the official stewards? I can't be bothered to trawl through the OP, I'm working today so haven't really got the time.

 

[CptMadBean]

I think Ian would make a good race steward maybe Pam and True also?

 

[Pamellaaa]

Just my views on the last two weeks of racing.

- Volvo does not seem to be affected much by pens. At silverstone got good consistant placing and one win. Motegi got 2 wins and a third?! In race 2.

- vw's were mega at motegi. I saw one cruising down the front straight on like lap two and still had a good result. Then one pitted twice. Would have been top 3 otherwise.

- the cut in power in race 2 silverstone and race 3 motegi was massive, and without a slipstream (which I couldn't keep with power down) then I was left behind.

The cut in power has been done in the fairest way that we can really do with it being a percentage, I think from memory your car was at 254 (not 100% on this) in race 3 so only 1BHP lower than the 9% reduction. That 1BHP was a left over penalty from race 2.

I think the Volvo would have been affected in terms of lap time as much or more than any other car, it just doesn't lose the ability to defend because it still has more power than most even with heavy penalties applied.

Edit: Completely unrelated but @RacingLine and @GT_Vette were using two different colours yesterday, I understand teams need to be racing in the same colour scheme.

 

[RacingLine]

The cut in power has been done in the fairest way that we can really do with it being a percentage, I think from memory your car was at 254 (not 100% on this) in race 3 so only 1BHP lower than the 9% reduction. That 1BHP was a left over penalty from race 2.

I think the Volvo would have been affected in terms of lap time as much or more than any other car, it just doesn't lose the ability to defend because it still has more power than most even with heavy penalties applied.

Edit: Completely unrelated but @RacingLine and @GT_Vette were using two different colours yesterday, I understand teams need to be racing in the same colour scheme.

Who cares about what kind of red it is, Our both cars are red.

 

[RacingLine]

Funny how i did a 29.1 with my first run in the Volvo with a Gearbox that was too short.

This lap was set after 10 minutes of tuning i see a 28.7

Oh and Tyre Wear was normal and grip set to real.

 

[Pamellaaa]

Funny how i did a 29.1 with my first run in the Volvo with a Gearbox that was too short.

This lap was set after 10 minutes of tuning i see a 28.7

Oh and Tyre Wear was normal and grip set to real.

Is that repeatable on other tracks? How does it compare to the Golf around Tsukuba for example?

Edit: Motegi (apart from one section) is heavily focussed on acceleration and braking, mid corner balance isn't that important. I think the Volvo will struggle at Tsukuba, Rome, Laguna etc where the Golf and other better handling cars will do well.

 

[RacingLine]

Is that repeatable on other tracks? How does it compare to the Golf around Tsukuba for example?

Edit: Motegi (apart from one section) is heavily focussed on acceleration and braking, mid corner balance isn't that important. I think the Volvo will struggle at Tsukuba, Rome, Laguna etc where the Golf and other better handling cars will do well.

Lol, there are far more power tracks where this will dominate. I think i proved my point when i go half a second quicker in a car i just got and spent 10 minutes tuning it.

I can make it go even faster in the corners. And the big advantage of always having track position is huge

 

[Pamellaaa]

Lol, there are far more power tracks where this will dominate. I think i proved my point when i go half a second quicker in a car i just got and spent 10 minutes tuning it.

I can make it go even faster in the corners. And the big advantage of always having track position is huge

Not really, Silverstone and Motegi yes, but Monaco, Brands Hatch, Rome and Tsukuba are going to me more car/driver biased. I would say that Deep Forest and Laguna are pretty balanced but even if you count them as power tracks its still 4 of each.

Edit: Volvo will also struggle more than everything else with tyre wear.

 

[RacingLine]

Not really, Silverstone and Motegi yes, but Monaco, Brands Hatch, Rome and Tsukuba are going to me more car/driver biased. I would say that Deep Forest and Laguna are pretty balanced but even if you count them as power tracks its still 4 of each.

