GTP_Registry Discussion Thread

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First of all, have got to say I am loving being part of the WRS...it's the first time I have done it (only found this site a couple of months ago). Am also loving the first TT...mainly because it's made me realise I don't suck as much as I thought I did (well, that or the car suits me). It has given me great confidence seeing my name on the Leaderboard not in last place and above some Division 3 and 2 people...which leads me onto a question:

I have realised that I may not have given the qualifiers the attention they deserved (I usually get worse the more I try but this TT has shown that is no longer the case) so I may, or may not, be lower than my level is. So, are the handicaps adjusted after every TT or after a certain number? And, if the handicap lowers enough, is promotion done straight away or are there set times?

I'm not bothered either way as I am enjoying it anyway but was just curious. Thanks
 
nursemorph
First of all, have got to say I am loving being part of the WRS...it's the first time I have done it (only found this site a couple of months ago). Am also loving the first TT...mainly because it's made me realise I don't suck as much as I thought I did (well, that or the car suits me). It has given me great confidence seeing my name on the Leaderboard not in last place and above some Division 3 and 2 people...which leads me onto a question:

I have realised that I may not have given the qualifiers the attention they deserved (I usually get worse the more I try but this TT has shown that is no longer the case) so I may, or may not, be lower than my level is. So, are the handicaps adjusted after every TT or after a certain number? And, if the handicap lowers enough, is promotion done straight away or are there set times?

I'm not bothered either way as I am enjoying it anyway but was just curious. Thanks
Click to expand...
Your handicap for each event counts toward your overall handicap. So we do update your handicap periodically, and when it reflects that you should be in the next class or division, we move you up.

We won't be doing any promotions over the first few weeks, we want the qualifier and the initial efforts to have merit. And the qualifier counts more toward your handicap than individual weekly events do.

Once we get past these first few weeks, we expect that we'll be processing submissions and making promotions with greater frequency than in the past. Likely every 1-2 weeks.
 
EDK
Your handicap for each event counts toward your overall handicap. So we do update your handicap periodically, and when it reflects that you should be in the next class or division, we move you up.

We won't be doing any promotions over the first few weeks, we want the qualifier and the initial efforts to have merit. And the qualifier counts more toward your handicap than individual weekly events do.

Once we get past these first few weeks, we expect that we'll be processing submissions and making promotions with greater frequency than in the past. Likely every 1-2 weeks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. As I said, I was just curious..being new to the WRS and all. If I happen to get promoted at some point, that would be good but just seeing my name above others in the TT splits is more than enough for me!

And, thank you for your reply as well Oink..much appreciated 👍
 
Hello all,

This is not just my first post for WRS, but for the whole of GTP. It won't be an epic announcement.

Anyway missed the initial deadline, but I'm champing at the bit to join once my stripes have been earned.

Been a long-term lurker, enjoying the good work mods, stewards and racers are doing here and hope to be an accepted member of the community.

Cheers, tuffers
 
Having run this week's WRC TT before deciding it was definitely not for me, and considering how utterly off the pace I am for my division in that (although only a few hours were devoted to it) I'm utterly perplexed that I managed to qualify where I did (which is broadly inline with where I qualified in GT5).

The current WRS TT is another exhibition of the "infinite understeer" phenomenon that dogged GT5p. The phenomenon whereby the front tires can be sliding and leaving rubber on the track as you understeer, yet more and more steering lock still allows you to to continue to turn. Something which isn't really possible at all.

The Willow component of the qualifier was an example of this and it was just about abusing what I pretty much consider to be glitches in the game's coding because the observed results have nothing in common with real-world driving.

Either a lot of people drove Willow as you would drive a real car (and therefore set slower times because they didn't abuse these errors) or my Brands Hatch time was amazing (which it wasn't because I knowingly left time out there, and obviously the top of Div1 would have been probably the best part of 1-1.5 seconds faster than me even if I had maxed it).

My Willow time must have been low Div 2 standard given the similarity between the way that car behaved and how slow I am in this week's WRS.
 
DrTrouserPlank
Having run this week's WRC TT before deciding it was definitely not for me, and considering how utterly off the pace I am for my division in that (although only a few hours were devoted to it) I'm utterly perplexed that I managed to qualify where I did (which is broadly inline with where I qualified in GT5).

