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[Wardez]

Yeah I didn't mean it to be ****box derby, more like it's club racing whilst LMP is professional. No doubt there'd be some fast guys carving up in Spec Miata

Yeah this maths stuff is doing my head in. I vote for the simplest formula (mine, totally unbiased) as it offers the greatest rewards for those who finish the race and is deadset easy to chuck into spreadsheets.

Ehh, I can honestly say there's a lot more fast guys racing in slower cars here on GTP due to the more reliable and relatively clean racing than there are guys in the faster cars in GT5. GT5 wasn't designed to be a good race car simulator beyond tin-tops or touring cars. Anything higher than that and GT5 just doesn't feel right. It's especially true in the racing due to GT5's twitchy aspect at high speed and the incredible draft.

Just like an old friend of ours once said:
" If you're not fast with 90hp, 900hp's not gonna help"

Scaling encourages people to show up tho, the more that show up the more points you get. It's designed to ensure larger grids, more competition and more of a need to actually finish the race.

I think that's wishful thinking. People have tried scaling as an incentive before and it doesn't seem to work.

 

[CAM]

In that case, why don't we just do a system of multiples of 16? The winner would get 256 points, all the way down to 16 points for last place in a full lobby. Then, if you have 15 in the room, you take 15/16 of the full room points allotment and that's what you get. Easy, and could be given to any series with any size.

 

[TimberW]

Yeah, I think that's the way to go.

But maybe we shouldn't even bother with the points system.
This may upset some of the series leaders as it would be taking away from their power, which we do still want them to have.
We're here to make things easier, not to take control of everything.

Does anyone else feel that way?

+1, regarding points. I think each racing series have their own way of calculating it. And the host should be able to have the flexibility to choose the number of points for their series.

Every good host would have already and will give their best for their series. Instead of governing them, what is better is to support them.

 

[MitchZ06]

@Wardez - Pretty much why I've stuck to racing GT's.

I think that's wishful thinking. People have tried scaling as an incentive before and it doesn't seem to work.

Yeah you're right there....

 

[CAM]

Disregard my last post, I like waiting better 👍. On to the next subject?

 

[gogatrs]

Disregard my last post, I like waiting better 👍. On to the next subject?

Not quite yet.
Maybe, we could have a couple suggested points systems...
Not unified, but suggested.
Maybe these could be included in the .rar?

 

[CAM]

Yeah, that sounds like the best way to go. Then we would never have to force a system on people, since they will be able to use ours and probably will unless they have a good reason. Why not just include the one I just suggested, Mitch's, and Wardez's? Three sounds like a fair selection.

 

[MitchZ06]

That's actually top shelf thinking gatrs, suggested point systems would atleast give them a choice between thought out point systems.

 

[CAM]

This is actually blowing me away how awesome this could be if we all stay at it. We already have 2 series (R1600's and gatrs'), and we have already got the logistics halfway done .

 

[MitchZ06]

Pretty sweet how it's rolling along. I noticed car homologation is listed in the OP so I'm going to stick this here:

weight / 2 = hp - (total downforce as a single digit percentage)

So for example the Viper ACR:
1257 / 2 = 628.5 - 5% = 597hp

GM Corvette ZR1 - 1221kg/599hp - 0/20
Ferrari F458 - 1232kg/585hp - 10/40
Ford GT - 1203kg/578hp - 0/40
Dodge Viper ACR - 1257kg/597hp - 10/40
Lotus Esprit V8 - 1144kg/561hp - 0/20
Audi R8 4.2 - 1264kg/600hp - 10/40
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 - 1169kg/573hp - 0/20
McLaren F1 - 970kg/444hp - 20/65
Nissan R390 - 1062kg/470hp - 35/80
Jaguar XJ220 - 1362kg/623hp - 20/65

Now that's not exactly a huge amount less but it factors in both weight and downforce to a certain degree. If there's a better formula out there I'm all ears, I'll continue to work on this one though.

Stolen straight from my own post in the ALMS thread, potential GT(something) class regulations.

 

[gogatrs]

👍
Can someone please post the suggested points systems in an organized fashion so that I can simply copy and paste them into the OP please.
I'll work on a short type up of the .rar and an explanation for the points to go in the OP.