Edit: Volvo will also struggle more than everything else with tyre wear.

Exactly Monaco is more driver based, i just did a 42.7 on my 4th lap

It's capable of 32s at Laguna Seca.

This is ridicilous, again much faster than my golf

 

[RacingLine]

I see there are 2 Volvos left, id like one, i'm sure @GT_Vette do aswell.

Car changes are allowed untill the first race yes?

 

[Mikey24]

I may be switching over to the Volvo but I will be testing it first. 👍

 

[RacingLine]

I may be switching over to the Volvo but I will be testing it first. 👍

Good choice

 

[Pamellaaa]

It's capable of 32s at Laguna Seca.

Is that in an online lobby with the right settings?

 

[RacingLine]

Is that in an online lobby with the right settings?

Yes, i'm at 33.2 after 4 laps but with a track tune it can do 32s

 

[Pamellaaa]

See what @True-blue-8 thinks, perhaps the Volvo needs to go down to 300BHP or something.

I think the problem with it is you have to be very very good to get any sort of pace out of it.

 

[RacingLine]

Now when i'm quick in it and wants to change car, it needs respeccing.. This is hilarious

 

[Pamellaaa]

Now when i'm quick in it, it needs respeccing.. This is hilarious

When you are finding it significantly faster around balanced tracks than other cars then maybe it needs respeccing, when it was just @Ian_83 who has pace in it then it could be put down to him being very quick, now you are finding it significantly faster than another car then yes, maybe something needs to change because the whole point is that all the cars should be at the same pace.

It has nothing to do with you being quick in it or not, quite frankly I think you will be quick in just about any car, its about its balance with other cars. As far as I am aware (Could be wrong) @Ian_83 has very similar pace in all the cars he tested, he just chose the Volvo, this wouldn't indicate a change is needed. If you are finding this isn't the case then perhaps this has to be looked at.

 

[RacingLine]

When you are finding it significantly faster around balanced tracks than other cars then maybe it needs respeccing, when it was just @Ian_83 who has pace in it then it could be put down to him being very quick, now you are finding it significantly faster than another car then yes, maybe something needs to change because the whole point is that all the cars should be at the same pace.

It has nothing to do with you being quick in it or not, quite frankly I think you will be quick in just about any car, its about its balance with other cars. As far as I am aware (Could be wrong) @Ian_83 has very similar pace in all the cars he tested, he just chose the Volvo, this wouldn't indicate a change is needed. If you are finding this isn't the case then perhaps this has to be looked at.

If that's the case the golf needs a huge respec, because 0.5 seconds is alot in these cars.

 

[Pamellaaa]

If that's the case the golf needs a huge respec, because 0.5 seconds is alot in these cars.

I haven't tested it at the new spec, personally I found the Golf at the old spec to be significantly slower than my Integra when I did have a quick test of it (around 1 second) at Laguna and I passed that onto @True-blue-8

I think part of the problem is that the Golf is handles very well as standard, this means there is a lot less to gain from getting the tuning right than there is on something like the Volvo which really struggles as standard. Say you could gain 3 seconds by getting the tune spot on in the Volvo and only 1.5 seconds in the Golf.

Because all the balancing was done when the cars had standard suspension and diff settings you are always going to find this problem when people start spending a lot of time on their tunes.

If you have the time maybe pick a track, tune all 8 cars and run a set number of laps and see where you are, post your results and we can see what might need altering after tuning. I believe the most recent set of balancing that True did was at Deep Forest, so if you have the time and are happy to do it I would suggest a different and balanced track.

 

[RacingLine]

I haven't tested it at the new spec, personally I found the Golf at the old spec to be significantly slower than my Integra when I did have a quick test of it (around 1 second) at Laguna and I passed that onto @True-blue-8

I think part of the problem is that the Golf is handles very well as standard, this means there is a lot less to gain from getting the tuning right than there is on something like the Volvo which really struggles as standard. Say you could gain 3 seconds by getting the tune spot on in the Volvo and only 1.5 seconds in the Golf.