The current WRS TT is another exhibition of the "infinite understeer" phenomenon that dogged GT5p. The phenomenon whereby the front tires can be sliding and leaving rubber on the track as you understeer, yet more and more steering lock still allows you to to continue to turn. Something which isn't really possible at all.

The Willow component of the qualifier was an example of this and it was just about abusing what I pretty much consider to be glitches in the game's coding because the observed results have nothing in common with real-world driving.

Either a lot of people drove Willow as you would drive a real car (and therefore set slower times because they didn't abuse these errors) or my Brands Hatch time was amazing (which it wasn't because I knowingly left time out there, and obviously the top of Div1 would have been probably the best part of 1-1.5 seconds faster than me even if I had maxed it).

My Willow time must have been low Div 2 standard given the similarity between the way that car behaved and how slow I am in this week's WRS.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I dunno. Maybe everyone’s excited and putting a lot of time into the first week’s race. I’m certainly not worried that the “Physics Bug” has scared a bunch of people off. We currently have 105 participants with splits, with the event having been posted for about 4 days.

The board seems to have a good, relative division spread, with D1 holding most of the top, blending to D2, with a few outliers in between, finally blending into a mixture of D3/D4 (The drivers who left the most time out there in the qualifier and have the most to find).

Personally, I don’t drive the FF or AWD cars the way you describe. I set the steering angle and give it the appropriate amount of throttle. A lot more modulation was needed for the C3 tires in the qualifier than for this combo, on R1’s. In this car, I’m dabbing brakes or lifting to make it to apexes on the shorter corners, and using mid corner lift in the sweepers. My T1 is not the fastest up there, but that’s down to a very tricky first turn that mainly is induced oversteer under braking. The trickiest part of this combo to manage, IMO. My second sector is perfectly respectable, and the place where most of the understeer presents. But like I said, I’m not managing it the way you describe.

I’ve not driven FF or AWD cars on track, but I have driven a lot of MR and a little bit of FR. The turn in physics are not that much different from what I’ve experienced in FR cars on track. Understeer will present, you can drive through it, to some extent, but you need to manage it. To this extreme? Maybe not, But I’ve not driven an S1, myself, so I’m not sure how it’s supposed to behave. I do know that I found it fun to push around here, and a lot of people seem to be thinking in the same way.
 
Having driven an AWD car in real life on track, you're both right to an extent. The problem with using the front tires is the heat that's built up... Rendered my front tires basically useless after four or five laps (in real life.) I pulled off track, cooled the tires off, and went back out... Made it like 8 laps and ran faster, smoother laps before the tires started to get too hot again. (Yes, all real life butt-dyno data...)



The problem isn't the physics themselves, but that the heat generated from driving like the top TT-drivers here, is that the tires will overheat within a lap or two, and start to lose grip exponentially... Except not necessarily that quickly on racing tires, but racing tires have a smaller "window," meaning that grip levels tend to be more dramatic "on/off switches" rather than street tires, which normally offer a broader band of lower grip...


Either way, I don't normally over-drive my FF cars, and I try to take a smooth approach. FF and AWD are my specialty drivetrains because I am so nice to the front tires... Except during qualifying and time-trials where I know I need to get a single, good lap and don't care if I shred my front tires in a paper shredder.



To each, their own method to madness.
 
what in sam hill is a registry qualifier? i'm an old dum dum so excuse my ignorance. is this like back in the olden times when racers had to qualify for different classes
 
I submitted a time a few days ago but heard it can take a week or more to make the registry. Is there any way I can be added in time to submit a run this week? Ive already started running this weeks trial but as useful a learning experience as it has been so far, I would like it to count
 
Sorry, but you and 25+ other guys who submitted after the deadline will have to wait until week 2 to start participating.

Yes, the qualifier places you in a division, and you race against your division mates.

We have your submission and you'll be in soon.
 
Gravitron
Sorry, but you and 25+ other guys who submitted after the deadline will have to wait until week 2 to start participating.

Yes, the qualifier places you in a division, and you race against your division mates.

We have your submission and you'll be in soon.
Click to expand...

Poop.
 