 

[CAM]

Yeah, I can't help you guys with homologation haha. But gatrs, if you'd like me to handle some type of public role along with my judging one (announcing new additions to policy, greeting/helping new members, anything like that) I'd love to take a lot of the helping people stress for you so you can focus on the actual racing aspects (my weakness).

 

[JLawrence]

This is actually blowing me away how awesome this could be if we all stay at it. We already have 2 series (R1600's and gatrs'), and we have already got the logistics halfway done .

Three series. You got the VSCS as well.

 

[CAM]

Three series. You got the VSCS as well.

Even better 👍.

 

[MitchZ06]

Trial each of the 3 different points systems in each league?

 

[CAM]

Not a bad idea, Mitch. I'm gonna hit the sack guys, big day tomorrow and had a big day today. Just get back to me about the publicity stuff gatrs, its my strong suit 👍. Night fellas, maybe I'll have a breakthrough idea overnight.

 

[MitchZ06]

Adios.

 

[gogatrs]

Not a bad idea, Mitch. I'm gonna hit the sack guys, big day tomorrow and had a big day today. Just get back to me about the publicity stuff gatrs, its my strong suit 👍. Night fellas, maybe I'll have a breakthrough idea overnight.

I dreamt that I was Bernie last night. haha
You could be in charge of public relations or something like that I guess.
We'll see when the time comes.

And I just had a thought about the start up kit.

You know the "Wizard" applications that they have on PCs?
What if we did something like that instead of .rar...

I'm also off to bed.
This 2 AM stuff is not gonna work well when school starts up again lol.

 

[Wardez]

And oh yeah, I did a full face palm yesterday on my out of work:
I was suggesting gold silver and bronze times for each license test trial when there's absolutely no reason for it. People just need to make a time then they've got it.

 

[MitchZ06]

Er...who's good with computer code?

 

[gogatrs]

And oh yeah, I did a full face palm yesterday on my out of work:
I was suggesting gold silver and bronze times for each license test trial when there's absolutely no reason for it. People just need to make a time then they've got it.

👍

Er...who's good with computer code?

There's gotta be someone that's good with that sort of thing that might want to help...

 

[Wardez]

The subject of suggested or a "universal" points system is touchy. 'cause what did we originally want it for? To keep track of a universal series over arching results leaderboard ryes? Sounds pretty cool right?

So it's either we use one simple system every series uses or we simply scratch the whole thing and simply keep track of wins and podiums.

 

[MitchZ06]

That's a good point and one that's been on my mind. Career points, do we want to keep track of them along with podiums, wins and poles or just keen things simple?

 

[Wardez]

Not sure yet. I'll have to think about it but I might actually be leaning towards not having the points system to track just 'cause I can hear the complaints even now about people having points they don't deserve. Stat padders and such. Could be a mess.

Also about the "wizard": those programs are for offline use. There's nothing anyone could make that works off your desktop that plugs in forum code and it would totally be against the AUP and thusly be exploitable.

Bottom line is that if a potential organizer isn't clever enough to extract a .rar file and copy and paste should they really be running a series any way?

 

[MitchZ06]

That last line, can be a bit harsh but it also ensures a certain level of quality in the series under this associations sanction.

Podiums, Wins, Poles, that's really all that's needed. Points is just saying "my man vegetable is bigger than yours".

 

[somebodysb2]

Universal points system will not work, series like F1 which will be using F1 points system which will differ from something like the TOCA series.

Universal points ≠ Realistic championships

 

[CAM]

Good point. It doesn't really matter anyway, since all we keep up with is wins and championships. I don't even think we need to keep up with poles to start with. It should be as simple as possible to begin with.

 

[JLawrence]

Simple is good. Finishing position is all that matters, and you can keep track of the best of the best so to speak just based on that at the end of a series.

 

[CAM]

Well they need their own points systems, so they can actually keep up with standings, but that isn't our job. It looks like we're just giving three examples and leaving it there.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Got another thought, what about grading tracks? Like Grade 1 tracks are good for F1 (F10, F2007, FGT) and LMPs whilst say a Grade 5 track would only be good for something like Spec Miatas (no offence R1600, just needed an example of low class racing)?

Just because they're slow, doesn't mean they're low class.

I don't think we need a system like this as long as the series organizers use some common sense as to what tracks they use. I for one take my personal car out and run laps around tracks to see if the car feels good around them. If it has long straights (Monza) or not enough character, I skip it.