Because all the balancing was done when the cars had standard suspension and diff settings you are always going to find this problem when people start spending a lot of time on their tunes.

If you have the time maybe pick a track, tune all 8 cars and run a set number of laps and see where you are, post your results and we can see what might need altering after tuning. I believe the most recent set of balancing that True did was at Deep Forest, so if you have the time and are happy to do it I would suggest a different and balanced track.

Now you see, I expect the cars to be close to equal when i signed up, It's alot to ask as I alone don't have the time to test and fine tune all cars. I agree with what you're saying though Pam

 

[Pamellaaa]

Now you see, I expect the cars to be close to equal when i signed up, It's alot to ask as I alone don't have the time to test and fine tune all cars.

I am not asking you to do that, just saying that it might a more constructive way to make any fine tuning to the balancing. As far as I am concerned I am finding everything fairly close together, the racing seems good and I am relatively happy with how things are personally.

@True-blue-8 spent a lot of time on this and had everything balanced to within about .2 of a second before we started, in my book that is very close and its not possible to account for differences in track or driver so there will always be stronger or weaker cars in the hands of different drivers or on different tracks. It isn't really possible to get cars as balanced as you are expecting, even if you spend the time tuning and balancing them to be within 0.1 of a second around Laguna or wherever what is to say that I won't find one tune 1.5 seconds quicker around the same track based purely on having a different driving style.

Even in the BTCC (which this series is loosely based on) there are often boost changes mid season to maintain parity, IMO the only way to get the level of balance that you are looking for is to ban tuning and have a single make series. There are plenty of series around like that but for me this approach is more fun and will lead to more interesting racing.

 

[Pamellaaa]

Even in the BTCC (which this series is loosely based on) there are often boost changes mid season to maintain parity, IMO the only way to get the level of balance that you are looking for is to ban tuning and have a single make series. There are plenty of series around like that but for me this approach is more fun and will lead to more interesting racing.

Maybe this is a solution, if it becomes apparent that there is a dominant car a minor adjustment is made mid season?

 

[Mikey24]

The very hard thing about speccing cars is that everyone has their own driving style and preferences.

As you said @sb360, True had gotten all of the cars down to within 0.2 of each other. He will be used to all of the cars after the amount of time he's put into it. Then say @RacingLine does the same, there may be a lot maybe less difference in the lap times but maybe one or two cars are considerably faster. Then say @Ian_83 does it too and has a bit more of a difference in lap times and again, one or two cars stand out considerably. This is probably obvious to everyone here, but it will be down to driving style. Maybe True's driving style suits most of the cars, RacingLine's style possibly suits a couple of cars and Ian's suits a different couple of cars.

When it comes to speccing, tuning the cars can also cause a bit of a debate because, say, if we have True, RacingLine and Ian speccing the cars. They will use different tuning techniques which could show massive or tiny differences in lap times. Its similar to speccing cars without tuning them, as @sb360 said, when tuning the cars afterwards every car has a different improvement rate as said before, the Golf could be 1.5 seconds quicker than standard while the Volvo is 3.0 seconds quicker, this would make the cars unbalanced.

I understand that @True-blue-8 has put so much effort in to this season/series but in my honest opinion there is nothing more he can really do. Its now down to the drivers and how they can tune the car to their liking. And if there are massive advantages and/or disadvantages then it is down to driver skill and tuning. Nothing more we can do about it.

 

[CptMadBean]

I can't get anything round Laguna Seca in 32s lol.
But I could match my times in the golf, vovlo I found just a little off my times.

I only did about 10 mins in the golf and it took my C4 about 30 laps and 6 setup later to match it.
That was the golf on 270 bhp, the golf twice was tested for BTCC.
Rolo pulled it out as he could not spec the car, it was to slow or to fast adding weight to it only made it faster.
And you can see what makes it fast with a weight balance of 52/48.
I really don't think me in the c4 will not be able to match the golf at 280bhp.