DrTrouserPlank
Having run this week's WRC TT before deciding it was definitely not for me, and considering how utterly off the pace I am for my division in that (although only a few hours were devoted to it) I'm utterly perplexed that I managed to qualify where I did (which is broadly inline with where I qualified in GT5).

The current WRS TT is another exhibition of the "infinite understeer" phenomenon that dogged GT5p. The phenomenon whereby the front tires can be sliding and leaving rubber on the track as you understeer, yet more and more steering lock still allows you to to continue to turn. Something which isn't really possible at all.

The Willow component of the qualifier was an example of this and it was just about abusing what I pretty much consider to be glitches in the game's coding because the observed results have nothing in common with real-world driving.

Either a lot of people drove Willow as you would drive a real car (and therefore set slower times because they didn't abuse these errors) or my Brands Hatch time was amazing (which it wasn't because I knowingly left time out there, and obviously the top of Div1 would have been probably the best part of 1-1.5 seconds faster than me even if I had maxed it).

My Willow time must have been low Div 2 standard given the similarity between the way that car behaved and how slow I am in this week's WRS.
Click to expand...

I was struggling initially in the S1, and massively struggled in the Megane too until I worked out what I was doing wrong.

I think there’s a tendency in 4WD & FWD cars to use too much throttle too early (same applies to using high grip tyres up to a point). You think you can do this because the car doesn’t spin when you hit the throttle hard and early like a RWD car would do. And in the case of a 4WD’s, cars seem to have almost endless ‘grip’. However, FWD/RWD/4WD cars will all have a similar level of lateral grip on the same tyres (assuming similar weight and weight distribution) irrespective of their drive train.

So… Don’t confuse traction (acceleration) grip with lateral (cornering) grip.

Sure, you can keep winding lock on to counteract the resulting understeer, but this will only make you slower. The rate of acceleration is inversely proportional to the amount of lock you have applied …. the more lock you apply, the less the car will accelerate and the longer it will take the car to recover from the ever increasing understeer and start reaching its full acceleration potential.

It may not ‘feel’ faster, but feathering the throttle to minimise understeer on turn in and mid corner will lead to faster laps than getting on full throttle earlier and ending up creating more and more understeer, killing your post apex speed (which is the important place to have speed).

Be patient, wait for the corner to unfold before mashing the gas pedal... if you do this in the S1 it has hardly any understeer post the apex :D
 
mistersafeway
I'll have to try that, I'm losing a lot of time in the second sector and it's probably because I'm powersliding the hairpin. Thanks, @Stotty.
Click to expand...

Nowt wrong with a slide at the hairpin (or under brakes in turn 1)... but you want the slide on entry to point the car in to the corner. The right trail braking technique will facilitate this and allow you to get the lock off really quickly - this will prevent any exit sliding that slows your acceleration out of the corner.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

For anyone who needs it....

Suggest you watch this video - it's race between @Twissy and @BanditKarter22 in FWD cars. Watch how good their lines are and how they apply the throttle to avoid inducing understeer. This is really top quality driving... made more impressive as it's in a race and not just a one lap attempt.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-reverse-peugeot-207-gti.291826/#post-9160837
 
Stotty
Don’t confuse traction (acceleration) grip with lateral (cornering) grip.
Click to expand...

Interesting :)

One thing that simulators tend to do in their tyre models is separate forward and side bite (longitudinal and lateral accelerations respectively). A real tyre works along the unity circle (we call it the friction circle) and the combination of side and fore/aft accelerations work themselves out based on slip angles and compound/construction. Our sim world after feels like it uses 2 different models for the combined grip and has a balancing equation to handle the overlap. This was quite evident in GT5 for me when switching between the different sport tires. Softs had lots of side bite compared to hards, but they all had the same forward bite. Then when you went to race hards, the side bite was only a little more than the sport soft, but the forward bite was greatly improved. Basically, it felt more like a friction oval where the sport soft would be wide at the cornering part, but skinnier on acceleration, where race hard would be a similar width in cornering, but much fatter on acceleration. And the true quality of a simulator, in my opinion, is how well the side and fore/aft models interact, so far GT6 has a couple of small glitches here, but for the most part seems a good improvement over GT5.
 
pilmat
Interesting :)

One thing that simulators tend to do in their tyre models is separate forward and side bite (longitudinal and lateral accelerations respectively). A real tyre works along the unity circle (we call it the friction circle) and the combination of side and fore/aft accelerations work themselves out based on slip angles and compound/construction. Our sim world after feels like it uses 2 different models for the combined grip and has a balancing equation to handle the overlap. This was quite evident in GT5 for me when switching between the different sport tires. Softs had lots of side bite compared to hards, but they all had the same forward bite. Then when you went to race hards, the side bite was only a little more than the sport soft, but the forward bite was greatly improved. Basically, it felt more like a friction oval where the sport soft would be wide at the cornering part, but skinnier on acceleration, where race hard would be a similar width in cornering, but much fatter on acceleration. And the true quality of a simulator, in my opinion, is how well the side and fore/aft models interact, so far GT6 has a couple of small glitches here, but for the most part seems a good improvement over GT5.
Click to expand...

👍

Yes, grip (lateral or traction) has a finite total limit, and the more lateral load a tyre is under, the less accelerative force (or braking force) it should be able to transmit… or at least that’s how it should work :lol:

I have no idea how PD built the tyre model, but I always work on the following simple principal…

‘The more steering angle I have applied, the less throttle I will be able to use’

Minimise understeer at the apex (ie; have as little lock applied as possible) and you’ll maximise your exit speed.
 
Grip Circles...if a tyre has grip x to give the sum of any forces applied to that tyre cannot sum to a total greater than x before grip is lost. As Chris says, the more steering angle applied, the less throttle (or brake) can be applied, and conversely, the more throttle (or brake) is applied, the less steering angle can be applied. The grip is described as a circle around an axis, so the the further along one axis you go, the lower you have to go on the other axis to stay within the circle...

gripcircle_transition.jpg
 
On GT6, the tire HUD is useful in this respect. I would like to imagine that when the tires go bright yellow, you are getting to or are at the outer edge of the circle. When they go full on red, you've exceeded the limit and are losing time. This is of course, a generalization. But I think you'll find that if you just crank the wheel and mash the throttle in long sweepers, you are going to make the front tires red, and lose time. ;)
 
:yuck: This is my face driving "The Streets of Willow Springs" in the qualifier. LOL

Actually it's not that bad, especially for a TT quali, but would be a crappy track to race on. That high speed section into the slow left at the end of the lap is a killer. I'd love to watch some videos of some aliens going through there. If this combo was anything other than a FF on hockey pucks, I'd really be struggling with it.

Another hour or two with it and then on to Brands.:gtpflag:
 
pilmat
:yuck: This is my face driving "The Streets of Willow Springs" in the qualifier. LOL
Click to expand...

I read posts before trying the SOW combo myself and thought I'd feel the same. Instead what I felt was an addiction... to this day I'd still be running laps if it weren't for the deadline. :lol: In fact I liked it so much, I couldn't get myself to go back to Brands Hatch and put in more serious effort, and the BH combo is the one I had the most input on as far as getting it included in the qualifier. :lol:

When GT6 is nearing it's end and we close the registry and thus the qualifier, I seriously want to create an online race with the SOW combo. Maybe I'll win because I'll be the only one interested. :sly:
 
Both combos are good book ends to the types of TTs I came to enjoy in the WRS :) One about finesse and the other, equal finesse required, but an ultra-fast "hang on" ride.

Fetchy has my qualifiers. See you guys in a bit when I've been seeded 👍👍👍
 
I found the M3 qualifier handled absolutely perfectly, until those three right handers following Surtees... What happened to the beautiful handling?


Probably why I'm running D2 times (this week's TT) but am in D3 (because I really didn't put much effort into the qualifier...)
 
I was totally unaware that the divisions had been posted. Didn't even know that this thread existed until about an hour ago! Here I've been wondering when the Division announcements would be made! Doh...

I got GT5 in Nov '12, joined GTPlanet in Feb '13, applied to GTP WRS in Mar '13. I qualified D3 Bronze. Almost a year of learning, driving, and having a lot of fun with GT, GTPlanet, and WRS. I was hoping that I'd improve in the GT6 qualifier and all the hard work and practice paid off! I gained a FULL DIVISION RANKING!!! Oh hell yes, D2B!!!!

Sorry, just a little happy. :)

Sark
 

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