I think if you want to change car the dead line is Friday, so maybe pm blue on it.

 

[RacingLine]

I know @True-blue-8 has worked very hard to organize this series and speccing the cars, honestly i think we should leave them alone to save everyone involved the extra stress in getting the cars respecced for race 1. As @Mikey24 pointed out about driver skill, tuning differences & driving style preferences

 

[CptMadBean]

The very hard thing about speccing cars is that everyone has their own driving style and preferences.

As you said @sb360, True had gotten all of the cars down to within 0.2 of each other. He will be used to all of the cars after the amount of time he's put into it. Then say @RacingLine does the same, there may be a lot maybe less difference in the lap times but maybe one or two cars are considerably faster. Then say @Ian_83 does it too and has a bit more of a difference in lap times and again, one or two cars stand out considerably. This is probably obvious to everyone here, but it will be down to driving style. Maybe True's driving style suits most of the cars, RacingLine's style possibly suits a couple of cars and Ian's suits a different couple of cars.

When it comes to speccing, tuning the cars can also cause a bit of a debate because, say, if we have True, RacingLine and Ian speccing the cars. They will use different tuning techniques which could show massive or tiny differences in lap times. Its similar to speccing cars without tuning them, as @sb360 said, when tuning the cars afterwards every car has a different improvement rate as said before, the Golf could be 1.5 seconds quicker than standard while the Volvo is 3.0 seconds quicker, this would make the cars unbalanced.

I understand that @True-blue-8 has put so much effort in to this season/series but in my honest opinion there is nothing more he can really do. Its now down to the drivers and how they can tune the car to their liking. And if there are massive advantages and/or disadvantages then it is down to driver skill and tuning. Nothing more we can do about it.

Also very true mikey, some cars will suit drivers styles.
And the golf a very forgiving car, so the c4 but that vovlo for me is not.
In test races with Ian in the vovlo and me in the c4, it seems his power in 3rd to 4th gears I can't match.
Is it that the vovlo got to much power?
Or is it the gearing?
Or is it Ian good at coming out of bends with it?

He always seems to hold me up into turns and I can't find a clean way pass him.

 

[Mikey24]

Also very true mikey, some cars will suit drivers styles.
And the golf a very forgiving car, so the c4 but that vovlo for me is not.
In test races with Ian in the vovlo and me in the c4, it seems his power in 3rd to 4th gears I can't match.
Is it that the vovlo got to much power?
Or is it the gearing?
Or is it Ian good at coming out of bends with it?

As Ian has said, he's perfected that car as he's used it for BTCC which he had won a title in, so he'd already kind of have the perfect tune on it ready to adjust to the power:weight difference whereas most of us have probably never driven the Volvo competitively (correct me if I'm wrong) so we may not have the perfect setup for ages while Ian pulls away.

 

[Pamellaaa]

I agree pretty much, leave it all as it is and if it becomes very clear that there is an obvious problem with one or more cars after tuning then maybe revisit it.

As has been said @Ian_83 has been quick but its not as if he has been pulling huge gaps and winning races from lights to flag in the Volvo.

Edit: As a suggestion for a later series has anyone ever tried setting a standard power level, say 300BHP and then tuning all cars with weight alone to be balanced? some cars probably couldn't get to the right time but I bet you could get enough that would work to form a series. I would be interested to see how well that worked?

 

[CptMadBean]

I agree pretty much, leave it all as it is and if it becomes very clear that there is an obvious problem with one or more cars after tuning then maybe revisit it.

As has been said @Ian_83 has been quick but its not as if he has been pulling huge gaps and winning races from lights to flag in the Volvo.

Yeah think that's best but Ian not going to be happy to see poeple doing 32s in the vovlo.
He can only get them in my draft, but if they can be done Ian will work it out I'm sure.

 

[CptMadBean]

Run what you want mate and change 100 times if you want But after Friday 21:00 choices will be locked in

Found this post for you it's on page 55